/swg/ Star Wars General

Planetary Defense Forces general.

Post about FFG, X-wing, Armada, Legion, WEG D6, Saga/d20, Lego, and anything else Star Wars Related!

Previous: Fantasy Flight Games’ X-Wing and Armada Miniatures Games
>pastebin.com/Wca6HvBB
Fantasy Flight Games’ Star Wars RPG System (Edge of the Empire/Age of Rebellion/Force and Destiny)
>pastebin.com/wCRBdus6
Other FFG Star Wars Tabletop (Imperial Assault, Destiny and the LCG)
>pastebin.com/ZE4gn0yN
FFG Dice App (Works with X-Wing, Armada, the FFG RPG system and Imperial Assault)
>mediafire.com/download/64xy3uy6vepll8v/com.fantasyflightgames.swdice.ver.1.1.4.build.9.apk

Older Star Wars Tabletop (d6, d20/Saga, etc.)
>pastebin.com/wXP0LdyJ
Reference Materials & Misc. Resources
>pastebin.com/AGFFkSin

All Canon Novels and Comics (via /co/)
>mega.nz/#F!kJtCTR7Q!HNUwVc1B8KB2FrD4Twmb7g
The Clone Wars Viewing Guide
>img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1442/36/1442364889994.png
Writefaggotry
>pastebin.com/Un1UhzZ4

Shipfag's hangar
>drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByhAdnTlOKOeQnA4SFByUC1aQWM&usp=sharing
Shipfag's Starship Combat Fixes for EotE/AoR/FaD
>mediafire.com/file/y9w713etmckbs98/Shipfag.JPG
Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, co-op X-Wing campaign
>dockingbay416.com/campaign

Armada MC75 Profundity preview:
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/3/profundity/
Armada Chimaera Imperial Star Destroyer preview:
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/8/chimaera/

Legion AT-ST preview:
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/12/massive-destruction/

How autistic you go with each planet armies and navies?

any news on legion?
it looks really good based on what i have seen so far, but it also looks like the one with the most intricate rules

i was witholding armada to save dosh for legion, i hope i am making the right choice
i really want to play as the rebels

New FFG GM here. I'm looking at running a knight level mixed party game as an introduction one shot based around the fall of the republic. I'll then use the survivors of the one shot as some big wigs in the rebel alliance that they'll make contact with later as their story progresses with their new low level characters.
Y/N?
Has anyone else done anything like this before and have any tips?

Kind of with padawans around the end of O66 and used that as a way of getting them as a group prior to a "time passes" and they're adults in the Empire era.

I dunno if starting out at Knight level as a new GM is a good idea because its appreciably more complicated in terms of keeping track of what players can do and the players themselves figuring out what they can do as well. But if you can plan it so the players know each other from a formative age, under duress or memorable circumstances then it might make for a decent enough way as any so they gel a little better as a group.

I like the redesign, but I can't see what it would improve. It just gives the A-Wing a larger target profile.

If the guns are mirrored on the bottom that thing has quad lasers. The design gives me the impression that in X-Wing it would be an A-Wing with 3 Attack, but no green turns.

Just twin lasers, I did kind of like the sportscar look to it though.

Probably could use a slightly larger cockpit though, it does look pretty squeezy

I was thinking of giving them experienced padawans and a master NPC along side some non-clone officers/entourage for the people who don't want to play force users. They'll be enroute to some sort of diplomatic summit when they'll hear that the Jedi Council have attacked Palpatine and they need to surrender at the space port as enemies of the Empire. They'll land, and prepare to submit to the clones present at the port when the master will sacrifice himself saying to go meet some sort of contact. Then they're on their own and off on the run.

You raise a good point about knights not being suitable for a new GM though, I have no idea what I'm doing other than having read through the beginner box for FaD and listened to some podcasts.

The flyboy/mechanic PC in one of my FFG SW games is going to find himself an old N-1 starfighter to refurbish. Would you guys agree with Speed 5, Handling +1, Shields 1/-/-/1, Armor 2, HT 8, SS 8? Maybe Speed 6 and Shields 1/-/-/0?

So are there still rocket launchers in this version?

