/swg/ Star Wars General

>>everyone hates the empire
>luke literally wants to join the empire like all of his friends and knowing the rebellion's existence and actions still doesn't dissuade him

Uh

>the empire was even based of the nazis

uhhhhh

Have any of you anons created little pockets of the galaxy, or fluffed out a minor region, to run your campaigns in?

What did you make and why?

Currently creating a region abandoned by the greater galaxy during the GCW/Imperial Civil War, as the aspiring Imperial warlords and New Republic see it as largely insignificant compared to more obviously strategic locations in the war. It is largely backwater worlds content to be left alone, as well as a few planets that were once members of the CIS that managed to escape the Empire's purge; its military forces are led by Mar Tuuk and Sev'rance Tann.

Created it to give the Legends post-RotJ a little more breathing room for the players to do stuff.

...

>the empire was even based of the nazis
>uhhhhh
what more did you want?
everyone greeting each other "heil sheev"?

Rev up those bingo cards, boys.

>You might've missed the part where he wants to bring about absolute order and peace at any cost.

It's the "at any cost" part you should be focused on.

>Or where he wanted to get back at the Jedi for massacreing his order a long time ago.

Yeah because the Sith were themselves such a shining force for good in the GFFA.

>Or where he wanted to overturn all the shitty corruption of the Republic because it was too weak to live.

Never mind he was himself thoroughly corrupt and encouraged corruption where it *suited* him rather than *impeded* him.

>Or how he may or may not have known about the Yuuzhan Vong and wanted to fuck them up.

Doesn't this fall under the "shitty books" category?

>Or how he was generally not a total asshole so long as you did your job and were competent.

Said jobs tended to come in the form of rather terrible things, though.

>You might've missed the part where he wants to bring about absolute order and peace at any cost.
citation needed
>Or where he wanted to get back at the Jedi for massacreing his order a long time ago.
that hasn't changed
>Or where he wanted to overturn all the shitty corruption of the Republic because it was too weak to live.
that hasn't changed
>Or how he may or may not have known about the Yuuzhan Vong and wanted to fuck them up.
late addition, questionable accuracy, and nucanon palps WAS looking for something in the unknown regions
>Or how he was generally not a total asshole so long as you did your job and were competent.
citation needed/hasn't changed
>But yeah, he laughs when he shoots lightning so let's just say he's just evil and likes to be evil because evil.
glad you understand

also it's worth noting that Tarkin was written as a Legends novel so if NuCanon didn't exist, the "empire hate machine lol" would have entered legends continuity

Didn't Wedge join the imperial academy and Luke was surprised to see him at the rebel base in ANH?

>professional wrestling

I feel like there's a story here I missed.

he wanted to join the academy like Biggs
Biggs defected
one can make the argument Luke wanted military training to go join the Rebellion alongside Biggs

>Didn't Wedge join the imperial academy and Luke was surprised to see him at the rebel base in ANH?
its worth noting that the empire must not have treated their men very well if so many were willing to defect to the rebellion

Luke literally says he hates the Empire but the Academy is his best shot at leaving Tatooine.

Well Luke does have that line about hating the Empire too.

Do you smell what the Baron is cooking?

>Rebfags and Impfags shit up another thread over which of their shitty factions is less shitty

Stuff like this wouldn’t happen if we talked about the Confederacy more often.

Holy shit it's the famous Baron Valen Rudor!!

Who is going to pick up FFG’s 30th anniversary of the The Star Wars WEG books?
Ahh back when the Star Wars universe was growing in fantastical ways!

>>pic strongly related

WRONG!

Luke wanted to join the flight academy, and then jump ship to the Rebellion like Biggs did. This is even stated in the movie, dumbass.

The Empire is based on multiple Authoritarian/Totalitarian governments. Its an aggregate of themes.

Their military structure and penchant for pouring ludicrous amounts of resources into superweapons is very Nazi Germany.

The secret police that take people away in the middle of the night, their solution to crush every piece of opposition with overwhelming force, and the threat of shipping people off to well-know gulags like Kessel are all very Soviet Russia.

TIE fighter doctrine as a whole is very Imperial Japan.

The Imperial government's rigid formality and Britishness (right down to being called an Empire) even taps into longstanding American resentment of the British Empire.

