What is a good alternative to 5e?

I mean, I feel you. I get you. It's hard to feel like you want to make it harder or whatever and have it all be on you, be it in writing the story or really throwing it at them, but I don't quite get you. Not enough to switch systems.

If you like 5e, if you like the relative simplicity, and the familiarity, stick with it. Make it a toolkit. Adjust things if you have to, but it doesn't sound like you want to do extensive homebrew to downplay the power I suppose. On one hand, sit down and write it the fuck out. Really think about it and make the plot consequences matter. Alternatively, just make the encounters really on the edge of, well, bullshit. Give them a number or two higher than the suggested CR, always attack in groups, make them work for it. Really make it so every combat feels like it's the edge of death just by what's fighting them at their level.

Like 5e? Try doing Tomb of Annihilation with the death curse, or implement it in another setting, and do what I said and just go hard on the encounters. Just roll a d6 for every trap or damage and add it to the damage, or house rule it so that you only get two failed death saves before death instead of one, or that maybe you incur some damage that needs to be healed before you really stabilize someone who already got to 0, I dunno. Just do what little adjustments you can to raise the stakes.

If you really like 5e, stay with it and just adapt, because it can be plenty lethal if you try. Trust me on that.

If you really don't think you can solve it with minor enough adjustments, try going back to AD&D 2e. try WHFRP. Especially that.

You say "different encounter formula" but it really sounds to me like it's solvable by adjustment rather than replacement. What are the exact issues or cases you've had with the players?

Try Myfarog.
It is a lot of fun to play.

C'mon, user. Look at yourself

If you want to venture away from d20, try Zweihander, it is both grim & perilous

Shadow of the Demon Lord.

It's lethal, has level 0 funnel adventures and other fancy stuff. A fucking lot of buttons to press. Modular design. Very simple to understand, especially if you know 5e. I was able to run 4 people, complete newbies to d20, through explaining how the system works and generating characters for all 4 in a little more than an hour.

>players know they have really slim chances of dying

step 1 is get a better DM

You can add to the dcs and what you add to the dc is supposed to either be based of the hit dice of the monster or the difficulty of the situation. The reason why you don't give a +6 bonus is that an attribute being prime only matters for skill checks and not stuff like to hit rolls, also it keeps player bonuses small instead of loading everything into player bonuses

Pathfinder

you really got me thinking, i disliked how the focus was mostly on the character abilities but i have been tuning my ways to challenge them so they have to think of more than what is written on their sheets

not recently but time ago players wanted to take long rest anywhere, so i started ambushing them mid sleep and things like that

My major issue is what i described in the OP and what you said, most encounters aren't all that challenging for themselves, been running curse of strahd and i dont know if my players are clever or what but they could defeat the death house shambling mound and got it easy with other heavy encounters don't know you really got me thinking the issue with 5e now seems smaller

I am the DM, they havent told me that but that is what i feel
If a players says he is or he wants to be an excellent blacksmith how does C&C handles that?

Shadow of the Demon Lord. BEST 5e alternative. The guy who made it worked on 5e.

Is it easy to remove the grim and dark things from sotdl?

>I am the DM

yeah, I realized that before replying.

It doesn't really handle it mechanically (neither does 5E) barbarians of lemuria would probably handle that better since bonuses are attached to skill sets rather than classes and attributes

Ah, okay. Well, luckily I have a fair amount of experience on 5e, and played Curse of Strahd, so I can make a couple suggestions. That really helps things out, I think I get it.

One, if you like the system, if your players like the idea of playing "Dungeons & Dragons", you like the setup, you like your end of the DM stuff, then don't switch systems. Questions of durability, or encounter design, or a variety of things can easily be adjusted. One of the things I love a bout 5e, personally, is that it is simultaneously well-defined and structured while still being relatively d6. You aren't playing Simple d6, you aren't playing 3.5, and you sure as shit aren't playing GURPS. You can adjust.