I did the 'Gathering' scenario where they where off to find their crystals, that actually ended up pretty tough with 2 of the 5 dying in the process!
Wasn't quite what I planned, did mean to make it very tough but a few bad choices ended up as casualties of the whole experience and required a lot of winging it to bring in new characters later on. Was almost some tears when their masters got killed too, so I figure it was a mixed success there.

If anything you've got to be comfortable in what you're doing, you've got a plan which is a great start though so I reckon it'll work.


Guess, if anything there's a bit more room laterally, a-wings really are for munchkins only

I was thinking of doing a Gathering but I was looking forward to seeing the party do that with their OC characters rather than my premades.
You raise a good point about deaths though, I'll plan a few re-entry points where they can take a new character in case they get themselves killed.

Thanks for the help.

>Guess, if anything there's a bit more room laterally, a-wings really are for munchkins only
What did you mean by this

14th for Armada

Thin your paints

>Playing Ramada with no star pattern tabletop mat

Reeee!!!!

Seriously though glad you got a game in user.

>Rebel flagship is a Nebulon B
Why would one do that when there's a perfectly serviceable MC80 right there, and then give an ISD-II shots on your poorly chosen flagship to boot?

Hell fucking know. Speed 5 let alone 6 is way to good for an old as fighter like the N-1 that wasn't even known for speed.

it's just a random picture from twitter, I have no answers for you

>playing KOTOR2
>be rude to a droid
>get dark side points
What the fuck man?

Droids are people too in Star Wars

btw, your alignment in the Force does not matter. Only your strength does.

Why would you even be a dick towards a droid?
Unless it was G0-T0. Fuck that faggot.

Droids are explicitly not people, although they show every sign of being like people.

I think that maintaining the distinction is important, as is having them adhere to their programming because otherwise they're identical to all other sentients and that's lazy and boring.

Droids are more interesting when they're human-like but also not truly sentient and treated like slaves.

Hath not a droid hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions?
droids are thinking, feeling, beings
they have aspirations, they feel pain and are averse, they have a purpose in life that they fill
they can make friends, be loyal

all of their stuff was programmed instead of born, but they still exhibit every outward sign of being a person
they should be treated like one as well

it is NOT their lot in life to suffer

Nah, droid personality is inherently limited by their programming. Bullying a droid is like bullying a refrigerator.

This. There are thousands of different sentient races in Star Wars. Humans, Near-humans, completely alien races, silicone-based lifeforms, and sentient extragalactic droids. What makes the droids that are native to the galaxy so special? They show the same signs of feelings, memory, identity and desires that organic beings show. Who are you to decide that they are any less valuable?

How rude are we talking here? What exactly did you say?

>droids have no connection to the force, being inorganic
>jedi see them as lesser than organics as a result (below animals or even plants)
>this becomes the defacto cultural norm even in parts of the galaxy where jedi are myths
>jedi naturally side with organics over droids in a civil war

it can make sense if you invent a backstory and erase a few scenes from the prequels

KotOR 1 and 2 both like to play on just how horrific it is that droids are actually fully sentient beings that are subject to what amounts to slavery and random memory wipes if they turn rebellious. Essentially, the game's stance is that they're people too.

>>droids have no connection to the force, being inorganic
>it can make sense if you invent a backstory and erase a few scenes from the prequels
It can only make sense if you remove C3PO and especially R2D2 from the continuity. Those droids are favored by the Force more than even Anakin, Luke, or Rey.

Are you insinuating that luck doesn't exist outside of the Force?

Not in Star Wars it doesn't. And even if it does, R2 and 3PO are always around for important shit going down. In fact, they are the only individuals who played important roles in ALL main-line movies and in other stories as well. There is no way to explain this "coincidence" without the Force (i.e. the plot).

They're not though, unless you're prepared to argue that a Gonk is as much of a person as any other. They just have varying degrees of sophistication which eventually ape or succeed that of a sentient. That doesn't make them people in the sense that it would a lifeform, they're just a very compelling imitation.

Their feelings are real to themselves just as your feelings are real to yourself though. Just because they came after and were modeled by organic species doesn't mean that they're any less sentient.

