This is what fighting a dragon should feel like

>Dragons are smarter than the smartest wizard
>Dragons are stronger than the strongest fighter

>Dragon sits down on the ground and exchanges blows with nearest human.

No!

Not an ordinary chicken, no. But a chicken of exceptional ability, aided by other exceptional chickens, wielding powers that far exceed the capability of your average chicken? Could these Player Chickens stand a chance?

St. George is actually the size of a skyscraper though. That's a regular-sized dragon.

Georgie boy probably killed a iguana or something. Or maybe the tiny dragon is supoosed to be wales and george's lance is englands cock?

>no one notices that the tiger is fat as fuck

...

Why should only dragons get this treatment?

Where are all the terrifying demons, devils, yugoloths, fallen angels, titans, and whatever?

>overgrown lizards
> a threat
Lmao

No. Making dragons into unbeatable super gods ruins the setting, it makes the question of why these creatures don't control everything, or have any opposition or haven't destroyed the mortal races come up. It ruins any kind of sense of progression to the game, and makes any kind of quest objectives involving dragons a no go zone. Finally; it also fucks around with the preconceptions of the players, a game with dungeons and dragons should let you fight dragons, at least occasionally and as end game threats, but not elder god tier unbeatable monsters.

No- a dragon should be mythologically based. Make them cunning or maybe as smart as a human, with breath weapons but without spells of their own, no human form or disguises, and able to be taken on 1 on 1 by a powerful and skilled Knight.

paperspencils.com/2017/07/23/your-dragons-suck/

Nah, it should feel like this

>people keeping hatchlings with their parents
No. They get about a week, maybe two with chromatics. Hatchlings come out the egg smart as a human and stronger and more maneuverable that most possible natural predators. They got a week to make sure all their shit works then get the fuck out and earn their own way in existence. A metallic may stick around for longer but the same basic idea is there, especially since metallics are known to not be full assholes.

>Dragons in the setting are ungodly powerful but most are complete pacifists
>Games BBEG is one of the few dragons that actually had ambition, committing genocide on the rest of his species and enslaving the world

The vocals are cheesy because I did this in a songwriting competition where collaboration is encouraged. Still, think you guys might like this song I made about an army on the march to say The Dragon. It's a Dragon that has been around for generations, the lyrics start out as a litany that the soldiers presumably have sung with a timid reverence they're whole lives. But now, marching to what they expect shall be their certain doom, the litany has a dark undertone.

m.soundcloud.com/cameron-tetz/to-slay-the-dragon

I plan on doing the vocals myself at some point.

>Implying self-sufficient, intelligent juveniles wouldn't be precocial
BULLY AWAY

Oh yeah, just look at all those fictional dragonslayers like Bard or saint George. They killed their dragons by playing Pictionary.

I'm of the opinion that dragons plural doing anything is too many and misses the point. Don't oversaturate dragons. Things and creatures tangentally related to dragons is fair game, and often makes the significance of the dragon greater.

Nobody should be able to learn to control the forces of the universe by using literal batshit to summon fire, but here we are.

I like this idea. The creature is about as dangerous as a lion or tiger.

...

As someone that's had to check his mats every time he cast a spell, I appreciate that statement.

Depends on system.

Of course, there are players that manage to kill it in those few seconds. Actually happened with a group I know.

Cue battle between a castle and an adult angry dragon

What systems do this right?

Best dragon fight I ever had was in a game of Dungeon World. Dragons in that game are basically immune to most forms of damage, and even though the numbers on hit aren't that big it's suggested you do something like take an arm off, no save, if a player is stupid enough to get hit by one. I'll greentext the story if anyone wants to hear it, but fair warning: the game was light-hearted enough it contains natural 20 bullshit.

How, the system is 2d6?

The whole thing went down in (of all places) Libya. The real kicker is, the Dragon fucking surrendered and was executed in the town square.

'nuff said

Not literally natural twenty, but "you rolled double sixes with a +5 modifier the enemy half orc barbarian is now your husbando" type of deal

Depends on the setting.

Why are Zelda fans literally cancer

Played in a Pendragon campaign, we ended up on guard duty due to a family scandal making other knights suspicious of us (two knights' mothers had mysterious sons after their fathers were dead-Salisbury).

