What if the Emperor didn't nuke Monarchia?

What if the Emperor didn't nuke Monarchia?

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Then the word bearers might have stayed loyal, or at worst suffered a schism where Erebus and kor whatsit awaken compliant world to rebellion and herest after triggering horus.

>suffered a schism
Don't Legions follow the Primarch?

The Fallen and Luther are totally a thing, so not always 100% true.

...

The Fallen are good guys though.

When you have groups of fanatical cults inside the legion, chances are they're going to follow their cult leaders, not their Primarch if he's an apostate and worships what they see as a false god that's the enemy of their own.

If the Emperor:
Didn`t nuke Monarchia
Left Angron to die.
Didn`t sent the furries to get Magnus but Malcador as a diplomat.
Showed up in Olympia and said how much he appreciate Perturabo´s work and maybe put an statue of him in some streets of Terra.

The Horus Heresy would have been a non-event.

>Left Angron to die
Or sent down his legion to fight with him. He might still devolve into a crazed berserker but he'd have the loyalty to at least know to die for big papa. Or if the emps had just removed the fucking nails

Srsly, what's the fucking deal with the nails, one would suspect that Big E had the technology around to fix brain damage.

Every few weeks I have to explain this. Master of Mankind shows us that the major problem is not so much turning the nails off or removing them. Its that a shocking amount of Angron's brain is simply GONE and replaced by the nails. Removing them would potato him- and in earlier threads before this was known we simply knew that Big daddy E never made his boys to be fucked with so when somebody did..well, it was beyond even a literal living god to undo the damage to his utterly unique, lightning in a bottle creation. Plus Dark age tech really might just gave been beyond him

Then potato the fucker until you can remake his brain.

So he needs those nails to think ?
Doesn't have the mechanicus, you know the guys that think that machines are magic, have brain implants ?
We are literally on a good way right now to deal with brain damage.
So the only thing holding the statement up is "the plot demands it".

Really, he went without that guy for decades, a few years of brain surgery are a heartbeat for emps or his his mechanicus stand-in back then.

Why? MoM really does a number on the whole "loving man-god" Emp calls angron by his frigging number and explains that even damaged he'll be more useful in the field.

From what I read, yes. The nails are both destroying him and form the base for his brain function. Lastly I have three words I should have shared sooner.
>Dark Age Relic
From the period where mankind's technology was at its apex. When we where more advanced then the Tau and more then likely bordered on Dark eldar levels of bullshit. The nails are technology that predates the emperor's rise to power. They're on a whole other level to the tech-priest's crude augments

>Why?
So you have a tactical genius rather than a stupid asshole. So that you don't have the one primarch whom you know for a fact hates you from the very outset of your interaction with him also devolve into a instinctual beast who could very well fuck over your own forces out of hatred for you.

>the whole "loving man-god" Emp calls angron by his frigging number
Wasn't the setting already edgy enough ?

Not potato him, they would actually kill him if removed. Most of his brain was gone and replaced by the Nails, so he can't really rebuild the brain, because the Nails are there. Similarly, he can't remove the nails, rebuild the brain, and then bring him back from the dead, because it would take too long.

Remember that by this point, the Emperor has presumably already lost two of his sons. Keeping Angron around was a risk, but he didn't want to lose a third.

The Nails are some fucking hardcore DAoT science shit. Emps could only speculate at what they were doing by looking at the symptoms and scans, and even then he needed to check with other people to make sure his hypothesis was accurate.

>more then likely bordered on Dark eldar levels of bullshit
Unlikely. The Dark Eldar pull suns into Commorragh for rave lighting.

Commorragh seems to be pretty big.

>MoM really does a number on the whole "loving man-god" Emp calls angron by his frigging number
I don't see the problem with this. The Emprah is alive for at least 30k years, even if he had spend every day of the Great Crusade with his sons that would be around 300 years. That's nothing for him. He won't give a fuck for his sons even if he wanted. For him the Primarchs are just barely above Space Marines, and it seems that they don't met his expectations. That's why he didn't care about the civil war and imo another reason for why he was so ok with the HH is because that would have wiped most of the legions so he could replace them with superior warriors, maybe the Primaris. Then he could make (forgive me for this) Primaris Primarchs and so on and on.

