/5eg/ Fifth Edition General

Apparently there'll be a new product announcements on Feb 6th.

We know, it's Eberron

I let one of my friends, who is a player in my game, roll all three rolls with the Lucky as well as Inspiration. He still got incredibly salty about failing. He's also been a little bitch, should I kick him?

That'll be fucking great. Where did you get the deets?

If an Efreeti loses concentration on a conjured Fire elemental, does it attempt to attack the Efreeti (who is immune to fire damage) or would the Efreeti be able to still command it, but it has the ability to choose if it wants to attack or not.

Maybe I'm confusing Efreeti for something else, but don't they command fire elementals in the plane of fire?

The spell states that you "lose control of the elemental, it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack," but does this apply to the Efreeti as well, being both from the elemental plane of fire and immune to fire damage, the only source of damage a fire elemental can normally do?

I'm more-or-less asking due to clear up confusion as to how a combat with an Efreeti would actually go (I've never run a genie as a DM.)

I know a guy who knows a guy and I'm telling you precisely because it sounds fake as fuck and none of you will believe it

If you cant get the golem, just be fast with the summons. If you + your summons are under the time it takes other casters to take their turn then its perfectly fine. Necromancy doesn't really need to animate skeletons and zombies and the like...but it's just so thematic. Try to see if you are allowed to arm skeletons with a bow. It would significantly speed combat as you wouldn't need to move them a lot and you could roll their attacks like a swarm. Position as needed to avoid fireballs and ruin a wizard's day with repeated concentration checks.

The ranged skeletons would really help honestly. Feels pretty necromancer-y as well. You got your shambling horde and your shambling horde throws attacks downrange

What can get in the way of not being able to resurrect someone? Obviously body destruction, and maybe soul destruction/absorption, but anything else?

Brilliant.

Tear out that page of the wizard's spellbook and pee on it

>new campaign with a new group
>DM only has one rule and that's no evil characters
>play chaotic neutral bard which has an unhealthy love for gold
>lawful good paladin of the party says I'm not allowed to love gold because greed is evil alignment
>party tries to explain how greed isn't inherently evil
>paladin ignores us and calls me a cunt and says to change it
>DM doesn't see the problem and we start
>paladin keeps getting upset at me discussing payment for jobs or asking for compensation
>keeps undermining everything I do by offering to do the jobs for free or telling everyone I'm evil
>getting annoyed but player keeps rubbing it in by saying I'll be forced to change alignment
>character which the DM is trying to hide the fact he's the villain shows up and makes us an offer
>wizard archaeologist and asks for an artifact we found in the ruin
>amazing payout and we don't know what artifact does or if it's even magical
>paladin attacks the villain and tries to justify it out-of-character that it's obviously the villain
>convince the party to team up and knock the paladin unconscious
>DM makes the wizard pay us extra for protecting him from the paladin
>paladin player yells at DM and says he doesn't know anything about alignment
>packs his bags and leaves
>texts me to call me an asshole for ruining the first session
>deleted me off social media and trying to get the rest of the group to exclude me and they can restart next week
>DM told him to fuck off

If you mean Raise Dead, cut off the head and hide it. Cant revive something that has no head.

Resurrection will require either the soul to be unable to return or total body destruction. I guess it depends on whether you think 'a dead creature' can also be a single hand or finger left behind as the spell states that it regrows all body parts. Another point is turning the body into an undead, making the soul unable to return. A soul also has to be willing, so a person may not wish to return to their body, the afterlife may be complete bliss for them.

Look on the bright side. You got rid of That Guy on session 1. Most of us aren't as fortunate

Paladins, not even once.

Thank you for being severely autistic.

Sounds like the problem sorted itself out pretty quickly at least.

>party tries to explain how greed isn't inherently evil
Depends what you call greed, of course. If nobody ever got what they wanted, people would be a lot less happy. I'd only say it makes a character evil if they're so greedy they are willing to cause harm to others for their own gain.

Interesting encounters for Curse of Strahd that aren't in the book?

Rogues and Paladins, man. They always attract that guy.