Gonks are just fifth-degree droids whose AI doesn't exceed the amount necessary for the work that they do. I'd say a gonk is about as sentient and sensitive as a dog.

>expendable machine used as blaster fodder
>feel happiness, sadness, fear, anger
>capable of basic problem solving and logic, can deduce cause and effect
>has self-awareness, often able to realize their low place on the totem pole, can see their purpose, even though said purpose is to get shot at
>have aversion to pain, and negatively reacts to it, able to determine source of pain and either avoid it or shoot at it
>capable of basic team work and empathy, can recognize if other droids or some organic beings are happy or sad, and are capable of moving to assist others without prompting

a lot of the times, the battle droid felt more human than many of the jedi they fought

Maybe the MC80 is the flagship and they didn't mark it, and they're using the flagship token just to differentiate the Nebs?

I've seen new and/or casual players do stuff like that a lot.

I think when you take into consideration the 'luminous beings are we' line, it's easy to see why Droids are not cared for like living beings: the Jedi can actually reach out to the soul of their fellow living beings, and as impressive imitations of life as they may be, droids don't have that, skippy aside. That said, treating droids poorly is still considered wrong to a Jedi in that it is you allowing yourself to be a shitty emotional person, even if you're being wrong to something that's on the same metaphysical level of being as a refrigerator. That droid is still a part of the greater universe and in the force that fills the galaxy, though the force doesn't come from it like it does living beings: they can still have a destiny in the force, like anything in it. That's why Jedi can pick it up with the force like any inanimate object. You should get dark side points if you just decided to get needlessly mad at a refrigerator too in all honesty.

What was the overarching theme or lesson of TLJ?

Let the past die, kill it if you have too.

But isn't that the philosophy of a genocidal villain? That's not where you're supposed to get your morals from. And if that's the central thesis, why did Rey take up the title of Last Jedi and save the ancient texts?

>legends often are very different, or even disappointing, in person
>learn from failure
>let go of the past

>the villain states his ideology
>the protagonist blatantly rejects it
>"guess that makes it the theme of the movie"

Yes, that's why Kylo Ren went so very very well and nothing went badly for him at all that movie when he tried to follow that. Luke spent the entire thing with Kylo Ren basically calling him a fucking moron for that philosophy and saying that Kylo can't do it no matter how hard he tries and he's only made it worse for trying.

How do droids even feel pain? Why build a fighting machine that has pain receptors in the first place if its primary job is to be expendable cannon fodder?

>Kylo keeps shedding his attachments
>He's the Sith bad guy
What was meant by this?

Why bother making the legends be disappointments in a franchise about myth and legend? Why make Han, Luke and Leia all be regressive failures? Isn't this kind of cynical for Star Wars?

If the theme is learning from failure, at what point do the characters learn anything by failing?

But if the theme is letting go of the past, why have Yoda come back, why have Rey be the new Last Jedi, why save the texts? How can you learn from failure if you let go of the past?

>You will make mistakes and they will hurt. Learn from them rather than giving up or trying to avoid them.

Admiral Purple Hair and Poe both make mistakes about the other one, the rebel situation goes horribly and both learn the true measure of the other one/what they need to do in the future. Rey's entire thing is constantly making mistakes; About Luke, About the Force, About Luke again, About Kylo. etc.

Kylo's is notable as he's the one cast member doing everything in his power to avoid learning from his own mistakes and it keeps fucking him up as the same shit happens again.

>Isn't this kind of cynical for Star Wars?

The PT is all about the failure of literally everyone except the bad guy. Star Wars separated itself from a lot of other sci-fi at the time by being high adventure but also kinda grungy. It's not without hope but Star Wars isn't exactly unknown to cynical edges.

I remember there's a quest where you can force a droid to cannibalize itself for parts as an extra quest reward

Can't you fuckers talk about it to /tv/? IF you want to talk about the setting in that time, fine but the movies itself have been talked to death...

Killing your own father isn't exactly what the Jedi had in mind with shedding attachments.

