What does a evil white-green faction look like...

>I think thats the important factor here is to try to find a mostly universally acceptable GW ideology that could be evil because a bad organization or business practice can sour even the most moral of philosophies.

Nazis?

They follow the law of nature.

The strong eat the weak.

And they have judged everyone else as weak.

GW can be evil simply by extending the groupthink cult mindset to include everyone and everything. Whether they want it or not. White has no trouble foisting its ideals on others, and green is all about survival of the fittest. It's natural that a wicked GW cult would simply seek to subsume all life into its matrix.

Conversely, could you do a good RB faction?

Rakdos aren't evil they are batshit hedonists doing a public service. They don't include unwilling people in their revelry, at least by design. The faction of course being B has plenty of assholes in it so the ideal isn't the reality but at least on paper they are about freedom and forcing people to revel isn't touting freedom.

So, the love law and order and think that nature's law is the greatest, right?

So, you have a bigass group of people who run around naked and live in giant bird nests because that's what living in nature is like. And they want to force everyone to live like that. They would be a joke, because a guy in knight armor could defeat a whole army of these idiots, but they have a powerful Nature God on their side to enforce being naked and living in bird nests. So everyone in this naked nest dystopia lives in nature and dies from easily prevented shit like having a really badly sprained ankle because you couldn't run from another naked guy who wanted to kill and eat your raw flesh (because cooking is unnatural), and everyone is crawling with parasites, and they want everyone to live like this forever. Their nature god laughs and loves every second of this because he likes fucking with mortals for fun.

If you are killing sentient robots/people at large with cards like Naturalize to bring about your ideal vision of the world as a still garden, you're pretty evil.

Sure, they're not really eeeevil, but can you make a RB faction that's capital G Good?

A Vigilante’s Guild

The EPA?

That would be RW.

Mother Nature's love becomes smothering and she's tired of being ignored in favor of progress.

Militant druid orders and elvish nations get a bug up their ass and decide to band together to systematically pull down agriculture for becoming too industralized.

Turns out the abuse of the Tomato was the last god damn straw.

Nah they're BRW for a reason.
Also Persecute, Eradicate (Urza Version), and most of the red burn spells that exile and only leave ash (Disentergrate, pillar of flame) and also Crusade/White Enchantment buffs.

...

Literally Selesnya

Slightly off topic, but is it just me or are GW factions the most aesthetic? Selesnya in particular.

VERY religious elves, that overthrow everything via nature magic while being highly militaristic, anything that harms nature without giving back to it is seen as a disease and is swiftly destroyed, and then they use the carcasses of the dead to fertilize a new grove.

Selesnya are not played up as villains or evil, though they do dubious things. Compare dimir or especially orzhov

Anarcho-prim zealot colony that has a big emphasis on convert by the big heavy rock.

True. I don’t think RB can be good, desu

RB can br good. Brazen Coalition arent all bad for example. Other than the demonic theme and take away some of the killing bystamdsrs stuff, the Rakdos are probably a good execution of "good" RB, in that they are flamboyant showmen. Make it about profit somehow to make it black instead of how rakdos used killing and demons and undead to be black, and I think you could nail it. Its easier to make individually "good" RB characters (Angrath isnt a bad guy, just desperate to escape Ixalan, for example) than a whole faction though.

Feldon of the Third Path could reasonably had black in his cost: passionate, ambitious in his attempts to replicate life, potentially reckless, GY mechanics.

Only issue IMO is black's phobia of artifacts.

I absolutely agree, I love that art. I feel like white gets some of the best flavor in the game, like Defensive Formation. Mediocre card but the art alongside the flavor text is hnng.

Seems like a big problem with the idea of an "evil" GW faction is that the flavor tends to be focused on this like utilitarian preservation of life or community and that's generally considered one of the higher goods. The only way people are casting that as evil is by framing the GW faction as "the other" and the audience as an outsider to that community.

Is Rakdos good though if they kill bystanders and worship a literal demon?

Didnt say they were good, just that I believe you could make a good version of them.

demons r just badass angles

But W is lawful and being a vigilante places you in direct opposition to the law.

I think as long as your characters were selfish in their vengeance and has a disregard for collateral damage you could justify them as RB. The Punisher fits pretty well.

Why is mono G almost never a villain?

Because G represents nature and while some pretty fucked up shit happens in nature it’s never sadistic. Just looking out for itself.

G is the most neutral of all the colours. It’s very hard to portray neutrality as a villain without pairing up another colour as it’s evil motivation. Look at Vorniclex, the most well known mono-g villain. He doesn’t mess around with plots, he just wants a world without ‘humanity’. A back to nature type thing.

