I got a couple of questions about the armor the Sisters of Battle wear
1. How good is it in comparison to the armor of the Space Marines
2. Where are they getting it all from
3. Why aren't the Imperial Guard being given something like it to outfit their special forces in?
1: About the same, smaller, no black carapace so the interface isn't as good.
2: Ecclesiarchy has deep pockets.
3: Because it's expensive as shit and if you don't have daddy church to buy you some you're only gonna get it by being a rogue trader or inquisitor.
1. Pretty close actually, in table top rules it's the same
2. The church pays for their entire existence
3. The sisters are the female equivalent of the marines. They have better equipment than everyone else, and are much fewer in number than the guard.
Both SoB and marines are basically child soldiers that are better than everyone else around them. They are the best of the best of the best
Fluff-wise I think it could be said that the armor is just as good as a Space Marine's in terms of protection, but the Sister isn't as physically strong because she's a normal person under the armor while the Marine is a superman.
And as to the other questions, presumably it's down to economics. The Imperial Guard probably do have the resources to field power armor, but they'd rather spend that money on fielding way more Guardsmen and vehicles.
After all, petty grimdark bullshit aside they're all on the same team. If there's any situation where power armored soldiers of any kind are more useful than the equivalent cost in Guardsmen (and it's expensive as hell, so you're talking a lot of Guardsmen), then there are already Space Marines and Sisters of Battle to call.
>1. Pretty close actually, in table top rules it's the same
Isn't it generally a bad idea to apply tabeltop mechanics to fluff lore, and vice versa?
Space Marines are nowhere near as durabel in Tabletop as they are in lore and a guardsman with a flashlight actually has a chance to kill one.
You probably could've just asked this in 40k General.
These.
To elaborate:
1. In rules no difference (though under 2E's original rules which included different levels of environmental protection, probably a difference, not that they existed back then)
In practice, a real-world difference would be significant. They appear to have similar power plants - the marine version is larger, but so is the marine carrying it, and by extension so is his armour. Because square-cube law, the marine's armour could even be more power-efficient and it would still only permit the wearer to do the same as a Sister for the same energy expenditure. Marines are, even at a manlet 7 feet, significantly massier than normal humans, and require significantly more surface-area protection; but Marines are also called upon to do totally insane things, day in day out, without rest, forever; in practice the armies of the Ecclesiarchy probably rest between battles. Marines don't (and in some cases don't need to rest at all because their marine-nuts are fucking broken).
As far as environmentals go, Sister armour is likely on a par with a heavy void-suit - capable of withstanding low-velocity debris impacts and therefore light arms fire with ease. It's worth noting too that the design of the helm echoes much later advances in the Astartes power armour program, specifically neck/head protections that deflect incoming fire much more readily, so in practice (given that the armour was inherited from the Frateris Templar), the armour likely represents a compromise on cost (marine armour is impractical for the millions of Ecclesiarchy goons) but also takes advantage of advances that haven't yet made their way into the heads of the small-time producers of marine armour, who still use older patterns because daddy done did it that way.
2/ Basically.
3/There would be something on the order of tens of millions of Sisters at the most, but even a hundred million would still be orders of magnitude fewer than the number of known Guard.
I tend to think of it as being about on a par with Thunder Warrior armour. Maybe it's not all-powered, just enough that it counts.
>Space Marines are nowhere near as durabel in Tabletop as they are in lore
That is a TT conceit, along with the proliferation of weapons that render a 3+ save meaningless.
Aren't the new Storm Troopers given armor on par with the Sisters?
No, carapace armour is not power armour.
>The Imperial Guard probably do have the resources to field power armor
Doubtful.
Just because you can build a thousand pistols does not mean you can build a single fighter jet.
No, but you can pay for one.
Acquisition and logistics in the Imperium aren't about money, they're about bureaucracy and organizational-power.
No unit in the guard, not even the most special of their forces, is rated high enough for power armor.
I mean, given the number of Rogue Traders with power armor, it would definitely seem that you can just throw a large amount of money around and get some. It's just that Guardsmen are not special enough to be worth the expense.
Even with 40k levels of bureaucracy, the Guard is part of the Imperium and the Imperium can build power armor. Keep in mind the Mechanicus don't issue it to their troops either, despite definitely being able to produce it.
The Guard get their stuff from the Adeptus Mechanicus, so they definity could have Power armor if they wanted it
but there is really no point, it's a much more cost effective to send a million Guardsman with Flak and Lasguns then it is to go to all the trouble of making Power Armor just to outfit a few normal humans with it
>though under 2E's original rules which included different levels of environmental protection, probably a difference, not that they existed back then
They did. There was no difference in 2E. But at that time sisters were monsters, half-way between regular humans and space marines, being T4 I4.
