EDH/Commander General /edhg/

Fucking 3 bucks.
Worth more than the fucking card that creates it.

Predator ooze, voarpede, polyraptor (any enrage dino) giant adaphage off the top of my head

>picked up this guy
>not sure what to add to make better cus me Timmy me smash
Is niv MizZet a better Izzet commander?

>How would you design it
For reprints, shitton of mana rocks and good lands.
As for new cards, I would revise most of the "legends" legends, and every booster would have one of them instead of the ad card, and you would be able to use a commander in your draft.

Drafts are mostly defined by commons, so, as long as you don't reprint commons that cares about specific things alone, it should be ok.

>mfw they printed comet storm at mythic in a masters set for drafting reasons

>guy

NOOOOOOOO. Mizzix is fucking broke. Just throw in a ton of huge X spells.

>Thread Question

Reprints of the commanders from the original Precons
Reprints of all the checklands including the Innistrad ones.
Reprints of big money enchantments that don't see play elsewhere like Aggravated Assaut, Aura Shards, Leylines, and Parallel Lives >Implying they'd reprint Doubling Season again
Reprint Dromar the Banisher why is he the only Invasion Dragon without a reprint on a modern border yet
Sol Ring at common
Demonic Tutor at rare

There wasn't even a need to reprint comet storm.

That's how they should do it. Put some EDH-playable stuff in Standard products and core sets (soon) and focus on reprinting shit that needs in reprinting in a new commander product. We don't really need precons.

Mizzix is probably the best Izzet commander. The only other ones that come close are Nin and the good Niv-Mizzle. Throw in big, fat spells and lots of X shit. Just make sure you have some backup plans for when Mizzix eventually bites the dust.

>Drafts are mostly defined by commons, so, as long as you don't reprint commons that cares about specific things alone, it should be ok.

>Implying Sol ring as a common wouldn't destroy draft despite working with everything.

No, there are many reasons for drafts to be fucked up. Colors and color balance can be another reason, same with draft archetypes.

yeah ok, then it'd work.
they'd have to call it something else though, since everyone thinks of master sets as draft formats with value reprints

>Would you buy a commander masters product and what would you design it?
No commander is at its best as a side project cobbled together from other formats focusing on it ruins some of that aspect

>thread question
Reprint all of the precon commanders and older legends, the latter with new art/borders
Reprint good lands and artifacts that would actually help manabases
Certain staples at common/uncommon
Big money cards that aren't reserve list at rare/mythic
Fun, splashy stuff that will help people get creative with deck building
Reserve list cards and fetches in a special EDH-only playable border so that scalpers and speculators can't nab them for legacy and modern

>The first commander decks came out 7 years ago

Wizards were printing cards for EDH in standard sets, though, if that's what you mean. Before they decided to cash in on it and make Commander.

>ocusing on it ruins some of that aspect
This. I wish Wizards would meddle in EDH less. This format has gotten a big influx of shitters with how much attention they give it.

>Reserve list cards and fetches in a special EDH-only playable border

I dream of this too.

>commander 2017 was released only 6 months ago
>Feels like an eternity
Man I hope they do a better job this year

2017 felt so lacking in hindsight, and I built an Inalla deck. The secondary commanders were pretty neat with Mairsil, Mathas, Taigam, Nazahn, Ramos, and Mirri, but the primary commanders were so drab. I hope they go with fun themes this year that aren't tribal. I'm sick of 2017 to early 2018 AKA the Tribal Year.

>Q

Just give me a chance to get a foil, pack-fresh skullbriar and I'll buy

>Creating a set without drafting in mind can be a good idea
Maybe the boosters wouldn't inherently be a scam if a set were designed without drafting in mind.

As it currently stands, you should avoid boosters unless you're playing limited, ignorantly wasting your money, or knowingly wasting your money.

>spent Mindslaver on voltron player ready to finish off the combo player and then probably oneshot me
>took the Greaves off, bounced commander to his hand with my Boomerang
>popped all his manarocks that can sac for cards, drew into Tezzeret and Ghost Quarter
>Tezzeret tutors for discard outlet, GQ his Rogue's Passage before discarding about 10 cards
>enter rage scoop phase

>combo player spents his mana tutoring and putting down chumpblockers
>topdeck Buried Ruin, proceed to Mindslaver him as well
>he has Mike/Ballista in hand
>make him shoot himself

The weather sure is fine in Magical Chrismasland

Draft and limited are pretty much the only reason to bother with them, yeah. Wizards should make commons a little stronger in general though. Draft doesn't need to be baby-mode. I'm tired of rarity = power, I want rarity = complexity again.

