So what sort of things would you want from a Skirmish wargame based around smugglers?

So what sort of things would you want from a Skirmish wargame based around smugglers?
I'm thinking of writing one and eventually kickstartering it. I've got a basic mechanic set down and in mind, now I'm thinking over the specifics, what kinds of things would people want?

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I remember your last thread, and I'll reiterate wanting a lot of strong, objective based gameplay and meaningful reasons to take models whose main focus isn't fighting, and/or giving every model a utility role in addition to its combat one.

Although it's also worth asking, what tone are you going for? Realistic and grim? A bit lighter and more romanticised? Full ridiculous, with the boozeleggers drinking various rare concoctions to get mechanical buffs, or with supernatural stuff like the famous Cornish mermaids being available as parts of scenarios, things to placate or to buy services from?

Hey, cheers. I'm totally building in the objectives by making monetary gain the first and foremost goal over stabbing the other dude.
Current plan is for the game to be very grounded in reality with players being able to opt to spend cargo to give their crew temporary bonuses (Each of the base stats is related to something that was smuggled commonly back in the day, Brandy for Bravery, 'Iron' (As in weapons) for raw physical strength, ect)

Though, one of my ideas for an extended goal once I kickstarter it is a splatbook with various options for weirdness, ranging from the classic gothic horror creatures to Lovecraftian abominations right through to weird magic shit that you could smuggle.
As for models having utility, I'm currently planning for the campaign map to be separate as it were. Then again I could always include some sort of mechanic for models gaining abilities that influence your strategy between 'battles' (Models with high spot finding it easier to find hiding places for example, while those with higher haul can move cargo further each turn/day representing the fact they can drag shit onto the horses faster)

But I'm aiming mostly for modestly grounded with some romantic elements, without going full fantasy.
Sort of youtube.com/watch?v=elTKqisXXCE this kinda feel.

You either need themes and tones, or a setting. If you're going for fantasy vs gritty, that's going to inform hard on how the game plays.

In combat utility was the sort of thing I'm thinking of, having models who are particularly fast for grabbing choice loot, or strong for carrying more of it, would be an interesting thing to have to balance with just going for more weapons. Maybe models with an ability that let them look at what a bit of loot actually contains, since with crates and barrels washing ashore you'd often not know what you'd gotten until you had a chance to drag it away and check. Bringing along a smart alec who knows the manifests and how things are packed to help you discern the loot most worth going for would also be a useful feature, I think.

The overall discussion of tone makes sense. How lethal do you intend it to be, both in a battle and in the campaign? Will fighters go down pretty fast? How likely is it that a downed fighter will die, or be seriously injured? Those elements of permanence are quite important to get right, since too little robs it of weight, but too much can just make a death spiral boring to play.

Look you need to understand that trying to sell:
>Kalkaren Juice (for medicinal purposes, of-course)
>Ganga roots (which are used for both medicine and poison)
>Fresh corpses
>Dwarven ale recipes
>Halfling White-mead
>Lawd pics of elven maidens
>Lawd pics of orcish maidens
>Lawd pics of owlbear maidens
>Lawd pictures of Dwarven maidens (You sick twisted perv!)

Under the nose of the bishop is a quick way to find yourself hanged.
That is unless you grease the right palms.

Can you guess whose palms?

Well, I'm aiming for heroic-realistic, models might survive being shot at once or twice (Doubly so if they're being shot at by someone shit) but they'll come through with some scars.
Mordheim lethality really, is the comparison I'd make.

Also, shit, your smart alec description is exactly what I had in mind for the assess skill.

Most likely way the combat'll work is
>Each model has a number of wounds equal to its Oak stat (Usually 2-3 for the average person)
>An attack between equals usually does ~1 wound, 2 if they roll really well or utterly hammer all their turn resources into it
>When wounded model is taken out
>Model roll Oak to see if they're hurt (And you can of course, pay for medical to add dice to this) then gets to roll on a chart to see what happens to them ranging from scars to losing fingers right through to dying. Can choose to spend coin to fudge serious injuries up or down a bit (More medical treatment), or permanently lose a point of luck in order to reroll making this less brutal than it appears.
So, fairly lethal, or at least costly to have models hurt.
Obviously you want to avoid people getting the drop on you, or even really getting involved in combat without getting the drop on other people unless you have an advantage in the form of Big Dave who works down the butchers in the next village and comes with a massive meat cleaver or having a couple more men than them.

