Why is it that male characters with INT 6 and the build and personality of a Buick are a dime a dozen in RPGs...

I see you and raise you this.

That's unfair user.

Why, because with all of those teeth it doesn't have room in the skull for brain?

Korra is way dumber than Rey

You brought someone more retarded then Korra, and I don't think anyone can top her. At least with fictional people. Real people on the other hand....

Seconding this. Rey at least "gets" being a Jedi... sorta.

Korra's first answer to things, even after having seasons worth of experience, is punching it. Except if it's a trap, then it's walking right into it.

That feel when Ahsoka from the fucking CGI cartoon was a better female character than MaRey Sue by several light-years.

Pretty much this.

...

Seven years straight of regular games.
Right-winger.

Try again.

Korra is like that one guy that claims to be an expert in a game and then gets upset when you beat him because you used 'bad strategies' or didn't play the game 'properly'.

And for her, the proper way of playing the game of bending is old school firebending style, only output, only attack, only frontal, never evade.

I guess it's partly because there are more mentally challenged males than females IRL (just like there are more male geniuses, women usually tend to be more "average" than men).

Now I understand why a large portion of conservatives are male

>So many new and interesting planets
>So many new and likeable characters
>Great villains
>Amazing fight scenes
>Both PT shiny and sleek and OT blocky and harsh designs
>If only Christopher Lee had reprised in the series
Clone Wars was a better everything than VII and VIII, except for the singular shining star of Mark Hamill's performance.
And I'll tell you why

+ a good team to play off of

She got some depth in the last jedi, but ep 7 rey was insufferably competent

I want to have sex with db

Literally everything is fake. Welcome to 2018. You just go along with it

STANDING

ON THE EDGE

But then again.
There's a wealth of stereotypes that revolve around women, usually the heavily sexualized types that roleplaying games have a half-deserved reputation for featuring, who're too stupid to tie their own shoes.
There's probably a reason somewhere out there why the "bimbo who would use a calculator to do 2+2 but can't read the numbers" stereotype rarely shows up in RPG characters, and that's what would be interesting to figure out.

Because the low int barbarian male is not considered an insult or demeaning, as the archetype is also generally powerful, courageous and hardy, able to do things the civilized man can not.
A "bimbo" has few redeeming qualities in an rpg.
>you really need this explained to you?

It's not rocket science, user.
The idiot with retard strength is still a competent warrior. He can whack things hard, haul his ass through a dungeon and probably survive in the wild because that's his stereotype.
The retarded bimbo with giant tits can't into anything. It's a creature that was born of modern society, it can't survive outside of it. Nobody wants to play one, because they literally can not do anything. They can't fight, they can't adventure, they can't survive outside, they can't even play a face because they are too stupid and their charms usually only work on stereotypical retards. Bimbos aren't suave or charming, they just have huge tits that can sway some stereotypical idiot, which is why they are usually just the accessories of some powerful dudes that basically has them around as exclusive whores.

Except roleplaying games have plenty of faces who do the job through pure intimidation and metagaming, and there are plenty of people who go specifically for playing sexualized female characters.
On top of that, Gronk the Cowardly, Greedy, Gluttonous But Strong Ogre gets plenty of play.
And the archetype actually got a bit of air in the 60s and 70s, but then again I know that ages have changed (re: my soggy knees).
Anyway, you at least explained why some people don't catch on.

>Except roleplaying games have plenty of faces who do the job through pure intimidation
Bimbos aren't intimidating
>metagaming
No they fucking don't. Metagaming doesn't get you shit and you still need to have a good social related stat or skill, which Bimbos don't have because they are shitty at everything.

>On top of that, Gronk the Cowardly, Greedy, Gluttonous But Strong Ogre gets plenty of play.
Because he's still a STRONG FUCKING OGRE
Are you dense or something? He's still huge, he's still strong, he's still a fucking Ogre that can whack shit good. What can a Bimbo do? Complain about shit and let herself get fucked? That's not a PC, that's a Bard

Exactly this. Women are just "more average" than men.