The Emperor always seems very dissapointed with the SM and the Primarchs. For him there was little difference between Angron and Dorn, one was a loyal dog, the other a mad dog. The could keep them both as watch dogs, one slept at his feet, the other in the junkyard, buth both was mere tools to watch out his house while he worked.

The Emperor's end state was to have your average human at Custodes level but also a Psyker.

So he was just an all-powerfull autist who choose humanity as his hobby ?

DESU I'm getting more and more convinced that the Emperor isn't as old as we think he is. The fact that such a big deal is made about him travelling to Molech to make a deal with the Chaos Gods & get his superpowers begs the question of what he was like beforehand, and timeline-wise that could only have been a few thousand years before the Great Crusade at most, since Big E mainly did that to gain knowledge of how to make the Primarchs.

So what was Big E up to, if anything, during the DAoT, when mankind had the best chance of utterly dominating the galaxy? Psykers were seemingly unknown to DAoT mankind right before the Age of Strife, so was the Emperor just an anomaly, or not even around at the time? The fact that he seems to be familiar with the Perpetuals hints that he likely was one earlier, but it doesn't imply he's always had the powers or ambition we see him with in 30k.

Yes. His autism is actually so strong, he sat on Golden Throne for ten k years in constant pain and concentration just because he refuses to let go.

He was born in the year 3300 BC in western turkey. Cain and Abel were his uncle and dad, respectively. He had a bit of psychic power, but not much at that time.

>3300 BC

Wasn't it around 8000 BC?

>Emp calls angron by his frigging number
Yes and no, actually. Whether that's what the Emperor is actually saying or not is actually uncertain, because the scene is told from the perspective of a Mechanicum representative (Arkhan Land). And while Land sees the Emperor as a scientist, his auditory implant is called out as not always registering the Emperor speaking, even though he can "hear" him. Similarly, great emphasis is placed on the Emperor acting and reacting how Land expects him to react. Land expects his voice to be inhuman, toneless. And that's what he hears. He expects to see a particular style of laboratory ("a mix of science and the disorder common to geniuses"), and that's what he sees. He expects the Emperor to wear the laboratory clothing of a scientist, and that's what he sees. He expects him to be dispassionate, and again, that's what he gets.

Basically, he is viewing, seeing, and hearing the Emperor via some sort of psychic perception filter, seeing him to match how Land wants to see him. Later on, the Custodes interpret his presence differently (the golden god-like flowing haired man, radiant and pure - and when speaking with one of the Custodes, the Emperor goes back to referring to Horus by name as they hear it, while Land heard it as the Twelfth). One of the Space Marines sees him as just a vast, radiant light that he cannot bear to look upon when he walks through the Throneroom.

Meanwhile the Sisters of Silence, immune to the psychic corona, explicitly say that they see him as he is: a man.

Nope. That was old fluff. Master of Mankind actually has enough detail about the Emperor's childhood that history majors were not only were dates able to be approximated (3300-1200 BC), but figure out the Emperor's exact hometown (Gordium /modern Polatli in Phrygia, Turkey).

The Emperor spent the DAoT working behind the scenes and observing from the shadows. He was a Perpetual even then, and had most of his godlike powers since way back, as he was able to beat down the Void Dragon long before he went to Molech. After Molech he was "different" but one theory is that rather than diminish himself by placing all his power into the Primarchs, he used Molech as a means of stealing and fighting to acquire and harvest the knowledge and Warp-power needed to create them without having to deplete himself down to a regular mortal in the process.

