/hwg/ - Historical Wargames General

Weren't there some early local militias with flintlocks that basically looked like AWI forces?

See the chap on the far right here; one of the 'Mobile Continentals', an Alabama Militia unit, (later the 5th Alabama Infantry)
They seem to have been basically cosplaying as AWI guys

And here they are in 54mm

And some similar chaps here; the left-hand figure is from the 'Continental Morgan Guards' - Co A, 31st Virginia Militia

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Man, 54mm? What's even the point?

>Not using them as fancy counters for a grand battle game

user please.

In this case specifically it's for collecting
54mm is the classic toy soldier scale as practiced by H.G. Wells etc so it has that retro appeal, and a player base even: littlewarsrevisited.boards.net/

>tfw you'll never be as much of a goofy motherfucker as HG wells, crawling around your floor and inviting other aristocratic men to come play with toy soldiers with you

So, my friend dropped 10mm Anglo Saxons in my lap. What kind of bases am I supposed to use? I don't have a rule set yet, but what size is generally used?

Painting figures can be done for things other than wargaming.

I understand that, but the sculpts don't even really look that great. I suppose it's all the retro toy soldier nutcracker appeal?

Hey anons, I want to build a semi-historically accurate 1944 Eastern front forces for BA, so I wrote up these two lists using what can come in the Build an Army deals. What do you think of them? I tried to have them be balanced against each other.

1944 Soviet Guards, Operation Bagration 1,000 Points

Junior Lieutenant and 1 extra with SMGs, Veteran, 78

Rifle Squad, Green, AT Grenades, 12 Riflemen, Free

Guards Squad, NCO SMG, LMG, 8 Riflemen, 133

Guards Squad, 11 SMG, Panzerfaust, Anti-tank Grenades, 170

3xAnti-Tank Rifle Team, Veteran, 39 (117)

Sniper Team, Veteran, 65

Flamethrower Team, ROKS-2, Veteran, 70

Light Mortar Team, Veteran, 46

GAZ Truck, Regular, 39

T-34/85, Veteran, 282

Total, 1,000

1944 German Heer, Defence of the East 1,000 Points

Leutnant and 1 extra man with Assault Rifles, Veteran, 78

2xHeer Grenadier Squad, 3 Assault Rifles, 1 LMG, 1 Panzerfaust, 4 Riflemen, 140 (280)

Heer Veteran Grenadier Squad, 10 Assault Rifles, 2 Panzerfaust, 190

Medium Machine Gun Team, Regular, 50

Puma Heavy Armored Card, Regular, 160

Panzer IV Ausf H, Schurzen, Regular, 245

Total 998

There's two kinds of 54mm stuff - the old Britain style (like those ACW minis above) which are specifically 'toy soldiers' and really intended for collecting; and the modern plastics used for wargaming

Up the Khyber with the Perrys

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> 378 – General Siyaj K'ak' conquers Tikal, enlarging the domain of King Spearthrower Owl of Teotihuacán.

I know it probably wasn't actually his name and just the glyph associated with him, but damn that's a great name for a king.

It's like those predynastic Pharaohs who are called things like 'Double Falcon' and 'Elephant'

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Neat looking glyph, too

Warmaster basing is probably versatile enough.

Apparently one of the people that helped H. G. Wells develop Little Wars was Jerome K. Jerome. Must've been one hell of a game.

Okay, so... 40mm frontage seems to be the goto for 10mm, but what about depth?

40mm x 15mm, 20mm, or 30mm?

I've got infantry armed with swords/shields and large axes. I also have some mounted infantry with spears and shields.

Other than Warmaster would 40mm generally fit all other 10mm ancient rule sets?

And lastly do you happen to know of a US distributor? I can't find any rectangle bases from any of the usual miniature web stores; I've only found an eBay seller, but that's sort of a last ditch effort.

Sorry for the pestering. Just pumped to get this project going.

Warmaster is 40x20mm

Have you seen coldwargamer.blogspot.com/
Decent Cold War resource too aside from the gaming stuff.

Hey Montana gamer, since you're the most likely person I'll ever play 10mm WW1 with, I base my guys on 3/4" squares FYI.

I've also collected a bunch of 20th century/modern stuff in 1/72 for skirmish and 6mm WW2

>US distributor

For 10mm minis, The Warstore
For bases, Litko

10 man squads for germans in 44, especially on the eastern front are very unlikely i'd say.