He's not dense, he made a post knowing what the response would be so he could soapbox for (you)s.
Move on, user.

Bimbos with competence might not exist in real life, but ogres don't either.
"It doesn't exist in real life" isn't an argument when people literally try to out-compete each other in character gimmicks in fantasy - there's a decision or subconscious tendency at the root of it.
And you obviously haven't played in many groups if you think that a lot of D&D groups don't do face work through metagaming.
Hell, there are even people on here who regularly defend it as the one true way to play D&D, saying that speaking in-character is cringy and that "I tell him what I want to hear" is perfectly good logic.

>Bimbos with competence
So you aren't playing a bimbo, then.
You have struck down your own argument.

Because any negative depiction of a marginalized group is misogyny/racism/homophobia/transphobia/anti-semitism/ableism/sectarianism.

Bards are awesome in 5e though, being the ultimate skillmonkey full caster good-at-everything class.

An user above linked the Inferior Five as an example.
If you see that in action and don't think of your average roleplaying group and how they solve problems in practice, then I'd advise you to find a group and give it a spin.

>tfw you realize they weren't roleplaying

>"I tell him what I want to hear" is perfectly good logic.
If that's followed by a roll and within the rules of the system, it's not metagaming you nog.
Metagaming is "I read in the monster manual that fire is sacred to his kind, so I threaten to extinguish the flame"

Swing and a miss.
Metagaming includes taking actions that wouldn't work within the game world motivated by the knowledge that you're playing a game.
If the character wouldn't or couldn't do something based on the amount or quality of information that you give, but you still expect it to succeed because you know of the conventions of the game and the fact that it's a game and not reality, you're metagaming.

>Metagaming includes taking actions that wouldn't work within the game world motivated by the knowledge that you're playing a game.
What is this autistic definition?

...

I'm pretty sure that the character knows what the character wants to hear.

We're talking about character creation choices, not arcane factoids of human biology.

I played an int 7, wis 17 character. She was dumb as a rock, but could learn by rote. She was a gifted soulknife, and basicallyt a guardian for a witch. The rules she lived by were drilled mercilessly into her head, so she would act in the best interest of her witch charge regardless if it was the smart thing to do. she could be tricked relatively easily, but you had to be careful, because if she realized you had tricked her, she would not only never trust you again she would assume you were a potential threat to her charge.

Ironically she played out as a paladin in practice.

Have you ever considered not living?

>mfw average guy married to a genius QT

I think I lucked out my CHA roll.

The quite literal definition of metagaming.
Have you ever actually looked it up or done anything but assume what it means?
That's not what this is about.
It's about a player skipping roleplaying by rolling high on a social roll and saying "I tell (insert suspicious or hostile NPC here) what he wants to hear" and expecting that to make the NPC just move out of the way without specifying anything else at all.

that doesn't sound like a wis 17 character, it sounds like her wis was 7 just like her int in fact

That's the opposite of a high WIS character.

>but female ones are nearly nonexistent?
Because they're all cheap prostitutes. Or free ones, if they're below 5.

I've noticed that people tend to forget how the D&D INT scale works.
It's surprisingly fine-grained, something you don't notice because the other stats deal a lot in abstracts - but a character with INT 3 can speak and understand language, which of course makes them mentally impaired but not to the degree that most people assume.
Since PCs originally weren't supposed to have stats below 3 according to the rules, and you could easily end up with a score of 3 in a stat with a simple 3d6 across the board, 3 to 18 spans the width of functional human intelligence.
A character with an INT of 7 might be slow on the uptake, but they're not "dumb as a rock" - hell, someone with an INT of 10 can be a wizard.
Being able to learn by rote and more or less only by rote is INT 4 or 5 - 7 is the guy from your class who had trouble with homework all the time, while 8 or 9 is the guy who only sometimes had trouble with it when other people didn't.
D&D players have been grading themselves and others by INT score since the stat was invented, though, so it rapidly led to the kind of inflation where anything below 10 was borderline impaired.
A character at INT 3 or 4 can learn to read and write if they put their mind to it - meanwhile, you often have characters at INT 6 or 7 who're portrayed as irredeemably dyslexic.