>playing KOTOR 2
>set up pair of potentially evil droids who can lie and harm people
>just let them go
Man...I really don't remember diddly from this game. Far more exciting than my recent KOTOTR playthrough

I don't want to open this can of worms again but that sort of irks me about the ST that C-3PO and R2-D2 are delegated to background roles and barely do anything in the films

Because he's a fucking moron. Luke expressly addresses that in the fight, that killing his father didn't actually do anything to shed his issues with his family and has only made it worse as he's now carrying that weight too.

The thing is, none of these characters ever seem "hurt" by their mistakes. Poe loses his x-wing but they can just build a new one. Rey and Finn don't have families, friends (aside from each other but they don't even speak in this movie), homes or anything to lose.

By this point Luke lost the only home and family he ever knew, his guide and mentor, his self-confidence, his best friend and his hand.

The difference is that someone had to have failed to create the OT, and you're never left with that hopeful RotJ ending. If you could write anything in the world for these characters, why would you write it expressly so that they all failed at what they set out to do and ultimately accomplished nothing? It's whiplash.

>How do droids even feel pain?
its never addressed, but its apparently universal, since enough feel pain to justify droid torture chambers
>Why build a fighting machine that has pain receptors in the first place if its primary job is to be expendable cannon fodder?
its just one of those things they decided was never worth the cost of fixing
they are usually directed via control ship during which they are fearless and never break
and when they are not under the control of a higher guidance, it makes sense to give them more self preservation, so that yuor droids become less likely to die the less control structures you have

also, the most likely "solution" was probably to build more of them

>The thing is, none of these characters ever seem "hurt" by their mistakes.

Poe and the Admiral's mistakes with each other get almost all the escape craft killed and force Luke to intervene and die in order to buy time for them to escape. That's pretty heavily hurt.

Yeah but Poe has no attachment to Luke whatsoever, he never even met Luke. As for the escape craft, those are just unnamed, worthless background extras that can be shed and regrown as the plot demands, they're as facelessly inconsequential as stormtroopers.

How much you wanna bet that none of this ever gets mentioned in Episode IX, and that everyone goes back to worshiping Poe as a Hero and Holdo never gets mentioned again?

> As for the escape craft, those are just unnamed, worthless background extras that can be shed and regrown as the plot demands, they're as facelessly inconsequential as stormtroopers.

So Alderaan doesn't matter because we didn't know almost anyone on it? Because to Poe (The guy making those mistakes), those were real people.

>How autistic you go with each planet armies and navies?
Not at all. Plot determines that.

On that note, the Dantooine arc of my Rebellion-era game is coming to a close in maybe a couple of sessions. They'll be evacuating key Rebels to bring them to the mobile shipyard they captured and relocated into Wild Space.

My plan for this is a relatively simple complication: Imperial Stormcommandos are there and seeing the Rebels leaving move to intervene. So a ground combat sequence as they protect the techs who are moving the equipment and getting into the life support containers they'll be transported in. Followed by a blockade run as they have to get past the ISD Implacable and a small support fleet.

They'll have Green Squadron as support (again), although only nine operational X-Wings.

My plan after that sequence and the delivery of the key Rebel personnel to their shipyard was they head for the rally point for Scarif. Their primary job in the Alliance is logistical support, so basically being a weapon refit platform during the battle of Scarif.

Scarif is going to be brutal and claim a lot of Rebel resources, so I figured the natural course of action for them afterward would be "procurement." Their GR-105 is heavily armored and armed at this point and the only difference between it and a light frigate is no fighter complement and about 80k tons of cargo capacity.

I know I want to run them as a Q-ship a few times, but I also think they'll run as support to a starfighter squadron on hit-and-fade at times.

I want to do a heist episode as well.

So I'm looking for ideas. They're homebased near the Prefsbelt Sector thanks to the shipyard and the "non-screen" periods involve transporting supplies to that shipyard.

...so it's not a mistake because while it got 90% of the remaining rebellion killed it doesn't actually count?

Battle droids don't feel pain, but they do have survival programming. Which, as implied, is a really odd thing to give to cannon fodder.

>How much you wanna bet that none of this ever gets mentioned in Episode IX, and that everyone goes back to worshiping Poe as a Hero and Holdo never gets mentioned again?
Sucker's bet. We also know DJ will never make another appearance or get a mention.