*Divine intervention: self-explanatory, a deity can easily prevent a caster from taking a soul away from him.
*Soul entrapment: A soul that is being held in something like a soul-gem can't be remotely called back to the body.
*Ownership: Pacts with demons and the like will prevent you from reclaiming a soul that was claimed by them as they now belong to a master.
*Transformed soul: A soul that has transformed onto something else such as a demon or angel cannot be brought back to its original body.

Clearly, the Paladin guy doesn't understand what 'greed' actually means. Being paid for doing a service isn't greedy. Asking the poor farmers, who are already paying you, for far more then they have is greedy.

Actively selfishly seeking out ways to make yourself richer (not just the monetary sense) at the expense of others is greed.

Paladin is retarded.

Sparkly, sexy, mysterious and bisexual vampire men that try to seduce the party repeatedly.

Fighting Death on top of a clocktower.

It's only fair.

The party's cleric has been going back to an ancient shrine of his god and repairing it everytime the party returns to the headquarters of their organization. He finally finished fixing it, re-sanctified it and found this in the offering box after feeling his god's gratitude.

Flask of the Virtuous

This golden flask is decorated in the motifs of the attuned cleric’s chosen deity. If another cleric attunes to this flask, the motifs change to align with that cleric’s deity.

When attuned to a cleric, the flask produces one type of holy water based on their prayers each time they prepare their spells after a long rest. These types of holy water are:

Healing: When splashed on a target within 5ft., heals 4d4+4 hit points. Twice a day.
Warding: When rubbed onto armor, grants that armor +1 AC for 4 hours. Three times a day.
Searing: When rubbed onto a weapon, grants weapon +1 to attack and damage rolls for 4 hours. Three times a day.
Purging: When splashed on an undead or fiend target, deals 4d4+4 radiant damage and gives all attacks made against that target advantage for two rounds. Twice a day.

Oh, paladin is totally retarded. I was just clarifying that, depending on what you call 'greed', it could be evil. Paladin clearly didn't understand that subtlety, though.

The artic has polar bears, which are terrifying IRL. They're HUGE, much bigger than grizzlies. They are not afraid of humans and are, in fact, known to hunt us They can be over 8ft standing up, can weigh up to one and a half tons, and unlike other bears mostly eat meat for obvious reasons. Despite being so huge you can almost never see or hear them coming.

Easy enough to have the players find one or two magically enhanced polar bears, because the normal polar bear statblock honestly doesn't do them justice in the context of D&D. Owlbear statblock at minimum.

>What was the last magic item you gave out?
Some Pipes of Haunting. I was going to give them Satyr Pipes but I chickened out.
>How prevalent are they in your games?
They're everywhere, but my players never bother to look for them. I literally had to leave the Pipes lying on a table in clear view to get them to pick them up.
>mfw these are the same players who complained I wouldn't give them magic items in chargen.

Or just throw in a dire polar bear.

That's pretty cool and depending on campaign that last one could be pretty useful.

Searing is also quite good if it gives a weapon the magic property.

Why are the 5eg discord channels trash?

This, this is why paladins suck ass. Will always bend the entire party alignment to theirs because 'muh character'. Fuck you no one gives a shit about your cliche goody-two-shoes character.

They're part of an organization that's dedicated to keeping their plane sealed off from all others on the mortal side while the gods cover their side.

Their specific branch is responsible for dealing with fiends, devils and liches who managed to survive after the plane was cut off. They've been chasing a pair of balor across multiple continents and trying to figure out how they've been making new demons.

So she'll get plenty of use out of the Purging. And yeah, Searing does. Magic weapons are very rare so they'll get a lot of us out of that. They're 8th level and only the paladin has a magic mace.

Considering that only hurts fiends and undead you could splash it on people to detect shapechangers of the devilish and demonic persuasion...hmmm.

I really like that item, might use something similar in the future.

5E really seems to be item hungry for things that aren't a direct power upgrade in terms of just bigger pluses.

The only good Paladin characterization is The Tick.

>What was the last magic item you received/gave out?
Gave a player a dagger that, when used to deal the killing blow to a sentient being, gives you the damage in HP restoration. So far said player knows the blade is red-black, the handle feels cold and wet despite neither looking wet nor leaving any residue behind, and that it feels alarmingly comfortable in their hand.