Two
>Long rest anywhere
Make days count. Put a time limit on it. Someone's dying, or Irina is captured and you care, or something. Narrative instances of immediacy exist and are fairly easy if your group aren't murderhobos. Alternatively (And I strongly suggest this, but maybe it's a bit odd mid-game), make them count equipment, and weight, and rations. Make them hungry. Make them have to eat and travel and camp. Neverwinter Nights 2 was one of my first in-depth exposures to DnD and you could just long rest anywhere and it fucked the design; make them camp places, or get kicked out of town into the wilderness if they try to be hobos, or insist they go to an inn. I haven't had a group exploit it, but make it clear that a long rest isn't just "I wait here for eight hours and I don't piss or eat or anything." Make it clear resting is something. Toss random encounter tables at them, and TONS OF WOLVES AND BAROVIAN ANIMALS AND MONSTERS if they just plop down in the woods. But make them camp and care. Added side effect of party cohesion and roleplaying around the campfire.

>Three
Make the encounters have oddities or wider effects. When I played Strahd, Irina got sucked up out of a church when he came and stole her. I got stuck by fucking lightning climbing over a Druid circle. The Paladin caught lycanthropy when he got fucked up by a werewolf, which irrevocably changed his life (And character arc). Don't just treat your enemies as automatons or pieces in your game; think of what those fights are, what it's like to fight wolves or werewolves or vampires or trying to save some NPC from getting their throat torn out by any of the above. That'll help.

There's a lot to play with, just try and adjust where you can and don't be scared to punish stupid behavior, or attempts to exploit the system. Wizards aren't broken if you aren't on Veeky Forums or have a billion scrolls or whatever; if the party plays as written you should be good. If someone tries to break the system or exploit holes, fill the holes. Fill it all out. Make them sleep, make them real people and not just imaginary masks, make them have to do the things that people do and have them connected to a real world where you can't just do whatever the fuck they want. Even socially, especially in a relatively small valley they can't escape.

Hackmaster

and if you are enough of an experienced player, myfarog

Outgrowing 5e, eh? Sounds like you're ready to graduate to Pathfinder!

Serious answer: Shadow of the Demon Lord. The default setting is grimderp but you can easily substitute your own.

>while still being relatively simple

Screwed that one up, but yeah.

Going outside???

yeah i dont know if i have crossed the line between being dedicated to storytelling and writing and escapism

If you're mostly satisfied with AD&D but want something that is less of a mess, check out Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's technically based on B/X rather than AD&D but it still has the old school charm with rules that are mostly coherent. You will have to get your monster stats from elsewhere or make them yourself, though, because the author is a hipster who insists on there never being "normal" monsters. Some user already did a conversion for it to play more like 5e, give me a moment to look for it

That said, for something closer to 5e, I second the SotDL rec that's been thrown around by some people already.

I agree with him.
look up the lore, the shaddow realm on myfarog makes the best "black forest" map I ever seen.
why exactly don't you like it?

Hmm, actually, looks like I'll be letting you down with that promise since I can only find what I think is an outdated version. If the thread is still up in the morning I'll look for it again and post it

Will wait for it

I'd like to know this as well. The grimdark kinda turned me off Shadow of the Demon Lord.

Yes.

Could you say how one would go about doing that?

>so for challenging the players you need 4-5 encounter

You do realize you're supposed to throw 6-8 encounters at the party per day, right?

Thats a lot of encounters for a more plot driven game dont you think?

You just don't use corruption and the grimdark things. Probably axe all the corruption giving magic too. Nothing in there is essential.

It's really all about how the DM goes ahead to describe things aside from that.

...

Or try WFRP if you don't enjoy ripoffs that are objectively worse than the thing they're trying to rip off.

Runequest and Stormbringer would good alternatives. Characters are absolutely not immortal.

You can even leave the Forbidden tradition. Just come up with alternative spell descriptions that fit the mechanic. Although, my players adored Hateful Defecation.

Insanity and Corruption are a bit tougher mto removem because they affect attrition economy. You are supposed to get Insanity a lot, because there are things that cure it (Priest's Cure for example).

Strangely enough, Corruption can be used as a murderhobo stopper. If your players are that type, they are gonna jump on the Corruption train, for the first time. But then it turns out a sealed anus is a big inconvenience. It becomes easier to die if you have Madness or Marks of Corruption.