I don't know what's wrong with me but i hate (using) mindslaver effects.
I don't want to use other people's shitty cards, i want to win playing my deck

>Would you buy a commander masters product and what would you design it?
Don't exclusively focus on reprints, but do what commander already did. Print cards for characters from previous settings that did not previously have cards, and make more diversity in legendaries with color identities and archetypes.

I'm irritated that there aren't as many good esper commanders that focus on other u/b/w mechanics instead of just "Esper in the narrative was focused on artifacts, so the color trio has to always be focused on artifacts".

What are the most cutesy colorful swamps, besides the obvious lorwyn and ixalan?

You can just Timewalk somebody with it, look at their hand and tap out, no biggie

I like some of the Kaladesh ones

This is something that Wizards has a big problem with. They've type-cast certain color combos way too hard. That's why Boros is almost always based on combat when there could be so much more done with it. Nazahn should've been Boros A possible Commander Masters set would need to explore things like this and, like you said, give cards to characters who don't have them yet. I want a Jodah and Skellum already.

>cutesy colorful swamps
>ixalan
What? Only the one Ixalan swamp is remotely either of those.The Min Yum one.

>the should just take the commander products and print them in standard, thats totally different
>new players shouldnt be able to just easy obtain a deck and play, commander is MY secret club!
>reeeee

moron

euro swamp best swamp, but not very colourful

M10 #3 and #4 are lovely as well.

gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=191399

gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=191381

>draft archetypes
Which fall into the category of cards that cares about specific things. Color balance isn't that much of an issue, there aren't that many common that would warp a draft, without to mention that there isn't a single set that is perfectly color balanced.

Sol ring is the exception, not the rule. And I'm not even sure if it is worth reprinting it, since it is guaranteed to be reprinted in every single commander deck.

You are trying to make draft sound too much deeper than it actually is, in the end, people just want to play with cards they like and not lose too much money.

Yeah, that's a love-hate thing.
>Ravnica and Alara codified 'narrative archetypes' to the color pairs and some trios
>But instead of a blank slate for the player or future narratives to project on, it made the color identities tied to the exact factors of the guilds and shards

Or something like that.

When Wizards focuses on Commander too much, we get shit like Derevi and Eminence. If they print commander playable stuff in Standard then those cards won't be a thing. It's an easy fix for Wizards' retarded design focus.

>I'm irritated that there aren't as many good esper commanders that focus on other u/b/w mechanics instead of just "Esper in the narrative was focused on artifacts, so the color trio has to always be focused on artifacts".
there are like 2 legend cards in esper that specifically care and mention artifacts though unless you count partners. esper is mostly geared towards stealing peoples shit or combo

What they should do is only focus on those aspects of color combos when on the plane where those were the features of that color combo there within. At the very least let other planes have their own features for those color combos so that they don't get stale.

How do I CMC?
I keep getting tons of 3 drops and a couple of 4,5,6+ but very few 1 and 2 drops apart from sol ring and signets..

>look at these 2 examples from 6 years of commander products and ignore the rest of them
>these 2 examples are the only thing the commander products are

moron

Lay out your cards in tiered piles by cmc

Eminence is a shit mechanic and if you cant handle it then youre bad :)

Also not that guy

They need to get rid of this mentality of "Cards for Commander". It's not like cards that are good in everything else are inherently terrible in commander or vice-versa, just print good cards, commander players will just pick the ones they like and put in their decks.

They're such bad design choices that they should always be used as an example of Wizard's failings. Especially since Eminence was just last year and Derevi is still a plague. I have already mentioned that they get a lot of things right in the secondary commanders, but those could just as easily be printed in Standard or in some kind of reprint-focused set with a few new cards a year. You call me a moron, but you don't even consider the possible implications of removing the precons. People would also be encourage to make their own decks and choose a legend from the wide available amount instead of just sticking to precon commanders, which is how it should be.

