7000 tx a sec which Plasma will completely eclipse

It's up too much and the news is too late for me to risk it. Good luck to those that got in early though, I hope whales don't dump the news.

sure. see you at 100k/btc

Investing in BTC now is like betting on a racehorse with a broken leg

dont be bringing common sense into an xrb thread bro

The problem with spamming is that you're required to PoW before making a transaction. If you spam transactions, you're essentially DDOSing yourself. That's why it's a low-risk issue. IF for whatever reason it becomes something to consider in the feature, Colin's already stated that they can put an adaptive threshold to the PoW making it even more difficult for an attacker to carry an attack.

I dunno why I bother bringing this up since it gets ignored anyway. I used to own some XRB myself and I'm happy for the holders, but they should understand to practice some caution

the wallet alone makes me think the dev's are shit. furthermore they've been defending that scam exchange since forever... fuck this coin, don't wan't this moon...

How would variable POW even work? Sounds kind of hard to implement something like that. AFAIK the POW is an external factor limiting the protocol so how could they change it from inside the protocol?

> If you spam transactions, you're essentially DDOSing yourself
Some redditor calculated that it's like 1.5k$ per hour to halt the network if you rent a server farm

I own a couple dozen XRB. Would it make sense to buy more around $32, or just ride it out and hope my small share takes off? Should I sell my small shares of coins ($30, $40) and just add to my XRB portfolio? I originally bought in around $10..

Sorry, but that's no indication of a dev being shit. Colin, the creator, has a long history of working on really low-level stuff and he's very competent at what he does. The issue is when you put a guy like that in charge of making the frontend, you will often get something like the current wallet. The wallet itself is pretty good, but it's made for a power-user, not your average user. They are aware of it and are working on more user-friendly ones.

I hear your senpai, 64 XRB poorfag here, bought first at $8 then at $16

honestly I think I'll let it ride the way it is and look for other coins that I see potential for in the future, already got my eyes in some

People are fucking DYING to buy it. It's going to have 30 bln marketcap by summer and 50 bln by autumn.

Colin talks about it in his AMA. This is not an issue as it is, but assuming someone wants to burn money and spam the network, it might slow down marginally while legitimate transactions still get processed. Adaptive threshold would make this cost for the attacker even higher, so there is literally zero incentive to spam the network (unless you just want to see the world burn)

>>only available on one exchange created by the dev team
Also this is not true, bitgrail has nothing to do with rai, they're are just cooperating. Plus they hate each other, judging by their tweets.

I've read the AMA, I was invested back then, but ever since I started selling off my stash. None of my concerns I just posted were properly answered, and saying read the whitepaper or read the AMA is not an answer. There are safer investments at this point in the market, XRB is still pretty young and hasn't had its baptism by fire yet.

>None of my concerns I just posted were properly answered

I mean, I literally just answered your concern and you're still in denial. I'm sorry you sold off your investment so soon.

Did you read my post? You answered nothing. But whatever, keep at it.

Variable PoW would work like this: if you are accelerating your send rate, you will be required by the network to perform increasingly more work.

The POW is computed locally for your local blockchain. How can the network force your blockchain's POW to increase?

Do you understand how Bitcoin works? The difficulty changes, and the nodes adapt. The rest of the network checks if the requirements are met.

With Raiblocks is the same thing, except the PoW algorithm is different, but that's an irrelevant detail in this discussion.

Ask Colin who said he could implement if the need ever arises.

I enjoy your skepticism, desu, but if this is the biggest potential problem then I think we're off to the stars.

Also loving the fact that Colin is offering $1M to anyone who'll find a security issue.

Do you understand how XRB works? Blockchains are local, so how do you just randomly force others to change the POW required for their own chains?

I also pointed out the issue about variable POW making low-powered devices unable to use the network at all. I have nothing against XRB and hope it succeeds, but yeah I wanna point these things out to people

>thinking the big money still cares about decentralization as anything but a buzzword

Also I don't doubt Colin has a fair shot at resolving all these issues that cross his path. But still think it's a very high risk investment for such a high market cap coin. On the other hand there's IOTA...

