What is the official Imperium stance on Xeno life AND does that stance make any difference between "Intelligent" Xenos and "Animal" Xenos?
For example, it's of course Heresy for a Space Marine to work in unison with an Eldar war party, but is it Heresy for a Space Marine to use a xeno beast as a mount?
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Depends on who hears about it.
> it's of course Heresy for a Space Marine to work in unison with an Eldar war party
Thats very context dependant. If it was soley for the benefit of the Eldar it would be, but Marines have frequently allied with Eldar when its necessary to deal with a larger threat. Some sections of the Imperium like more radical inquisitors and Rouge Traders will also hire Alien mercenaries comparatively often.
The Imperium doesn't give a single fuck about non-sentient Xenos. The most common livestock animal in the entire galaxy is the Grox, which is definitely not from earth. As for Xenos as mounts for space marines, think of the Space Wolves. While there is plenty of evidence those wolves are mutant human offshoots, to the wider Galaxy they're just weird aliens and no one bats an eye.
Xenos only covers sentient life. Imperium doesn't really care about non-sentient aliens on an ideological level, grox are aliens and they're a backbone of imperial agriculture.
>does that stance make any difference between "Intelligent" Xenos and "Animal" Xenos?
Yes. Grox are alien life forms, but because they are non-sapient and very useful, they have been widely incorporated into the agriculture of the Imperium of Man.
wh40k.lexicanum.com
Do Grox make good cavalry?
>While there is plenty of evidence those wolves are mutant human offshoot
What the fuck, I thought they were just giant wolves?
Don’t Space Marines weigh a couple tons? Doubt anything as small as the thing in OP could carry one.
A fit and proportional 8' tall Marine should be pushing 400 pounds in his black carapace. The external armor is less predictable, made of Godknowswhatium as it is.
With full armor, ammo, and battle equipment, it's not hard to imagine that he'd be pushing near 2 tons.
>They need to be lobotomized because they're a danger to have as livestock.
I'll take that a no.
>just giant wolves
Fenrisian Wolves and people share the canis gene sequence and after so many generations of gene seed growth it is now impossible for a space wolf astartes gene seed to successfully graft in a person without it (Thats why all successor chapters brought a colony with them) and the unique circumstance that results in a space wolf going feral is what happened to a segment of the original colonists population resulting in the wolves of fenris. It's why they're so intelligent and it's been hinted at that every so often a wolf is born sentient.
>but Marines have frequently allied with Eldar when its necessary to deal with a larger threat.
And they always have to keep it as secret as possible, for fear of the Inquisition.
No
The hints from Thousand Sons and from the Fabius Bile Clonelord novel suggest that the wolves are aliens who changed themselves due to changes in environment
They added a gene that let them evolve to survive but that turned them down to semi sentient
Then human colonists came along and to survive they copied those genes
>There are no wolves on Fenris
>Oh you know there are, and you know what they are
This, really, this.
Nah, it's human colonists who are the woofs.
In Prospero Burns it's hinted that the pseudo-Astartes treatment turned Kaspar's buddy who "didn't make it" into a Fenrisian Wolf and that he's waiting for Kaspar when he walks innawoods at the end.
Anyone wonder if there is a non-sentient loophole for alien races that are useful?
I'd imagine the grey knights would have just checked 'Pet' on the xenos classification form for their Jokeros. or when necrons sorta help them they label necrontyr tech as 'furniture'
>What is the official Imperium stance on Xeno life
>"Intelligent" Xenos and "Animal" Xenos
If it's sentient/intelligent, exterminate it and colonize the planet. If it's an animal, check for usefulness first (like grox), and then exterminate and colonize the planet if they hold none.
As in how to differentiate one of the other; if it can do basic math, then it's intelligent.
It depends on a statute of limitations Basically. Tallarn desert raiders have ridden giant lizards and have for many millennia. This is tolerated
Nah, somethings seriously wrong with the humans there.
Magnus hints at this in a thousand sons and the SW segment of forge world book outright tells the reader that Fenris is within a quarantaine zone of the DAoT.
No loop hole needed.
But you are refering to intelligent species and xeno tech. That's something different all together.
Jokaero. It is ambiguous if they are sentient, or simply called non-sentient because their invention ability is so useful to the Imperium.
I always thought of them as simply orangutans in every level if you ignore their ability to build digital weapons and have instinctive abilities at assembling/disassembling/reassembling tech.
You could argue that it's an xeno animal that just HAPPENS to have the ability to build awesome stuff and tell the Inquisitor right in the face that it's your pet and that it's none of his business here.
Yeah, sure, but there must be a law on books somewhere.
>If it's sentient/intelligent, exterminate it and colonize the planet.