Yeah, it's shit, which is why it shouldn't exist. It's not hard to play against, but it is annoying. Why should we support shit mechanics just because they're easy to beat with actually well-built decks?

i meant average cmc, don't wanna be too heavy and not play anything until turn 3-4

>>They need to get rid of this mentality of "Cards for Commander". It's not like cards that are good in everything else are inherently terrible in commander or vice-versa, just print good cards, commander players will just pick the ones they like and put in their decks.
This is how it should've been from the beginning. If Wizards makes good cards then they will show up in commander. It's really that simple. EDH was better as a format where you made your deck out of whatever was available and made it work. It doesn't need to be catered to. Hell, EDH gets the best supplementary products out of any format every year.

deckstats is good for that, you can see your curve and make adjustments (id say use tappedout but its a buggy pile of horse shit). you can also filter by cmc on edhrec or use scryfall to search for cards with lower cmc. things like endless one are a great filler card to put in as its always on curve. the lower your curve the faster game play will be just fyi but generally 3 cmc spell provide great value for the mana cost and you cant start playing multiples per turn pretty early

can you pull off a good dual colored deck with mainly basics? i figure you dont need too much in terms of landbase for just two colors

I literally have never thought it was anything better then mediocre. And as somebody that has played Derevi Stax, its pretty hard to finish out games unless you run foodchain+walking ballista or some kind of iso scepter/dramatic reversal bullshit.

I personally really love the power level of the original commanders from the first 2 sets of commander products.

so i shouldn't be too worried about this curve?

What kind of deck is it man its hard to determine unless we know what ur playing

when you remove precons you remove the ability for people to easy pick up and play the game while also removing the ability for wizards to seed needed commander reprints into the world thus bringing the format back to years past where barely anyone played it and putting the nail in the coffin of the format. it is complete idiocy to discount the entire product line based on 1 bad design choice and your personal biased again new players who just want to play the game. you are quite literally mad at the packaging the cards come in

you are a moron and the format is better off that people with your idiotic opinion are not in charge of the products for it

>id say use tappedout but its a buggy pile of horse shit
The only buggy thing about it is that shitty competitive rating meter. Tappedout is better in every other way.

need more info about the deck in general like what commander it is and your strategy to really give you an answer on that. just having a low cmc isnt always the best thing, some commanders love hi cmc stuff, yidris springs immediately to mind

>I can never decide between a ton of boardwipes (that includes enchantments/artifacts) or many static effects of mine that lock things down.
>depends on your deck. If you want to establish a board presence, go with static effects. If you are heavier into control, and are more reactive, go with board wipes.

One seems superior on paper. Effects that are always around versus me having to play spells at opportune times to get rid of my opponents' boards. Although a boardwipe just clears things up where I need a few pieces to really make their lives difficult.

This is a tough choice, is one considered more powerful than the other?

>seed needed commander reprints
Which is what a commander masters would be for. Core sets would also be good for reprints like these. The whole idea behind EDH is building your own deck using cards from throughout magic history and giving people premade decks is a hindrance to that because many of them never branch out from those precons or only slightly upgrade. They kill the variety of the format and allow for Wizards to make poor design choices. Derever, Prossh, Oloro, all of Eminence, etc. are bad designs that wouldn't have happened if they just put decent cards in Standard and focused on making good legends there. I'm glad you're not in charge, because you're clearly incapable of seeing the underlying issues that come with precons and what it means for EDH as a format. Sure they bring in new players, but at what cost? They could just as easily do a Commander Masters that would bring people in without having to do precons.

Up until 2 colors, your manabase is mostly cheap. You don't need stuff like fetches, or the strong duals, with just basics and mana rocks, it should be enough to warrant both colors by turn 2 or 3 at max. I play a 2color deck with half basics, and the other half being either cheap duals like manlands and scrylands, and the other half are utility lands, and I have never really had a problem with missing color with years of playing.

>doesnt show certain card prices
>doesnt show certain cards exist
>color wheel fucks up all the time showing your deck as colorless
>the duplicate deck feature is buggy and wont let you submit a deck if its a few cards too similar to one you already have
>no way to go from home page directly to decks
>no way to add a new deck directly from home page
>deck search is and similar deck recommendation often doesnt show decks in the same format or same commander
>poor optimization, pages load slow af (tested on multiple different networks and devices)
>card images dont load consistantly
>sample hand tool doesnt work and effectively has two decks to draw from depending on where you click on the page
>mobile version is dog shit just in general
>lazy staff refuse to fix any of these issues

tappedout is garbage and deckstats is infinitely better currently

i run 16 basics in my deck (36 lands total). The reprinted Ixalan lands aren't very expensive and well worth to pick up. cycle lands can be useful as well as manlands. scrylands are also pretty cheap but it depends if you need the scry or if the etb tapped is too hard on your deck

command tower should be in auto include in any 2+ colour decks. it's super affordable and great value

>The whole idea behind EDH is building your own deck using cards from throughout magic history
there is the stop liking what i dont like, knew it would come out eventually. guess what user, you do not get to dictate how people play the game and the format is better off that you dont

you are a moron and a hypocrite

I utilize both precon commanders, and older legendaries for commanders. You def sound no fun to play with.