Spam Attacks

(1/3)

From the RaiBlocks Whitepaper:

Transaction Flooding.
A malicious entity could send many unnecessary but valid transactions between accounts under its control in an attempt to saturate the network. With no transaction fees they are able to continue this attack indefinitely. However, the PoW required for each transaction limits the transaction rate the malicious entity could generate without significantly investing in computational resources. Even under such an attack in an attempt to inflate the ledger, nodes that are not full historical nodes are able to prune old transactions from their chain; this clamps the storage usage from this type of attack for almost all users.

////////////

user:

What if a spammer start sending multiple transactions between two wallets back and forth, since it has no fee cost; is he going to be able to make that ‘forever’? Wouldnt that make the blockchain size motherf*cking big?

RaiBlocks Dev:

This is addressed in "Transaction Flooding" under the section "Attack Vectors" of the whitepaper. The PoW required by these transactions is the limiting factor. Once pruning is implemented, this attack would only affect full historical nodes. Even with full historical nodes, storage is cheap. The current blockchain is only about 1.7GB and contains over 4 million transactions.

////////////

I don't think you understand how decentralized systems work.

Since the blockchain is local, then can you add blocks as you please? Of course not, because the network will deem them as invalid and that's it.

Even with Bitcoin, do you think that blocks are added by some magical entity with the power to modify the blockchain? Nope, just nope. Otherwise the system wouldn't be decentralized. Blocks are added by the miners, and the rest of the network decides whether to accept them or not (if they're invalid, for instance).

So, again, with Raiblocks is the *exact same thing*. Because this is simply how decentralized systems work. You can add all the blocks you want to your blockchain, but if the rest of the network does not agree with you, it's as if they didn't exist.

Before you answer, think again about Bitcoin: the miners themselves are adding blocks! It's not like you need to have some special status to modify the blockchain.

The thing is, the blockchain representation differs locally, but it's eventually consistent, because the participants agree on a shared state.

With Raiblocks, the local blockchain is there only to represent an up-to-date version of your balance, but you can't spend the coins if you manufactured fake blocks. Because, once again, the rest of the network won't accept fake coins.

I realize my reply is kind of a ramble, but I'm in a hurry and I cannot make it neater. I hope the point came across clearly though.

(2/3)

Github – Possible Attacks to RaiBlocks (github.com/clemahieu/raiblocks/wiki/Attacks)

“RaiBlocks has a number of mechanisms built in to protect from a range of possible attacks on the system. Here we go over all attacks there could be on the system and what safeguards are in place. “
Transaction flooding - Moderate risk, high I/O
Description: Transaction flooding is simply sending as many valid transactions as possible in order to saturate the network. Usually an attacker will send transactions to other accounts they control so it can be continued indefinitely.
Defense: Each block has a small amount of work associated with it, around 5 seconds to generate and 1 microsecond to validate. This work difference causes an attacker to dedicate a large amount to sustain an attack while wasting a small amount of resources by everyone else. Nodes that are not full historical nodes are able to prune old transactions from their chain, this clamps the storage usage from this type of attack for almost all users.

You seem to have a misunderstanding of how XRB works. Yes, your account is a ledger made up by a chain of blocks you create the PoW for, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with it and have the network accept it because it's "yours". The network still rejects anything that doesn't comply with the rules. Thus, if they decide to change the rules to have some sort of adaptive difficulty PoW, you can't just say fuck it and not do it.

(3/3)

user:
Cost of spamming the RaiBlocks network

RaiBlocks requires that users complete a short PoW before submitting a transaction. Per the official GitHub, this takes around 5 seconds. The purpose of this is to prevent spam.
The stated capacity of RaiBlocks is 7k TPS. Let's accept this figure for sake of argument. That means a typical CPU can perform 0.2 TPS. At this rate, it would require approximately 35,000 cores to reach the 7k TPS figure and overwhelm the network.
Per ec2insances.info, a c5.18xlarge instance provides 72 cores for a cost of $3.06 per hour. Therefore, approximately 500 instances would be required to reach the 7k TPS figure at a cost of just $1500 per hour.
Based on my math, this seems incredibly cheap to spam the network. $1500 is nothing compared to a market cap now measured well over $500M. This gives me some pause about holding RaiBlocks; seems it's only a matter of time before it faces a DDOS. Did I mistake a mistake in my analysis here? Even if I'm off by 10x, $15k an hour is not much money in crypto.