Setting would be 17th century English coast, current way I'm planning to do it is a bit of a 'build your own map' method where the players basically print off a section of the English coastline (Or come up with their own) and then drop some dice to create resource centers.
Though I might also include a default map for players that just want to get on with it based on the cornish coastline.
>Pic related, actual historical smuggler trail.

Something you'll also need to consider is good terrain rules. Those Cornish coastlines are fucking mean, and it'd be a good way to add some complexity.

Imagine a scenario where a good load of loot has spilled out onto a beach, but the tide is coming in fast, advancing a random number of inches a turn and sweeping goods further and further out. Naturally, you stick a good amount of nice loot right on the edge to make people risk getting swept out to see to go grab it.

You also need things like the danger posed by crumbling cliffsides, hard to traverse areas like broken ground with lots of large, slippery rocks, or even simple things like being on a rocky beach, where a fall is a lot nastier and the footing is unstable.

Actually, there's an interesting thing about rocky British beaches. Since they're all small stones, basically, it would mean that no model should ever be without a ranged attack. You can always find a decent fist sized rock, and a good throw with one of those things can do some real harm, especially if the foe is unarmoured, as will usually be the case I think. As armour, while useful in a fight, would just slow you down and mean you could carry less loot.

>Small stones
Fuck me I never thought of that. I'm just writing out the rules for scrambling up cliffs and buildings as we speak.
I'm also planning to include condition rules for complicating scenarios, things like the tide coming in would be perfect for that and cliffs having a chance of crumbling while people are climbing them.

Most likely way particularly difficult terrain'll work is terrain will have a difficulty pre-set and the worst of it will take one of your dice and automatically set it to 1, effectively removing that dice from being useful (Unless you have a special ability that lets you increase sets value by removing dice and roll really damned well)

Another idea for a scenario is an attack/defence thing revolving around a lighthouse. Smuggler gangs murdering lighthouse keepers happened, but it might be that the lighthouse keeper is crooked and the other gang is defending their asset. Or you could add in another option, for lawman/militia gangs defending the coastline, could add an interesting bit of variety. And they could still benefit from getting loot, finders fees or confiscation of stolen goods, etc etc.

Totally throwing that on the complication chart.
So far I've got three 'quick play' scenarios in mind I'm going to put in the book to help people learn:
>A claim on the Brandy Hole
Basic combat rules, based around two gangs trying to reclaim goods from the same bolt hole, teaches fighting, dragging goods, climbing, damaging goods and use of token pools.

>The wreck of the Prince Spartan
Slightly more advanced, based around two groups of smugglers that were getting drunk in the same bar and both witnessed the same wracking, can be forced to work together to overcome the crew and split the goods or can betray each other. teaches bribery, timed objectives, group actions in the form of rowing out to the wreck, environmental effects, character effects and NPCs

>When the excise man comes calling
Most advanced Skirmish, four way combat between a group of smugglers that’s been trapped by the excise men in an inn where they’re keeping goods who need to escape alive, a pack of corrupt guards that are keeping contraband in the same inn who need to destroy the evidence they were smuggling, the excise men who want to find the evidence and trap the smugglers and the belligerent patrons of the tavern that don’t like the excise men intruding on their watering hole, teaches advanced use of skills and terrain, how to handle cross objectives, sneaking away from the fight and that sometimes you need to make a break for it and abandon the cargo/destroy the evidence.

I could easily change the last to a lighthouse though.
But, I'm also planning to include a chart for sudden complications as I mentioned above, things like a storm suddenly rolling in, or guards stumbling across your rugby scrum of a fight as a wild card third group that'll be fairly well armed and aim to take in as many alive as they can.

While I think all that and procedural scenarios sounds good, you'll also want some premade scenarios, if only to show people how things should look and work, as well as for having variety if you want to exhibit your game, or if people just want to play something a bit more structured for a change.

I do really like the idea of the various objectives, areas and events being procedural and that driving a lot of interesting gameplay, but there are also things you can do in a structured scenario that you couldn't really accomplish via RNG in the same way. By all means, try the new and cool thing, but I wouldn't neglect having a solid stable of prewritten scenarios alongside that.