Wisdom, intelligence and charisma mean literally nothing outside of spellcasting context.

>D&D players have been grading themselves and others by INT score since the stat was invented, though, so it rapidly led to the kind of inflation where anything below 10 was borderline impaired.
I would actually identify the problem as something a little more subtle: everyone looks at a 10 and sees it as "human average." However, in a group, that tends to actually gravitate towards the group's average, rather than the species.

As a result, anything sub-10 is seen as dumber than everyone there. Sometimes, that means pitching down unrealistically.

Then again, INT is the one thing you never see people take below 9 intentionally if they aren't explicitly trying to play a dumb-as-rocks character.
I think it's a bit of both.
When you look at commoner NPCs, you see a lot of 7s, 8s and 9s, and occasionally up to a 12 - but it's pretty fine-grained, and adventurers are generally above average anyway.
Most people probably play around 7 INT and/or WIS in practice, seeing as they aren't actually there to pick up on everything, know it's a game where their lives aren't at stake, aim to have fun rather than to survive and make most of their decisions on the seat of their pants.
It's never really explicitly stated, but a lot of D&D implies that the standard 3d6 across the board doesn't create characters who're actually impaired, just disadvantaged - when an effect, especially in early D&D, bestows an actual crippling stat drop, it lowers the stat to 1 or 0.

If Rey is a Mary Sue, then so are Luke, Han, Leia, Obi-Wan, et cetera.

>ep 4 luke was insufferably competent
>Desert kid who has only ever scrapped with sand-people can use a blaster more competently than stormtroopers
>Noisy assholes can sneak around most heavily manned space station in the galaxy for any amount of time at all
>Jackass can perfectly grappling-hook and swing across deadly chasm with a person hanging onto him
>Farmboy who has only ever flown a skyhopper in atmosphere to shoot rodents of unusual size can fly an X-Wing in a zero-atmosphere dogfight
>Skyhopper boy manages to survive for any amount of time against the most skilled pilot and (to our knowledge) force-user in the galaxy

>Scrap scavenger guesses how to repair dormant ship
>Barely flies and almost crashes
>Angry force-sensitive resists by sheer power of will another arrogant force-sensitive who gives up early
>Is told she's force sensitive, so she tries and fails the most basic jedi mind-trick of lore before succeeding against one dude
>One skinny girl experienced with clambering around the interior of old empire ships sneaks around a fortress
>Has experience fighting for her life, loses most of a fight and taps into anger to push off heavily fatigued and injured opponent

At least Rey has some compelling justifications for doing the handful of things she does. What hoops she does leap through aren't as bad as Luke in his first appearance. She also has a number of character flaws, including poor temper, arrogance, brashness, etc. New Star Wars has problems, and so does the old.

I have singlehandedly seen 7 low-int female characters, 5 of them played by actual women.

Obi Wan lost the first fight we saw him in, Luke needed Obi-Wan's help to blow up the Death Star, got lost on Hoth and nearly eaten by a Wompa, had to be bailed out by Han, eventually ending up in Cloud City to save his friends even though he lost a fight to Darth Vader, only in Return of the Jedi do we see Luke resemble anything like a Mary Sue, and even then he STILL gets his ass kicked by the Emperor. Meanwhile we have Han Solo being frozen in carbonite (although he is certainly closer to a Mary Sue than Luke), and Leia, well, she was a Mary Sue, I admit, but fortunately for the films she mostly only ever played a support role.

None of them held a candle to Rey.

Nobody repected Luke initially and frequently belittled him.
Han is an asshole at first
Leia was abrasive to Han and Luke despite them coming tor escue her.
Everyone on Tatooine thinks Obi Wan is just a crazy old man.

However Rey is loved by everyone she meets immediately, even the villians. Mary Sueness is mainly to do with how other characters interact and react to them and how they interact with the other characters, not strictly how competent they are.

