Nature is horrifying but beautiful, or beautiful but horrifying thread 2

>I think giant mermaids should be rare, perhaps legendary even?
They'd probably at the very least be so near the coast, though yeah, having them be a rare threat, one only occasionally reported about is probably best

>Or perhaps some other giant monster is the reason why giant ships fall.
Actual sea serpents, krakens, ect, plenty of things a large ship could fall prey to out on the waters

>As for dry land movement, perhaps they just hop around or wait until area floods?
Now that you mention it the banks of rivers probably would periodically flood, massively expanding the mermaid's hunting grounds

But on that note I'm off to bed, night folks

I will keep it alive then, just about to go draw some things.
On different notes I will go into some other horrifying things natural world has to offer (Might work on that mass of species similar to Drakainia, perhaps just in the idea)

So checking the horrifying things nature has to offer...You could combine some traits related to how some insects reproduce with something like lizards or sharks that give live birth and create a monster that is very....odd.
Or you can throw in some mammal and end up with things that are horrifyingly odd - like giant furry or scaly lamia with chitin plates that can reproduce asexually and there daughters are capable of doing that almost from birth, being just smaller copies of the mother...I will draw it.

Trying to come up with good ideas and while doing that I leave a work for new wave of monsters for this setting, this one being based on character from last thread...(My favorite ever dryad/treant)

Given how the main theme of the plane is massive jungle, I imagine there would be huge lakes and rivers instead of seas.
The Amazon regularly floods, covering much of the forest floor with water. I can see that being a thing, except more irregular, driven by random changes in the plane's geometry. Rivers might change place overnight, leaving previously dry areas under water and forcing creatures to cling to trees or traverse between few topographical highs sticking above water to avoid aquatic predators.

Well I think some wild floods, rains and other weathers could make this deadlier, also one more suggestions - diseases? Perhaps even some magical ones (I was thinking like some mutagenic ones that some monsters could carry)

That sounds pretty neat, can't wait to see it. Chimera like lifeforms in this place are probably really, really exotic

Now that I'm thinking about it, it kind of reminds me of the florians from starbound, the tribe of carnivorous, aggressive plant people, just bigger

>I imagine there would be huge lakes and rivers instead of seas
I've been assuming there's at least one or two seas, but yeah there'd probably be a lot of rivers and lakes

>Rivers might change place overnight, leaving previously dry areas under water and forcing creatures to cling to trees or traverse between few topographical highs sticking above water to avoid aquatic predators.
That's a good point, any settlements near water sources are probably built high up

I did not even consider diseases, I do like the idea of most of the ones there being somewhat mutagenic, though the idea some/most of them being transmittal primarily by monster attacks is great. I could see a number of the non-mutagenic ones being fairly fast acting, allowing the predators that carry it to hunt not unlike Komodo Dragons, using the disease in place of venom to weaken prey

I will try to draw some pregnant monster that is mother of an army of daughters later.

As for diseases, perhaps that chimera mother of monsters is related to that disease? Like they have different types based on disease that mutated her

>As for diseases, perhaps that chimera mother of monsters is related to that disease? Like they have different types based on disease that mutated her
That would fit, like they have a mix of a whole bunch of different traits so having some sort of chimera disease would fit pretty well

Thinking about it more, would it be a good idea to have the disease's effect be semi random?

Well some yeah, list of symptoms that could make people into monsters, weaken then, or kill them outright.

Full on monsters should probably be the advanced stages of the disease (and maybe only if the plane's already started corrupting them), though picking up monstrous traits early on shouldn't be out of the question. Weakening and killing people should happen pretty quickly though

Yup. Perhaps make it a bit like dwarf fortress werebeasts? Were bite can infect one and it takes months to settle in and only then does it turn them?
Or perhaps small mutations could help to create the monsters.

Also odd suggestion - why not make this plane devoid of gods and instead have powerful being that are worshiped but not really effected by it?

That works, though maybe it's progressive as well, small symptoms at first and minor transformations then once it settles in full transformation hits them?

