Weekend Warcraft Lore General

Controversial /wwlg/ opinions?

>I like the concept behind Goblin Shamans
>I like Void Elves
>Titan/Void Lore from Legion and Chronicles is one of the most interesting stories from wow

I dunno but it's giving me serious Goren vibes. So presumably, we'll be fighting a million of them without every stopping.

easy

>I dislike the concept behind Goblin Shamans
>I dislike Void Elves
>Titan/Void Lore from Legion and Chronicles is one of the least interesting stories from wow

those aren't controversial
It's just that your opinion regarding the middle is shit.

It's not a controversial opinion, it's just bait.

I actually like Sylvanas and I think her villainy is over-exaggerated in these threads. That said I don't want her as Warchief because a Vampire Elf is too incongruous with the overall Horde look to actually be its face.

I don't want to see her get killed because as a Horde player I'm sick of it.

The last ten OPs before this one were
>A goblin
>A Dark Iron dwarf
>Three blood elves
>Two trolls
>A bunch of different races cooking
>Cho'gall
>A map
The fact that you get triggered by people trying to make passable-looking gnomes and goblins is no one's problem but your own. Now relax.

this is why I said it's controversial

1) She's not a vampire. She's a banshee.
2) Large-scale biological warfare is a pretty justifiable reason to get mad at her. The only time it came back and bit her was at Angrathar the Wrathgate, and to this day, that was never confirmed to be her fault directly.

It's not controversial as it's actually an incredibly common opinion

Most hordies think the same on the forums

If you insist. Let's have some real trashy garbage for the sort of edgy teens that will play void elves.

youtube.com/watch?v=Qh-oIlKpsBk
youtube.com/watch?v=IpJkCti8IL0
youtube.com/watch?v=SmEGOiAfsws

Can anyone top these?

He said controversial /wwlg/ opinions, not controversial forum opinions.

>dude, lordaeron belongs to the forsaken.
>the plague is the great equaliser.
>sludge fields is good because farmers deserve to lose everything.
>oh, and the alliance is literally hitler for putting orcs in camps.

>She's not a vampire
I didn't mean she's literally a vampire, numbnuts, but she has a very obvious emogoth vampire-style aesthetic.

ez
youtube.com/watch?v=XOibIxl3dLo

All right, then. Here's a brain-teaser for the thread:

How do you remove Sylvanas Windrunner from power as Warchief without murdering her? By that, I mean remove her from the international scene as permanently as possible, reduced to a complete non-entity and useless to the government and those who follow her. Raid-bossing her is a permissible step in the process, if necessary.

WoD was the first expansion belts weren't just bands of colour, Legion took this a step further. I know a few of my Legion boot and leg transmogs have fiddly bits tacked on as well.

Besides, if graphics were more important than gameplay, there are a million Asian MMOs for you to play.

So what are your favourite little lore tidbits that aren't obvious at first glance? I think mine is the fact that the hot springs in Winterspring aren't actually natural, but are being heated by the demon hellscape left by Archimonde.

The side effects of the firewater also goes some ways towards explaining the way player characters act.

aqir

I distinctly remember a pro-wrestling championship belt in Wrath or Cata, though.

I'll post a few more cause it's fun. Better than more Skubvanas shit.

youtube.com/watch?v=N0-ti7yPHMY
youtube.com/watch?v=wSwewlSkIXU
youtube.com/watch?v=WJoXI0h9UR0

wrong, MoP belts had dingly bits

She gets possessed by an "Old God" TM
Blizzard makes a raid called Siege of New Undercity located in a blighted barrow downs.

After seeing a lot of his fellow druids murdered by the forsaken, Malfurion decided that peace is a good option.

Since Sylvanas is corrupted(tm) she gets uncorrupted and left free.

Baine becomes the warchief.

I actually liked Thrall's arc, leaving the Horde behind to focus on the greater picture and later having to deal with the effects of his departure

>How do you remove Sylvanas Windrunner from power as Warchief without murdering her
Easy, just make a Naa
>By that, I mean remove her from the international scene as permanently as possible, reduced to a complete non-entity and useless to the government and those who follow her
whoa, aren't you getting a little bit too excited?

