They always talk in the end

Remainder, anyone willing to compromise on their deepest-held principles to relieve physical suffering is weak, even moreso when the pain is virtual. That said, overt torture is a terrible way to reliably gather information. Starvation, dehydration, and sensory deprivation are far superior in every way but the time expended.

Plus 99% of torture is just the ancient animal excuse of "I am small, petty, and feel powerless, so I will take out my urge to destroy on someone who cannot possibly fight back, under the flimsy pretense of necessity when I just want to indulge my broken sadism to make my dick work for 5 minutes and see someone in agony"

Freud called, he wants his cigar back.

>it is a means of confirming information.
It's not even good for that because, again, the victim will tell you whatever gets the torture to stop. It's useless.

Don't need that old dud to know that broken men like torture to make themselves feel strong without any danger, and they adore dressing it up with big strong words and excuses of need

Why else do you think so many teachers call for paddling in schools?

Well yeah. In America we live in a nation of ritualized and accepted child abuse and murder. We produce ruined and damaged children who grow up to keep the cycle of hurt going when it's their turn to thrash the shit out of some screaming small child who can't defend themselves.

>everyone breaks in the end
>torture is never an effective means of gathering information

Simplistic memes for the masses who can't handle nuance. Generally accurate, true, but there are some glaring exceptions (comparing info from multiple prisoners works, ticking time bombs are worth a shot; about 1 in 10,000 people are diamonds that never break e.g. admiral stockdale), and what are PC's if not exceptional?

>broken men

African militiamen are well-adapted to their social habitat; certainly better than you or I, ergo, "broken" is a narrative you tell yourself feed your ego.

Moral superiority is only valid premised on potential. There's no virtue in refusing to hurt some poor chap if you never had the capacity in the first place.

We Stand on Guard. 6-issue series about the Canadian resistance following a US invasion.

Torture is the province of broken humans. Doesn't matter what they came from or who they are. It means you have a need to destroy that you can only satisfy by hurting those who cannot defend themselves.

Torture is effective if the information can be quickly and easily verified.

For example, I have your laptop. If you don't give me the login details of the laptop you get tortured. I can check whether the information you give me is accurate in just a couple seconds, so if you want to avoid torture you better give me the correct answer.

Yes, actually!

It was part of her backstory. She was born and raised a slave in an Illithid city, bred by her captors to be tortured so that her pain and anguish could be devoured psychically. In this place she lived until the age of thirteen, when a miracle occurred and she escaped, somehow managing to find her way to the surface.

A little later, she learns that Torog, the God of imprisonment and the underdark (It was a 4E campaign) was the orchestrator of her miracle, and he had been looking out for and guiding her ever since she was freed. He tells her that he has chosen her to be one of his agents on the material plane and that is is her charge to break the chains of those unjustly bound and turn those chains on those who would be their captors.

It was a setting where Torog, who is normally an Evil god, was a somewhat sympathetic figure. It didn't mess with what the DM had planned so he allowed it. She was a Human Favored Soul and a lot of her powers were refluffed to be chains, bindings, or implements of torture.

Which is bad, to us, which is a moral/ethical stance. You're medicalizing ethics, which is committing an is-ought fallacy. Hurting people for teh lulz is an old human tradition that conveys no significant disadvantage to the groups who still participate in it.

>Hurting people for teh lulz is an old human tradition

So you're one of the broken ones then, got it.

If broken is now your pet code for historically literate, sign me up.

Literally not an argument. I'm not him but he's entirely right. There's hundreds of justifications that someone may have for hurting people, and "hurr I wanna feel stronk" is just one of them.

Who told you that garbage? CNN? For the past few years, it’s been a propaganda issue for the left that torture never worked. Torture never worked, walls never worked, nationalism never worked, borders never even existed, wars can never be won. We live in the age of lies. How long do you feel you can last under torture?

youtube.com/watch?v=TRC6FwjPZS4

Because people need to be punished for incorrect actions?

Infantile circumcision is a sterling example of this user's point, the meaningless butchery of a newborn's most sensitive appendage is unacceptable, but we've industrialized it to the extent infant foreskins are going into youth-preserving facial creams. Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of infants, missing the most sensitive parts of their penis, an atrocity on par with, if not exceeding the Holdomor. Torture, for the sake of subjective aesthetics, and we've normalized it. Part of my penis went into some old woman's facial cream immediately after birth, without my consent, leaving me with barely thirty percent genital sensitivity, and I'm considered an eccentric for advocating against the irreversible mutilation of infant's genitals, that's unalderated torture in its purest form.