>Also odd suggestion - why not make this plane devoid of gods and instead have powerful being that are worshiped but not really effected by it?
One of the previous ideas was the Apex/Hungry gods
The top/higher ranks of the food chain that some people regarded as gods (and may well be but care nothing for worshipers/nonsapient). A semirelated idea I liked is that there are predators strong/big enough to prey on gods and their divine spark sorta gets transferred up as it goes up the food chain.
Maybe have something like that? There are no gods but there are divine beasts that prey on gods and are empowered by doing so

We could treat beasts as old ones like being that just stay there and do there own thing? Just more animal less eldrich horror

Pretty much yeah, things that can reduce even gods to mere prey, uncaring for mortals, even when they get in their way
Just less tentacles and more fang and claw

Last thread someone mentioned ant people/anttaurs, I kinda like the idea, a hive on insect people or a mass of army ants, what do you think is better?

I think a mobile hive/army ants would fit the best, maybe the same size or a bit smaller than humans though?

We could also use wasps? After all some of them are rather horrifying (xenomorph was inspired by tarranrula wasp)
So perhaps one of those too?

Yeah perhaps just giant monsters that are mass of effective animal parts - the ultimate predator perhaps? With some traits that are useless but not stopping the beast.

Wouldn't want to make them just reskinned Xenomorphs though, but if memory serves there is a monster in one of the other monster manuals that's pretty much that

Personally I'd go with smaller ones, kinda like a mix between a wasp and one of those flies that can lay eggs in living flesh

That is not something I considered, the greatest predator is also the greatest chimera

Well no not xenomorphs, no chest bursters instead, something much more effective and horrifying - turning there victims into zombies that are left in safe place to guard the eggs or younglings. Perhaps even combine this with some terrible fungus were these beast getting infected and you got zombies spreading other zombies? (Would fit with the theme of instead of making horror that is half baked, we take one nature has to offer?)

That would be neat yeah, nest is made of fungus covered corpses the young can snack on once they hatch, but the corpses are also zombies

on the note of chimera mega predators - they should probably have some of most powerful traits animals have? Like endo and exo skeletons, but also have more then four limbs, probably multiple legs to accommodate the weight of the creature or extra small limbs or heck - any kind of weapons animals would have to offer.

Yeah, they'd be a mishmash of things but at the same time not from specific creatures so much as it looks like something evolved to have all the things. The specifics I could see varying from beast to beast though

Indeed the top of the evolutionary food chain in a way? Hmm...Perhaps that could work, each beast having traits of one blood line? Like one mammialian monster, one of lizard and snake bloodline (As they are from same ancestor), one dinosaur/bird and one shark?

Probably not a hard and fast rule but yeah, I can see that

Well sharks could be great monsters as they have some great traits - they are rather similar to mammals in some regards and I could see something like a giant shark thing hunting in swamps.

While working on the idea of monsters I want to raise this silly idea of suggesting category of things that are these monster mothers...or chimeras?
Like that zombie eggsacks and things that reproduce sexually to the point where they can take over an area from one individual.

P.S. Failed try at drawing the mix of insects and lizardfolk or alternatively - female lizardfolk that was effected by one of those diseases to become one of the monsters?

While trying to work out best design for the sentient races, have a snake/lizard blood line evolutionary monster - wyrm, two winged snake with a lizard like head with poisonous maw.
Probably one of things that hunt in planes or mountains with constriction and poison.

Another simple monster for the flooded areas:
Possible rival for the merfolk, the sharks and perhaps even small shark folk with tribal attitude, prefering salt water lakes and seas, but some species do reside in rivers as well.
Hunted by merfolk and known to be little relitives of the sleeper shark folk in colder areas.

Possiblely eaten by locals humans and thus do not trust them.

Would have to be some deep swamps

>I want to raise this silly idea of suggesting category of things that are these monster mothers...or chimeras?
I would imagine that would be any monster species to some degree or another, each largely kept in check by things that prey on them, but if there's no predator in the area and plenty of prey they'd expand unending
Or am I misunderstanding you?

>P.S. Failed try at drawing the mix of insects and lizardfolk or alternatively - female lizardfolk that was effected by one of those diseases to become one of the monsters?
I can see it as either/or, though more reptile than insect, still wouldn't look out of place as an encounter though

Looks kinda like a featherless version of some depictions of quetzalcoatl I've seen, guessing it would kinda dive bomb/ambush prey then latch on, constricting it as it's poison takes effect?