Is it always exterminate? I though I've read of them enslaving alien races before.
I think that in the Deathwatch Codex a Kill-Team was sent to off a group of the Jokareo, who in a panic managed to build something so big it blew up the ship the marines were using. That fiasco changed the Imperium's policy with them from "shoot to kill" to "leave them be"
marine power armour is only 180kg.
A marine in his armour is only around 400 kg.
no. sometimes the inquisition initiates it.
it will at times be hidden from a particular other inquisitor who disagress that its necessary. But thats more of a polotics thing than a heresy thing.
sanctioned intelligent xenos are a thing. often kroot mercs and the like.
>sanctioned kroot
I doubt that actually works anywhere besides the far fringes of Imperial civilization
The imperium tolerates non and semi sentient xenos (jokaero an example of the later)
They do not tolerate extremely mutated abhumans - since the souls would pollute the Human gestalt
So no way would the Emperor have left them if they were human genewrecks
Look at the art of Prospero burns vs fenrisian wolves in 40k
The colonists landed and found these massive xenos beasts that hunted in packs and called them wolves
Over time that created a psychic resonance that made the aliens more wolf like - we know now Fenris has nature spirits and of the colonists used the alien dna they would be linked
Anyway - if rumours are true we will get a big space wolf campaign this Summer and get answers
>we know now Fenris has nature spirits
I'm both surprised and yet this is kind of logical. The Warp is a realm of thought and emotion, so it stands to reason that reasonably benevolent local spirits would also be created. I'm just surprised that GW allowed anything from the Warp that isn't ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM EVIL.
the guard and inquisition use them from time to time.
GW has always allowed that. The warp being "ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM EVIL" is a fan thing
So does this mean the Rune Priest at the Trial of Magnus was not, in fact, full of shit? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
I mean, given the canon, it's not that much of a jump to assume such a thing.
You can count all the examples of inherently good warp-things on one hand,
If Yvraine is anything to go by, the Imperium's stance on Xenos might be changing very soon.
there's few inherently good sure. but there's plenty of stuff thats neither or evil.
unlikely. the imperium has been fine with cooperation with xenos for millennia
If sentient, they'll take no chances. After the Eldar, Tyranids, etc, Xenos proven to be great threats.
If non-sentient, well is it useful? Grox & Jokaero are very useful as livestock & mechanics.
You should feel euphoric, we're opening the door on a slightly less dark future for our favorite grimdark setting
generally policy on Jokaero seems to be "supply with bananas, hope them give you something cool in return"
Why are the Jokos so advanced if they're so limited to a single system?
Most, as people say, don't give a fuck about alien animals. Some monodominants are crazy enough that that they think dealing with alien animald is hurresy. This is manifest insanity, as there are maybe as many as eight Terran animals that made it to space. And that includes Rattus Verminus Terribilis. Such a monodominant Imperium would be dependent on soy, rat, dog, and recycled human tissue to survive, and would starve to death very quickly.
During the Great Crusade the politcy was "Submit, become our servants and go extinct over time as you all will be sterilized, or die now", but in 40k is "Xenos are evil and must be killed".
Yes, but that only happenes in the far fringes of the Imperium or in absolutely secrets organizations the Administratum doesn't have any control over (like Grey Knights and their jokaero buddies). Rogue Traders and radical Inquisitor recluting kroot, eldar and even orks (from time to time and just for a limited period) for their retinues have been heard off.
Old Ones fuckery
Where did you pull that shit from? The wolves are failed geneseed recipients. That's why they are massive. They're basically werewolves.
The guard have also made use of kroot, as well as orks and probably other xenos. Part of the Blood Axes clans whole thing is being mercs that take payment in guns.
Thats Thunderwolves, regular fenrisian wolves are former colonists.
Rowboat I am going to litter every floor of the Imperial Palace with Legos if you bring that thing anywhere close to it again.
I always mentally picture the Jokaero as the Librarian from the disc world series. Except if you replaced magic with digital weapons.
Actually there is no need to destroy all xenos. Just some of them.
Wind of Beasts, user.
There are no wolves on Fenris.
I think the squats back in the day built their entire civilisation on GM algae grown in giant vats. They used it for everything from meat substitute to beer
found the except
>Although huge cargo ships brought food with the colonists, the only way to feed the growing population was to grow nutritive algae in artificially lit hydroponic tanks deep below ground. Dried and processed. this provided a basic mnaterial that could be ground into flour. re-textured into coarse synthetic foods, or even brewed into crude but highly potent ale.
So I don't think the raving xenophobes would necessarily doom the population
In the vastness of the Imperium, there has to be a xeno species that ISN'T the eldar, but fits perfectly with our ideas of what an Elf is, yeah?