Chemical warfare, inflicting the curse of undeath on people and abusing the player's hard work in Stormheim is enough for me to hate her.

>Baine becomes the warchief.
I'm not okay with this

I was doing Timbermaw quests fairly recently, and I remember that Firewater was made from fel from Felwood purified by water from said hot springs, so you are wrong about them being unnatural (or at least heated by Archimonde's leftovers).

>he doesn't want the fire to rise

She goes over the edge and absolutely everyone realizes it the moment it happens.

She orders something deplorable, on the same scale as the destruction of Theramore or worse. The vast majority of the Forsaken immediately nope out and stop obeying, every other faction leader in the Horde immediately unite to demand that she steps down and that they won't let another Garrosh happen and pretty much the entirety of the Horde loses any trace of respect for her.

She is forced to back down, go into hiding and effectively leave the Horde behind with the sect of loyal Forsaken she has, either humbled by her defiance of the Horde or outraged to the point of insanity by it.

The problem with Thrall's arc was its execution, in part. Don't foget the questline where Fandral splits Thrall into four pieces and scatters him to the four elemental planes, and you have to follow Aggra around and put him back together. When you do it, Thrall proposes to Aggra underneath Nordrassil, and all the Dragon Aspects and Jaina clap for him.

People DESPISED that quest chain because it was so aggrandizing for Thrall and Aggra that it became insufferable.

Of course, a select few people also hate Aggra herself for sinking the Thrall/Jaina ship, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

>The vast majority of the Forsaken immediately nope out and stop obeying,
lol

"To tell you the truth, although there are no volcanoes here in Winterspring, I believe that there are far more threatening reasons for these hot springs...

Well, I think you'll want to see it for yourself. You'll need to travel the length of Winterspring, and head to the very south. When the air becomes thick and muggy, and the sky turns dark, you'll have found what I believe to be the source of the hot springs.

Have a look. I'm sure you'll have many questions when you return." - Donova Snowden

We already know from the pre-BfA novel that we are at the point where many of the Forsaken are now openly questioning Sylvanas, and it's driving her up the wall.

I remember it was being mixed with stuff from felwood but not sure if it was fel.

Than you got that random satyr as well but its hard to tell were the fits in

Are you ignoring the fact that in the latest lore, there's a council of Forsaken with a prominent presence and a fair bit of power in the Undercity who really dislike what Sylvanas did in the Broken Isles and want her to answer for her actions?

is the novel out yet?

>Of course, a select few people also hate Aggra herself for sinking the Thrall/Jaina ship, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish

Are there still people left who do this
I once saw a fanmade comic wherr Jaina lost her shit and killed Thrall
Would be nice if something like that happens just to fuck more with those shitty shippers

There are still people who want this, yes.

Some people never give up hoping.

So what are magical items anyway (basically green and up) in lore.

Items of exceptionally high quality or otherwise infused with magic. Same as most tabletop, my dude.

They're called cucks

High quality weapons and armor that may or may not be infused with magic. You can usually tell from their appearance.

Huh, interesting.

The water's not inherently evil, though potentially it was heated by felfire long ago, it needed a rinse with fel ichor from felwood to get really bad.

So why are they cucks, user?

The only good part of that questline was the fire split where he's raging and wants to murder everyone

Aggra was also hated for the way Thrall's arc evolved around her with the Go'el shit because it went entirely against everything that he had going for him beforehand that people liked.

Yeah, that was a bit much, it was almost cute and emotional but just didn't work out. Thrall became too important and it hurt his character I think.

I liked Thrall and Jaina having a "never could be" type thing, but it's clear that shit has sailed, sank and then been raped by a kraken at this point.

Why not? It would go a long way to reduce RvB tensions like back in Vanilla, until it's revealed Anduin is possessed by Old One spunk and goes insane and Baine has to lead the Horde to take him down in a shitshow reversal of Siege of Orgrimmar.

Personally I hate Aggra for being an awful harridan who was constantly berating Thrall and systematically pruning everything human out of his identity, when the whole POINT of Thrall was that he combined the best of the human and orcish ways of thinking.