Shark mermaids/shark people are a good touch yeah, makes sense they'd be based on ones that live in the ocean but could swim up freshwater streams

>Possiblely eaten by locals humans and thus do not trust them.
I could see them returning the favor at times, making things even worse

Shark mermaids would be interesting sight though I think whale and dolphin merfolk is scary enough, sharkfolk could however vary from place to place, in last thread I left some sleeper sharks, those could be some giant bottom dwellers that prey on random things there and rarely come up, but if they do they would eat humans or monster alike.

Dolphen merfolk would probably be the ones to form tribes and would be a threat for those reasons
Shark merfolk would probably be mostly singular, but on an individual level far more dangerous, likely larger too

depends on sharks - sharks usually are smaller

Here's some creature sketches I did. The humanoid ones on the bottom row are dryades based on sundew (drosera) and pitcher plant (as well as a fairy, but I thik that's pretty obvious).

Point, I was thinking large sharks by default

>dolphin
At first thought those were boats around it, making me think it was some successful

>Other top three
Neat, like the long necked carnivorous turtle and the one of the top right (I forget what they're called) looks cool too. The bottom right one, I'm assuming lives in caves or the like?

Sundew Dryads seem like they'd terrors in a grapple and I figure pitcher plant ones would have a swallow whole ability, I'm guessing their tree in this case is some giant sundew/pitcher plant

Fairy looks oddly satisfied to me, guessing she just had a big meal?

Well that is drosera is nice, I like the concept....just confused why that mouth of first one is so similar to ones I drew (Well great minds think alike.)
And those beasts do look scary.

There's one boat near the "dolphin"/ichtyosaur (it's actually more ichtyosaur than dolphin, given the tail fluke being vertical), to show the scale (it's big). The rest are tree trunks sticking out of or floating on water.
The tree is based on the legend about carnivorous trees in Madagascar (I forget what the actual name of said tree was supposed to be). I also made it mobile, as you it's in the process of uprooting itself and walking to another location.
Yeah, sundew dryad's "hair" (and rest of the body as well) is covered in sticky liquid to trap prey (huge penalties for trying to break free from grapple with her), and pither plant dryad simply swallows her prey whole.

I kind of placed it on the faces of the plant people in...Space-Terraria (forgot the actual name of the game).

So not this....

>The tree is based on the legend about carnivorous trees in Madagascar
I was wondering about that, don't those things like strangle their prey or something?
I only semiremember that myth

>I kind of placed it on the faces of the plant people in...Space-Terraria (forgot the actual name of the game).
Florian or something along those lines I think

Got this while working on disease idea - a cannibalistic mutant chimera with no mouth on the face - instead it has them all over the arms and shoulders and lots of eyes

If I recall the story correctly (or at least the version I read from a magazine printed in the 50s; and yes, the story was known to be a hoax/myth even back then), the supposed man-eating tree would grasp its victims with its branches, stangle them, and stuff them in a mough located at the top, surrounded by the branches. Kind of liek some kind of land-based sea-anemone, except without poison.

Neat
>Faces on the clothes
A nice touch

Huh, don't remember the part with a mouth, thought it just soaked the ground with their blood

Might as well give some fluff for them as well:

>Dragon Turtle
Large armoured reptile that spends most of its time buried in soft mud, often with only the shell which can easily be mistaken for a rocky outcropping, especially as it's usually covered with algae and plants, visible. Once prey gets close enough, it can strike rapidly. Can breathe a spray of causitc fluid as defence or means of subduing troublesome prey.

>Dread Saurian
Large reptilian predator with extremely powerful bite. An active predator that is capable of running at quite high speed to pursue prey.

>River Whale
May not actuall be a whale. A large aquatic animal that lives in large lakes and rivers. Dwelling in murky waters, it is nearly blind but has an excellent sense of smell and echolocation.

>Flying devourer
A primarily nocturnal predator typically found at treetop level. It primarily feeds on smaller flying creatures it catches with its large mouth, but may also attack tree- or ground dwelling creatures if an opportunity presents itself.

>Carnivorous dryads
Plant-based humanoids that supplements their nutrients by eating animals. Different types have different adaptions for hunting.

>Carnivorous tree
May actually be an that merely looks like a plant. Uses its tentacle-like branches to capture prey and feed it to its central mouth. Normally stationary, but can uproot itself and relocate to a more suitable location.