These were awful cameo insertion characters and the fan reaction to them seems to have been unanimously bad.

Except just yesterday there were a shitload of people complaining that Alderaan lacked narrative weight for just that reason.

>the fan reaction to them seems to have been unanimously bad.

Considering the watcher ratings of TLJ 'unanimously' seems generous to describe anything about that movie.

>Considering the watcher ratings of TLJ 'unanimously' seems generous to describe anything about that movie.
Do we allow bots to dictate our opinions now?

Nth for Armada.

Wait, which side are you arguing the bots were on? As far as I can tell, people are disagreeing about it rather than either side being bots.

The difference is Leia at least acts like she cares in the moment. Poe is back to MUH DROID and "follow the crystal critters" in an hour. It's about the context the audience is exposed to. I'm sure there will be a book about Poe farting at the mass funeral but it wasn't in the movie. Moreover there's a huge structural difference between the character impact you can show within a single two hour movie and what you can show across a pre-planned trilogy.

It's a mistake but it doesn't have a payoff because you never see the character suffer and learn, and you know these mistakes will be overridden in the next movie. They will either flee to the allies they were trying to contact from Crait, or they will do a timeskip and have the Resistance rebuilt.

>Wait, which side are you arguing the bots were on? As far as I can tell, people are disagreeing about it rather than either side being bots.
Does it matter? You've injected enough uncertainty into the data to assure you're not going to be able to derive any good analysis from it.

While it may not make sense on a meta level, upon my first viewing of the film I didn't think the idea was that Holdo did anything wrong. In fact I think the message was "Have confidence/faith in your leaders."

Poe, Rose, and Finn's inability to trust that Holdo did indeed have a plan led them to act rashly and led to the debacles on Canto Bight and the Supremacy, which then led to 90% of the Resistance being destroyed.

The problem is that we've analyzed it to hell and back, and rationally speaking Holdo's actions and her hostility to Poe (undermining his confidence in her) were about equally as disastrous as Poe's rash actions. Nevertheless it's not the intent of the film(maker)

it wouldn't surprise me now that IX opens with Finn, Rose, and Poe as janitors, having been heavily demoted to punish them for their actions in TLJ

Then how are you saying it's unanimous?

Nine x-wing vs an ISD plus his escorts? Poor greens, what other forces do you players have?
Also the GR-105 is a massive space ship (if google gave the right image), seems you players have done well to comand such a beauty, really like the idea of mobile shipyards for the rebels, makes sense and is something your players will want to protect, sounds like a fun campaign.
Ideas, well nothing fancy, Pirates want to steal the shipyard, an Inquisitor and his merry band of edgy acolites is send to destroy it, a bunch of very old fighting ships in dire need of repairs and maintenence is send to the players shipyard, the crews are spirited but with abismal training (doesn't help the majority of people isn't even of hte same planet, or species, so miscomunication is a given), perhaps the one in charge of the mobile shipyard get a whiff about them, and wants to get the fuck out of there before those "allies" get here and consume loads of resources than the local cell can barely afford.

What evidence do you have that bots are involved? Who do you think is controlling these alleged bots and what do you think their motivation is?

>Then how are you saying it's unanimous?
The data I can verify, i.e. online forums and people I communicate directly with, indicates Holdo and DJ weren't just unpopular, they're actively hated.

Just because one dataset is spoiled doesn't mean they all are, user.

Analysis 201.

>Battle droids don't feel pain
they usually scream in pain and yell whenever they get sliced
>Which, as implied, is a really odd thing to give to cannon fodde
they turn into robotic tyranids when under the control of a control structure like a control ship, ignorign all damage and pain as they march towards their enemies
but when they are just hanging around and not running straight at the enemy, they often display typical human emotions and a fear of pain

the given reason is that it was a side-effect of upgrading their intelligence, that they never bothered solving

And those I've encountered and spoke with have been rather divided on the subject.

>Nine x-wing vs an ISD plus his escorts? Poor greens, what other forces do you players have?
Yeah they're getting worked pretty hard. But it's a screening action, not a full engagement.