Which means the DA are bad guys. QED.

user, have you never felt emotional attachment to a dog? A lot of the rest of us do. Hell, a lot of the rest of us feel an emotional attachment to our fucking miniatures, inanimate pieces of plastic. I may even go so far as to say that a lot of us feel some kind of emotional attachment to anything we put a lot of time and effort into. And seeing as Emps travelled to goddamn Molech in a tiny ass ship to commune with the 4 Satans and risk his soul just to get the project up and running, I'd say that qualifies as a LOT of time and effort. There is zero reason for Emps not to feel incredibly attached, even loving, towards the Primarchs. After all, they are living thinking beings produced by him, almost like his progeny if you will. Stop being autistic user, it's not a good path to success.

The nail were simple never made to be remove in the first place.

The Emperor is weird because he's a God-like entity but not really a God. He's a creation of necessity, and so that's how he thinks. His focus and his purpose is the survival and advancement of the human species by any means. While he does care about humanity as a whole, and he does care about humanity greatly, the individual is just a means of finding the right pieces to effect the means he desires. The Thunder Warriors conquered Earth, the Astartes were his fist, Saints are his intervention, etc. But they are all means to a goal. Humanity's ascendance. But remember, the Emperor is not a God.

Humanity's actual God born from the human gestalt (the Star Child) is still growing. Humanity just hasn't quite reached that point yet, and that's why the Emperor wanted to push humanity further.

it doesn't help that Chaos (and now the Emperor too) has been leaching off humans for millennia. How that will effect the Child's "birth" will be interesting.

At least, that's my head canon.

Stop calling everyone that has a different opinion "autistic". That's not even an argument. So, here is my OPINION:

You need to stop seeing the Emperor as what you want him to be and start seeing him as what he IS. The Imperium is not a love letter to mankind. It's the biggest middle finger to the whole universe. The Emperor didn't do it for you, for his "sons" or anyone but himself. In this the traitors are right: he wants to be a deity, but not a regular god, oh no. He wants to be the creature that defied the gods of chaos and all the rules in the 40k universe and won. He sees himself as the Unstoppable Force, and see in Chaos the Immovable Object. Big E sees himself as the greatest being alive and that's why he says that mankind is already perfect, that's why even with all his power he doens't change his form to have, for example, four arms and two brains or something like that. He does that because he wants to say "I was perfect from day one, I never needed nothing but myself. Makind is perfect and so am I"

Do I like his view? No. I know what you meant about emotional attachment, but I was not talking about how I see dogs or treat them. I was trying to explain how, in my opinion, the Emperor sees and treats live beings: as things, pawns in his game. That's how he behaves in MoM. That's how he treats Gulliman in Dark Imperium. You wanted him to be Space Jesus? It's a grimdark universe. He's not the good guy. He does what he does "Because I am the Emperor, and I am right". Anything else he says is just manipulation.

>So what was Big E up to, if anything, during the DAoT, when mankind had the best chance of utterly dominating the galaxy?

I assume he saw that age as a sign that he shouldnt interfere as Humanity was taking over the galaxy on its own, I mean the Emperor is someone that does let his hubris get the best of him and this seems like one of his many mistakes, perhaps the warp storm took him by surprise, perhaps he simply didnt care and saw the end of an era and prepared for the next step, the Imperium.

Whatever the case even if the Emperor had taken command of Mankind then not even him would be able to stop the galaxy spanning warp storm that would eventually throw all his efforts into the trash, its possible he saw this and bid his time to create whatever tools he needed to build the Imperium.

Iron Men would use giant serpent like constructs that travelled the void and one shotted stars. They consumed raw data, they could fucking eat the raw data of physical space, which would also include anything that had existed in that space.
Humans won against these levels of fuckery USING DAoT tech. It wasn't near Dark Eldar level, It was waaaaay fucking past It. Ammo that partially travelled back through time for higher than physically possible levels of accuracy, actual teleportation that didn't use the warp, guns that could fucking snipe an enemy ship that was still mid warp jump, the ability to forge metals that were immune to gravity (innately, no power source needed). There's a reason humanity Is so fucking widesprwad and the Imperium still discovers world of humans they completely fucking forgot existed. Canonically, before the fucking psyker gene became so widespread and the Eldar hedonism'd a God into existence, humanity was pretty much better than It will ever be able to be again.