The Emperor being a charismatic cult of personality figure who managed to rise to power on a popular tide before turning into a cackling madman is very Mussolini

I've said it before and will say it again, if you really have your heart set on grayer-than-usual conflict in Star Wars between two innately flawed and morally ambiguous forces, the Clone Wars is exactly what you're after.

>literally created as an evil pawn to give a reason for sheev to rise to power
>led by general grievous, because general hitlerballs was sick during graduation
>made and designed a new superweapon, each one more war crime-y than the last
>kills escape pods, uses civilian hostages, routinely uses "no prisoners" tactic

its like you took the empire and replaced veers, piett, and needa with clones of tarkin and motti

Heroes on both sides user

>starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Valen_Rudor

This guy's bio reads like fanfiction. Is this the power of nu-canon?

>You might've missed the part where he wants to bring about absolute order and peace at any cost.
He only ever said that to Vader, who he basically lied to his entire life. Taking Palpatine's word is about the most retarded thing you can do.

>Or where he wanted to get back at the Jedi for massacreing his order a long time ago.
Palps didn't give two shits about the Sith except for the power being one gave him. Also:
>Abloo bloo bloo who were they so mean to my pyshcopathic murder cult

>Or where he wanted to overturn all the shitty corruption of the Republic because it was too weak to live.
All of the corruption in the Republic was outright stated to be the results of centuries of Sith working to destabilize the Republic, not some natural inherent weakness.

>Or how he may or may not have known about the Yuuzhan Vong and wanted to fuck them up.
The Vong were and still are a shitty idea, only matched in shittiness by the attempt to make Palpatine something other than a gloriously hammy evil sonofabitch high on life and the Dark Side.

>Or how he was generally not a total asshole so long as you did your job and were competent.
Saying that "if you're a useful tool, you weren't discarded...immediately" is a measure of Palpatine's goodness shows how far you have to stretch to defend him.

>But yeah, he laughs when he shoots lightning so let's just say he's just evil and likes to be evil because evil.
>clearly enjoys hurting people for the sake of hurting people
>not evil

If something being totalitarian means it's Nazi Germany then you're looking at just about every nation in ancient history, the majority of nations in near-moden history, and several nations contemporarily and in the modern day that are Nazi Germany, including several nations adhering to an ideology that violently despised Nazism.

>Yeah because the Sith were themselves such a shining force for good in the GFFA.
So them being bad means it's cool to genocide them? Ends justify the means and shit? Now we're arguing like the Empire.
>thoroughly corrupt
More of a nepotist. I mean, he wasn't laundering credits to build himself private mansions and yachts like some Republic senators were.
>shitty books category
Depends. NJO is a series containing a lot of shitty books and some alright books.
>rather terrible things
Jar Jar supported him for election and lived a pretty damn good life thereafter. He promotes Veers to general and genuinely compliments him for the creation of the AT-AT. He's pretty chill with the crew of the DS-II.

>>citation needed

>tarkin was written as a legends novel

But finished and published as a new-canon novel long after the buyout.

The true path to galactic peace is Corellia. Only Garm Bel Iblis and Gilad Pellaeon have the stones and integrity to bring peace to the galaxy.

TLTs are probably your safest option, ion bombs or torpedos would probably be good too if you bring enough of them to just ionize them off the board which you could probably do with a couple Y-wings or a rebel bomber ion flinger. Problem with both of those options though is the wookies will definitely outdamage you if events don't align to give you perfect engagements and they'd both be super fucking boring to play.

>Wedge Antilles hops on one transparisteel leg
Fuck you, I lost a character I gave 0 fucks about that way.

Anyway, guy running his players through Dark Empire, there's consternation over replacing their squadron's X-Wings with E-Wings without R7 units to actually use them, and if the players didn't hate Borsk Fey'lya before, they sure as fuck do now.

Worse, it's the power of legends.

Or he witnessed something or was recruited by a rebel spy in the academy? Then again, as said, Luke does mention he's not a fan of the Empire either.

I guess it's one of those situations where it's just your only way out. Like you don't want to go over to Sandpeoplestan, but if it means getting out of Alabamaaine, then it might be your only hope.

Yes Baron Soontir Fel is bad fanfiction!

You can pass off any fanfiction as canon as long as you loudly shout that the previously officially licensed material is fanfiction. Repeatedly.

Case in point

>Heroes on both sides user
well, from a certain point of view grievous, cad bane, and kalani were heroes

This post is a violation of the NAP.

>his only appearances are in Star Wars Rebels, a post sale show

Yup, it's nu-canon trash all right.