I've never experienced half of those problems and I've been using Tappedout for years.

>doesnt show certain card prices
That one I'll give you

>doesnt show certain cards exist
Never seen it

>color wheel fucks up all the time showing your deck as colorless
Never seen it

>the duplicate deck feature is buggy and wont let you submit a deck if its a few cards too similar to one you already have
Never seen it

>no way to go from home page directly to decks
There is though. It's on the top bar under the folder icon.

>no way to add a new deck directly from home page
All you have to do is click on deck builder, which from there is only one extra click

>deck search is and similar deck recommendation often doesnt show decks in the same format or same commander
Never used similar deck recommendation, so I'll have to take your word for it.

>poor optimization, pages load slow af (tested on multiple different networks and devices)
It loads at a decent speed for me. Nothing noticeable most of the time.

>card images dont load consistantly
Happens sometimes, but I wouldn't call it constantly

>sample hand tool doesnt work and effectively has two decks to draw from depending on where you click on the page
I just used it like five minutes ago and it seems fine.

>mobile version is dog shit just in general
It's not as terrible as you make it out to be. Good enough for adding a couple cards in a pinch.

It sounds like you're nitpicking and a lot of the issues you state are either more minor than you make them out to be or aren't true at all. Not to mention that Tappedout has plenty of useful resources.

That's what the format was founded for. If you don't like it, then this isn't the format for you. You can name call all you like, but it doesn't change what EDH is. If you're so intent on killing the diversity of the format, go play something with little variation like Standard.

The crappy precon commanders like Eminence need to go, but the other ones never needed to be in precons to begin with. New cards aren't the problem. The problem is putting good cards into a product with bad cards and pushing it on newbies so that those bad cards show up everywhere.

>That's what the format was founded for.
incorrect, the format was founded for how you want to play it, it even says so directly on the website ffs

you are so focused on how you think the format should be played you are actively participating in the type of behavior you claim to campaign against

you are a moron and a hypocrite

And you're a fucking goon who wants to push bad cards on people looking to get into the format in a product that doesn't give them the tools they need to actually learn. If you don't see the problem with Wizards designing directly for commander then there's no way we can have an actual conversation about the state of the format because there's a fundamental dissonance of values here.

This is seriously the shittest mentality. Noone gets to dictate how you play.

I think somebody just got pubstomped by a cEDH deck and is upset about it.

cEDH has nothing to do with commander precons and how Wizards running wild with designs is unhealthy for the format. Mocking someone isn't an argument. And you say no one gets to dictate how you play, but Wizards is doing just that with the precons. They're pushing a certain kind of mentality on new players who enter the format. If they encounter a cEDH deck then there would be a huge rift in the image Wizards impressed upon them and what they'd be playing against.

>edh founded as a format to play magic they way you want to
>unless you want to play a card Sheldon doesn’t like

>cards that are unhealthy for a non competitive format
???

Playgroups are always free to not follow those rules. Even in at an LGS you can still have a discussion to change rules.

When silved bordered stuff was legal, we all played for a while, and then realized a few cards were fucking awful, and asked each other not to play them.

>ask someone if they want to smoke weed
>”r-r-r-reefer? No user that’s illegal”
>ask someone if I can play a banned card
>no it’s illegal
Top down reasoning doesn’t matter if it’s deemed “illegal”

Its YOUR choice to play with whatever card YOU want to play with. Derevi is not a problem. And whats wrong with crushing new players??? Thats how I learned thats how I taught all my friends. Lets be adults while playing this kids card game.

This, used to get smothered by my friends mono black deck when he introduced me To magic until I got better cards

Yes, cards can be unhealthy for an non-competitive format. Hell, people will come in and act like it's a competitive format (cEDH) if you do poor enough design for it. There will always be dumbasses who look at casual games/formats with a competitive mindset because they can't fathom not winning every game. I have a friend like this who can't enjoy any games unless he's playing the best possible strategy and winning every game. If he gets beaten by something goofy, then he ramps it up and tries even harder and makes it even less fun for anyone involved. I tried to introduce him to casual games before, but he just immediately asked to know whatever the strongest strategy was and how he could break the game over his knee. There are people like this with such a competitive mindset that they'll set out to ruin everyone else's fun for the sake of wining a beer and pretzels game. Hard to imagine someone like that, right? I used to play with one. Imagine someone who only plays the fastest combo decks or stax decks and drops exorbitant amounts of money often just so he can always be ahead of everyone else at the table who doesn't take it nearly as serious.