Also there are no submachine guns, so if you want accuracy, remove some of the ARs from the 2 grenadier squads and give them some smgs (preferably russian ones)

Puma is also a very game-y choice for an armored car. They were kinda rare to a point where you can exactly find out which division had how many of the like 120 that were build.
For an accurate but generic force i'd use a different armored car.

The veteran assault squad looks good, but on paper 2 of the men should have K98 to be able to fire rifle grenades. (thats what would be historically accurate)

So in short: reduce squad sizes, add smgs, remove/change Puma and maybe add a squad of either Osttruppen or Luftwaffe Felddivision as a squad of inexperienced reinforcements or units from the rear thrown at the front.
Also a Mortar should be a good choice if you can fit it in somehow.

The AT rifles were not in use in 1944. Throw in another 12 dudes with rifles.

Are you sure? I know they stopped being used for actual anti tank work, but I've read stories of them being used more like .50 cal rifles of today.

True, but 3 of them in a generic force is a bit to much. Make it 1 At-rifle team and add 2 different other at-teams if you want all 3 slots. I think you can have 2 man squad with captured panzerfausts or something. That should be more common in 44.

>10mm

My nigga! I base my guys according to warmaster 40x20mm.

Nice! Do you use Warmaster rules too?

I keep wanting to make a Warmaster Ancient army but 1) no one has one here 2) models are an expense I can afford but can't justify right now.

Your gorgeous late Romans are not helping please post more

I downloaded the rulebook but haven't even finished it. But I do intend to use the ruleset in the future if I ever meet someone that wants to play.

Thanks for the compliment. 10mm don't cost much at all but I suppose that depends on what country you live in.

My tiny Romans are from Pendraken Miniatures, I intend to create the army of Constantine during his battles against Maxentius.

Are you 46th of foot user? You post pic-collages in the same way if not.

They look lovely as well!

I'm not 46th of foot user, I've been editing my images like this for a while.

Bloody awesome! I have a back of beyond pdf but its on another computer elsewhere will post it asap

Have you tried using green as a basecoat beneath the grass?

I've considered it. My Cornuti base were the first I ever based for 10mm, I'm much more happy with the clibinarii stand.

New to Napoleonic wargaming and was was thinking of figures. Is 15mm or 25mm better?

Better for what?

Skirmish: 20 or 28mm. Big battles 6 or 10mm

Anyone have any experience with War Game Rules?

>boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9398/war-games-rules-3000-bc-1485-ad

Looks interesting.

Thanks user, orignally I had the Grenadiers with ARs and SMGs, but was a bit over points in my list so I had rewritten it and cut costs. Could prolly swap one of the rifles for an SMG, yeah.

I took the Puma for the list because it’s cool, really. I suppose the same could be said for the hanomag, couldn’t it? Iirc there were very few compared to a regular truck and only a small percentage of divisions actually got them, didn’t they? Might be something else I’m remembering though.

I could have sworn they were though?
Nah, the only AT Team options for Russians are the rifles, dogs, and the ampulet mortar. Oh, and the Tank Hunters squad, too, though the Operation Bagration list only allows AT Rifle team or AT Hunters squads for that part of the list.

>I took the Puma for the list because it’s cool, really.

That statement describes BA in a nutshell.

The book you'll want is called "Encyclopedia Of German Tanks Of World War Two" There's a PDF of it out there, try libgen.io to start with. It gives the number of each vehicle produced and when they entered service so you can have a sense if something is too weirdly rare to show up except in special circumstances. For the SdKfz 251 this book gives 4,650 Ausf A,B,C (combined) and 10,602 Ausf. D produced.

I forget the specifics of organization off the top of my head but early in the war it was something like only 1 platoon (company?) in a battalion (regiment? division?) got halftracks, everyone else was in trucks. Later in the war the number of halftracks would increase but was never 100%.

>Anyone have any experience with War Game Rules?

It's the immediate ancestor of DBM. Written by the same man and playtested by the same group, it plays much the same.

Fielding the weird stuff fine once in a while, it's a problem when every single battle features Sturmtigers and Pumas and whatnot.

My group is filled with grognard autists and none of them have any fun stuff. One of them bought a tiger but said he wouldn't use them because they were too rare for his taste.