I liked the Air split's fight too but it's been years since I played it so I don't remember if I'm just imagining the danger of being pushed off the platform

>Why not

Not him but I know a lot of Hordies aren't fond of Baine because of "Taurajo was a valid military target" and stuff.

To be fair that whole deal was kind of a retcon that doesn't actually gel with how Southern Barrens is presented in game in order to make Garrosh look more like a dick and to have Jaina's "fall" be more tragic.

Baine has no real personality, something even Sylvanas has for him. He's a nice guy and the closest thing left to an OG Horde leader. But I think it's safe to say a lot of his popularity owes itself to Batman memes.

So Goldshire is a valid military target?

I'm clearly missing a part of this as killing a town of civilians just outside the capital in a surprise attack seems pretty horrible.

"It trained Horde hunters" was the logic.

It's a bit of strained logic, yes, but like I said, retcon to make Garrosh seem more dickish.

Nice and well defined.

I like it.

Nobody cares about "Taurajo was a valid military target", they care about Baine apparently running an Orwelian state on Thunder Bluff where if anybody says something bad or wants to hurt the Alliance, they get banished.

Golden wrote that Baine exiled any Tauren who wanted to attack the Alliance in retaliation for Taurajo.

He's a fucking Alliance sympathizer. And I don't want a repeat of SoO in any shape or form.

I don't think I read that.

Lol, he's not an OG by any means. He was a faceless NPC in Vanilla. At this point, the only OG left in the Horde is Sylvanas.

>literally rescue him in the TFT campaign for the horde.
>not an OG

Happened in early Tides of War.

"Those who disagreed with Baine’s decisions, like many Grimtotem, or the tauren who chose to strike back at the Alliance from Vendetta Point, were expelled from Thunder Bluff but otherwise suffered no repercussions"

>"Remember everybody, the Alliance are a faction of peace"
>"I think you are wrong"
>"Leave your home now, but no other repercussions teehee I'm a just ruler :)"

I'm honestly not sure if Golden was too stupid to grasp the implications of what she wrote in her efforts to make the Theramore attack seem unprovoked or not.

The Horde does consider pretty much every able adult a warrior (not the class), so the distinction between civillian and military holdings are a bit blurred. Especially since Taurajo DOES have a history of training and outfitting warriors. It's a very, very grey area.

You really gotta feel for the guy who did the attack, though. His orders came from "on high", so he didn't have any choice in the matter. Even then he skirts his instructions in order to give the civillians a chance to flee, but unknowingly just funnels them into quilboar territory. In addition to this, he's saddled with undisciplined prisoner conscripts who take the first chance they get to split off to loot and pillage, murdering anyone in their way. And then to top it off, his subordinate is informed of a plan to assassinate him, but doesn't pass it on and gets him killed because the subordinate wants the war to escalate.

Southern Barrens was a shitshow.

Southern Barrens is the only time the faction war was done right.

Every other time it's just "The Horde is evil except a couple times the Alliance is randomly evil in order to make a race go Horde".

So how are you folks feeling about the new Capital cities for the factions? Zuldazar, or Freehold? Which resonates with you more?

youtu.be/IpIhKT30q8o

youtu.be/vw9ZI5WSN0c

Zuldazar, it's not even a question.

Sounds like he got screwed, which sucks. It doesn't bring back dead tauren though!

This sounds amazingly stupid.

I'm starting to think the books hurt the lore more than help. Though I'm curious to go talk to the Vengance Point folks again, will have to go later tonight.

>I'm clearly missing a part of this as killing a town of civilians
They're supposed to flee to the nearest castle.

>I'm starting to think the books hurt the lore more than help

The first wow book I read was war crimes.
I vowed never to read another book written by Christie golden again

Zuldazar by a fucking mile, Kul Tiras looks alright, but the Chadalari blow it out of the fucking water.

>"Leave your home now, but no other repercussions teehee I'm a just ruler :)"
They weren't exactly banned from Mulgore as a whole.

...What if the reason for the Tauren not caring about Teldrasil burning down is the Centaur the Cenarions help unite in Cata Desolace invade them and they leave the order because of that?

I really don't get the point of making that distinction. Mulgore is still Tauren land, what the hell is he doing by just banning them from Thunder Bluff?