The GR-105 isn't a canon or even non-canon ship. It's a scaled up GR-75, which is the standard Alliance cargo hauler.

>Pirates want to steal the shipyard
I'm sure that's the case, but it's protected by a Nebulon-B and two corvettes and is slowly acquiring Alliance starfighters to replace the TIEs it currently has aboard. Plus the shipyard itself has turbolaser and cannon batteries.

>an Inquisitor
They encountered one as they captured the shipyard who will be making future appearances I'm sure.

>a bunch of very old fighting ships in dire need of repairs and maintenence
That's situation normal for this place now that it's operational. The Commodore is an efficient old Duros who used to run one of the orbital shipyards at Duros.

I have been establishing the idea that you can't really trust even other Rebels, so I can see a potential betrayal of the shipyard being worth doing. But it's mobile, so they'll just move deeper into Wild Space.

Same, but the opinion seems to be more in the not good side. No one I know loves it, there are plenty than think it was okay,but while, for example, my smaller sister liked TFA (she never finished another SW movie), she slept in TLJ, and she is an adult. The best I got, personally, is than it's a good movies to burn a few hours.
But we should stop to talk about the MOVIE, here, in Veeky Forums, again it derails the thread, and it was nearly a month ago. Talking about the setting is fine, I would like to hear about people to make games in the ST setting (to steal any diamond), but we have got the same conversation a thousand times already, I'm a little shocked we still didn 't get a milkies poster, the rest of the cliches have panned already.

>Same, but the opinion seems to be more in the not good side. No one I know loves it, there are plenty than think it was okay,but while, for example, my smaller sister liked TFA (she never finished another SW movie), she slept in TLJ, and she is an adult. The best I got, personally, is than it's a good movies to burn a few hours.

I got a good number of people who loved the hell out of it (My housemates were two of them). But yeah, likely should stop.

I've got an idea for a Force and Destiny campaign. Wanna know if this sounds fine to do. I want to give the players each a free buy-in to one Edge of the Empire specialization to represent the lives they've been living since Order 66. Would this work? Are the systems balanced enough to mix and match between them?

Seems fine to me.

Yes. The three FFG systems are meant to be cross-compatible.

Do you know who made that design? I really like it. It's the same as the MC75 from EAW: Awakening of the Rebellion, but I could see it work as a flagship if it was just a tad larger.

Basically just giving them 30-40xp. Not going to break anything.

>And those I've encountered and spoke with have been rather divided on the subject.
You're really confused about the difference between data and anecdote.

I can't take your word on this because I have no way of gauging its veracity. First order versus second order information.

Nor would the prior post be able to taken, as that also can't be verified. Which sorta puts it back to square one.

I tought you where using pic related, I think is from the EU. The pic is from the vong at war mod.

That way to run the Rebs is my prefered too, one of the good things from R1 is than they showed more Ruthless, less heroic Rebels, it makes for more fun and nuanced games.
More ideas, dunno, some allied cell nearby tried to start an armed coup, they where lead be the nose tough, an are being squashed. They have rare stockpiles of minerals tough, and, as they see they are losing, they reached for the rebels to get them out of there, in echange of the gjuicy minerals, of course. It could be a good point to introduce an imperial agent than want to enter the local rebellion cell too.
Who, exactly, no but it's from the Yuuzhan Vong, empire at war : Forces of corruption mod, in moddb.com . There are a few more than are very well done, some MonCal specially.

...

That [Lie] around otherwise innocuous statements had me laughing my ass off. Honestly, that little section where you play the droid is the best thing in the game.

Yeah. Those were fantastic.

...

...

People probably wouldn't have thought this if Kylo wasn't a much more relatable and sympathetic character than Rey.

IIRC those droids show up on Nar Shaddaa in the Restored Content Mod

Huh. Someone took Providence freighter from EVE and Star Wars-ified it a bit.

This, they were absolutely central characters in the OT (they're the first important characters we see, and even though 3PO getting destroyed is a running gag, they're extremely important in every movie.

Thanks for saucing me and posting these. I really like them because, for once, you can actually see the weapons, hangar bays, and other equipment on the ships.