>How prevalent are they in your games?
Very. If a PC lives long enough they're almost certain to be loaded with magic items specifically tailored to their playstyle, class features, etc.

So what's a good way to give martials more utility out of combat? Specifically, utility equal to a casters utility spells?
I was thinking a pool of points equal to your level if you had no spells, gained at level three. You could spend them to add+1d4 to a check (so replacing guidance, or making guidance 1d4+2), adding 10' to your movement (including jumps, so martials could get some sick air), or using them to mimic a spell of up to fifth level that has a range of self or 1 willing creature, provided the spell does not deal damage, heal damage, or remove a condition (except maybe removing exhaustion).

Uh, how are you gonna explain a martial version of Polymorph?

Most of the magic items I hand out are ones that I've home-brewed. The ones in the DMG are lackluster in general or limited and all the others they've released are just....meh.

This also, in my head, lead to "drop multiple points on increasing movement, as part of movement use 1 point to cast jump, then jump onto enemy" as a legitimate tactic in warfare under this rule.

You tell people you're a tiger now and start hacking limbs off of them until everyone in the room agrees that you're a tiger

Ooh, good point. I was looking at trying to give them self-buffing capacity.

Consider buffing martial through flavor ribbon type abilities...

For example, what if the mid level mastermind rogue gains a spy network.

A Champion becomes a "knight" with a rank of nobility and some benefits socially and financially.

The humble Barbarian joins a barbarian lodge or becomes a gladiator.

Perhaps certain characters can offer services? A high level fighter could work as a trainer for an army or a commander if sufficiently intelligent.

There are a lot of ideas as long as your DM is willing to play along.

I usually make my own too. 5e is really lacking in this department, every magical item is just "you can cast spell X three times a day with this" or just gives you a static bonus which I find super boring.

I'm kind of confused.Specifically about paladin spellcasting. I can cast a number of spells equal to what the table shows. Using a total # of spells based on the charisma formula.

But oath spells do not need to be slotted as per the charisma number?

>So what's a good way to give martials more utility out of combat?
It's already there, just a matter of using a "tell me what your character does, don't just pick a power from the list" perspective. Ideally, you set up a prevalence of tools, toolkits, and roleplaying while applying skills in limited places where the roll matters to the ga-

>Specifically, utility equal to a casters utility spells?
You don't, unless you make martials capable of casting spells. The sheer scale of versatility in D&D as-is spellcasting basically informs a universe where, should spells and spellcasters be a part of your line of work, you adapt to incorporate them or you fail. The only way to make casters equally peer with martials is to significantly cripple their spell lists, retailor most spells to have less widespread applications, and basically spend more time retooling D&D than it would take to just play a game where casters have fewer functions they can perform.

The pre-made magic items definitely feel like placeholders to me. Maybe that's intentional?

Hard to say though. I like making my own as well.

Well, I was going to dip into /osr/ and bring out the stronghold rules... So fighters and some other martials start a merc company, rogues start a gang, clerics have their shrines... You get the idea.
I also asked a couple days ago about nerfing casters, so that using magic for everything becomes less desirable.

Oath spells are always prepared, they're excluded from everything else you have. Basically see them as bonus spells.

I let my martials pick up skills faster than casters. A caster has to focus on their casting abilities more than their skills. The fighter is proficient in herbalism kits, healer's kits (earned feat) and thieves' tools (paid a guild for training). He's making potions, patching people up during short rests and picking locks or disarming traps.

Yeah. I'm also not a fan of the attuned business either. I get it. It's meant to avoid players just piling on Ring of Protection +3, Plate Armor+3, Cloak of Protection+3, Shield+3 and being ridiculous.

I prefer to have magic items that work without attunement but become better IF you attune.

The paladin's mace is a good example.

Benediction: +2 to attack and damage rolls; deals additional 1d6 to fey, fiends, demons and aberrations.

Attuned Effect: Deals additional 1d8 on all smites.

I feel like a lot of confusion could be solved by WotC just coming out and just making a statement on all the issues.

Consider your spell slots to be your ammo capacity. As a spellcaster, you are a gun that can hold multiple types and sizes of ammunition. For example: At level 5, you can cast 4 1st-level spells and cast two 2nd-level spells (you can also choose to cast your 1st level spells using these slots) before you're out of ammo.

