/swg/ - Sound and Music Edition

That doesn't even sound like a completely bad idea.

Because quarren are scum
t. Mon Cal

He's just upset he can't build ships that don't look like pickles with tumors.

Chlorine shock the quarren
Race war now

Alternatively:
youtube.com/watch?v=np8GaFHD9Lg

Not much really, in space they were basically less effective but 0 crew IPVs or Guardians.

In atmosphere they were higher altitude versions of floating fortresses.

How are the clones organized into legions? What were the size of them? How many clones were in one? How many battalions? etc etc

Trying to find this out because my players want to go through the hell that is the Clone wars

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic/Legends

Grand Army—10 systems armies, a total of 3,000,000 units, with Supreme Chancellor Palpatine as Commander-in-Chief.[19] The number 3,000,000 was Sifo-Dyas' initial order, as the number of total clones increased during the war.[4]
Systems Army—2 Sector Armies (294,912 units) led by a High Jedi General.[19][4]
Sector Army—4 corps (147,456 units) led by a Senior Jedi General.[19][4]
Corps/Division—4 legions (36,864 units) led by a marshal commander and a Jedi General.[19][4]
Legion/Brigade—4 regiments (9,216 units) led by a senior commander and a Jedi General.[19][4]
Regiment—4 battalions (2,304 units) led by a regimental commander and a Jedi Commander.[4]
Battalion—4 companies (576 units) led by a battalion commander and major.[4]
Company—4 platoons (144 units) led by a captain.[19][4]
Platoon—4 squads (36 units) led by a lieutenant, second lieutenant, and sergeant-major.[4]
Squad—9 units led by a sergeant and corporal.[4]

youtube.com/watch?v=BPwZaQfoIbU

That's real fucking nito

Thanks user

It'd be interesting if they turned one into an AA platform, or artillery or something.

youtube.com/watch?v=80XAJKqRU9k

Also worth considering

Oh I like them two, I think some warlords definitely used it in more exotic roles, I've been thinking of things like that recently.

They'd make a nice terror weapon deployed enmass or a way of having an Imperial Warlord dominate a world with a small expenditure of resources.

Surprised you can't fit a Cloaking Device on one.

What I wish it was
>youtu.be/siwpn14IE7E

What it be
youtube.com/watch?v=D9I4nZx8UCs

How would you stat a Spurdomech?

Same as any other Astromech, except it uses its sensors to see what underpants you're wearing and instead of fixing anything there's a lot of inappropriate touching beforehand.
Also no one has any idea what the little fucker is saying, but we suspect its disgusting and juvenile

How strong are Jedi in FFG RPGs?

roughly balanced with non-jedi, arguably weaker (some non-force combat classes can get ridiculously strong)

way more balanced than SAGA where Jedi overshadow everyone once they hit mid level

Not too bad, they scale fairly well in terms of comparative abilities next to their non-sensitive characters.
They are slow starters but once they get a few powers, some discipline ranks and a lightbat they'll keep up just fine... you can always use your force powers, just take the darkside pips and some strain!

Armada is a strategic, long-term planning oriented battleship game. Legion is a typical platoon scale wargame with a polished ruleset.

Armada is about $200 to get into, including the core set. You'll have to check facebook or your FLGS for a group. Legion is around $130-$200 to get into, varying widely based on the list you choose to run and whether you can find somebody to swap you halves of the core set. Add on more if you're buying terrain. Hard to anticipate where groups will or won't be, or exactly how popular it'll be on launch.

Personally, I love Armada best of all wargames, and don't see any reason to think that'll change, but Legion looks like fun and I've got the income and free time to do both.

I feel like Legion could work with Infinity terrain

What is the role of small warships in Star Wars? Do they have a knockout punch like WW2 destroyers with torpedoes? Or are they more of an AA screen like WW2 destroyers toward the end of the war?

I don't see why not.

A mix of AA screen, target saturation, and the fact that turbolasers can really hit well above their weightclass once enemy shields are down.

Not causing the collateral damage that a Star Destroyer or larger vessel might cause.

Also, there are situations where you likely want a smaller vessel at your command.

For instance, you don't send a Mandator or an Imperial II to do the job a Carrack or CR-30 might do better.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't smaller craft able to make use of a Cloaking Device better due to the fact their profile and signature isn't as big?

>Also, what terrain would look good for making a table for legion?
Generic WWII stuff with huge satellite dishes and other bits of sci-fi guff glued to it. That’s the whole Star Wars ascetic.

Depends on the exact class and configuration.