Still, in the rpg, SoB armor is one step below marine armor, but is the best non-astartes armor you can get without going mini-dreadnought connected to a powerplant. They also get some nifty targeting and auspex systems.
Sisters and stormtroopers hail from the same place, tho.
Some officiers have power armor. But who's gonna equip a squad with power armor instead of raising one additional regiment, or simply giving bolters to everyone? that shit is so expensive that not every inquisitor has them.
>The Guard get their stuff from the Adeptus Mechanicus
Not necessarily. For example Vostroya equips its guardsmen, and isn't a forgeworld.
true but in general most Guard stuff is from a local Forgeworld
>Sisters and stormtroopers hail from the same place, tho.
Incorrect. They receive their initial training from the same organization. As do the Commisariat. They don't get Power Armour either. Not even the Colonels. Reason? The easy answer, numbers. The slightly harder answer, Baneblades.
See where the Guard put their budget?
>Incorrect. They receive their initial training from the same organization.
But that's pretty clearly exactly what he meant, since he was arguing the idea that Sisters were somehow superior to Stormtroopers sans equipment.
Guard actually wears armor that is common to their world, according to GW.
It's why Catachans don't wear a lot of flak, for example, or why Vostrayans or Praetors wear dfferent gear.
In TT, 5+ means you can take a hit, but not a big hit.
>See where the Guard put their budget?
I think an imperial guard commanding officier gets paid enough to buy power armor on his own funds. Not to mention that some of them hail from filthy rich aristocratic families.
It's just way more convenient to buy a refractor field instead, and be actually able to sit.
Still, it was an option in the rpg.
Ever notice how catachans without shirts get the same 5+ as cadians with actual armour?
cadians don't have abs
they shed them as adults as part of an adulting ceremony
abs can be easily corrupted by the Prince of Pleasure, Cadia must not have abs if it is to withstand Chaos
fpbp
>Incorrect. They receive their initial training from the same organization.
Can sisters come from other places besides the Schola?
Will the Schola take non-children students?
>Can sisters come from other places besides the Schola?
Technically, yes, but the vast majority do come from the Schola.
>Will the Schola take non-children students?
Newp.
>>Will the Schola take non-children students?
>Newp.
You haven't read the Dark Heresy rulebooks, have you?
The Storm Trooper advance class states that Scholas will sometimes take adult students in extreme cases (such as an Inquisitor telling them to do it)
So for the most part newp.
The fluff exists to serve the tabletop, not the other way around.
>1. How good is it in comparison to the armor of the Space Marines
Roughly comparable, with two main, and key differences.
First, it's smaller, and the wearers aren't superhuman monsters, they are normal, albeit physically trained and buff as fuck humans. It's likely lighter by a matter of magnitudes, most likely it has a far weaker power supply, and is a bit thinner. There might also be a few fiddly bits missing, but that's more the next point.
Next, the Black Carapace. This is what makes the armor fit the whole "Second Skin" schtick. Without the black carapace, you are very much wearing a large pile of metal/ceramite. Further, a number of subsystems, many of which are likely tied to making a guy who has lost 80% of his blood not die, require it.
The best way I could think to describe it, SoB basically wear low-tech Scout armor, very roughly speaking.
>2. Where are they getting it all from
Unlike the Space Marines, who have to figure out how to make most of their shit themselves with what assets and skills they have, or else bargain with people who do, the Ecclesiarchy has basically the entire God-Emperor fearing emperium to extract funds, supplies, and generally whatever the fuck they want, and combine that with the fact that likely the most troublesome part of the armor to supply, the enhanced cybernetics and power supplies, are basically gutted, and you have a high production potential.
Plus, the armor may well survive better than the Sister wearing it, so one suit of armor may well be refurbished for two-or-three battle nuns.
>3. Why aren't the Imperial Guard being given something like it?
Numbers. Remember when I said limitless production? Okay, I lied. There very much is an upper limit on what can be produced, and there are a LOT of guardsmen.
Also, remember that the Sisters are ripped as fuck, and willing to do crazy shit. It may well be that the average guardsman isn't strong enough to wear the armor, and lacks the dedication to become so.
>The best way I could think to describe it, SoB basically wear low-tech Scout armor, very roughly speaking.
But Scout armor is unpowered and provides less protection, so that's pretty inaccurate.
Most people who know 40k know it from video games. The lore has surpassed the table top
>Isn't it generally a bad idea to apply tabeltop mechanics to fluff lore, and vice versa?
you can use it in a generalised way. you just can't get super specific. So you can look at SoB and Marine power armour having thensame save and reasonably take that to mean they are near enough the same in the amount of protection they offer.