At the end of a long rest, you go to the paladin spell list and "prepare" a number of spells equal to your Charisma modifier + half your Paladin level: let's say the above LV5 Paladin has 14 CHA. That means he prepares 4 spells.

These can be any Paladin spells of any level you can cast. Each time you cast, you choose which spells you use based on the ones you prepared. Your Oath spells are no different; you simply add them to the list of spells you're able to prepare each time.

One thing to remember about magic users is that they may be powerful...but they are always a target. A wizards spell book is worth a lot, a sorcerer could be viewed with outright hatred for their bloodline and powers, a warlock is honestly like a witch and you know what happen to those. Clerics even got a raw deal some of the time.

You got think about the suspicion as well. Did that hedge wizard bamboozle me? Did that warlock curse me? Have they driven the king and nobles to madness with their magic?

Unknown wizards and casters who aren't aligned with any factions should be facing some RP penalties and other problems until they've proved their worthiness. Being powerful means you are blamed for a lot of things.

The Book of Vile Darkness. It's a major plot item as of late, and one of the players just attuned to it.

>the first bit
True. I once overheard an argument where the DM said that flour did not stick to magically invisible creatures.
So, possibly creating ways that non-casters can counteract magic? I was thinking about expanding the rules for rituals, delving back into how they were in 3.5's Unearthed Arcana, or even 4e, which took them to glorious heights.
That does sound like a good idea. What was the variant training rules you used?
I was thinking of going worse: wizards get disadvantage on one score's ability checks, sorcers deal with madness, warlocks and clerics owe their patron/deity quests, bards are... Not sure about bards, paladins, rangers, EK, or AT.

Though still limited to the total number of castings allowable in a day in the table, yes. Don't know why this part was left out when these guys tried to explain.

It may be easier to simply make it hard for magic classes to get their spells. IE they have to research them instead of getting them automatically at level up.

This pre-commits them to having to work to find spells much like a martial has to work to find those weapons and armor. Whether or not this is an acceptable idea will depend on how you view casters.

Seems to be a bit player hate tho honestly. While I agree casters currently do too much too well. I'm certain there isn't an easy solution that people will agree with.

1 week of training for basic level of skill and cost based on rarity of the skill.

Learning how to properly use a healer's kit was free because he asked for the training from their organization.

Learning how to use an herbalism kit cost him 50g because an alchemist/herbalist had to take time out of their day to teach him.

Basic level is a flat d20, no modifier.
Two weeks of training total for standard skill level which is d20+proficiency.
One month of training total for expert skill level which is d20+proficiency+modifier.

This is dedicated training. He couldn't split it up. But it's paid off for him and the group.

He's rolling d20+9 on his potion-making rolls right now. He heals each member of the party for 2d8+8 with his healer's kit every short rest. He's rolling d20+10 on his thieves' tools checks.

But his character has invested a FUCKLOAD of time into learning the skills.

Wait. I'm wrong on the rolls. It's d20+6 for potion rolls and d20+7 for thieves' tools. Holy shit, I misremembered BADLY.

Well, the last time I played D&D, I was a caster. It wasn't 5e, but I tend to presume that unless stated otherwise, casters can beat any non-caster in anything except damage output. (It was hard putting a group together when I was dealing with my ex roommate. Hell, sometimes it was hard not being late for work with that fucker around).
So most of the player hate is directed at me, since I more than once aimed to abuse my spellcasting to short circuit encounters.
World building magic to have a cost is kind of hards when the system is not built for that.
Huh. I was thinking it was going to be longer. Way back when wotc still had their forums, I did some variant training rules that tied into variant proficiency levels - there was P-1 (so +1 for a 1st level) and P-2, with modified training times based on... I would have to find it, but I think it was the fact that the devs were american, which has a school year of 32 weeks (close enough to 250 days), but since you only used 5 days per week on classes, it was...about 175 days of actual training. So I used one half of that, rounded up to 90 days, for P-1, and 1/4th (45 days) for P-2.
But I also like GURPS and Traveller, is it any surprise that I would think like that?

It was equal to about double that time since those are assuming 8 hours. His character was training 16+ hours a day. I also reduced the initial time because if I gave them that much downtime, they'd be rolling in scrolls, pets, gold and a whole bunch of other shit.