I can only think of two types: (1) extremist environmentalist (2) big dumb beast.

The first is a trope and the second isn't interesting enough to warrant a lot of exploration.

RB could follow "For the Greater Good" idealogies, mixing Black's willingness to sacrifice for gain with Red's emotional desires to create a faction that values keeping the greatest percentage of its people free and happy, but if you want hardnose Disney Hero protagonist good I don't think you could do it.

Think about this

>evil GW
A big-ass fucking ancient dragon that sees pretty much any other sentinent being as a nuisance and a threat to natural order, and starts methodically wiping everyone out

>good RB
Same setting, demon worshippers who want to kill the big thing so they can survive, summoning demons to fight it cause angels are on the dragon's side

Greater good goes against the color that is supposed to be all about selfishness

See I think that RB example would be Mardu. Kallia the Vast is basically that concept.

...

green believes in the natural order, nature over nurture. white believes in the whole over the few, collectivism over individualism. imagine a faction with a caste-based structure and a totalitatian view where everyone is born to a duty and none are ever allowed to deviate from it, and who also believe that this system is the only way to ensure everyone's well-being.

also most of the dragons of tarkir clans toe the evil side of their respective combinations. dromoka is so over-the-top collectivist that children are taken and given to other families to be raised. familial ties are nonexistant, everyone is part of the clan and the clan alone.

It goes against mono-black, it does not go against Red. Red cares for its people but does not desire a heavily lawful society. A "good" Red/Black character would be someone whose willing to sacrifice, and force others to sacrifice, for the things that he cares about; If you are to place those values on a society at large, you'd have one that is willing to do bad things for "the Greater Good" of its people. If you want to play "Black is absolute in its selfishness" games then I'd argue that you really can't have a R/B Faction that wouldn't fall apart at its seams regardless of its morality.

They are balls to the walls freedom fighters who die today so others can live for tomorow. They only take those willing to do whatever it takes to defeat greater evil. When thier mission is done they're faction will disband.

Knowing they might die any day they live life to its fullest and try to inspire others to do the same. They want the world they save to truely live.

All about creatre sacrifce and life drain to trigger wierd abilities. Maybe some rebel callback for deck searching, maybe graveyard too.

Would a creature with the activated ability to sacrifice itself to save another creature fit black mechanically?

Boros but they're mercenaries

>It’s very hard to portray neutrality as a villain
fuck you, centrist. The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict

Dromoka is an evil white/green faction.

It would usually be white, but given that both sac effects and regeneration/creature recursion are on black, I don't think it'd be too out of line to do it if the fluff for that particular set called for it.

dromoka is the best that happened to the abzan, absolving them of the outdated practice of blood-families and allowing them to serve Tarkir's true masters instead of the scheming spirts of their ancestors

t. Disgusting scalefaggot

Wouldn’t Eugenics be UG or UW?

THIS.

Has no one said the obvious Slytherin? Green/Silver technically, but they always had plenty of white instead of silver.

white and green tend to have peace and order as their shared ethos. So maybe a faction that's extremely rigid and refuses what they consider unnatural change?

RB is the color of selfish resolve, artistic drive, and following your dreams with no regards to rules or reason and making it work through sheer determination. Many rebellious anime protags could fit in RB, but a good ur-example would be TTGL.

MonoG would work with anyone who wants to destroy/reduce society, technology, achievement, or emotion in favor of restoring nature's dominance.
A lot of evil druids end up with this sort of motivation.

PETA is RG, but a slightly more corrupt and dystopian version of the American EPA could be an evil WG faction

another option could be like a fungus or plant that wants to assimilate an entire plane

And I assume those who oppose you are even worse.

Eugenics is blue by default but methods and intent determine a secondary color. I dont think eugenics is green at all, or if it is it has to be default part blue.

Etf?

Mono-G Villian in a nutshell.

>implying nazis and crypto-fascists are not the worst

Eugenics might be Darwinism but when you begin to break it down to a science instead of just letting nature take its course you shift it from G to U. I suppose it could be UG. Eugenics feels very Simic.

Perhaps because most slytherin villains are black?

Slytherin is a UB house. They praise cunning, ambition and resourcefulness.

>more corrupt and dystopian version of the American EPA could

theres room for more?

While we’re on the topic Griffindor is RW. With a focus on bravery and chivalry.

Hufflepuff is probably GW with a focus on community, hard work and fair play.

Ravenclaw is definitely U and is all about wit and wisdom. I could seen argument for UR as there’s also a focus on creativity.