I don't give a shit about justifications because if you keep thinking too hard about it, most things in Star Wars fall apart.
The fact of the matter is that Rey isn't likeable, she doesn't have any good chemistry with anyone and Rian Johnson realized that, even going so far as to cut most of her scenes which would have showed the more extensive training she got by Luke.
It's not because she's a girl. It's not because muh SJW. It's not because womyn. She's just not written in likeable way or if she is, then Daisy Ridley butchers the script. I don't fucking know.
Also, Poe and Finn could be fused to be one character because there's barely any difference between them. Poe only exists to fill the Han Solo and Wedge nostalgia niche.
Ben is great, though.

I'll grant you everything else about Luke, but his T-16 was made by same company who makes X-Wings. Stated in the movie they have the same control scheme and everything.

I played a female werewolf with low INT, she was in her teens, an orphan and had fallen in love with super sentai shows.

So... JUSTICE. Is how I played and made her, everything she wanted to do was in the pursuit of being or becoming a hero of justice. Like a Chuuni werewolf.

She even convinced the entire party to wear armored power ranger costumes she got made for them and bound her own so she could put it on at will.

That's because females play DnD comparatively rarely, and oftentimes dump physical stats.

>the most basic jedi mind-trick of lore before succeeding against one dude
Now hold up there. Influencing someone's mind is demonstrably not the most basic Jedi trick in the book. Not even making shit float a bit is. The most basic Jedi trick in the book is heightened awareness and a sixth sense.
Influencing someone's mind is actually really fucking hard, as evident by how few people do it. It's practically Obi Wan's signature trick because he's the only one who does it regularly and successfully.

>If you think too hard about it, most things in Star Wars fall apart
Nail on the head. It's a science-fantasy popcorn flick, and a lot of it is pretty sloppy. I love the hell out of it, but taking it too seriously is a way to ruin the enjoymen

>Rey isn't likeable
Eh, your mileage may vary. I think that Finn is one of the only genuinely likable characters in the movie, because of the combination of character flaws he has and what he represents. I like Rey as a character, she has solid flaws and motivations, but her personality does leave something to be desired. I don't think

>Poe and Finn should be combined
Nah. Poe is the hardcore resistance pilot who believes very firmly both in his ability (to the point of hubris) and in the resistance and its cause. Finn is a disillusioned slave-soldier, constantly terrified for his life and only after personal freedom, and who is willing to abandon the resistance to save his friend. It's only near the tail end of TLJ that he starts to own the resistance ideals and rebel title.

>My aging Outback has similar controls to the WRX rally car, so I can hold my own against experienced racers
>Driving on asphalt in the snow is close enough to driving in the dirt at high speed

>Loved by everyone she meets
She's met a handful of people. She saved BB-8, Finn was lonely and weird, Han dismissed her but she clung to him, similar with Luke, Chewie has shared trauma, Leia sees the best in everyone, and Poe just met her. Ben (also lonely and weird) hates her and what she represents at first, and grows to respect her, then hates her again.

However, Rey is absolutely the fan-plant. She's the fan POV character, and she motivations are similar to the fandom's, which is to say, she wants more star wars, a badass Luke, more jedi. She opposes Luke's ideas that the jedi should end, and Ben's ideas to wipe out the old and keep the new. She's the meta-narrative answer to the fans, and she's framed as correct.

>Nah. Poe is the hardcore resistance pilot who believes very firmly both in his ability (to the point of hubris) and in the resistance and its cause. Finn is a disillusioned slave-soldier, constantly terrified for his life and only after personal freedom, and who is willing to abandon the resistance to save his friend. It's only near the tail end of TLJ that he starts to own the resistance ideals and rebel title.
That's their setup, but their lines and roles are entirely interchangeable.

>Most basic jedi mind-trick
Not the most basic trick, specifically the most basic mind-trick. The point was that it is plausible that she'd know about it from stories about the jedi. Twice, she failed so fucking hard at it she almost bites it, before she tries again real hard and scrapes by on a single rank and file stormtrooper.