>Fielding the weird stuff fine once in a while, it's a problem when every single battle features Sturmtigers and Pumas and whatnot.

Fielding the weird stuff and otherwise going munchkin in the name of "fun" is what BA is all about. The user in question was told that ~120 Pumas were made versus 15,000+ SdKfz 251s and they're still trying to justify their choice instead of simply admitting it was the "rule of cool".

>simply admitting it was the "rule of cool".
>I took the Puma for the list because it’s cool, really.

Hey man at least I admitted it. That’s a cool book, user! I’ll be sure to give it a read.

>Hey man at least I admitted it.

Here's what you wrote:
>>I took the Puma for the list because it’s cool, really. I suppose the same could be said for the hanomag, couldn’t it? Iirc there were very few compared to a regular truck and only a small percentage of divisions actually got them, didn’t they?

You "admitted" choosing the Puma because it was cool and then immediately qualified your admission by suggesting Hanomag's SdKfz 251 was just as rare. user then shot your excuse down with some actual numbers.

BA is meant to be fun first and foremost. BA designed to be more fun than historical. You don't need to justify your choices. You especially don't need to post your army lists to ask if they're "semi-historical". BA itself isn't semi-historical so your "question" was nonsense. Just play BA and have fun. Don't worry about it's historical accuracy because it wasn't designed to have any historical accuracy.

Guys, could we not

>Guys, could we not

As long as people keep posting BA army lists and asking whether they're "historical" or "plausible", we're going to keep getting those answers. It's always the same thing:

>>Hey anons, it this historical?
>>Well, X wasn't used until '44, only a few Y were made, and Z wasn't issued that frequently.
>>B-b-b-b-b-but it's in the book!

BA is a lot of fun. BA wasn't written or researched with even semi-historical accuracy in mind. Just play BA and have fun. There's no need to fret over counting rivets.

Numbers are a bit of a non issue though, like the main reply here said, there were so few pumas you can trace which division had them easily - so if the user with the lists builds their list as one of those divisions it'd be completely historically accurate.

It's like saying a model of the schwerer gustaf is historically inaccurate because there was only one of them.

and honestly pumas aren't even all that good rule wise.

If the user is sincere in his quest to actually try to field a historical list we should help him. It's not impossible within BA, it's just not entirely designed around it.

I didn’t mean it like that, more in a sense that the hanomag was somewhat rare in comparison to

Nevermind it doesn’t even really matter at this point. You guys are all cool though, man.

I wanted to write up lists that could be plausible for a time frame. Nothing like Me262s in 1939, so I stuck to the theater lists in the books and looked up and asked about stuff to see if it was possible for the time period when I was writing the lists. That’s all really. I know Bolt Action certainly isn’t something to play if you want 100% Historical Accuracy, yeah.

Not me, desu I've been neglecting /HWG/ in favour of sports and moving house lately.

But anyways, I’m more using Bolt Action because I like the ruleset and feel like it’s a good Baby’s first historical, so I could build a couple themed armies and play them with my friends, who most certainly wouldn’t do it themselves. Also because it’d be fun to do historicals instead of 40k stuff for once. Way cheaper man.

Would be neat to model them after a division that did have one, yeah.

>If the user is sincere in his quest to actually try to field a historical list we should help him.

While we should help them, for the most part they aren't really sincere. They just want someone to agree with their choices and, when we don't, they'll either make excuses and employ loopholes like the one mentions.

You can look up which units had Pumas if you really want to, but the user in question didn't even know that so few Pumas were built let alone who had them. When informed of the numbers, he then trotted out an excuse involving hanomags without knowing that over 100 times more of them had been made than Pumas.

These questions are more about people wanting their army lists "validated" than any supposed interest in historical accuracy.

>>It's not impossible within BA, it's just not entirely designed around it.

Which is my entirely point. While you can approach historical accuracy with BA, the rules were not written with that in mind. Screw historical accuracy. Just play BA and have fun.

>who had them
The germans, wasn't that correct?
>so few were built
Does that matter? Did no Puma ever reach combat on the eastern front?

>Would be neat to model them after a division that did have one, yeah.
If that's what you want to do, do it. Do historical if you want and do sloppy fun if you want that.

>Did no Puma ever reach combat on the eastern front?
Some did
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_234#Service_history

>Do historical if you want and do sloppy fun if you want that.