>So them being bad means it's cool to genocide them? Ends justify the means and shit? Now we're arguing like the Empire.

That would have more weight if the Sith weren't constantly killing people and never surrendering when confronted.

Jar Jar was forced to become a clown because of that stunt

hail

You're saltier than all of Crait's surface, user.

Rolled 1, 6 = 7 (2d6)

after seeing the snowspeeder in legions front page

i think i really want to play rebels in legion now
but is 33 models really worth nearly 100$?
also, i had visions of doofenshcmirtz face-left-inator when i saw the tow cable

>conflict in Star Wars between two innately flawed and morally ambiguous forces
We already have the Galactic and Imperial Civil Wars, and the Jedi-Sith War, user.

>Palps didn't give two shits about the Sith except for the power being one gave him
Citation needed. In the old canon he was wholly devoted to the Dark side and wanted to both rebuild the Sith Order and bring it to ascend over the galaxy like the old days.
Also:
>genociding and kidnapping are only evil when the guys i dont like do it

>The Vong were and still are a shitty idea, only matched in shittiness by the attempt to make Palpatine something other than a gloriously hammy evil sonofabitch high on life and the Dark Side.

Nice personal opinion. Mine is also a personal opinion.

>>clearly enjoys hurting people for the sake of hurting people

>master of opposing religious order sworn to kill you and who you're sworn to kill comes into your office talking shit
>draws his weapon and attacks you
>fight him to a stalemate
>laugh at you seeming to beat him early on because he's your enemy
>later get attacked by a prick in your own throne room while appearing unarmed
>he then beats the shit out of your bodyguard, calls you an asshole, and mocks you to your face, all while being part of a political movement sworn to bring you down
>get mad and shock him with lightning
>All of this is wholly unforgivably evil
>blow up an entire space station and instantly kill hundreds of thousands of people from all walks of life
>cheer triumphantly and laugh
>threaten an entire race of teddy bears to fight for who they think is a metal god and most of them die
>laugh and cheer and celebrate while playing drums on helmets of dead soldiers
>All of this is justified and morally righteous
mfw

>Crait
Speaking of which, does Crait also have a native population of large and dangerous predatory reptiles? Because that shit could get confusing real fast.

>in ANH they make it pretty clear that everyone from dirt farmers on the edge of the galaxy to the rich nobles of alderaan hate the empire

Considering one of the first things you hear about them doing is getting rid of the senate because people in it were basically in full on revolt against the empire...yeah. Even without the rebel wins, it was likely going to very quickly start splintering.

not really, its just every single example i've seen of this Rebels show points towards it being utterly retarded.

i've never seen the show though.

My take on the Empire discourse: It's really hard to say that the Empire as an entity is bad given how it only takes a change of leadership and a few minor reforms post-war to really turn it into a benevolent force. It's certainly still an aggressively authoritarian government with an exceedingly illiberal attitude, but by and large, it's hard to describe the Empire as a truly "evil empire" but rather "an empire that did evil things for a while". I certainly wouldn't describe Pellaeon's Empire or the Fel Empire as evil, yet are they not the same entity?.

I don't believe in objective good and evil so my hot takes are probably not going to go over that well

>At that point they're trying to portray that the Rebellion has to pretend they're a real government, and what better way to do that than standardize armor?
It was done in the old EU, but they ended up looking more like a cross of stormtroopers and something out of Mass Effect.

>Mine is also a personal opinion.

Then stop presenting it as an objective truth.

How fucking cancerous. Wookies feel like they were a mistake

Not in the EU.

Luke doesn't seem to like either side. That being said, saying everyone in the galaxy hates the Empire universally has no basis in any of the movies, any EU content, or even any NU content, which is pushing the made-for-suffering nazi meme relentlessly.

Which fits Star Wars more imo, even if I personally prefer the aesthetics of pic related.

>yet are they not the same entity?.

Easier to make that argument of the Imperial Remnant under Pellaeon than it is of the Fel Empire, I think.

It stinks. Gimme strap on plates over lightweight suits, with an MA-37 styled blasters, and I'll give you Byss.

You're doing the same thing though.