Sauce? This is really interesting

Perpetual, It's about Ollanius' journey to terrace through random points In time and space, using only a shard of the Anathame to travel there, and as the portals are almost completely random, he only really knows where to go after exiting each portal, and when to open a new one based on trial and error. He has a small band of straight up mortal humans that fled into the first portal with him. At one point he exits the portal to find himself In the middle of a DAoT warzone,

At the very least, Emps should have fucking glassed Nuceria for what they did to Angron. That he didn't makes me REEE to this day.

Then his plan wouldn't have happened.

>DESU I'm getting more and more convinced that the Emperor isn't as old as we think he is.
Nah, he is. He's a pretty damn old perpetual. The question is what the nature of whatever it was that went down on Molech and made him the Anathema was.
>travelling to Molech to make a deal with the Chaos Gods
This is information from a very suspect narrator. We frankly don't really know what happened. And whatever Horus did at Molech fucked him up bad, aged him and shit.
>timeline-wise that could only have been a few thousand years before the Great Crusade at most, since Big E mainly did that to gain knowledge of how to make the Primarchs.
Now this is just wrong. Molech was early-DAoT - they had to use a one-way, primitive ship to get there.
>So what was Big E up to, if anything, during the DAoT, when mankind had the best chance of utterly dominating the galaxy?
Probably actively acting behind the scenes, along with multiple other individuals. Shit, Malcador was a member of the Illuminati. Psykers were around, but not in mass numbers and weren't known to the general public.
>but it doesn't imply he's always had the powers or ambition we see him with in 30k.
He's been alive since 3000BC and became the Anathema sometimes around M15AD. He's had the powers for a while, but his plans and ambitions have changed a lot. He didn't ever really want to take the reigns directly, but the Age of Strife was a real shitshow.

Calm down, Horus.

tfw you never wanted to be a bad guy, you just wanted to enact the Emperor's will while reading in your spare time

The only things arguably more powerful that DAoT humanity were the Ancient Eldar Empire and a fully functional Necron Empire. The Orks were seen as a fungal breakout.

Humanity had a very disturbing grasp of tech back then that is above what Craftworld or Dark Eldar are capable now (See: the Speranza). Unsurprising, considering the Void Dragon was used in some way to fuel our technological growth.

The audio book Perpetual pretty much states that the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy combined were like kiddy fights in comparison to the Men of Iron's Machine Revolt, in terms of bloodshed and the monstrosity of the weapons used.

Humanity was also comparatively young. Had the Eldar not fucked Slaanesh into existence, and had the Men of Iron not revolted, DAoT humanity would of probably surpassed the Necrons and Eldar Empire given time. Instead, they got the Age of Strife.

That plan seems to have a lot of holes.
But that might just be because my mortla mind can't understand the greatness that is the emperor.

What if people actually cared about Perturabo?

To add to this any time I see stuff about Dorn or Guilliman online everyone is always sucking their dicks and saying how great they are with architecture or logistics or even statesmanship and I can't help but feel bitter for a fictional character that I can really relate to. Then you get to the "LOL PERTURABO SUCKS HE IS AN ANGRY AUTIST LOL KILLED HIS LEGION LOL"

>yfw you realize Rogal "Hit me Daddy!' Dorn is better than Potatotardo

It's mainly that Goldberg is a hack.

What if your daddy didn't riddle you? It doesn't matter these things happen and you can choose to accept that and use it as a chance to become stronger or you can let it consume.
Pick one.

His adopted sister actually did care about him, and got strangled for it. I'm a fan of the IVth, but Perturabo is weak.

Nice! didn`t know abou that.

Magnus was screwed from the start. The main problem, the Flesh-Change, was never going away. Even if he'd done everything right, even if he'd never tried to reach the Emperor with sorcery, Tzeetch still basically held the soul of his Legion hostage.

There's pretty much no way Magnus could NOT end up on the side of Chaos. If he refused to do anything else, Chaos would just trigger the flesh-change on all the Thousand Sons.

...