>without my consent
Children are property of their parents (who are property of the state) until the state can claim them

You can actually improve the odds of torture giving you the truth by torturing more people. I would imagine that if you torture 1000 people for the information you want, you should statistically find the correct answer.

>Hurting people for teh lulz is an old human tradition that conveys no significant disadvantage to the groups who still participate in it.
You dropped this buddy

>tfw you're uncut

> "Let's surgically remove infant's finger-and-toe nails hours after birth to prevent dirt and grime from building up beneath them."

Is a sensible a suggestion as infantile circumcision. The surgical alteration of the bodies of those unable to consent, let alone comprehend the superficial reasoning behind doing so, is immoral to the highest degree.

I'm sorry user, but there are many scientific studies that show that not only does circumcision not affect how pleasurable sex is, but also it has several benefits. Such as significantly reducing the man's chances of becoming infected with STDs like HIV.

It's not about resisting torture, it's about getting useful information out of torture. Torture doesn't work is talking about stuff like Jack Bauer breaking fingers to try and get people to give up where the bombs are. Stuff that's not easily verifiable, especially if you are unsure if the target actually knows the information.

>imagine wanting a doggy penis this badly

>a sensible a suggestion
We declaw cats; dont know why we dont to pet babies
>immoral
Morality is a social construct

circumcision worked and made sense when WE LIVED IN A FUCKING HELL DESERT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO

DON'T SEE A LOTTA SAND TO GET IN MY DICK NOW, DO I

but the real reason is Kellogg was a pedophile lunatic who hated boys jerking off because he had *crippling* sex issues and was desperate to mutilate and control

Wow this thread is going well.

Canwe actually try and answer OP's question?

it was a doomed question, so no

>significantly reducing the man's chances of becoming infected with STDs like HIV
So does not fucking fags, africans, and african fags

"Not having casual unprotected sex makes you have less STD's"
What other great wisdom do you have to share user?

Well for one he'd have to tell us what the hell a 'Torture save' is. I'm not familiar with any game that has torture saves, unlike Death, Wand, Spell, Poison etc.

Self-deprecating mutilation apologists have me THIS close to diving onboard with the shitfest that is /pol/, if there's on thing Jews are guilty of, it's the normalization of the mutilation of infant's genitals. Look at pic related and tell me it is acceptable, to be encouraged and embraced by any society claiming the slightest veneer of civilization. Explain to me, WHY the violation of infants in their most vulnerable region is the universal ideal.

That you can torture for reasons besides getting information. You could do it to set an example or see how long they'll last or what they'll give up. The last two are important when testing what information you can trust giving to employees

>an atrocity on par with, if not exceeding the Holdomor
I see what you did there

>that first sentence

EDGY AS FUCK BROOOO

>Children are property of their parents (who are property of the state) until the state can claim them

I guess I can use a child as a kickball then since it's my property?

Torture is literally nearly useless. people say anything because they don't want to be hurt, and they honestly know you don't believe anything they say.

No, that would be irreparable damage to a future taxpayer, which is directly damaging the state itself.

No, because your owners (the state) say you can't.

>No, that would be irreparable damage to a future taxpayer, which is directly damaging the state itself.
And choping off a part of your kids dick isn't damaging a future tax payer?

No, it's making a future taxpayer comply with your deformed sexuality.

>look at this crying refugee how can we not let them in?

I get where you're coming from, an infant can't choose, and it's the choice part that I think is the only part of your argument that has any weight to it, as the rest is demonstrably false.

It comes down to a question of ethics then. Is it ok to cause pain to an infant for a reduction in chance of diseases and infections?

I honestly don't have a good answer for you, it could be either way. Human beings can absolutely be improved upon beyond nature's design(let's not fall into the natural fallacy), the question is: is the cost worth it?

I'm not sure at this moment, but I know that spreading demonstrably false information(Like the reduction in sexual pleasure and the claim that it might cause ADD and/or autism, not that you said the latter though) will not help your argument.

I would recommend focusing on the ethics of choice in any arguments you have in the future.

And for the record, yes, the original reasoning to reduce masturbation was ridiculous and also a falsehood, and I very much disagree with that reasoning.

Not true, sometimes it's about making large amounts of money. That's one of the reasons why the US tortured people during the Bush administration. It was big business for the contractors involved.

You haven't been around many babies, have you? They're pretty much always making that face.

Not in any meaningful sense no. Circumcision very rarely results in complication and has some noted health benefits. Ultimately it should probably fall on the parents as to whether or not they elect to pursue the surgery. That's basically where all health decisions made about children fall.