>All of the corruption in the Republic was outright stated to be the results of centuries of Sith working to destabilize the Republic, not some natural inherent weakness.

youtube.com/watch?v=-rmBDHS3CCo

While Palps and Playdough exacerbated the problems in their brief interactions, the Republic's flaws were all by its own design, mired in Jedi incompetence. It makes no sense to think thousands of years of problems were a Sith thing.
inb4 PALPATINE'S BEHIND IT ALL

post things that trigger /swg/

>saying everyone in the galaxy hates the Empire universally has no basis in any of the movies
>mos eisely, wretched hive of scum and villainy, takes the street partying when the DS2 is destoryed
>coruscant, imperial capital, has people partying and cheering and taking down sheev statues when the emperor dies

For some reason there's a vocal minority that really hates the idea of moral relativism in Star Wars. Just bring up Kreia and watch them swarm.

Yeah, no argument there.

>So them being bad means it's cool to genocide them? Ends justify the means and shit? Now we're arguing like the Empire.

That's like saying we genocided the Nazis. We fought them as long as they fought us, accepted their surrender, imprisoned the ones who committed war crimes, and let the rest go.

It's pretty much the same way with the Sith, only war crimes are pretty much the central tenant of their religion. That means they end up either dying in combat, rotting in jail, or converting to the Light (usually to become Jedi). Getting angry that murderous psychopaths are imprisoned/redeemed/killed in combat is pretty stupid, user.

>mos eisely, wretched hive of scum and villainy, takes the street partying when the DS2 is destoryed
>coruscant, imperial capital, has people partying and cheering and taking down sheev statues when the emperor dies

Special Edition.

Unless you want to accept this too
youtube.com/watch?v=2jzZOgLH4KU

My understanding of Kreia's interpretation of things is that the Force is in actuality just the Story.

Hypercrisis is Real.

Oh! I know that Pokemon!

Its Slowpoke!

Hate the prequels all you like but lucas had direction. Not strictly a plan but direction, as much mocked his his poetry line is, there was a ring of truth, events served the story, in this new trilogy everything is decided by a commit of Disney empire moffs to try and look like they support this hip and cool rebellion, and that has the same effect as when Mr. Burns tried to do recycling

>For some reason there's a vocal minority that really hates the idea of moral relativism in Star Wars
personally, i just enjoy a simple story about good underdogs fighting evil empires

then the "empire was good for the galaxy" guys come along and "kreia should have destroyed everything" guys come along and insist that the bad guys should have been allowed to win

moral greyness has its place, but "villains are the real good guys" probably does not

>For some reason there's a vocal minority that really hates the idea of moral relativism in Star Wars.

Well, it's sorta hard to claim it when literally the first thing we see about the empire is the opening narration calling them evil.

The problem is that Empire never had a chance to exist because Palpatine didn't want anyone else playing with his toy after he died.

>You're doing the same thing though.

Except what I'm saying *is* objectively true. The Empire is evil. It has a handful notable people in it with motives more sympathetic and/or nuanced than the baseline set by its leaders, but first and foremost it was an engine of tyranny, fearmongering, genocide and misery. And even the more sympathetic members of the Imperial forces or bureaucracy rarely actively question what they're doing or wonder if they might be on the wrong side, limiting their nuance.

Halo did have a very nice art style all around.

Soontir "The Rock" Fel?

Well Sith can't even become force ghosts so it's not like they're come and complain if you killed them in battle

I don't see what's wrong with them. They are a pretty cool strategic bomber, as I imagine something more Y-Wing would have issues dealing with stuff like the FO Penis Enbiggener or whatever the dreadnaught was called.

How new are you?

To be fair, was the average armor even worth a crud in Star Wars?

It seems like very little of it actually does anything if you take a direct hit due to how powerful weapons are.

>All of the corruption in the Republic was outright stated to be the results of centuries of Sith working to destabilize the Republic, not some natural inherent weakness.

First off, that was me, not the user you're replying to. Second, this was outright stated in the Plaguis novel, moron.

>Mr. Burns tried to do recycling
What is the meaning of this reference

>26 AA guns
>All dorsal
No starfighter in the galaxy could ever have trouble with the Mandator IV. Even a Pinook could tickle it to death.

"Join us or die" was a motif of both orders. The Jedi didn't accept surrender and let some Sith go, they made a point of killing any and every Sith and Sith supporter that didn't fall into their line. All the kids? Taken to be made into Jedi. All the non-Force soldiers? Killed or imprisoned. All the Sith themselves? Killed unless they turned to the Light side. And no, not just battlefield casualties or cases of no-surrender, which, while they did happen, were not the only cause. The Jedi ultimatum was that you either join us or we will kill you or lock you away until you die. If you surrender and don't want to fight on our side or follow our belief of the Force? Dead. Don't want your kids taken away? Dead. Want to preserve your own customs and religious views? Nah, you're fucking dead kiddo.