>Influencing someone's mind is acthually really fucking hard as evident by how few people do it
It's rarely shown as necessary in the mainline movies. Obi-Wan pulled it once in 4, and that's the only time Luke saw it used. Luke then pulls it on a bunch of people in ROJ. Obi-Wan pulls it more frequently in the prequels and in the animated series, but it's not like he discusses it as being difficult.

The only explanation we see him give Luke is:
>The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
Certainly Rey, the Rebellion fangirl she was, would have heard of it in at least that context.

>How few people do it
In the canon-only sources, the list includes, alphabetically: Ezra Bridger; The Grand Inquisitor; Kanan Jarrus; Qui-Gon Jinn; Jinx; Obi-Wan Kenobi; Jocasta Nu; Rey; Darth Sidious; Anakin Skywalker; Luke Skywalker; Ahsoka Tano; Asajj Ventress; Mace Windu

That's a not insignificant chunk of the force-users we see in canon.

a bit of the problem is also the ability to roleplay at higher inteligence. Since we could get to 20 Inteligence in an RPG session, while not being geniuses, roleplaying it would require being more careful before each action, etc. Conversely by putting a drooling idiot at 3, retarded Joe at 8 and that smart kid from class at 14, we are able to simulate a greater varietry of inteligence. This is only a problem in a games that allow you to hypothetically reach a value of intelect that's close to genius - and more likely higher than your own

I've always wanted to see two types of female characters created:
>A well-designed female character with below-average intelligence that is dignified and likeable, but clearly not smart or highly competent.
>A well-designed female character with questionable wisdom that has excellent personality, but not-so excellent common sense. She can be a genius, but she has to be a goof.

I think these things are not easy because female characters are just harder to make. There are less references for female characters compared to male characters, and culture makes it harder to create characters without them being perceived as "Mary-Sue", misogynistic, boring, or generic. 2017 and 2016 were full of eggshells everywhere, especially in "progressive" circles.

There's also the factor of women statistically having less variance in intelligence compared to men, so the lack of diversity of intelligence in female characters is somewhat based on reality. That's not to say that fiction has to be realistic, but you have less real-life references of genius and idiot women.

The closest example I can think of for a "dumb" female character is Aqua from Konosuba, but I don't consume a lot of media, so there may be more. Also Konosuba is a parody.

>ignoring the amazon thread spam

...

>if you don't believe every word that comes out of the blessed mouth of john lebowitz you should kill yourself

how many hands do you really need to see a character though

t. dumb rollplayer

>
I think these things are not easy because female characters are just harder to make. There are less references for female characters compared to male characters(...)
From another viewpoint, this is actually a good thing - consider how fucking popular Aqua became.
Even if people say they don't want something, in a lot of cases, this is a knee-jerk reaction simply because they've never seen it in action and thus have no positive examples to compare it to - and especially people on here tend to lean towards the negative end of the spectrum when making assumptions like that.
Hell, just look at how many times SJWs sperg out at theoretical, nonexistent "misogynistic" characters or ones who're literally just filler art compared to actually existing ones, or how often robots and incels sperg about "too competent" female characters in theory while there are few clear examples.
You need someone to create it first, and the thing is that if you realize there's a problem, the easiest way to help it being solved is to do it yourself.

And anyway, one of the points brought up a few times is that there are definitely plenty of stereotypes of dumb women, just like there are of dumb men - the main difference is that one simply doesn't show up in roleplaying a lot for some reason.

>ignoring the fact that amazon characters' "primitiveness" is usually just a cosmetic flaw and only manifests in the lack of societal norms about sex that make women scary to autists
I mean, just look at the threads.

That works to a certain degree, but the fact that there are some relatively clear benchmarks for intelligence set in D&D and people ignore them as a matter of course still implies that there's some relatively widespread reason that people want to make everyone with an INT lower than 10 a retard.
To be honest, I don't think a lot of people have thought about it even half as hard as you're doing.
And anyway, the only thing your way of looking at it does is make the scale of retardation more granular, making it harder to play characters who might just not be used to or good at solving problems logically without being retarded.