No one can save us from this grimdark future... NO ONE.
>Algae Ale
What?
Those are just exodites on lost eldar empire worlds
No, not Eldar, Elves.
Eldar don't even look like Elves, they look like aliens.
I suppose there might be abhumans (or just classified as human) who have pointed ears and are tall and graceful but aren't genetically related to the Eldar.
>A fit and proportional 8' tall Marine should be pushing 400 pounds in his black carapace
>marine power armour is only 180kg
>A marine in his armour is only around 400 kg
Says who? GW are pretty wildly inconsistent with their numbers. Shaq, all 7'1 of him, weighed 325lbs/147kg in his prime, and he's hardly as broad as a space marine and lacks the extra-dense bones and muscles.
As far as the weight of power armour goes, I know that it's made of super space materials, but a reasonably sized motorbike weighs more than 200kg and that isn't designed to stop anti-tank rounds.
Aren't Jokaero technically labelled as a modified terran(not-xenos) creature and that's why the Inquisitors use them?
>Thats very context dependant. If it was soley for the benefit of the Eldar it would be, but Marines have frequently allied with Eldar when its necessary to deal with a larger threat.
Extreme caution must be used in these situations. The Eldar are known backstabbers and manipulate their "allies" which is why the codex forbids collusion.
>snooty
>slender
>pointed ears
>more or less humanesque face
Nah they're elves
>That face
>Humanesque
...
>The Xeno life cannot raise an army
It's okay to let it live, to exploit it for Imperial gain
>The Xeno life can raise an army
Exterminate it at all costs
>Imperial Fist on a dino
I don't remember them coming from Dino planet. Or the Fists being a real cavalry heavy chapter. Why not a White Scar?
The weight of power armour is stated directly in Codex: Angels of Death to be over 250 lbs
Xeno beasts have to be accepted by Imperial law, because almost every instance of cavalry in the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines involve beasts not found on earth.
THIN
What pattern is that?
Aquila?
probably. thats the standard one.
Once upon a time, GW didn't attract so many autists and we all just instinctively read those stats as "fuck huge like a brick shithouse" and "really fucking heavy, you won't even be standing up" respectively.
>fear of the Inquisition.
>Rogue traders
That's what ordocucks ACTUALLY believe.
The Imperium is fine with Xenos if they submit to being an eternal slave race. Unintelligent Xenos animals don't really have a choice so they submit by default. More intelligent Xenos might understand that fighting a massively larger empire might be worth it if they get to keep their freedom even temporarily, so they're exterminated.
Looks more human than the average mutt
No one even knows what the fuck a monkey is anymore (some heretical Mechanicus dudes think they used their tails to hang from trees but anyone with a brain knows it had a poison stinger) so I'm doubtful.
>Rogue Traders
Let's just be clear, though, that Rogue Traders are often sanctioned to operate outside of imperial law, it's social/political structure, and are not accountable to anyone save Terra.
This arguably applies to astartes too, but the astartes do not have a mandate to fuck around with these things, whereas rogue traders often do.
Yes, the bipedal humanoid does look more human than a fucking dog
Thanks for the insight, Tesla.
So you acknowledge mudbloods are animals.
We're talking fucking 40k here, not Harry Potter.
Christ, you're on a roll today.
So are you insinuating 40k humans have gone through the day of the rope?
Not exactly, but given how stupid many of the humans are in 40k, it's clear they never had a Day of the Rake
In truth, they have gone through both.
He's (presumably) not talking about dog mutts
Everyone is a mutt then, no one has a full 100% genetic purity.
Not even remotely a big enough population on fenris for that. Unless most of them are psykers.
>and that isn't designed to stop anti-tank rounds
Neither is power armour. Krak missiles, lascannons, and plasma weapons can punch through power armour.
Test
Which mark are we talking about?
Doesn't matter, they're all equally vulnerable to anti-vehicle weapons
As is stated in the Imperial Guardsman's Primer
...
>Sanctioned Xenos
Plenty of xenos get sanctioned for human use. Generally, it's when such life is considered both useful and wholesome enough to be safely used.
Some Imperial Guard regiments make use of xenos mounts, which is fine considering the limitations of Terran mounts (even the DKK's aren't truly horses anymore). Other worlds make use of xenos plant and animal life for the unique and useful substances they produce, or for general consumption.
Any xenos that is smart enough to gather together and resist the Imperium is generally slated for extermination, though. The Imperium is fine with edible cattle, but a competitive sapient species can't be tolerated. They can still sometimes be hired as mercenaries or guides, but they're always distrusted and would otherwise be killed if they aren't useful. The Imperial Guard has made use of Kroot before.
Looks more like a problem with too many coats