Colin Lemahieu:

Thanks for taking time to crunch some numbers! We'd definitely like to have a larger security margin on transaction creation for the reasons you wrote. The immediate possibilities are either increasing the difficulty factor or replacing the PoW algorithm with something less parallelizable.
There are some suggestions for more advanced throttling; we need to make sure these will still work while bootstrapping after being offline and also we need to make sure bootstrapping doesn't expose an unthrottled path.
For what it's worth the benchmarks I did for ~5 seconds is on a 6core hyperthreaded 3.5Ghz Xeon.
I think your cost estimates are 5-10x lower than what they would actually be because the assumption is 1core=5sec of PoW though it's more like 6-12cores of a high end processor.
We're looking at it though because 5,000-10,000$/hour to spam isn't enough headroom long term.

>Since the blockchain is local, then can you add blocks as you please? Of course not, because the network will deem them as invalid and that's it.
Yes, but I imagine you also can't be forced by the network to change the calculations required to mine new blocks at will by the network, since your blockchain is, after all, local and deterministic.

Can the network change the amount of POW required for local chains and ensure that nodes obey?

I've read the white paper thank you very much. Seriously read my concerns and see if they are answered in any sentence you quoted

Right now the blockchain has no notion of time, so an adaptive algorithm might be hard, if not impossible, but that could be added. If time is added to blocks, it should definitely be possible since that would allow any node to be able to verify what the difficulty should be.

read the final post.

That's what I was basically concerned about. Sure they might pull it off, but why not just introduce a small scalable fee instead? It's not like POW is exactly free

Yes, that could be another solution. It could be even possible to merge those two solutions.

As you see, it's not like the problem is unsolvable. And right now it's not exactly a primary concern.

Oops, didn't notice that.

Yes, I actually skimmed that reply earlier. This part sounds good
> There are some suggestions for more advanced throttling

So they're open to different things.

jep. Lightning is going to ass fuck most of these "fast coins" faggots.

so sorry!

Well, all I'm saying that XRB isn't mature yet and people should consider that when investing, Might go big, but there's also a non-zero chance that it may fail

to be fair bitgrail is like 3 people

then fucking use VISA you dipshit. Lower fees, and centralized. Even better than BTC with LN.

to be fair you have to have a really high iq to be able to cash out of bitgrail

You guys even more deluded than iota fags and arkies combined. Please go and read how LN actually works before saying more stupid shit like this.

If you think that it means you don't understand how LN works. Bitcoin as we all know it is going down, wave your hand while it disappears in the abyss.

this is gonna be digibyte 2.0

>DGB put me over $100k
>became a millionaire from XRB
Thanks DGB 2.0

guys please I have already x2'd on this fucking coin, I have no idea what's going on, never hit the jackpot as I have with this thing

what should I know before this penetrates the moon? Should I get the XRB off of BitGrail ASAP? Please advise as I have NEVER been on such a moon mission before. Not shilling, legitimately asking, please respond

Put it in raiwallet so you can sell it anywhere when more markets pick it up.

Make an account on Raiwallet, and send it to your Raiwallet address from BitGrail

Also enable 2FA on Raiwallet for added security

Does anyone have any idea about what will happen when Binance or Kucoin will list XRB?

I don't follow the dump theory: why would whales wait for XRB to reach those exchanges when it's already very much possible to manipulate Raiblocks on BitGrail?

yes get it out.

sell right after it gets officially announced that is being added to a major exchange if you are sacred

if you have big balls and want to go to pluto wait for a month after it gets listed

two reasons
first being it will create huge interest and boost the price
second because bitgrail is shit and a pain in the ass and the coin is 100% dead and not going anywhere if whales tried to dump it all on bitgrail

I'm one of the whales. The biggest reason for me is the low withdrawal limit on Bitgrail and Mercatox. I could theoretically get myself verified, sell a lot there, then take out 5 BTC a day, but it would literally take me months to take it all out and there's no way I trust them enough with that much BTC. On the other hand, KuCoin doesn't seem to have a withdrawal limit, and Binance has 100 BTC a day, so I'm waiting for one of those.