>not only does circumcision not affect how pleasurable sex is
I'm still convinced that the whole "circumcision decreases sexual pleasure" farce has only caught on because of the dissonance between a culture that pushes sex as the end-all-be-all and the reality that blowing your load is really only a momentary rush that doesn't actually create any meaningful sense of fulfillment.

Oh that too, yes, but that's just the tired old dying machine enabling its boys to take out their lack of a real life on others; making money is a given for every action they take, since it's all they know and are capable of. It's all they are and think about, Make My Number Go Up. It's fascinating how the rich are like their own mentally ill collective of bad RPG munchkins- all they can see and feel is Make The Number Bigger, with a manchild's burning hate of anyone stopping their autism slide.

You mean way easier? Everywhere is up from there.

Hmm, interesting thought.

No one does anything for free, their price just isn't always monetary.

>Self-deprecating mutilation apologists have me THIS close to diving onboard with the shitfest that is /pol/, if there's on thing Jews are guilty of, it's the normalization of the mutilation of infant's genitals. Look at pic related and tell me it is acceptable, to be encouraged and embraced by any society claiming the slightest veneer of civilization. Explain to me, WHY the violation of infants in their most vulnerable region is the universal ideal.

/pol/ is worse than these guys. They think everything is because of the (((((JEWS))))).
And I don't mean logical stuff like circumcision. They think the jews made soy and make people gay to destroy western civilization, and all kinds of crazy shit.

That picture is not an illustration of why circumcision is wrong. It lacks the info.
The reason why circumcision shouldn't be done is basically twofold.

It is not necessary (except in certain medical cases), and it is done to someone who can not consent to it. (another thing is that apparently it is often done without anestrhesia)
It's not like the baby has a tumor, they don't need the foreskin removed.

>Torture is no good
>Instead you should torture them

Literally what the fuck are you talking about.

Since everybody went into a circlejerk about the reliability and morality of torture, let me take a stab at OP's actual question.
>How do you GM a player losing a torture save?
Generally it's not a good idea to actively torture a player for information because it's a very on-rails scenario that takes up time and gives the player little to do aside from "I scream in agony I guess" or "You'll never break me dickwads!" In this scenario, the PC will have to become an NPC under your control for a while after their willpower is broken and they've lost the save. You get to dictate what they spill.
A passive torture sequence that happens offscreen might work better. You will have to talk with your player one on one to really get a good feeling for what the character revealed, and how they feel afterwards.
If it is just a question of "how do I get this information out of the player so the BBEG can have it?" then depending on your setting, telepathy magic or truth serums would be better, and they also give the player the feeling of being easily defeated, similar to torture.

Look, Jewish culture can keep circumcision. If it's cultural, whatever, that's their deal. /pol/ isn't smart enough to do its history anyways and find out it was Kellogg, one of their 'own', who started the American mass-mutilation in the first place.

If the information can be quickly and easily verified, why are you bothering with torture in the first place? There are faster and less labor intensive methods to get a computer password. Besides, there's no guarantee that the torture will end once you get the information, so the victim is even less inclined to give you anything.

>Torture is useless; they'll just lie!

Shit, if only there was such a thing like a spell of discern lies.

Negligible reduction in first world countries with access to modern hygiene and medical practices. There is no reason not to make it a choice for someone to make with their own informed consent when they've reached an older age. Unlike vaccines and dumb anti vaxxers circumcision isn't critical, if anything it's an optional privilege.

Don't you want to be more like your betters you stupid goy?

That's what my mom said. Me and my cousin both, they said it was out choice when we we grown if we want to get snipped.

HELL no. Being uncut feels goddamn amazing. I don't get how other guys do it.

See making information easily verifiable in an immediate way does kind let you get away with torture a lot more.

If dickish wizard can burn half your face off an tell you to tell him the truth then you lie and his spell chimes to say your lying then he can just order you to tell the truth or he'll melt the other side.

>Being uncut feels goddamn amazing. I don't get how other guys do it.

To be completely fair, you're assuming it's going to feel less pleasurable if you cut it off. You won't really know until you do it. Empiricism and all that. Not that I'm encouraging it or anything.

>There are faster and less labor intensive methods to get a computer password.
Not if you don't have the skills or tools to do so.

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time to crack a remotely good password.

So you'd rather beat on a guy rather than maybe ask for help from folks that do have the skills and tools?

No I actually do because cut dudes can't just jerk it anytime they want or get wet under the foreskin, has to use lube and hard rubbing and I just masturbate in a completely different way. Feeling the head be pulled back when you push in is Heaven.