I'm a little iffy on using Ascension for anything fluff-related, since they had to push things a lot to justify having playable Temple Assassins and such.
>Also, remember that the Sisters are ripped as fuck, and willing to do crazy shit. It may well be that the average guardsman isn't strong enough to wear the armor, and lacks the dedication to become so.
You don't have to be muscular to wear power armor, that's why it's called POWER armor, because it can power itself. That being said, yes, your average Battle Sister is a significantly better combatant (as well as more loyal) than your average guardsman, and thus it's more worth giving them power armor.
So do SoB have better armor because they don't have extra organs and bones and shit?
Or do they have extra faith-magic like a wagh effect.
According to FFG rich officers can buy power armour.
According to GW armour from the dark age of technology can be purchased by the insanely rich. So I don't see why power armour would be off the table.
I play 2 command squads of these guys, they have a +4 save as opposed to a +5 save a guardsmen. It's nice but I rather have 2 wounds.
>(given that the armour was inherited from the Frateris Templar)
Actually, the armour is unique to them. They had it even when the Frateris Templar was a thing, as they were still the elite troops even then.
Mechanically speaking, they have better armor because they're meant to be a "middle ground" between Guard and Space Marines. They possess the arms and armor of Marines, and although they lack the enhancements and gene mods, they can be fielded in much greater numbers. IIRC, the Sisters of Battle outnumber Space Marines thousands-to-one. Their superior numbers and Acts of Faith allow them (in theory at least) to stay competitive with the likes of Space Marines without resorting to gene mods and such.
I'd recommend checking out Blood of Martyrs sometime, it does a really good job explaining all this stuff. You can find a link to download it in the 40k RPG General.
There has never been an exact number given but the current index says they were "recruited by the million" when they were first formed.
they have faith magic.
Also the extra organs and reinforced bones and stuff marines have is represented by their higher Toughness, not their save.
Shit, it IS unpowered, isn't it? Well, terrible description then, my bad.
>1. How good is it in comparison to the armor of the Space Marines
Similar level of protection but Sisters aren't superhuman warfighters, so the kind of penetrating hits that would only wound a Marine are far more likely to kill a Sister. Sisters are also far more encumbered and less mobile then a Space Marine in powered armor thanks to the Black Carapace letting them move in it like a second skin.
>2. Where are they getting it all from
Forge Worlds. The Ecclesiarchy is also a central Imperial institution and has alot of both money and power to equip its militant arm.
>3. Why aren't the Imperial Guard being given something like it to outfit their special forces in?
Lack of supply and too much potential demand. While not the most expensive thing to make powered armor is both complex and labour intensive to manufacture. A factory run by tech adepts can instruct workers on how to make flak armor and Lasguns by the truckload, in fact most notable planets supply their Guard regiment tithes with minitorum standard arms and armor manufactured on world. Compare that to the creation of power armor and bolters, which is a Forge World cottage industry run by techno artisans who make them in small batches. This is compounded by the fact power armor is also much harder to maintain then flak, you need special training to work on servo motors and hydralics systems, and the logistics to even acquire the spare parts necessary for that repair are a bitch. While a competent soldier alone can apply a patch kit and a prayer or replace a broken plate himself.
I think the witch hunter codex goes full retard on SoB numbers and lowballs them to the point marines outnumber them.
It's a result of limiting SoB convents to Terra and Ophelia, and the orders to the 6 mains. Despite the presence of other convents and orders in the fluff.
At the other end we have the "every shrine and church in the imperium is attended by at least one sister". To put it into perspective, that would make something like 500 millions SoB on current day earth.
GW can't into numbers.
Nah, it was the 2nd edition codex which first stated sisters were small and decreasing in size army.
1. fluff wise it's less protective, has much less integrated systems in it, and an helmet is issued only to "veteran" sisters, or on special missions i guess. plus the sisters not having a black carapace have not the same degree of control
2. they were commissioned by gorge vandire, they are meade on several forgeworlds with ties t the ecclesiarchy
3. special forces inquisitors, high ranking imperial officers may wear power armor sometimes.
>not that they existed back then)
come on now, you are still using those same miniatures too.
>Are people allowed to run red lights?
>Yes, because cops do it occasionally
shut up faggot
>1
Power armour is power armour, the difference is how well the user can interface with it. Adepta Sororitas, Inquisitors and anyone else using power armour wears a bodyglove thing to allow them to use it, whereas Astartes have the black carapace to allow them to use the armour to it's fullest extent.
Essentially they have the same ballistic or melee protection, but marines can run around, jump and whathaveyou much better than anyone else.