>Polatlı (formerly Ancient Greek: Γορδιον, Gòrdion and Latin: Gordium) is a city and a district in Ankara Province in the Central Anatolia region of Turkey, 80 km west of the Turkish capital Ankara, on the road to Eskişehir. According to 2010 census, population of the district is 117,473 of which 98,605 live in the city of Polatlı.[3][4] The district covers an area of 3,789 km2, and the average elevation is 850 m.
>The ancient Phrygian capital Gordion is 10 km from the city of Polatlı. On his expedition to the east, Alexander the Great cut the famous Gordian Knot, an omen of his coming rule over the whole Asia. Pessinus, an ancient city on the upper river Sangarios (modern day Sakarya River), is also within the borders of Polatlı. The mythological Phrygian King Midas is said to have ruled from Pessinus and to be buried here.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polatlı

I understand that feel, user. That said, you can probably blame the latter on GW/BL's total ineptitude at creating a consistent character for Pert. I say just give anything about him to Graham, since he nailed the guy in Angel Exterminatus.

Magnus showed his true based nature when he chose not to alert his legion to the coming of the Wolves. Poor Magnus had to condemn his already small Legion to mass casualty in order to give on last middle finger to Chaos and Horus's plans.

Truly he did not deserve what he got.

The dog always gives me away. I need to get some tips from Alpharius.

He is not.

She got strangled because she was being verbally abusive towards him at the completely wrong time. She should have waited, knowing Perturabo's temper, to tell him he was a manchild. She kept going on and on about how he was shit. He was accepting some of it before he got angry about it. She didn't stop.

Everyone has their breaking point. Especially Calliphone's neck.

Hammer of Olympia was pretty good too.

>What if the Emperor didn't nuke Monarchia?
Monarchia was an original addition to the HH series, presumably to give some sort of justification to the word bearers for giving their souls to absolute evil and killing uncountable numbers of people. Possibly also because ADB has a bias against the emperor.

If it never happened, they would have fallen to chaos regardless. Kor Phaeron and Erebus were chaos cultists, and previously succeeded in turning Lorgar/all of the word bearers to Chaos without a traumatic event like that. Because lorgar was a fucking dummy.

Your opinion is ass because it isn't supported by any lore.

>She got strangled because she was being verbally abusive towards him at the completely wrong time. She should have waited, knowing Perturabo's temper, to tell him he was a manchild.

This is some hilarious mental gymnanstic apologizing here. Maybe she should have waited, or maybe Perturabo shouldn't be an unstable psychotic manchild who routinely kills the people who care about him (his sister, his legion).

Just like most of the traitor Primarchs, Perry's situation was basically entirely of his own making.

You should have some sympathy for your mentally ill fellows. That reply was colossally retarded after all.

It's the imperium of MANKIND though. Horus Heresy was a deliberate endgame that chaos hijacked. He was gonna have the space marines massacre the shit out of each other and have him clean up the remains, thunder warriors style.

Please stop spouting your fanfic.

I don’t like Dorn or Rowboat.

Samguinius is best Primarch. Birb boy was great, even the Necrons were on his dick.

Vulkan was a bro too.

>was

The whole point of the Astartes, when compared to the Thunder Warriors, was that they were meant for more than just bloody conquest. They were meant to be the defenders of humanity - which would be needed for a very, very long time. There was no culling to be had there.

Damn, right sorry.

VULKAN LIVES.

He’s just a little depressed now.

>some sort of justification to the word bearers

>Hey Lorgar, we're gonna do awesome things.
>Okay, cool dad! I will teach everybody to praise you as a god!
>Yeeeeahhh, don't do that. I'm not a god. I want you to spread the Imperial Truth and conquer worlds.

>Hey, I know! I'll make people believe dad's a god! I'm sure he didn't mean what he told me explicitly, right Horus?
>Yeah bro, you probably shouldn't do that.
>Fuck you, you don't understand me! I'll make it, what could possibly go wrong?

>Dad! Look at all the people I made believe you're a god!
>Fucking hell, I told you I'm not a god. Fix this shit or I'll fix it for you.