"I just don't want to look at you?"

Well I sure hope they leave then

That would be just a pointless, hamfisted explanation shoehorned in, trying to bridge retcons before its retconned out itself.

Imagine if Edwin put more thought into his rebellion. Sure, he was angry, but what was he hoping to accomplish? One ship, even as big and powerful as that dreadnought, wouldn't do much to Stormwind, who presumably had a fleet of its own.

Defias screwing over common people made little sense... yet, it hurt Stormwind a little, but made him pretty similar to the nobles who kicked Stonemasons out of Stormwind.

He had vast collections, all over the kingdom, between nobles, with goblins, with savages like gnolls. He certainly had organisation talent. He had friends among Stormwind intelligence service.

If he used the manpower to do what his daughter did years later... if he talked to the people of Westfall, Redridge, Duskwood, who were abandoned by Stormwind... he could've turn his rebellion into a revolution.

Stormwind wronged Stonemasons just as it wronged the people in the country. No protection, gnolls stalked the fields, kobolds took over the mines, murlocs plagued the coasts. When the droughts came, did Stormwind lowered the taxes or tried to do anything to help? I doubt it. Edwin could've pointed out all that, and explain that the people didn't needed Stormwind... Stormwind needed them!

He could've turned Defias into army protecting the country when Stormwind's army failed... like Night Watch, like People's Militia. He could've set deals with goblins, to sell the resources for fair price... all right, better price than what they would've gotten from SW....maybe... He could've built infrastructure and defenses. And he could've turned people's anger on their absent king.

Stormwind was to weak to deal with the revolution. Horde would propably support him, to fight proxy war with their main enemy. It would be Independence War all over again... and the countryside would cease being Stormwind's bitch and show is its equal. I thought 'muricans are all over that sort of crap.

Stormwind wouldn't be able to deal with him... he would be turned into martyr, he knew how assassins operate, and he still had friends amongst them. That's what murderhobos were needed in the first place.

It would still keep the Alliance weak, so Onyxia wouldn't mind. Horde would get something between Stormwind and their interests in Stranglethorn and what used to be Black Morass. Goblins would get more trade.

Edwin wouldn't be strong enough to take over Stormwind, but he would still show the nobles not to mess with him. Hell, he can keep the dreadnought as the basis of his new kingdom's fleet. His daughter would have a father

And years later, she would marry Varian's son, for political reasons. Edwin would get the last laugh, and Stormwind would get an assassin-queen, more badass than before thanks to being trained by her father directly

His whole rebellion was manipulated by Onxyia from the start.

It's likely she wanted to keep it as a forever thing, weakening stormwind with neither truly winning until it was time for her to strike.

Blizz isn't really good at doing political stuff and originally the Defias were more or less just trying to get their money back.

I think it's generally agreed that Lord of the Clans and Rise of the Horde are her good ones, Arthas is okay as a read but has disliked retcons, and the rest range from meh to awful.

IIRC, Onyxia didn't really cared about Stormwind, it was to keep the Alliance from her bro in Blackrock. Stirring shit up in Theramore was for similar reason, to protect her lair.

>Love the Tauren
>Baine is about the only relevant Tauren figure still around
>He either gets shafted hard, or stuff like makes him look bad
At least he's getting a new model.

>Not mentioning The Last Guardian

>gnolls stalked the fields, kobolds took over the mines
Both of these were on his payroll in the first place, though. And the harvest golems that plagued Westfall were made by his team of goblins as well.

I don't think Golden wrote that one.

Talking specifically about Golden books, user. But yes, TLG and LotC are my favourite two Warcraft novels.

Magic in Warcraft seems comparatively primal and unrefined to magic found in Harry Potter or the Witcher, where spells are devised and woven and not just based in the few elements and cast in ways that remind you of firebenders in Avatar. Only exception being mage portals.
What could possibly be in those big books and in all of the libraries of Dalaran?

eh, thats just because of how combat spells work. You have enchantments for self sweeping brooms and levitating flowerpots and shit. there is plenty to do with magic not revolving around killing mobs.

wowhead.com/item=29550/tome-of-conjure-water

mayla