>Carnivorous fairy
Small flying humanoids with sharp teeth, fast metabolism and taste for flesh. Alone they are more of a nuisance, takign small but painful bites from larger animals, but sometimes they can gather in swarms of several hundreds, at which point they can strip a man to bones in seconds.

I like the evil pixies

>Can breathe a spray of causitc fluid as defence or means of subduing troublesome prey.
Breath weapon, nice

But yeah, all those are great summaries of things you might find in this jungle

It's a fun concept yeah, flying piranha pixies just works for some reason

>takign small but painful bites from larger animals,
Rereading this I now have the image of one getting smacked with a flyswatter for some reason

>pastebin.com/jEapPbSX
If this plane is extra dangerous compared to the normal Prime, wouldn't most races band togheter into non-racial tribes?
Even if you're a xenophobic elf, after a few too man close encounters with monsters, you might decide that sharing land with orcs and dwarfs might be better than isolating yourself. Protection in numbers and survival beating off racial prejudice.

Also, can I give an idea on the plane eating souls?

Maybe those souls it eats are what fuels the extra positive energy of the plane, the prey being used in full to make the predators stronger, down to their souls.
Maybe the plane is an experiment by some diety or other epic being to create the perfect predator.

If the plane is alive, it's just digesting it's food to make itself grow. More positive energ, more florest, more the spheroid grows. The plane itself then is a predator kidnapping people to eat them.

Maybe both things are true.

Either way, it explain why people keep getting sucked into the plane, instead of it being self contained. The pseudo afterlife sounds silly.

Basically, there are predators large and powerful enough to reliably take on large settlements/groups, they generally don't actively hunt individuals/small tribes simply because it's not worth the effort, after a certain size though groups/cities start looking like an easy target

That's not to say there probably aren't "tribes"/groups that are multi race, just that they tend to start off mono race and if they grow too big aren't as effective at offering protection. Nor does it mean large cities can't/haven't existed, just that it's very risky and there are currently none, plenty of ruins though

>Maybe those souls it eats are what fuels the extra positive energy of the plane, the prey being used in full to make the predators stronger, down to their souls.
That first bit is sort of what I hoped to imply, but I didn't think about having the predators actually consume souls. Kind of on the fence about it now that you brought it up, I like the idea of some of the larger predators at least being able to do it, but I guess it's sort of would fit if the rest of the food chain could do it to

>Maybe the plane is an experiment by some diety or other epic being to create the perfect predator.
>If the plane is alive, it's just digesting it's food to make itself grow. More positive energ, more florest, more the spheroid grows. The plane itself then is a predator kidnapping people to eat them.
>Maybe both things are true.
Creation of some deity works as a possible origin, though I like the idea at this point in time there's no real evidence one way or the other and that's just another theory. If the plane itself is digesting souls, than that may somehow affect resurrection magic and the like. I do like the implication/theory of both though

>The pseudo afterlife sounds silly.
Yeah, why I didn't try to write anything about it in the write up I did

Possible idea now that I'm thinking about it more, maybe all the beast there can eat souls, but not all of them can really digest them, so some smaller monsters you have to hunt down before you can resurrect anyone they've eaten, while the larger ones leave smaller and smaller windows before it's too late, not to mention the possible complication of said predator getting eaten by something bigger

>Maybe the plane is an experiment by some diety or other epic being to create the perfect predator.
Wasn't there some myth like that, like shove a bunch of monsters in a box, winner takes on traits of all of them?
I think exalted took inspiration from it

>Possible idea now that I'm thinking about it more, maybe all the beast there can eat souls, but not all of them can really digest them, so some smaller monsters you have to hunt down before you can resurrect anyone they've eaten, while the larger ones leave smaller and smaller windows before it's too late, not to mention the possible complication of said predator getting eaten by something bigger
That leaves a window where resurrection is possible without losing the creepiness of soul-eating. I think that's the way to go.

>That leaves a window where resurrection is possible without losing the creepiness of soul-eating. I think that's the way to go.
Yeah, also ironically making running from combat less of a good idea if it manages to kill a PC/allowing side quests where the party can hunt it down before it gets too far if one of them dies

The plane trapping the souls of those who die there and consuming fits with the idea that the whole plane may be a gigantic organism of some kind.
It actually is canonical in DnD that souls who end up in the outer planes eventually became one with the plane and stop existing as separate individuals, so the plane absorbing souls would not be too out there.