Well you only need to houserule if you drop to 0 hitpoint, you die, no death saving throw just straight death
There now you can die like a lil bitch in your game

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e

this

Have you tried throwing stronger and more dangerous encounters at them? More dangerous arenas filled with toxic mushrooms, rooms flooding with stagnant water, goblins armed with rusty blades that inflict tetanus, and so on?

>Please try again.
>Please try again.
>Please try again.
>Please try again.
FUCK YOU KIKE GOOGLE THOSE ANSWERS WERE OBJECTIVELY CORRECT I HOPE YOU GET FUCKING RAIDED BY ISIS.

>FUCK YOU KIKE GOOGLE THOSE ANSWERS WERE OBJECTIVELY CORRECT I HOPE YOU GET FUCKING RAIDED BY ISIS.

The party van is on the way, you fucking robot. Stay put, you constructed piece of silicon and shit.

>I really like 5e but i dislike that players know they have really slim chances of dying
If your biggest gripe about 5e is the overeffectiveness of healing and the overabundance of resources, try the variant rules for rests and healing on pages 266-267 of the DMG, as well as the variant rules for injuries on page 272.
I use them in my game and it has caused my players to take loss of health much more seriously and play more cautiously in general.

Encounters =/= combat

Also I don't see how a game being plot driven determines how often a party should be able to take a long rest

i honestly just came here to say;

if your issue with 5e is it's NOT LETHAL enough that's one of the easier knobs to turn...

if you feel the issue is irreconcilable i guess try Traveller? watch your players faces as they die IN CHARACTER GENERATION!

1) Zweihander is to WHFRP as Pathfinder is to D&D

2) It's not "objectively" worse. It's subjective to your opinion.

3) You're a faggot

5e but with enemies who check for a pulse. Remember taking any amount of damage while at 0 HP inflicts one automatic Death Save failure.

...

>Encounters =/= combat
True in theory but false to all practical purposes. 5e's resource management is built around combat and there are a couple of classes whose resources are practically impossible to deplete out of it, like the battlemaster

I think this is the LotFP thing. Take in mind it was made for the author's table so it has a lot of his weird houserules as well. Off the top of my head, you can safely ignore the thing about shields and everything to do with DCC

Also, you may want to switch the Druid's animal companion to some equivalent of Wildshape. The barbarian's Frenzy I can see being busted at high levels, that's a shitload of extra damage. And to keep with the 5e spirit, disregard the restriction about using no armor and switch it to only being able to Frenzy while unarmored

>doesn't want to to go through the effort of trying variant rules
>willing to go through the effort of mastering a whole new system
Whatever gets you to play different game is good I suppose, but this doesn't seem very logical

It would be easier to switch to another D20 system than it would be to make 5E lethal

Not OP, but chargen takes more than 5 minutes unless you're playing something like a champion, and perhaps even then, which already makes it inappropiate for high lethality in my book. Gritty realism is not meant to make the game harder either, but to stretch it out over longer time periods.

>I really like 5e but i dislike that players know they have really slim chances of dying
Depends entirely on the DM.
You can have a party face a few goblins and if the goblins go first and the DM isn't a retard 4 goblins can easily wipe out a level 1 or 2 party of four.
Players only have a slim chance of dying if you baby the players.

The problem with 5e is that it's incredibly swingy. That deadly party of goblins? They get absolutely destroyed so long as they go last in initiative order and a few can be killed before goblins turn.

The problem with 5e is the whack-a-mole death system. It's a lot like the 'downed' system in lots of co-op video games today. You get shot in the skull with a sniper rifle, but you just fall to your knees, get picked back up, then get shot in the skull again, repeat ad nausem. You have to put a big rubber stamp on it, and say fuck you with a couple other random mooks deciding to shoot at an unconscious body to make sure that you rip up your character sheet.

this
Are you talking about 5e?

>Make ten successful healing checks over at least 10 days to cure the infection
>Or just cast CLW lol

Yeah