So while we're dicking around in the tower we're guarding, this old man shows up pleading to help us look for his 'friend' the goat. Of course, my char things this old man is crazy but we ultimately relent and go to the hill where he last saw the damn thing. Our tracker sees something in the undergrowth and I'm figuring we're screwed. So when we reach the top of the tall hill, we see the goat and then this huge goddamnn lizard runs out of the undergrowth after it.

This thing tries to eat the goat and out of bravado and sheer stupidity me and the one other knight that stuck around decide to fight it. The tracker would have contributed, but she was pulled away from the table by unforeseen difficulties. It was large enough to slap around fully grown men with limbs and tail. I ended up making dodge rolls against damage, only getting knocked over once or twice. This thing just didn't die.

Nothing we did made it do anything other but attack us for like a half hour. Eventually my character, like me, got tired of this shit, and since for SOME REASON the DM decided to take rolls at the rate they came, my character flew into one of his ever-more-common rages and I just kept on saying whether I hit or missed with my sword attacks, barely stopping before rolling another. The other guy did the same.

Eventually, this actually started working, and the thing tried to flee. "Fuck no," I'm thinking, "This thing dies." So I managed to chase it down and finish it off, breaking my sword off in the process of hacking its head off. My bloodthirsty knight calmed down after that.

Turns out we got tricked by Merlin to fight a very young dragon- I found out after the fact that if we had failed a dodge roll on any of the bite attacks it would have oneshot any of the knights.

I prefer my Dragons with a dash of London Blitz. If the heroes aren't dashing for cover the moment they see a shadow cross the sky, then something's just not right.

The fact that you actually recognized the picture...
Also, not actually a zelda fan, only have one game

Don't underestimate a lot of angry roosters, they know to go for the eyes.

Also, the size difference can give them an advantage in dodging

That encounter is meant to be a two-headed giant. What did you do to piss of your GM to the point he changed it to a Dragon, while you had fewer than the recommended party size?

>experienced troll player is scared shitless
>newbie goblin player taunts the dragon

Such an epic pic

Dragons should kill you very quickly and should die very quickly. Dungeon World sums this up pretty well with the 16 hp dragon post.

But what if I'm a super fucking powerful wizard

Magic > scales

based kitty

I am always surprised by how large wild animals are compared to humans when I see them for real/see a human in the same take.
Look at that killing machine. It's head is 3 times the size of that woman, it's paws are the length and width of her fucking torso almost. It probably weighs like 150-250 kilos. Monstrous.

>DAS RITE
>WE WUZ DINOSAURS AN SH-
>SHIT! SHIT!

From owning a couple rhacodactylus leachianus geckos, I know exactly how to distract dragons.

Wave something shiny in front of them while making weewoo noises to distract them, then start petting their fat bulges.

I understood that reference. Favorite webcomic.

I would wager a Dragon would be more related to Dinos or Avians than lizards.

Also it depends of the feel of the game. A more or less plausible fantasy with not so crazy power levels (like the ones you can play with BRP), where characters could die from infections and resurection is in the realm of the gods, a dragon and his family is truly a Scary being, best fought in indirect ways like poisoned bait and the likes,and be groups of dedicated dragon slayers if they are in the comon side. I really like to steal from Monster Hunter for dragon/big monsters ideas because they feel more primal and fun to fight, but they tend to be faux dragons and even then I reduce them in size. The few true ones, are Smaug tier in intelligence and power, each one able to destroy minor kingdoms.

Man, every time I hear about Pendragon it's good.

>I take all my knowledge about fighting from D&D mechanics
I'm going to bet you are an overweight armchair martial artist.

I'll just leave this here.

youtube.com/watch?v=XxowRJySpxs

?

Aw, he dead.

infinite spell component pouches are such a cheap thing. A part of being a wizard used to be accounting for materials and obtaining them when necessary. Mid quest if need be.

But what about in a game where the PCs are explicitly Dragonhunters? Where the entire point of the game is that all the characters are heroes or PCs from previous games that all joined a secret army preparing for the invasion of dragons that is going to conquer the world.