That being said, I think there's a lot of people still wanting to get on XRB but don't want to touch Bitgrail or Mercatox, so I personally don't dare predict whether or not the dump will happen. It's just too hard to tell.

Who the fuck just spent $150 on 1 XRB lol

You live on in the archive user.

I had to check, and it’s real. God damn. Not sure if these Dubaifags want it that bad or just don’t know what they’re doing.

Can someone post it?

I had a good chuckle at the fact that the exchange itself couldn't even get the name of the coin they're trading right.

Screencapped him for posterity. 1ETH=5XRB will be considered cheap soon enough.

...delet-user already pointed out that was the order book

Yup. Here's the trade history.

>RailBlocks
rofl, how the fuck are you supposed to take them seriously when they can't even get the most trivial thing right. I can't fucking wait for Binance.

These answers are extremely worrying. If you don't think people will rent $100,000 in EC2 instances to completely stop the network for a day right after opening a huge 10x margin short position then you're a damn fool. Attacking the network could be extremely lucrative so IT WILL BE DONE. It's going to be a whole new level of whale manipulation.

Pretty sure engineer that has worked for AMD and Qualcomm thought of that before.

im going to manipulate your moms esophagus

I'm pretty sure Satoshi wouldn't have enforced network protection by requiring distributed proof of work if he could have gotten away with "PoW? Yeah we'll require like half a million flops per transaction. There's no way anybody would just buy time on a botnet to take the whole damn thing down"

Seriously this "AMD engineer" crap is worse than saying your dad works for Coinbase. As if it's impossible the people behind this know exactly what the flaws are, but choose to ignore them because they intend on exit scamming.

Please stop posting as if you have any idea what you are talking about. The PoW in Raiblocks is just a hash of the last block; it doesn't have to hash under any specific value (i.e. the difficulty criteria in bitcoin, the thing that makes PoW more than a trivial computation).

It's perfectly possible to spam transactions, and it is perfectly possible to double spend. Neither of these issues are addressed adequately in the raiblocks whitepaper.

This should be intuitive to you given that Raiblocks literally has the following setup:

"each user handles their own ledger"

Okay, well intuitively if I am in charge of how much money I have, there is no problem with me literally printing money for myself.

The whitepaper tries to address this by saying nodes will vote on which transactions are valid, but this is not sufficient to address the problem: there is no global order of transactions in a distributed ledger ala bitcoin, hence double spend is not resolved.

Anyone putting money into this just doesn't have the background to understand why Raiblocks is a literal meme-tier "innovation"

This coin will go to 0 once people figure this out. Get your money out ASAP.

t. CS Major working in finance with extensive distributed systems / cryptography knowledge from academia.

Trying to help you anons

Go buy some gay money faggot

Thanks for your help. Bought 100k

if the exchange was created by the dev team why did ceo of the exchange trashtalk the dev team on twitter today?

absolute textbook shitcoin. anyone who is holding bags of a coin literally called "raiblocks" being shilled as the bitcoin killer is a fucking retard

>It works today!
yes it works, but it's not hard to work when you do nothing

Why does it always moon right about now every day?

the devs help exchanges to list it and assist with questions they have nothing to do with bitgrail
the bitgrail CEO is just salty that hes about to get JUST'ed when binance lists XRB

how much growth has this left?
i put in about .13btc at $7 but another .14 a few hours ago

are there any noteworthy dates i should take into consideration? happy leaving half my volume here until i go back into daytrading with the other but i'm not sure there's much point hodling with both halves at this stage

Yea new wallet and site this month. New exchanges in next few weeks.

Gunning fof 500$

was wondering this too, it has had massive growth these few days but seems to have slowed some. I'm wondering just how far this can go IN THE SHORT TERM mainly.

send them proof of a double spend and you can collect the bug bounty in btc. but you won't, because you're just larping.

That would be really stupid. The vuln is worth a significant fraction of the XRB market cap if leveraged correctly.

>risk completely killing the coin and thus your time/money invested by “exploiting” a “vulnerability” you can’t prove exists
>free million $ in BTC if you can prove it does
Hmm, yeah I wonder which is a better idea

best idea: spread fud on an anime imageboard

this