A CR90 corvette is incredibly modular, you can easily turn it into a fast attack ship with light turbos and torpedo launchers to rush enemy ships, or make them pocket carriers with anti-fighter configurations to act as escorts or screens, and so on.

Generally, you see light ships as, gunships who provide support fire to hit more targets or hit a single target more, escorts who can keep away enemy fighters and gunships and report on larger ship movements, or even Light Cruising vessels, which are meant to be self-sufficient for a mission of a smaller size.

Thanks. Wannabe writefag trying to get a coherent idea of SW space combat because I'd like to do technothriller-esque story where equipment capabilities are meaningful to the plot. Not necessarily to the level of detail that went into something like The Dance of the Vampires, but somewhat on that side of the spectrum.

For a good grasp of just what a light ship can do in ideal conditions, read Wraith Squadron. The final battle is pretty damn good.

Smaller size means smaller mass, which can mean better thrust:weight and agility. Even with inertial dampeners and repulsors and the like, an ISD is a fuckton of mass you need to move if it has to change course or something.

A CR90 on the other hand is small enough to do some dancing in the right situations and were called "Blockade Runners" because they had a lot of zoom compared to fat imperial arrowheads.

I mean what I'm having trouble imagining is how the classes of ships, from starfighters to capital ships relate to each other. Mentally, it feels like one class tends to obsolete another when I try to think critically about them, especially starfighters and small warships.

They're sort of like your WW1-2 squadron formations in that they're primarily there to take hits and keep stuff from being able to close with line vessels, so in that sense they're AA and 'gun boats' mostly with various lasers, flack and other shooty bits hanging off them. Some of the more specialised smaller vessels do direct interdiction (the 418) and a handful will also have torpedos (CR92a) to fend off big things coming in to touch that booty.

In terms of their secondary uses, they're easier to park on planets to unleash hordes of white clad idiots with guns and in space they do also give you 'coverage' in a sense that if your squadrons are spread out, you get forewarning on their sensors which will enable a more calculated response in kind if something starts coming in to do a strike. So you 'could' put an ISD into that role of picket duties, but from an economic and strategic sense, if it gets jumped on and damaged- that's an expensive asset being wrecked, if its just a little corvette or frigate, not so much of a loss.
To some extent TIE fighters also form a picket screen on the cheap, having them out on ranging patrols means that even if they do (when they do) get smoked by the bad guys, at least you know where they are.

>one class tends to obsolete another
You also have to think about price and availability. Star Destroyers are powerful but they're very expensive and rarer than, say, a CR90. Small warships are also seemingly much easier to customize for specialized duties on the fly. A CR90 hull is a versatile, modular platform capable of acting in a variety of roles--diplomatic envoy, AA platform, cheap turbolaser truck, sub-light ram, or even pocket carrier. With the right mods, CR90s can also achieve relatively high sub-light speeds, as we saw with Raymus Antilles' personal CR90 before he switched to command of the Tantive IV. Neb-Bs are able to work as dedicated medical ships, pocket carriers, expendable redshirts, etc. Carracks can do AA and turbolasering equally well, IIRC. Small warships will always have a place thanks to their relative ease of acquisition and modification. And thanks to their numbers, wolf packs of smaller ships can cover a lot more space than a single big ship.

A starfighter with a remotely competent pilot can fly circles around any number of large capital ships. There's just too many small gaps in the firing envelope and handing off targets from one battery to another is almost non existant. Smaller cap ships exist to provide a more nimble and flexible force with clearer firing lines for small starfighters and other quick vessels. Medium caps are for hunting smaller caps and pursuit, sometimes special tasks such as strikes on sensitive aspects of a larger capital, such as shields or life support, or being the command ship when a large capital vessel is infeasible or wasteful.

I mean like, if starfighters are really good a cracking little vessels, why not just build battleships and carriers, or starfighter-carrying battleships. Alternatively, if small warships are good at swatting down starfighters (assuming both can bring an equal punch to a battleship if they have numbers), why not just build battleships and destroyers. This analysis, is of course, in a very broad sense.

Some Armada players can probably do you a little better in terms of what ships are supposedly good at what (and say, why you bother with Hammerheads or CR90 corvettes when you could take more big moncal murderpickles), But, here's some cliffsnotes about the real ship types you might see related to star wars.

So a Corvette is the lightest type of "rated" warship. These were made most originally to fight small battles, patrol coasts and support larger fleets. In modern terms, they're mostly either coastal patrol ships (In SW anything "coastal" can be relegated to mean "near planetary") or "Fast Attack Craft" - which are armed with anti-ship weapons and have good speed because of their lightness, but lack range due to small size. Their advantage is that they are much cheaper to build, depending on your needs you can get just as many guns as buying a single larger ship.