And I think you severely underestimate the amount of time needed to crack a person.

>Is it ok to cause pain to an infant for a reduction in chance of diseases and infections?
The risk of surgical complication is far worse than any sort of penile infection, which are not only rare, but can be much more easily cured than a mangled cock.
>Human beings can absolutely be improved upon beyond nature's design
Circumcision is not an "improvement" in a culture that has running water and soap.

Most guys just don't know how. I was cut at age 14 to correct a gradually worsening congenital defect, and after it healed it seemed different, but overall not less pleasurable. I did have to sort of relearn how to do it, but I have no problem masturbating without lubricant over 10 years later.

Depends on what you want. If you got kidnapped by thieves who want your bank details, are you going to resist torture for the sake of money?

People have differing level of toughness and conviction, but not even all people who are tough necessarily care enough about the subject at hand to be tortured over it.

>Admiral Stockdale
His son was my elementary school principal. Got fired for telling the whole 5th grade that some of them would be raped at some point in their lives. His grandson flunked out of a bunch of private schools. A shame, really.

>No I actually do because cut dudes can't just jerk it anytime they want
I'm cut and I've never masturbated with lube. Chafing only becomes a problem when you hit 4-5 faps per day, which is probably not a good idea anyway.

>Look, Jewish culture can keep circumcision. If it's cultural, whatever, that's their deal. /pol/ isn't smart enough to do its history anyways and find out it was Kellogg, one of their 'own', who started the American mass-mutilation in the first place.

I honestly don't think it should be done by the jewish people now either.
Practicing your culture is fine as long as it doesn't hurt other people. If some people want to worship their weird fairytale book from 1000 years ago then that is fine, as long as they don't hurt others while doing it.

Religious freedom should be allowed until it starts infringing on the freedom of other people.

>His son was my elementary school principal. Got fired for telling the whole 5th grade that some of them would be raped at some point in their lives. His grandson flunked out of a bunch of private schools. A shame, really.

>His son was my elementary school principal. Got fired for telling the whole 5th grade that some of them would be raped at some point in their lives.

Sadly, he wasn't exactly wrong when he told them that.

Torture is an excellent way to gather propaganda. It doesn't matter if all of it are desperate lies. It will be authentic enough for someone to believe it.

Moralfags for days. Now I will agree that torture is a crude method at best and tends to produce wildly varying answers from person to person. But a lot of this does tie back into a mistaken assumption.
>"You are obviously hiding something"
More often then not you can torture a dozen people and literally none of them will actually KNOW what you want, the issue comes in when when you assume that the victim screaming and maimed is trying to fuck you over. Pain is difficult to resist and the ones who can? they'll demonstrate indifference from the Outset

Babies aren't religious. They can get circumcised when they're older if they want. It's as simple as that.

This. Holy fuck do you people think you just let them go after they spill? You check what they say and then if they're lying you punish them and if they legitimately don't know you punish them anyway.

I'd never have a torture save in my game. If there's a plan to rescue them, I skip to the plan. If there's no way they could be rescued, they can choose whether to give the info or die. There's 0 reason to put a save in, you know most players would never have their character break under torture.

Second post best post.

>I'm going to have beat you until you piss blood, then I'll ask where your friends are hiding. I'll send a minion to check the place out. Then I'll give you to my orc minion as a fuck puppet if they aren't there.We will continue this process until I have your friends or you die.

How is this a bad plan?

hey, reddit has arrived!!!

dude, my jew-form cock works just fine: cleans super easy, i don't remember the cut, and girls know they won't get any funny taste from a blow job, so i get action more often...

sorry pagan, it's a fine idea....

Character in the OP was a Canadian woman, what did you expect?

It's entirely possible that the guy honestly doesn't know the answer to your question, and it's going to be difficult to tell through all the torture.

It can be difficult to verify information. If the question is, "tell us who your collaborators are", then they might just list random people, who would of course deny the allegations regardless so the information gained doesn't really prove or settle anything. It's certainly very dubious information in that example, lacking credibility.

There's a reasonable level of doubt regarding the effectiveness of torture for obtaining various forms of information, but this has turned into the simplistic truism that "torture isn't reliable" that gets mindlessly parroted by idiots whenever the topic comes up.

>hey, reddit has arrived!!!

>dude, my jew-form cock works just fine: cleans super easy, i don't remember the cut, and girls know they won't get any funny taste from a blow job, so i get action more often...

>sorry pagan, it's a fine idea....
Complains about reddit, yet uses reddit spacing.