Although, a lot of what you're describing sound like it'd require pretty complex maps, multi-room fights through an inn or requiring to have a beach with enough room to sail out to a boat. How do you intend to make this easy for people to actually play? Printable flat terrain with guidelines for proper size and distance?

Printable flat terrain with guidelines. 28mm models with each inch being ~5 ft. So a major cargo ship was, historically, ~160 ft tops (Amsterdam which was wracked off Hastings is my example)
Meaning about 2.5 feet long. assuming a 4 foot by 4 foot board (Which is the average for say, Malifaux) it shouldn't be too hard to knock that together and then have it be ~100 feet (20 inches) out at sea from the beach in the water.
Though, I'd wager with it being a Kickstarter attempt most the people that'd be at all interested in donating would be fairly hardcore wargamers anyway, though I also don't plan to just bank on that.

I do see your point about prewritten scenarios. Shoot, I could do a book of prewritten scenarios (Or at least ideas for them)
Basically the two major factors I loved in Mordheim back in the day that are inspiring me were the fact it was generally procedural, that the madness came from 'Oh shit, something just burst into flame and a ghost appeared' gameplay, with all the fun that ensued, and the verticality of maps.

Though, printable flat terrain to get people started included in the books would also be a bloody sensible idea.

The lower you can make the barrier to entry, the better.

Hell, if you're doing a kickstarter you should have a print and play scenario ready to go, freely available on your project page. Cut out tokens for two gangs, a set of simplified rules and a couple of scenarios to run through, along with maybe a few terrain pieces, tokens and shit. Having proof of concept like that really helps build confidence in a game, even if someone doesn't play it.

Only problem with that is I'm an absurdly broke poorfag and that'd require paying someone to do the tokens for the gangs.

Then again I could just throw some scenarios together as writing only scenarios, that'd certainly prove the concept and show some decent faith even without images to go with it. Hopefully at least.

Thanks for the advice user, I really appreciate the feedback you're giving.

I'm hoping to kickstart a few games myself, so I've taken a lot of time to research and observe Kickstarters and how they succeed and fail.

One really, really big thing? You Need nice art assets. It's basically necessary. I can count the number of Kickstarters I've seen succeed without them with the fingers of one hand. It might seem petty, but some pictures that capture the tone of the game and convey it to people are vital for drawing people in and getting them interested.

They don't need to be super high quality, but you need to find an artist whose style is appropriate to the game if you do go for someone on the more amateur end, that kind of thematic link can make less good art less of a problem. But either way, it's going to cost you money. Don't go into Kickstarter thinking you can just press go without putting some investment into it beforehand, because that just doesn't work.

Still, there are options for getting art with less cost. Talking to friends and seeing if anyone you know knows any good artists, or does it themselves, or even poaching particularly talented drawfags from the threads on Veeky Forums or elsewhere. But however you do it, you really, really need to do it if you want anyone to notice your game. It kinda sucks, but the research I've done shows just how important it is.

Pondering it, there might actually be an alternative in your case, if you can make it work. A lot of really old artwork is public domain. If you can find some cool, old school era appropriate depictions of smugglers, woodcuts or old prints or some such, that might work as a stopgap if you can't get decent art to represent a thing. It's not as good as original assets though, and you'll need to doublecheck and make sure nobody has those pieces under any sort of license or ownership.

Such is life, I'll have to look into it as best as I can.
There are some fantastic old woodcuts out there of smugglers. I'll have to tap my friends to see if any of them can art ala pic related.
In other news
>Cotton bags made into the shape of the crown of a hat, a cotton waistcoat, and a cotton bustle and thigh pieces carried in all 30lbs. of tea.
Makes you proud to be British really.

Honestly, that sort of artstyle could really work. It's distinctive and visually clear but not overly complex. The kind of thing a competent artist could bash out relatively quickly, although finding someone with the right style and the willingness to take on a potentially large project for a reasonable rate is the trick. Still, I'll wish you the best of luck with it.

And we really are crafty bastards, aren't we?

The most devious. Right then time to go looking for artists and finish the chapter on difficult terrain.
If this ever does come through, feel free to pirate a copy, you've given me some bloody good ideas and you deserve to enjoy it for that man.

If you make it to Kickstarter, I'll be one of the first folks to back it. I'm always happy to support other independent creators, and crowdfunding is giving us a load of great games that might never have come to exist otherwise. It might be a gamble, but I think it's worth throwing money at it anyway, at least when I've got something to spare.

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