Because "dumb strong male barbarian" is an archetype people play to, for which no game-relevant female counterpart exists.

Largely because the common stereotypes of dumb women don't really get to do much, so nobody would want to play them.

>personality of a Buick
say what you will, the Buick oozes personality

You thought that was “barely flies and nearly crashes”?
The falcon didnt have a scratch on it.

I like my dumb female characters to be happy go lucky tards

can't believe OP didn't stop halfway through his post and realized that he was making a really bad thread

Nigga fucking what
youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0

She bumps into shit and they get shot all the fucking time, the only reason they're alive is because the Falcon is sturdy and the TIE fighters have shit for shielding.

NO shielding, shit for shielding would objectively be better shielding then what they actually have.

>Why is it that every second D&D group has a male character with 6 or even 3-4 INT, but female ones are rare as diamonds?
Because if I make a big, buff, amazon who loves to drink and eat her fill before hauling some cute boy to her room Veeky Forums screams magical realm
And they would be right

>Implying he didn't instead mean the modern LeSabre.

>In the canon-only sources, the list includes, alphabetically: Ezra Bridger; The Grand Inquisitor; Kanan Jarrus; Qui-Gon Jinn; Jinx; Obi-Wan Kenobi; Jocasta Nu; Rey; Darth Sidious; Anakin Skywalker; Luke Skywalker; Ahsoka Tano; Asajj Ventress; Mace Windu

Here's a question: How often do we see someone try it and fail for a reason other than 'X race is immune/super resistant'?

>Korra is that guy
Well her “heroic” plot was to unravel the balance between worlds and let the spirit world fuck their world, only to the have all the previous incarnations of the avatar killed and be forced to be shit without them, and finally she stops a big robot and fucks off with her fan-bait lesbian lover. Korra might be the worst performing character of all time.

Best dummy

Worst dummy

Rey = Luke (fan-plant dropped into story whose interests lie outside the war and whose moral philosophy is picked apart)
Finn = Han (outsider caught up in conflict that has no reason to return and fight except for the fledgling bonds he never had - yes Han had Chewie)
Poe = Leia (experienced officer and hot shot whose decisions get many people killed but who also grows into the role of leader)

VIII leaned in on Finn and Poe in a unique way that didn’t work perfectly, but the characters were just carbon copies of the OT in structure even if it Rey is tied to Jakku by the hope her parents are out there, Finn is the ex-first order (instead of imperial) whose was motivated to quit with a friend’s death instead of saving them, and Poe wasn’t literal royalty but a pilot with the loyalty of the other soldiers through his actions.

Ummm no sweetie, all women are smarter than men :)
I can't believe you're trying to portray women with actual flaws beyond being 'too good'

But then again, that kind of proves the point.
Amazon characters might dump INT, but for some reason it always manifests as simple personal quirks such as gluttony and a temper, and of course a tendency to for some reason instantly offer sex in exchange for nothing.
Meanwhile, Gug the Half-Troll Half-Ogre Half-Wall's character and roleplaying orbits around having one brain cell in a wheelchair and the other one pushing.

>Meanwhile, Gug the Half-Troll Half-Ogre Half-Wall's character and roleplaying orbits around having one brain cell in a wheelchair and the other one pushing.
>things that don't actually happen
user, your overuse of gross hyperbole is actively stymieing your argument.

My half or barbarian has an INT of 1 because my DM made me keep the 3. On the flipside, i have 20 strength.

Have you even read some of the stories on this board?
Have you even played with someone who thinks it's fun to play a low-INT character?
You might not have experienced it.
I've GM'd for a fair while for a fair amount of groups and am about to puke at the thought.

I was actually writing things as the most common barbarian stereotype just gender flipped user
Which largely proves my point, you bitch about it cause she's female but if a male did the same thing you wouldn't bat an eye

Do you even get any roleplay out of him?
He's about as bright as an owlbear, and by base benchmarks can only be communicated with using Train Animals.