The wizard spends their highest remaining spell slot before each long rest making a scroll. He has 12 (TWELVE) scrolls of Counterspell left over from the month of downtime when the Fighter got expert skill w/ Thieves' tools.

I think next time I'll just let martial characters choose three kits/skills to have basic skill level with and two to have standard skill level with and an option for an expert level skill if starting at 3rd.

>WotC just coming out
That's fucking gay.

>I tend to presume that unless stated otherwise, casters can beat any non-caster in anything except damage output
Depends on level, but even that's not really true. Sorcerers can put out some serious damage in a turn. Non-casters mostly benefit from the fact they get their abilities back on short rests, so can do more consistent damage throughout the day.

If casters seem too powerful, more encounters throughout the day / more short rests will change that pretty quickly.

It would clear up some things if they were bit more forthcoming. Though 5E seems to be the edition of "work around the edges and make it work".

The biggest way to handicap spellcasters is actually one that people don't often consider.

The rest system. If spell casters have a worse rest system, or require more meditation atonement or what have you, they are significantly weaker. Admittedly though this runs into the problem where people do not get to use their cool fight ending spells as much. There would need to be some sort of delicate balance but I think this is the place to hit magic users without destroying them.

Rest systems and attrition are TERRIBLE balances for casters. They sound good on paper, but all it really does is create a situation where the casters are asking for a long rest after every single encounter and slowing down the significantly unless the DM imposes some sort of "time limit" on every story arc. Pelor knows we already get enough of that shit from Warlocks.

DESU I pretty much saw casters hiding in Leomund's, or in lead cubes underground, or hidden behind arrays of defenses or walls and long resting whenever they could. I do to some degree think they would attempt that in both cases, but still, I feel there needs to be some downside to bursting out a good chunk of spells then resting. Wandering monsters don't really seem to work since it would become *suspicious* if every group of wandering monsters had something that could dispel magic. Monsters setting up more defenses because the PCs are taking their sweet time doesn't seem to work against spell casters as well since they seem to have the edge in attrition slogs.

In my personal experience it would just make them weaker to have certain resources require longer than the long rest to come back and they would take the same number of rests in dungeons...but between periods of rest and town they would start getting worn down if they overextended.

Perhaps I'm biased though, the wizard in our game is quite the crafty piece of crap and uses his spells devastatingly most of the time. Being the bodyguards for a wizard has gotten somewhat old.

I suppose if you weakened magic overall but made it so casters had more of it maybe it would feel more fantasy-like but their game influence wouldn't be as compelling? Probably would see more weaker niche spells which could be fun.

yes

Weakening magic overall is the best solution. As videogamey as it sounds, if you remove alot of their "utility" magic and just make them closer to blasters, they work alot better in terms of game health and encounter-design.

How do you go about it? I favor destroying their sanity.

Fuccckk yeess

>The wizard spends their highest remaining spell slot before each long rest making a scroll.
That's extremely generous of you.

What would the Demons of Chaos be like in D&D 5e?
Like, devils and demons have their universal traits, so would Chaos demons have universal traits to their respective gods, right? Which should they be.
Demons should probably be getting the normal 120ft. darkvision and resistance to non-magic slashonng, piercing and bludgeoning weapons,
Not sure about making chaos demons imune to being poisoned or their language.
Probably each god would make their demons have some benefits such as:
>Khorne
Some charge ability
Proficiency in Athletics and Strength ST or advantage on these checks
>Nurgle
Extra hit points? Second wind?
Spread disease... which would translate as being poisoned or something
>Slanesh
Charm and sonic attacks ?
Extra speed, idk
>Tzeentch
probably some ilusion shit and CHA based skills
minor divination?

What do you guys think?

I mainly play paladins and I'm not like that.

>What was the last magic item you received?
My character completed a job for a god that was concurrently his big personal goal so he got a +2 scythe that’s loaded with additional effects. Like I mean speaking with the dead at will, two misty steps a day, the ability to phase through solid objects twice a day, the ability to fucking send things to the shadow realm if it kills something, and some other stuff. This thing’s OP and I love it. Looking forward to casting Haste on myself and going to town.