TLDR:

Slytherin: UB
Griffindor: RW
Hufflepuff:GW
Ravenclaw:UR

A pretty balanced cycle all things considered. They could probably make a set with those factions pretty easily.

Garruk has been a villain even before the chain veil.

But I guess that counts as "almost never".

Congratulations you completely missed the point.

In the grand scheme of things, NAZIs and crypto-fascists is small time compared to communism.

which is then insects when compared to the United States, who would upend the governments of continents, plant fascist dictators in power, become the biggest black market arms dealer, and spy on it's own citizens, all in the name of fighting communism.

because they're more RB, they murder way too many animals to be G

The villagers from Night Shyamalan’s The Village

>Rigit social structure
>Emphasis on community and exclusivity of it
>Collectivism
>Brainwashing

Unironically commies.

>I want universal equality, but in order to achieve that shit will be poured into my mouth faily!
>I want peace and prosperity, but in order to achieve that rusty nails will be driven under my fingernails!
>...Can't we just have universal equality, peace and prosperity?
>REEEEEEEEEE STOP BEING NEUTRAL REEEEEEEEEEE

US politics, everyone

Theyre not even a thing Anymore!
You should worry more about islam and corporate overlords

I've always thought a good example of a Good RB group would be something along the lines of the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5. You've got a group of ambitious, driven, emotional people actively going against the established laws and mores of the society around them with the express purpose of criminal actions. They're doing it for a good reason, but they're still doing it in the most R way possible.

The Phantom Thieves themselves are a bit more RBW as a group I feel, but the concept behind a group of people who are there to say "Fuck what you want, this is what we want, and what we want is freedom." seems like Good RB to me.

WG is quite happy to discard anyone who doesn't fall under its purview.

>Is Rakdos good though if they kill bystanders
Is it blender's fault if you stick your dick in it?

>evil
>white

uh, sweetie, all whites are evil

Brainwashing commies aka Selesnya.

It's a group of Luffys/Jap!Gokus, a nonwhite shonen protag guild.

They only care about their friends, but they make friends easily, wherever they go. Their driving goals are getting stronger for it's own sake, having good fights, and maybe some sort of internal ranking system, a Number 1 to strive for. But they don't sacrifice mercy for that; they give their opponent a chance to surrender, heal, and return to fight again, unless they waste that chance/are irredeemably evil.

You have them take risks with things like the greater good for the sake of a fight or getting stronger, but you also have them get serious when things get serious, so they don't stray into villain protag territory.

Their emphasis on genetic superiority, survival of the fittest, etc has led me to believe they're partly green.

Dromoka's faction in Dragons of Tarkir is pretty fucking evil. All the dragons are, to be fair.

Do you even know anything about Selesnya?

Angrath, in RIX, is a great example. The guy just loves and wants to protect his family, doesn't care about much else. Red for his passion and love, black for his selfishness and self-sacrificing nature.

>militaristic
>conformist
>intolerant
>eco friendly
>obsession with race and breeding
I think you're on to something, Nazism could well be a GW ideology. Their aggressiveness might be seen as red, but again they framed it as "reclaiming their rightful clay" and "restoring the natural order", which are very green attitudes.

Red is not necessarily evil, it also includes art and love and other such things. Black is about the individual but again it doesn't have to be evil, it can be something like libertarianism where people are "free" to prosper, or not, according to their talents. A good RB faction could be some kind of libertine society with a strong focus on creative expression and self-sufficiency, such a faction is unlikely to seek out conflict with others due to their "live and let live" attitude, so it would be hard to make for a game like magic, but the "artists quarter" of many major cities, such as Soho in London and New York, could be described as RB.

I dunno, the willingness to use underhanded tactics and co-opt other people's philosophies and institution seems more Blue than anything else.

"Greater good" is an anti-black idea, RB people don't believe in such a thing, that's pure W.

>if you kill people, you're evil
Then there are NO none evil societies, anywhere, ever.

>But W is lawful and being a vigilante places you in direct opposition to the law.
White isn't just law, it's also justice. A white character is not obliged to follow laws he finds to be antithetical, and a vigilante who punishes criminals his society lets go is still white, if he's motivated by a desire for justice. For example Batman is a mono white character.

Same reason it's never the hero, green is not a proactive color.

Red doesn't care about the greater good, black actively rejects the idea, there is no way a RB faction would be concerned with it.

Eh no, but one who sacrifices itself to destroy evil would fit perfectly. You could also have red cards that self-sacrifice to give boosts (mostly to power) to their comrades with a similar "dying to save my friends" vibe.

Selesnya