>as a means to preserve fun for someone else you ban a card that results in taking fun away from someone else
It’s funny how policy like banning cards doesn’t fix the actual problem it aims to but rather produces the same problem it aims to fix

My problem with this is that a lot of people don't learn from this. They whine and cry about things being unfair and then either drop the format or go play with others of their kind. That doesn't help the format grow. Wizards gives these whiners a bad image of what the format at large is really like. And Derevi, while not necessarily being a problem, can do some degenerate things and is poor design in general. Something can be design while not really being a big issue. Allowing cards to refer to the command zone is a mistake to me though. I won't stop people from playing them, but Derevi and the like are obnoxious.

I never talked about banning cards. I'm very anti-ban actually. I prefer groups coming up with their own policies on how to handle different cards. If cards are unhealthy, they shouldn't have been made to begin with, but it's up to the groups at large to handle them once those things become a reality. I'm against poor design, but not in favor of banning.

How does your land base do? Do you feel like you are always short on blue mana? Thats where I would be focusing. Cleaning up that land base to make it run more smoothly.

Im literally telling you even if you are playing cEDH I can think of some many more powerful things then derevi or even like prossh food chain. And if you want to talk about the format not growing, thats just not true. Commander is 2nd most popular mtg format. You sound like an oldhead complaining about cards refering to the command zone.

It runs fine usually. Idk if im running too few lands tho.

>complaining about cards refering to the command zone
Because that's one of my biggest issues with Wizards designing directly for Commander. That's why I used Derevi as an example. EDH doesn't need to be designed for because it runs well enough without it. Wizards just needs to make good cards in regular sets, not cater to EDH. My head may be old, but that doesn't change the fact that mentioning the command zone on cards is a mistake.

Man I guess we just gotta agree to disagree. I think its perfectly fine to cater towards an audience. EDH player love shit thats good for them, and while its nice to get cards from new sets, hell Im playing Kumena for christs sake, I will find myself using way more of the commander cards then cards from new sets and thats fine with me. More cards is always great. I guess you just don't like cards meant for you???

Doesnt have to be a Masters Set, but they need to remake a commander product that includes all the originals that are now impossible to find due to age or popularity, such as Animar and Containment priest. There are so many cards that are too fucking expensive because they were only ever printed in one Commander product. Teferi's Protection is literally the same shit.

I just don't like the idea of designing specifically for commander, especially while the main sets suffer. Wizards could spend more effort putting good things into standard and seeding it with good cards for commander or at least good cards in general. A possible commander masters set could have all of those nice reprints that this format thrives on while also having a couple extra goodies in it like the more well-designed commander precon legends. I'm just not warm to the idea of command zone-referencing cards, but I do think that Wizards could still design for commander while being less obtuse about it.

>Feline Ferocity is G/W
>Feline Ferocity makes cat tokens
>Feline Ferocity has a more distinct white identity than Vampiric Bloodlust
>Feline Ferocity doesn't get Teferi's Protection

T-t-thanks...

I originally got the Vampire precon,
and am keeping Teferi's Protection in that deck since I'm still relying on tokens, but would it be better off in a creature deck that doesn't rely on tokens?
Is there some technicality that I'm overlooking and if doesn't work with tokens at all?

Why would we need an draftable set designed for commander, when we could do the exact same thing in a commander precon. Thats just dumb. Also you are aware that the team that works on standard arent the same team that works on commander sets right?

Theres nothing wrong with referencing the Command Zone but I think WotC have just made such bullshit with it, most people want to avoid it like the plague. Look at the absolute bullshit that is Eminence.

They brought back phasing just because it works with tokens. Teferi's Protection is good enough to go in pretty much any white deck, creature heavy or not, since it essentially gives your board protection from everything for a turn.

>thread question
Yes I would. It would not be centered around draft, and it would not have a pack MSRP of 10 dollars. It'd include expensive cards that are expensive exclusively for EDH like doubling season, and have alternate arts for more popular commanders.

Fuck draft.