A Frigate historically is a lightly armed ship built to be maneuverable and fast. It is not powerful enough to fight in the "line of battle", but has advantage of being useful for escorts and patrols. Modern use is often as merchant, convoy or other specialized ship escorts who have the task of safeguarding against more troublesome craft (usually Anti-Submarine). The frigate doesn't have as much punch as "battleships", but is much lighter and can be equipped for specialized roles.

It's important to note, some countries also use "Frigate" to refer to "Destroyer". In Star Wars, we should also assume this concentration, since Star Destroyers are the heaviest, beefiest ships. A Destroyer is similarly a light, fast ship whose role is almost entirely originated to protect other ships from powerful, short-range attackers (Torpedo Boats), not necessarily slug it out with enemy heavies. Modern destroyers are good because they have guided missiles, so they form the backbone of any RL navy, but since SW loves cannons you don't see these missile focused ships as much, though they're super flexible.

Is FFG going to have battlecruiser sized ships added to Star Wars: Armada in the near future? While playing a game with my cousin I made the case that it's inevitable for the Imperial faction, since most large ships besides the Imperial-class are battlecruisers. Obviously large changes to the game would happen like a points increase, and the Rebels have a lack of similar vessels, but aside from the Tector-class, what else does the Empire have that isn't a battlecruiser or larger?

Nebulon B2, Dreadnought.

Are commanding officers not included in the unit count?

I think you should look for a different setting.

That's a logistical problem, rather than hard dollaroos for the Empire.
You need dedicated slipyards and the resources of many systems to make the really big ships, a well developed system by itself + small amount of external resources can make smaller ships under its own power. In addition, you can have them both being built at the same time, so while your big slips are churning out big ships, every other place that can is making escort sized ships.

Carriers are also not quite 'a thing' in SW yet, they exist but not at the level of tactical advantage that they did in say 1942

The closest in setting is the Black Fleet Crisis, where the writer just skimmed the setting's fluff and wrote whatever the hell he wanted.

It's a matter of covering all your bases because you never know what your opponent's packing and because it's never quite so cut-and-dry. Different warships, even within the same "weight class," can have wildly varying capabilities and armaments. You want to make sure you don't leave the opponent any openings. You bring an ISD to take and dish out turbolaser hits in slugging matches with Mon Cals, but you need Lancers and Carracks to supplement its meager AA because you might not have loaded up on a pure TIE/LN or pure TIE/IN fighter wing. You might have packed some TIE Bombers, which you need to discourage pesky Rebel ships of the line from maneuvering into your ISD's vulnerable rear arc. But you also need some TIE/INs and LNs to escort those bombers because the Carracks and Lancers aren't fast enough to keep up with your TIEs and aren't small enough to dodge turbolaser fire from the enemy Mon Cal. Plus, they might be busy dealing with incoming letter-wings.

>most large ships besides the Imperial-class are battlecruisers.

And they're aaaalllllll non-canon. Mostly.

>A Frigate historically is a lightly armed ship built to be maneuverable and fast. It is not powerful enough to fight in the "line of battle", but has advantage of being useful for escorts and patrols. Modern use is often as merchant, convoy or other specialized ship escorts who have the task of safeguarding against more troublesome craft (usually Anti-Submarine). The frigate doesn't have as much punch as "battleships", but is much lighter and can be equipped for specialized roles.

But in Star Wars, everything is operating in the same medium. A stealth ship is more like a stealth fighter than a submarine.

>It's important to note, some countries also use "Frigate" to refer to "Destroyer". In Star Wars, we should also assume this concentration, since Star Destroyers are the heaviest, beefiest ships

Granted, but as I mentioned below, in terms of fleet engagements, if starfighters are too good at cracking vessels, you'll want large capital ships with the shields to withstand the beating and guns to swat them down. If small ships are too good at swatting down starfighters (and which have a good anti-ship punch with their turbolasers), then why not just build battleships and small warships (because you need stuff to cruise, escort merchant vessels, and so on where a battleship is too important).

So is the Assault Frigate Mk 2.

(cont)

Cruiser is a term which has been around a long time, and evolved. It referred more to a class of missions than ships originally, long-range operations of multiple sorts. This does mean though that having different types of "Cruiser" makes sense, they do different things - the key theme is they do "cruising" away from port and even away from a main fleet, raids and patrols most common. While they've phased out mostly, the Cruisers that remain are mostly doing destroyer-type roles, only less fast and more beef. Some cruisers have been specialized to attack surface or air targets as well, but the Soviet strategy to deal with US carrier groups was to use cruisers to saturate fire.