We could just have souls get fussed into monsters instead? Like have some beast that is a mass of souls that all become part of some giant network of fungi or stationary animal.

As other said numbers make you more noticeable prey, also some of the things are much more dangerous in groups - including the diseases of mutagenic quality - those would spread quickly and while out a group with ease while turning most of it into monsters or zombies for some beast to lay eggs in.

I don't prefer souls being as... tangible as that. Although some of the most dangerous monsters being able to feed on souls would fit.
Generally, I think that higher up the food chain you go, the more supernatural the beasts become, with the top predators having things like limited precognition, ability to turn invisible, teleportation, or ability to eat souls.

Well perhaps that should be left out for now?
Also I think we should make this into small setting write up (I could refine some of my art to turn it into crude illustrations you would find a journal)
also perhaps list of all possible dangers could help to get idea what needs to be worked on more in detail?

One disease idea:
"The Dark Ooze" - Disease know to spread though infected water and meat.
Those who are infected skin starts to produce sticky poisnous slime of black or green color, while making them go mad.
Eventually this causes new organs to form as well, some useful some hindering creatures lifestyle.
And with time this condition goes worse as there skin takes on a slimy lair and sometimes forms bone or ceratine plates all over the body. Sometimes those driven mad at this stage attack anything on sight.

But worse part is that those who survive with the disease for a year, there mind returns to sane state, but there body remains changed.

But no one is aware of that and thus any infected people are killed in the tribes or run away and hide in wild corners of the forest.

>It's a fun concept yeah, flying piranha pixies just works for some reason
They fit the concept of the plane bieng beautiful and highly lethal, and everything trying to kill you very well, and borrow enough things from actual animals to not seem completely unreasonable (unlike if they were, say, Frakass-style vore-pixies).
They pretty much sound like an unholy combination of hummingbirds, cookiecutter sharks and piranjas. Or those annoying biting flies.

Those fairies are really...good I will use them in my games and yeah them being evil is actually close to most real world myths, I could see those bastards flying around and biting out bits from the people.

Welp if fairy is size of a rat it would need something bigger, like a club or a shovel.

Since people seemed to like the concept of piranja-pixies, I drew some more of the little buggers.

May I draw few variations on those myself?

P.S. Just image from last thread (Thinking what else to add to it)

Komodo dragons don't hunt with disease, that was found out to be false (and didn't make much sense with incubation time in the first place). They have venom glands.

That I do recall, well does not mean we can't make a monster with that ability.

Though their maws are infested with every bacteria from here to the arctic. They eat corpses, it's to be expected.

They have surprisingly clean mouths though, so it's not worse then our mouths most likely.

>May I draw few variations on those myself?
Sure. I hardly own the idea or anything.

Last time I checked, it is actually somewhat unclear how effective the venom actually is.
In any case, even with the bacteria it isn't actually disease that would kill the victim, but blood poisoning caused by the toxins the bacteria produce (think botulin, which is a neurotoxin prodiced by bacteria living in rotten meat) that get into the victim's bloodstream from the bite. This likely still plays a factor in killing the prey.

Here is first sketch of the angrier and more evil version of the fey.

Semi-related to the thread, I did a dketch about a faction in my own setting, which is a group of elves who worship not!Shub-Niggurath as the embodiment of Life, specifically in the kind of "red in tooth and claw" way (endless competition and adaption and constant drive to spread and consume). The eldritch powers of their deity give them a measure of control over the energies of life, allowing their priests and reshape and mould flesh.

Well..I drew few of chimera's of monsterous form that could be called mothers of monsters....perhaps one of more powerful ones is worshiped by similar cult? (Or perhaps the cult is that mothers daughters?)

They could also potentially worship the plane itself, if it is indeed in some way alive (and possibly the stomach of some eldritch being).

Well give me a minute I got this idea for this cult to combine it with few previous ideas

Here sort of odd idea - old statue built by something in the past, now place were bunch of monsteros insects worship this "Stone-Mother" by leaving there eggs and the fungal zombies that protect them in this place.
(Those people at the bottom are from one of my ideas of infested zombies that protect the eggs or young of some species, while they feed on the said zombies)

I could try to make some cult that worship the entities that could be called lesser Shub-Niggurath though, would it fit here?

Also little picture for possible local humanoid species or one that got trapped here and that reside in the swamp hunting down smaller things.