>I know! I'm going to create an even bigger image of dad as a god! Magnus, this'll make him happy, right?
>Dude, stop.
>Fuck you, you don't understand me! I'll make it, what could possibly go wrong?

>Dad, look! Look at this amazing world I built for you even BIGGER than last time, all worshipping you as a god! Isn't it awesome? Surely you believe me now!

Lorgar deserved Monarchia.

There's a difference between dad scolding you and dad literally burning your house down that you and your family built from the ground up.

This can be taken as a lesson, but it was executed as if it was spite.

Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying it was unnecessary, narratively. All it does is go "look how evil the emperor/the loyalists are for killing the kind and noble people of muhnarchia"

but I guess a book about an angsty teenager locking himself in a room and shutting himself away from the world because his dad just doesn't understand him would be a little too on the nose for the people reading the books.

Problem is, Lorgar had been told, time and again, to stop what he was doing. The Emperor told him, his fellow Primarchs told him. He still kept on ignoring them and ignoring them, and just would not stop. Then he made Monarchia, which was practically giving the Emperor a massive middle finger. So the Emperor came to Monarchia personally, with Malcador in tow, and told him to stop yet again. And Lorgar still utterly refused to listen.

At that point, it honestly isn't so much evil as Lorgar being a stubborn little shit holding his hands over his ears and screaming like a toddler. He had every possible chance, was given every opportunity to be reminded of what he's supposed to be doing and that he needs to get back to it. Monarchia was harsh, but it was a necessary object lesson to somebody who was blindingly stubborn in his complete rejection of what literally everybody had been telling him. He was, in short, an immature little bitch, and the Emperor frankly gave him far more chances than he deserved. In fact, I'd argue that the Emperor comes out of it looking a lot better than Lorgar does, considering that Lorgar throws a tantrum at Malcador, proceeds to hide in his room for weeks, throws more tantrums, and then flips his allegiance to Chaos when his abusive stepfather, who literally used to beat him as a child, tells him to.

Using Guilliman to do the levelling might have been a bit spiteful, I will admit. Horus, Magnus, or Sanguinius would have been better choices there to try and smooth things over. Or just terminating Lorgar and the Word Bearers right then and there, but the Emperor, if anything, was guilty of being too forgiving of Lorgar. Which is a really weird thing to say about the Emperor.

>Midas
So THAT'S why Big E loves gold!

Horrible during molting though

You see, this would make sense if the primarchs weren't genetically engineered with specific roles in mind. Lorgar was supposed to be the Uber chaplain, or, at the very least, the diplomat. Instead of guiding Lorgar towards his purpose, Emps was like, "stop it Lorgar, religion is dumb" and leaves it at that. He never provides a valid reason to the guy who was pretty much made specifically to reason.

>The Fallen and Luther are totally a thing
No they're fucking not

>this would make sense if the primarchs weren't genetically engineered with specific roles in mind
All of the primarchs were genetically engineered with the specific role of "Conquering General"

>When the Emperor took note of Lorgar's slow advance across the stars, he personally reproached his Primarch. He informed Lorgar that his purpose was not for faith, but for battle. The true mission of the Space Marines was to re-conquer and unify the galaxy under the banner of Imperium, not to waste precious time and resources in vast displays of fealty and piety.

why he hed to smol for he bodi

>All of the primarchs were genetically engineered with the specific role of "Conquering General"
They all embodied different traits and behaviors though.

Remember, we don't really know exactly what went into the Primarch Project yet. We don't know how much of their differing views and roles had to do with nature versus nurture. Both almost certainly had varying levels of effect.

The intended purpose of the Astartes and just how the Primarchs were created, and how it affected them, are two very different things.

>All of the primarchs were genetically engineered with the specific role of "Conquering General"
Yeah, but one was a Perpetual, the rest weren't. One was an OP Psyker, the rest weren't. One was a penultimate, the rest weren't...

The Primarchs almost certainly embodied different aspects of the Emperor and his abilities, if not humanity itself.