"Light Cruiser" is a term which is basically obsolete in real life, but for a period around the World Wars, referred to smaller but well armored cruising vessels. These have some of the punch-up and protection advantages of cruisers, but had advantages in being smaller in size and cheaper than the big sisters, though not as maneuverable as a Frigate or Destroyer. They can also screen an escort against frigates and destroyers also. Heavy Cruiser is a term coined by naval treaties, it's like a Cruiser, but bigger, but is not a Battleship.

Will read. Haven't done much beyond Thrawn and some of the Rogue and Wraith novels.

Fantasy Flight Games can use whatever ships it wants like the Assault Frigate Mark II, Gladiator-class Star Destroyers, or MC30c Frigates.

The K-Wings in the book carry rail guns and other kinetic weapons. Also, it's pretty much a thinly veiled version of Debt of Honor with Han Solo and Luke Skywalker.

K-Wings had no railguns, they attacked an antiorbital hypervelocity railgun using massive ion bombs and a mix of proton and flechette torpedoes.

(cont more)

Battleships are your big dick. They show off you can build a big ship with thick armor and big fucking guns. Origin is contraction of ship-of-the-line and line-of-battle, vessels with big fucking broadsides which will wreck the shit out of the guy on the receiving end. Their range and number of guns means they blow the shit out of enemy cruisers who come "cruising" in your AO, but do not necessarily have the agility to get out of the way when fast attack craft come at you. And if you have more Battleships than the other guy, your battleships can bully their battleships. They are often hybridized in SW with Carriers to make up for the fact that historically Battleships were weak to air attack as well. Since the rise of the carrier, the last battleships were relegated to shore bombardment duty. This also makes sense in SW, your light fast escorts may not be toting the right long range guns to inspire terror in your enemies or offer ground support.

Battlecruiser is a similarly now obsolete term, basically a "fast battleship". Capable of cruising and doing long range missions like recon, support, pursuit and commerce protection because they hit like a battleship. But they don't take hits like one, so a lot of them got scratched when their armor was too light or they couldn't bring their speed to bear. So they were redesigned, some with aircraft hangars and catapults. Their speed makes them okay escorting, but even in WW2 they weren't quite dodgy enough to beat air bombardment. Some were designed as "cruiser-killers" specifically to use the speed for hunting enemy ships.

I could swear they had some sort of wing mounted kinetic weapon in one engagement, but I'll admit it's been a while since I've read the series.

Probably the Flechette torpedoes

200$ to play a sample game. 500$ minimum to build a serious list unless you like 100% buy only what you need and go for the cheapest option. Plus table, accessories, and sleeves.

Tried to read this as a seven year old kid and.. well it was a weird experience.

The takeaway here is that naval warfare is like RPS, but with more options. You want to be the fastest, you can't have the biggest guns or heaviest armor, and vice versa. So you have to balance everything out. Battleships (What ISD-level ships do) can blow the shit out of any ship or ground in range, but if the enemy has a lot of much cheaper ships who can evade or engage en masse (Bombers or FACs) then blowing up a few of them costs the enemy way less than it costs you to lose a ship of 1.6 km in length.

So you build fast escort ships who can intercept these lighter attack craft at range and blow them up just as good, and keep your expensive, heavy hitters from harm. And then the other guy builds anti-ship boats to kill your escorts and open a path, so you need to move your battleships and heavy cruisers into range to blow those guys the fuck up so they don't strip your escort, etc. It's impossible to build a ship which does everything, so you need to balance ship composition.

>But in Star Wars, everything is operating in the same medium.

Irrelevant. SW does skip the U-boat element, but the point is Frigates can be specialized to different tasks, as can be Destroyers (which are also sometimes Frigates). The Lancer-class frigate is covered in more AA guns to kill more fighters, but cannot then slug with anti-ship ships. Because the empire doesn't need anti-ship sluggers, they have plenty of Heavy Cruisers and Battleship type ships, but because this is space WW2, point defense is still bad.

It's one of those stories where aside from the crazy overpowered faction, it's not a bad idea in itself. A xenophobic species decides to go full murderbone on anything in it's neighborhood. Unfortunately, it's clear the author never actually saw Star Wars, since he makes Leia into a Tom Clancy knock kneed liberal who won't be mean to the creepy ayys and can't tell the Senate to sit down and shut the fuck up while grown folks were talking. Plus y'know, like 4 SSDs belonged to these assholes.