And yes, yes, the Sith the did the same thing, sometimes even more harshly, but two wrongs don't make a right. KOTOR's driving point is that both the Jedi and Sith were pricks doing prickish things to advance their own self-centered tunnel vision concepts of how the universe needed to be.

I believe in Gilad Pellaeon

>Except what I'm saying *is* objectively true. The Empire is evil. It has a handful notable people in it with motives more sympathetic and/or nuanced than the baseline set by its leaders, but first and foremost it was an engine of tyranny, fearmongering, genocide and misery. And even the more sympathetic members of the Imperial forces or bureaucracy rarely actively question what they're doing or wonder if they might be on the wrong side, limiting their nuance.

In addition to that, the ones who DO inevitably defect to the Rebels. The only exceptions is the EU post-Endor because Palpatine is gone, and that didn't make the canon jump because no one goes to see a Star Wars movie for fucking moral relativism.

A lot of capital ship weaponry has been scaled down recently. The Raddus only has 12 AA guns too.

I like to think that the Mandator IV was designed as a much smaller siege monitor type of ship, but someone in the FO fucked up the proportions immensely and nu-Kuat decided to just roll with it and slapped the Mandator name on it.

They really do. I think they should have probably had closer to a B-wing dial or lower attack. Sure they don't tend to have very consistent damage due to absence of target locks and lack of focuses if they're reinforcing, but that you still have the capacity of rolling natural 3-4 hit attacks while also having super reliable damage mitigation on a massive health pool, AND that you're able to very consistently make attack attempts due to decent dial and massive firing arc makes them just nuts sometimes. Considering basically their only downside is no k-turn, and aside from Defenders no one really uses those more than once or twice a game anyway, it too often feels like you're not making any sacrifice for your defensiveness.

I guess you can also kinda shit on them with Defenders who can safely flip flop around them, and if you can get face up cards into them those can fuck them pretty bad, but that's shit that applies to most other ships too.

You're going off the newcanon intepretation of it, and I can't stop you if you do or even disagree with you, but that's not what canon I tend to follow, so we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it there.

The opening crawl doesn't decide the nature of the entire universe user. Especially considering Lucas didn't even intend a universe in 1977 and didn't expect 41 years of expanded content to follow it.

What's wrong with opposing opinions? Maybe someone gets something different out of it than you do.

Not so much that it wasn't real, but that it was detached from living things and was uncaring of their affairs, yet guided both the Light and Dark side users into continuous conflict to maintain its own balance.

I mean, they actively mention in the movie itself that it relies heavily on fighter screens for protection (Since it's a siege/anti-capital ship). The captain of it has a massive bitchfit about how Hux should have launched fighter support for it ages ago.

Man everytime I see these arguments I'm glad for the EU wipe. Shit is way more simple and straightforward now.

Do you have anything to back that bullahit up?

>The opening crawl doesn't decide the nature of the entire universe user.

...then what does, if the narration has no power over it? When is the empire doing something good on screen, actively doing something good rather than 'Sitting about and not currently doing something evil'.

>To be fair, was the average armor even worth a crud in Star Wars?
armor in star wars is about as good as the best armor was in the 70s, when ANH was made

stops frag, spall, and makes instantly lethal hits only almost instantly lethal, but cant stop a direct hit

ignoring obvious protag stuff like leias holdout blaster OHKOing stormies, which we will handwave as "super accuracy", armor does its job fairly well
rebel marines die to hits to nearby walls from the shower of red hot sparks, while stormtroopers only die to direct hits

...and your point is?

A key difference between the Jedi and the Sith is that the Jedi didn't want to enslave all non-Force Users. You can argue the whole "should every Force User have been split from its family" point all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the Jedi didn't murder entire planets to achieve their goals...mainly because their goals were about peace and justice, not domination of those they view as "weak."

The reason no one has any sympathy for the Sith can be summed up as follows: "Start shit, get hit."

Not everybody wants that, sees Star Wars that way, thinks about it that way, etc.

I mean, it could be a good thing we have both canons now. If you want something simple and straightforward, boom. If you something deep and explanatory, boom. Everyone's happy, yeah?