Anyone have that webm of Kiss in scooby do? i remember the filename to be something like "high level bard"

Replace the word smite with the word blast, and add in agonizing blast invocation .

Congrats you're now doing more damage at 120ft with 2 attacks and for the whopping cost of an invo while keeping all your spells slots for shit you actually need them for.

>Khorne
Give em something close to Barb rage and Charger
>Nurgle
Second Wind and give them a random disease they're infected with but suffer no major hindrances from, and can inflict with a touch.
>Slanesh
Hand full of 1-3 level enchantment spells, plus like, Thunder Wave on recharge or At Will
>gay plan man
A few illusion spells.
Horned Rat
Give them a combination of Khorne and Nurgle bonuses.

Just spent the last two hours making a list of all the Undead that are under 19 CR that Oathbreaker Paladins can assume control of. This list might also be useful for Clerics.

Did I miss any statblocks or did I get them all?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q8nZkA7lXtv2ILXfIqm1o2WUVSPPs0FCxWZdJanKNJ8/edit?usp=sharing

>clerics controlling undead
Dont get my hopes up like that user.

Same guy here, just found that there's more Undead in the Tortle Package.

Sorry to crush your spirits, user.

I heard the new product is being announced in Feb is this a reliable rumor?

>Horned Rat
I like your style.

Wait, Warhammer demons have darkvision? Also, you sure only Magic weapons hurt them normaly? Chainswords and bolters are magic?

They should speak draconic, because thats kinda latin and draconic os kinda latin

If the magic user has components, "track" those.
ie: caster has 5 spell slots with levels adding up to ~22 or so.
Say he has ~120 component slots (sounds like a lot: can reduce it).
As he casts spells, he uses up a proportion of his components (spell level).

Could force them to be more economical about dungeon attrition.

Very nice, very well done. Stolen.

>What do you think?
I think you are wasting your time. Just refluff everything and call It a day.
Daemons are too much for your avarage D&D game anyway. And dont even get me started on 40k.
Even If you managed to get It done, It would be shit. I am helping you.

Git gud. You don't need to nerf magic at all like everyone is saying.

1. Dispel magic happens 'sometimes'. Not all the time, but if this was your only solution you're pretty shit desu.
2. Defences are a serious deal. Enemies can reset all the traps (and traps should be more than just 'you see trap, you disarm trap), move in more monsters (many monsters outright respawn)... Monsters can group up into an even deadlier group that the party has to think 'actually, maybe we should be running now' rather than you pussying out and giving them achievable encounters. That's not a punishment.
3. Rest. The players can't fucking rest when there's 10 goblins around them yelling at them constantly. The players are going to have to find some way to cut out the sound, but since this is kind of an obnoxious 'b-but it doesn't say you can do that in the books!' -prompting deal try to avoid it except as a last resort. Players should at least then bring earmuffs, which also means that the players will wake up only to have to worry even more about what they're facing since their perception is utter shit now.
4. Loot. Party sleeping for 8 hours in the dungeon with earmuffs on? Well, all the monsters just conveniently walked out with all the loot.
Have fun with that, you fucking tossers.
5. Time limits. The dungeon entrance closes after a set time. There's a sacrifice on the altar waiting to be sacrificed. In X days the world will explode. Don't use this all the time, but it's a must.

Go back to your containment thread

Oh, and this post is mostly directed to the DMs that want to make wizard 'just a sorcerer blaster'.

I think you are way over your head.
You are clearly no game designer and home brews are cancer.

That said, where do you even would get non generic information on those demons? The small things, such as darkvision, smell, size, minor powers? 40k =/= D&D in a looooot of aspects.
Nowhere? Would you make shit up? Would you make them special snowflakes?

I'm a player in a game where the DM likes giving out opportunities to get magical items and stuff, as well as being game for listening if we want to do or get something in particular and we come up with a quest to do to get it; someone really wanted a bag of holding so he suggested some sort of black auction where it could be bought it stolen.

I wanted to get mithril shirt or breastplate and I am not sure of the lore behind the material. I thought of something like needing to find dwarves that even deal with the ore and then finding an order of elven smiths that even know how to work the metal.

Something where it takes time and effort rather than just 500+Item in gold.