I need to find an orchestral cover of Danger Zone for my upcoming AoR game.
I just want to see how long it takes them to notice

Gladiator is canon

$200 included necessary accessories, and gets you a viable, full 400 point list. Not ruthlessly optimized, but not hopelessly outmatched, and not by any means a "simpler" version of Armada.

Sleeves are on you regardless of game. A table is $20 of plywood and felt and an hour of time.

$500 buys you almost everything ever released for both factions.

And that's all MSRP, before FLGS or online discounts.

I just remember something about Lumpawarrump swinging from trees and a guy named Barf getting his face beaten in

Lol no it doesnt. Maybe one copy of about 75% of stuff. Players at the store have like 5 of each ship.

>he makes Leia into a Tom Clancy knock kneed liberal who won't be mean to the creepy ayys and can't tell the Senate to sit down and shut the fuck up while grown folks were talking.
I do not recall that.

>Plus y'know, like 4 SSDs belonged to these assholes.
Only one that I know of, and a decent fleet of normal ISDs and the like.

Black fleet crisis or dark nest trilogy?

Lies

I own one of every ship for only one faction, with one exception. I regularly win or place in tournaments.

Just because players at the store own 5x of everything doesn't mean you have to own 5x of everything to play the game at their level. The players at the store are the people playing every week who want to be able to run every possible permutation of list because some days you just want to field 4 MC30s. Not being able to run the 4 MC30 list and the 6 CR90 list and the 2 Liberty list doesn't mean you can't beat those lists.

>I do not recall that.
The entire first book she spends time meeting with Nil Spaar and buys most of what he says and orders her intelligence chief to not activate listening devices in the meeting room because it would cause political tensions. There's also the part where she won't send the NR Navy near the Yevetha while the latter are wiping out whole species because reasons.

>Black fleet crisis or dark nest trilogy?
Why not both?

The Yevetha were far from OP.

They just got lucky and used desperation tactics and deception the New Republic was not expecting.

>The entire first book she spends time meeting with Nil Spaar and buys most of what he says and orders her intelligence chief to not activate listening devices in the meeting room because it would cause political tensions.
Well that's just diplomatic kindness.

>There's also the part where she won't send the NR Navy near the Yevetha while the latter are wiping out whole species because reasons.
Wasn't the issue that by the time they'd learned that the Senate was really not in the mood for war since technically some of the worlds were unaligned/Imperial?

>blow up one rebel planet after a ton of deliberation and only because assaulting it would take too long
>IMPS LOVED KILLING PLANETS GUYS HORRIBLE PEOPLE

w e w l a d

Hello Impfag. Don't you have a forum dedicated to jerking off over the Empire?

(You)

Speaking of Impfaggotry, post your favorite chill/badass Imperials.

Found the terrorist supporter, how do you approve of Saw Gerrera's actions?

Dark Greetings.

He has no chill.

I know. He's so unchill that he loops back around to being chill. Ham is just his natural state of being.

...

they must be or the numbers are out by thousands eventually.

Assuming a Rebel fleet managed to get its hands on a Venator, how useful of an asset would it be?

Not very since Venators died faster than ISDs did.

Maybe as a mobile repair and refit yard for snubfighters it might be useful, but most of the Rebel fleet is hyperdrive capable, so a big carrier probably isn't worth it.

Real good. It doesn't have as much slugging power as an ISD, but it does have way more dedicated hangar space which is useful to rebels who use Fighters to force project. The problem would be keeping it out of being beat up on by imperial cruisers and battleships.

It would be a relatively poor direct battle asset. But they can serve as a decent base if they devote some of the hanger bay to repair /construction pods.
On the other hand it can run away.

>It doesn't have as much slugging power as an ISD

It did at one point.

> The Venator-class's eight heavy dual turbolaser turrets were its main weapons and had two tracking modes. In its precise, long-range tracking mode, the DBY-827 could hit a target vessel at a range of ten light minutes. During close-range fights, the turrets could rotate in three seconds with their fast-tracking mode.[1] In terms of firepower, these weapons rivaled the main battery on the later Imperial I-class Star Destroyers.

> Despite possessing powerful weaponry and being on par with the Victory-class, the Venator-class was designed with an additional starfighter carrier role in mind. Its hangars were far larger than those on other Star Destroyers like the Victory-class and later models like the Imperator/Imperial-class.[1]

>In terms of firepower, these weapons rivaled the main battery on the later Imperial I-class Star Destroyers.
A single battery.

Vindicators, strikes, eidlon strikes, carracks, etc.