Should they be afraid if the whole point is killing Dragons? Sure the first couple were scary as they hadn't fought dragons before but now I'm lulling them into a false sense of security about them before the Ancient Dragons and Wyrms show up

>Wave something shiny in front of them
checks out.

GUYS, WE FOUND A WAY TO DISTRACT DRAGONS, BRING OUT THE GOLD SHEET

>Implying they don't control everything in my setting
>Implying my players aren't la resistance

>I take all my knowledge about fighting from D&D mechanics but pretend to be a know-it-all to call out other people on things I consider wrong
Have you ever tried to catch some creature the size of a cat? Or dodge one the size of a bull?

Give her the dick

Spawn a brood of new hatchlings

>Proceeds to carry it off and impale it on a spike to impress potential mates

Dragons have magic too, but they're have longer to practice it

a chicken with 20 fighter levels could put up a pretty good fight though

Saint George doesn't give a fuck

If you're a dragon you have already lost

Because D&D needs an optional ruleset that caps out at level 5 and everything else doesnt get more HP, just weirder or strong abilities/immunities, etc

Pls no bulli the winged snek

Better play another game at that point. Very easy to find a most balanced or fun one.

I did that but instead of a dragon it was a 40 foot tall fallen angel with three blind faces, forced to be a quadruped and with all its six wings chopped off

Because

1-not all dragons are evil. Even in myth (notably Eastern myths) dragons can be good. D&D in particular seems to take this cue

2- dragons arent the only superintelligent thing in the setting. A dragon is powerful, but if a Lich decides he wants that mountain for his lair, and the dragon wants it for his roost, or the dragon hoard has a magic artifact, then next thing you know you have a local apocalypse-tier blood fued

3- dragons in some settings have divine purpose, and thus may be dormant and await orders

4- dragons may be lazy and really, really hate the organization aspect of governance. They like POWER, not bureaucratic tasks.

5- there may be a cosmic Yin-Yang effect, where the creation of great evil also leads to the creation of great heroes, depending on the setting. Thus a dragon, though powerful, may be doomed to fail long-term as the universe corrects itself.

Dnd dragons are shit, dnd shat on everything tolken by making it his entire universe "balanced"

FIND OUT NEXT TIME ON DRAGON BALL Z

I don't even think this is conscious bait. More like some supreme retardation.

it has enough clues that a blind man could've figured it out.

I thought I was the only one who hated draconic supergods. I’m relieved to learn that I’m not alone.

At the same time though, older editions were built more about exploration than roleplay or combat, so the wizard taking a moment to collect bat guano or pieces of copper made sense and didn't divert too much attention away from dungeon delving.

In modern editions though, you're basically expected to go from one combat scenario to the other in order to gain enough XP to level up and gain more abilities to kill stronger monsters until the GM decides "hey, it's over, go home" and taking time away from combat (especially for one subset of classes that pull the most weight) no longer flies because everyone else will be bored waiting for them to get their spell components.

>But a chicken of exceptional ability, aided by other exceptional chickens, wielding powers that far exceed the capability of your average chicken? Could these Player Chickens stand a chance?
>Don't underestimate a lot of angry roosters, they know to go for the eyes.
>Also, the size difference can give them an advantage in dodging
>Have you ever tried to catch some creature the size of a cat?
Indeed, a reminder that people have died in Cockfights where they attach blades to the Rooster's feet.
You all fear freaking GEESE for their strength and hellmouths, but Gallus gallus retained it saurian spurs and claws.

FELINED

Okay, addressing the OPs idea I think it should be more contextual. A dragon should be ABLE to make the players feel like that in the right circumstances, but in the right circumstances should also be readily taken down.

I've got a game going where the players have encountered a few dragons because they live near dragon territory. They successfully took on a middle aged red dragon with the help of pitting it against a nearby gold dragon and bringing outright siege weapons like a trebuchet to the fight.

At the same time I have an encounter set up where a young adult dragon just sleeps in a set of icy ruins and if awoken would fly out of range and hurl icy breath weapons at them in a nearly coverless ruin while they have no real means of dealing serious damage back.

Context.