>2
The Ecclesiarchy has loadsamoney. And with loads of money comes the ability to make nice with the cogboys for the best gubbinz.
>3
Because every single suit of power amour is a priceless artifact that requires huge resources to build, use and maintain. The guard are much more pragmatic than the church, so they spend their money on tanks rather than making worse versions of spehss mehreens because there's just about nobody in the guard worth it.
SoB existed as a concept almost day one. It was only in 2nd right after GSC the SoB got their first codex.
So yah, that guy is retarded
What they lack in black carapace and geneseed they make up for in psychic-enhanced fanaticism protecting and empowering them.
Video Games are bad amd you should feel bad
>Sisters and stormtroopers hail from the same place
Scholas train only imperial orphans, and even then not all of them.
Ecclesiarchy doesn't much like relying on someone else to prep their pet zealots. Monastery worlds are a thing. Also, most convents do their own recruiting, usually there's church orphanage/military school run by retired sisters whereto all particularly promising girls from nearby systems are gathered to be raised to burn things for the Empra.
>3. Why aren't the Imperial Guard being given something like it to outfit their special forces in?
Hotshot lasweapons and plasma guns are more important, in the grand scheme of things
Not only can a stormtrooper be expected to maintenance and equip every piece of his equipment alone, they're also going to take up less space and less weight in the various fast-response vehicles they'll be frequently riding in.
Power armour would only make them worse at their jobs.
I could have sworn they came in with 3E, or very late 2E
mine misteke
Feels like it would still be essentially the same design the Frateris Templar were using.
Sorry bud but the 40k lore has surpassed TT and many fans never played the miniatures game and never will
It would still be possible if you don't assume every sister is a Battle Sister.
The Orders Famulous, for example, are supposed to be looking in on countless worlds. Even one to a planet - which for their kind of eminence gris/educator/nice-girl-to-marry-into-the-family-and-fix-things role would probably be next to useless deployment - would still put the (smaller) Orders Famulous numbers in the millions. When you count the Hospitallers and Dialogians as well, there must be tens if not hundreds of millions of noncombatant sisters (though in theory they could all still be mobilized, and you'd probably be unwise to assume Granny Dialogus doesn't have a bolt pistol in that liberry of hers).
The main problem we know they'd run into quickly is simply keeping track of them all. Terra can't even keep track of all the Space Marine Chapters - to the point that "lost" Chapters like the Lawful Evil Raven Guard From the Outer Dark show up after centuries without a peep (which should be impossible if they're still getting Techmarines trained, for example) doing just fine, or possibly better than fine.
The Guard has the same problem - it's stated over and over that nobody knows how many guard regiments there are at any given time; but probably you can't even go back through the archives of, say, a century in the past from any given point and say "x many regiments with y serving troops" because the records are...not great. We in 2018 are now hitting the cusp of what the Imperium and other human civilizations have long feared as Abominable Intelligences, so they do everything they can on paper and leave the rest to magical slave-machines that need to be regularly placated with prayer.
For the Sisters to number hundreds of millions isn't unreasonable; the two convents must be full of invalided Sisters taking on noncom duties, while the smaller outposts could easily outnumber the Space Marines 10 to 1 without anybody noticing.
Whatever works best for their man faced tranny aesthetic
> Game>Lore
So what you're saying is that an Ork and a guardsman are equal at arm wrestling?
>1. How good is it in comparison to the armor of the Space Marines
Not as responsive or protective, but on par or a bit less than what your average rogue trader or inquisitor gets. AdMech shits all over them though.
>2. Where are they getting it all from
Ecclesiarchy influence/cash
>3. Why aren't the Imperial Guard being given something like it to outfit their special forces in?
It just isn't cost effective, but stormtroopers are still arguably more effective than grunt Sororitas. They kick their teeth in on tabletop that's for sure.
>Are people allowed to run red lights
>Yes, in this specific situations
What the fuck is wrong with you?
...
Here's a better question:
If the Nekrons wants to wipe out all life, why don't they just use a relativistic kill vehicle to target all planets that have life on them, and win forever.
>I'm passing right? Right? Where are you going?
>Maybe I should go back to Grindr
Because there's a difference between "wipe out" and "Harvest"
If a farmer's goal was to simply clear his field of ripe wheat, sure he could just set fire to it, but he wouldn't have harvested a single grain.
yep. Orks look bigger in terms of volume, but aren't any stronger on the average. Their muscle tissue is spongy and less dense than human muscles.
Lore that doesn't match game canon isn't "lore", It's just headcannon.
Just because a large number of people are ignorant of the facts, doesn't make them right. Quite the contrary.
Orks are S4 now user.