Exactly. Just play the game. It's fun, it's popular, it's cheap to buy into. The people who wrote it weren't worried about historical accuracy so why should you?

Cool! Now user can be confident in bringing his Puma into a battle without somebody calling him ahistorical for it!

>going to the effort of tracking down which division was supplied with what in order to recreate a platoon that almost certainly existed in that configuration during that year is a loophole
Damn, you got me! I'm pretty much suggesting some weird war tier shit here.

>Damn, you got me!

No, I just pointed out that you weren't even aware of the manufacturing numbers involved despite claiming your "interest" in putting together a semi-historical army list. You weren't truly interested in historical accuracy. You just wanted a head pat and your list rubber stamped.

If you want to keep claiming you're interested in a semi-historical force, the link posted lists those divisions the Puma served in. Research those divisions and see if the rest of the units on your list could be part of them.

If you can't be bothered to do that, just play the game and have fun. That's what it is designed for after all.

>hanomag was somewhat rare in comparison to
In comparison to what?

Jesus dude, take your head out your arse and cut the condescension. You're coming off as much as a cunt as the people you rail against.

I'm not defending him but how often would the common german infantry man during the summer of 1944 fight alongside a hanomag?

Would depend on the kind of unit they were in.

For regular infantry divisions, it would be pretty damn unlikely.
But if you're in a panzergrenadier division, specifically one of the gepanzerte batallions within it, pretty damn likely.

All depends on the kind of unit you try to model.

You quoted me as a separate user before, no idea how I'm mistaken for the list user.

I do agree that they should've done more research into where the puma was used before asking the thread, but still
>Research those divisions and see if the rest of the units on your list could be part of them.
is what the answer could've been (and to be fair, that first reply was very good overall to bringing more accuracy in, especially with the rifle grenade reminder) this "fuck it who cares, it's bolt action" attitude is useless.

I mean here's a chain of command batrep with a puma, does the ruleset of choice actually change anything? Is it suddenly more historically accurate because CoC is trying to be more so?
toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=1505

I need russian and slavic shield designs, dark age to medieval accepted, if anyone can help that'd be legit

>For regular infantry divisions, it would be pretty damn unlikely.
Probably more likely than fighting alongside a puma, but there's still a chance you might find yourself beside one.
That's what I think the user meant even if he doesn't know the proper manufacturing numbers.

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oh fug. thin your paints lol

Sorry, I mostly meant that as a linguistic challenge. It's poor writing to say things like "in comparison" without defining what you're comparing against. In this instance a 251 is rare in comparison to horses or leg infantry but very common in comparison to king tigers.

/hwg/ RCW campaign:

Ok so I put together the roll20 map and forces, I see a few people have joined, so join at some stage and let me know which faction you want to control and I'll put you in command of them.

Also if one of you wants to GM let me know who that is and I'll put you in charge of the room and re-join as a player

app.roll20.net/join/2928612/y4haQg

I simplified the rules for forces quite a bit, making it more free-form rather than having to choose units.
I'm not 100% sure how we're going to handle diplomacy - I don't know if it will be best done through roll20 - might be best if we just use our emails, although depends if people want to do that or not. We could potentially use disposable emails and just keep the address handy.

Here's the latest of the rules, feel free to edit or add to if you like:
docs.google.com/document/d/1a-vKOmNVikN2LkTm75VMOkp_eZOwHX6tfJBcrynTz1Y/edit?usp=sharing

Henschel>Porsche

Does anybody play any of the DVG Leader games? Any good? Thinking about picking up one or two but not sure. Looking at the B-17 and Sherman ones.

Did some painting for the first time in forever. Too bad Im kinda shit nowadays.

>Veeky Forums rotated the image

for what purpose?

Anyone here interested in setting up an /hwg/ discord server?

What figures are those?

SOMEBODY LINK ME PDFS OF DE BELLIS MAGISTRORUM MILITUM AND ITS COMPANION BOOKS NOW AND NOBODY GETS HURT.

Strips exif data automatically so location info gets removed. Take shots in left rotated landscape (the right handed default) for straight uploading.

Anyway your dudes are nothing special but still neat, reasonable tabletop quality. I'll be in a similar situation when I paint next, and I'd be happy if they came out like that.

Nobody uses the steam group I don't think, though I haven't checked in much since my laptop died.