No hairless ape with bad senses who understood what tigers evolved to eat would sit calmly with their back to one.

>Have you ever tried to catch some creature the size of a cat?
Yes. The trick is to use bait, or set traps.
For example, cats can be attracted by meat, or you can simply set out a cardboard box and wait quietly nearby.

>Or dodge one the size of a bull?
This is literally a sport.

>Everything should be like real-life and you can't have powerful/near unbeatable creatures because I read an article.

There are tons of mythological monsters that are unbeatable, even Tolkien had to deus ex machina his dragon.

Literally retarded or are you pretending?

>Everything should be like real-life and you can't have powerful/near unbeatable creatures because I read an article.

I think he was saying

>nothing should be game breakingly powerful, because games shouldn't be broken by shit in the monster manual

>even Tolkien had to deus ex machina his dragon

That doesn't make it a good thing?

>this guy used a shit trope that he could only stop from destroying the plot by pulling some shit out of his ass, so instead of doing something smart and not asinine, I'll just do his thing cause its popular

I mean I guess all you fuckers do is parrot tolkien anywayw

literally happened in my adventure, but it was a hag

Troll had bad experience with hags, so I seized the chance, and played her up (without changing her stats) to near-elder god level

>to near-elder god level
How?

>Saint George has no set size
>Whenever a dragon terrorizes the world Saint George appears from seemingly nowhere
>His size is set at significantly larger than the dragon in question
>After he slays the dragon he vanishes to reappear when needed

Sounds like a shit setting

shrikes are born pre-drenched in the blood of their victims

>Samefag unnecesarrily to try and change base argument instead of admitting mistake or putting forth good argument.
>Takes one example of an author who barely influenced TTRPG as the be-all end-all and ignores the entirety of ancient greece and all cultures in general.
>Again tries to claim having powerful creatures is bad despite trying to shift argument.
Whew.

Ok, moron.

>Party was being chased by bandits on
>Where there was once desert, there is now a swamp
>Party horses collapse out of exhaustion, dead (a weird medicine was used to make the horses run themselves to death
>Atmosphere is eerie, little sound is heard

>In the middle of swamp is a cottage
>Cottage door opens, and out comes a very beautiful lady with a tray of cookies
>"Hello dears, who wants a cookie?!"
>Party troll cries "HAG!"
>Ask him if his character actually said that
>He hurriedly says no. enjoyingThisWayTooMuch.jpg

>Noob tries to shoot her with a bow
>"YOU IDIOT!!" cries the troll who previously killed two players due to forgetting that thunder wave was an aoe
>Attack grazes the lady
>Illusion shifts subtly, showing her true form for an instant, not enough to be recognized
>She disappears (invisible), and appears behind noob, smacking him, then disappears back to her original position, asking again if anyone wants a cookie

Ok, not elder god level, but the troll and noob never wanted to touch a hag again, which I consider an achievement

I don't know. I don't know if he fudged rolls to keep us alive, this is the first time any of us have been in a campaign. I got 500 Glory for dealing the killing blow, though, so I'm not complaining.

Not the other guy, but personally I prefer when a party has to get clever about how they take down their foe. Brute forcing one should be a Herculean effort, where surprising the dragon by how clever the tiny hairless apes can be seems more fitting. Things like the story of the girl who was one of a series of sacrifices about to be made, that instead convinced it to start with an appetizer of a couple cows before setting loose dozens of hunting dogs upon what we'd consider a young adult, letting them harry the now somewhat more sluggish dragon in it's cave while she snuck up to land on the beast's back with a sturdy and sharp blade and begin chopping into it. Or like the suicidal man whose village was in danger, and as such commissioned a suit of spiked armor and hid in a barrel of ale that was part of the next sacrifice to a dragon, using it's own gluttony to make it swallow and choke on him as he burst from the barrel it swallowed whole and thrashed about it's throat. Plans where it all involves using the dragon's assumptions of it's own superiority against their lessers, or their own assumptions of invulmerability to the efforts of man, against it are a personal preference.

*a Pendragon campaign

Not even wrong.

I always felt that MG has a fucking great potential as something between knights slaying dragons and honest-to-god kaiju action.

fixed it for you OP