>Glassing one of the five hundred worlds of Ultramar

Yeah but when you're supposed to be proselytizing the imperial truth to starve chaos to limit its reach in the mortal realm while rapidly trying to reunify the galaxy. Not slowly converting a small segment of the galaxy to worshiping a "mortal man" as a god.

Lorgar never would have accomplished anything and ruined the Imperium by causing religious schisms.

As much as I hate it you are correct. It kills me to admit that yes, lorgar was weak, stubborn and petulant. He always had the best of intentions but intent means little in the grand scheme of things.

That said Vulcan should have been used to burn the planet. Guiliman was literally the Worst Decision- russ, ANGRON m-morty. Even fucking Curze would have been better then Mr perfect

Lorgar was objectively right about everything and the only Primarch who came out of the Heresy better off.

No matter what happens at this point Lorgar has won. Either the Chaos Gods win and he remains the closest thing Chaos has to a Pope. Or the Big E is forced to turn into a God of Order against his will.

Religion is what drives humanity and one way or another it will be what saves it. The Emperor was wrong and Lorgar was right and no matter what happens that will always be the case.

Feels good to have done nothing wrong

Unlike 40k?

>we don't really know exactly what went into the Primarch Project yet
We do know it wasn't completed before chaos fucked it up, and we do know the traits and behaviors of the primarchs are largely influenced by the home planets/foster parents they were raised by.

People just take it as rote that the emperor deliberately designed all the primarchs for very specific functions (down to their exact personalities), but there's not much evidence for it.

Just popping in to mention I hate the entire idea of Perpetuals.

I also heavily dislike the entire Cabal plot line.

In fact, while I genuinely enjoyed the glimpses we saw of the Legions, the Primarchs, and the Early Imperium, I still think the HH novels were a mistake. They weakened the mythological nature of the setting by revealing too much- and worse, by doung much of it badly.

Yup, perpetuals a shit, same with the Cabal but it at least had potential. Should have focused more on the Primarch's themselves and their personalities and letting it grow from there, instead we got woogy space magic and muh secret organisation dedicated to saving the universe. I'm not joking when I say that I enjoy the Warhammer High stories way more than some HH books

There’s not a lot to be said for it though. It’s pretty hard to get more definitive about not wanting to be seen as a god than the person in question flat out saying no, they are not a god. Which is exactly what the Emperor did, point blank. Yes we know he was probably just in denial and rejecting the truth about it, but he was explicit to Lorgar that he did not want at all to be worshipped. And Lorgar ignored him.

malcador seemed sure that he could fix Angrons nails in the brain problem.
He even called Angron to Terra in order to have a crack at it, but Angron basically cussed Malcador out and said "I don't take orders from you, fuck off"

I like Guilliman well enough but I still feel bitter for Perturabo.

>no one ever really listened to him
>he was completely used and never really appreciated
>got stuck with shit work no one else wanted to do that killed ground his sons to dust (literally against the hrud)
>was already mentally unstable which being able to see the EoT at all times (and no one knowing what he's even talking about and Ferrus being like "lol stop being such a pussy dude" didn't help)
>got along with Magnus who shared his love for knowledge
>the one thing they ever gave him a chance to build was supposed to be amazing but instead was used to condemn his only real friend of his brothers
>Dorn was lauded as great whilst Perturabo was better yet got nothing not even recognition

There are a million different other things. It's understandable why Perturabo turned out the way he did, and made the choices he did. They were logical.

All he wanted was peace. He didn't want to rule. He only wanted to help.

Meh... Decimating his Legion the moment he took command of it wasn't exactly a smart move. They needed a reminder they were supposed to deliver, but if you make people feel like replaceable cogworks in a machine, it doesn't end well.

The (unofficial) corpse grinders had loss after loss after loss. He decimated them to make them better, and it worked. Are there other things he could have done? Maybe. Would it have been effective? Maybe.

I kno rite?

If the guy who who drowned a necrodermis warmachine in magma like a sack of puppies tells you you're being a pussy, most people with sense would listen.