Sorta have it be a more aggressive version of that then? would muck with resurrection spells almost certainly then

As I said before, I do kinda like the idea some beasts can, maybe not all though

I made that pastebin from last threads stuff, you can use that as a base if you want

>But worse part is that those who survive with the disease for a year, there mind returns to sane state, but there body remains changed.
>But no one is aware of that and thus any infected people are killed in the tribes or run away and hide in wild corners of the forest.
Dark, but opens potential for NPCs

About how I figure hitting one would go

I could see casters like that or druids being fairly common and powerful

Don't see why not

I think the thing about druids and that cult, I recall some odd rituals that related to forming one's body and mind, so I could see some evil druids with some dark powers

Keep the thread alive then friends... tomorrow I am making a monstrous entity or person with concept of wild evolution related to then.

Bump for interest

Yeah, what I was thinking, flesh+plant crafting would be common there

That's kind of the core theme of the cultists I posted, and they use a lot of druids and fleshcrafters. I can give a description of the "units" pictured:

>Cultists
Your basic cultists, doing cultist things. Those who have proven themselves worthy may partake in a ritual that involves consumption of a substance called Blood of the Goddess, which either kills them or turns them into satyr-like Favored Ones.

>Protean Monks
Mystics who through intense training, meditation, and regular infusions of small amounts of the Blood have gained the ability to shape their bodies at will. They can stretch their limbs into tentacles, grow wings, and many other things. However, their bodies are in a constant state of flux, which takes its toll on them, and only the most strong willed can keep themselves from eventually devolving into mindless masses of shifting flesh.

>Bloodspeakers
Those responsible for handling the Blood, near constant exposure to the substance has left their bodies twisted and deformed. They are expert fleshcrafters, and able to create chimaeras by combining parts from different creatures, as well as artificial creatures known as blood spawn. The oldest ones are so infused with eldritch power that their spilled blood turns into blood spawns on its own accord.

>Revered Mother
High priestess of the cult, she has bathed in the Blood of the Goddess and survived, proving her divine blessing. She has mastered all the mystic arts of the cult, and the Blood of the Goddess flows through her body, making her closer to an aberration than a mortal.

I could combine blood or milk of some great monster - perhaps a broodmother of some notable species or sub-type of monsters - just wild mindless queen of a hive or perhaps just one of oldest members of the species and she grown giant and accumulated loads of mutations (same way any creature does), and her worshipers are either her children or some cult that just live near her and offer her sacrifices.

(By the way this is interesting blood cult, mind if I borrow concept of bloodspeaker and change the name and make this fleshshaper that creates soldiers from bodies of the dead?)

Not at all.
Both the Bloodspeakers and Protean Monks are based on the specialisations of the "Protean" class I did for 5th edition, except there they were called Broodmaster and Fleshwarper, respectively.
They're probably not strictly speaking a blood cult, as "Blood of the Goddess" is supposed to be just one of the names they refer to a black, oily, mutagenic substance of mysterious origin that has a connection to the eldritch being they worship (it is also called "Milk of the Allmother", but "Milkspeakers" sound kind of dumb).

>Ah well knowing my style of making settings they would end as few of unlikely allies players could get
That's actually not to far from one of the ideas for my setting. They're kind of a distinct group of the other "dark elves" (which in my setting means survivors from the fall of a powerful elven empire that turned to worship of eldritch gods), and although closely allied with them, they have some major ideological differences in how they view the world (basically, the Church of the Audient Void, the ruling body of the "main" dark elves believe the world is a lie created by false gods and seek to unmake it, while the Cult of the Red Queen are fine with the world remaining as it is), which would make it theoretically possible for players to convince them to join forces with them against the rest of the dark elves (because when your enemy is a group that wants to unmake the laws of physics and kill all gods, then the guys who just want to become the ultimate lifeform and maybe sacrifice people to please their goddess seem relatively benign).

Oh sorry deleted that because image was terrible.
(to anyone else, that post talked about how aline and monstrous things like necromancers and mechanical druids could be interesting allies for the players.)

By the way for this setting I kind of want to suggest concept of playing the monsters that are just above humans to see everything from there side of the picture. Also that protein class if fluffed in right way, same for druids and barbarians...And perhaps warlocks in some..invasive parasite manner or symbiots that give power?