Android: Netrunner General - /anrg/

Kiting would be somewhat decent for a Nexus/Power Tap/Citadel deck I guess? Assuming the later 2 are already mostly out at least. Crims can use it on Femme or other imported breakers if nothing else.

That would depend on whether preventing the trash still satisfies the condition for WUC, which probably doesn't.

Do we have any "prevent 1 tag" cards that doesn't trash itself? Would make good synergy with Kiting.

Don't recall any such tag prevention card off-hand, but Citadel should be enough to deal with the tag assuming prior setup.

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>Wall

As pumped as I am for the Virus suite, Freedom doesn't do it for me. I'd still rather go Kim or Reina. Maybe the "Viruses as a second currency" will get a couple cards we haven't seen and hit critical mass, but so far it feela like you get just enough for breakers and don't have much to spare.

If Ice Wall is any indication, it could be big enough to look like a wall to an outsider.

Oh hey, Qianju PT is reusable. Not sure if it's worth it, but it's there. Alternatively you could negate the cost with Crash Space, which doubles as a damage buffer.

>Qianju PT
If avoiding wasn't "preventing" you could probably make a case for it against CTM

>Down the White Nile is out

In some parts of the world.
No jealousy.

>Oh hey, Qianju PT is reusable

And non-unique too.

Other ‘walls’ look just as unusual. All it matters is that they make the runners bounce off the servers.

Data could be inside, by which point we have a 3D, spherical wall.

Anyone experimented with Oberth our of Jemison? And if so what did you cook?
Interested in trying something, looking for inspiration.

It's probably good there just to null the tag from that one agenda I think.

Bump

Saves you 2c, which isn't too bad for a click, and also decent for avoiding kitty I think

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Freedom could potentially be more capable of trashing all those operations compared to Kim. Pretty sure 0-cost ones probably won't need any actual counters around, and it doesn't have to be the first one accessed either.

>pic somewhat unrelated.

I agree, Khumalo can probably play just fine as a pseudo-Whizzard, he doesn't actually need a virus oriented setup. Incubator + Virus Breeding Grounds is all he needs in addition to the usual Whizzard builds.

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Was Zed a failed brain surgeon?

'Failed' you say? Or working just as intended?

Wonder if there are bioroids working the medical sector, or would Jinteki be holding the monopoly there?

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A MIND MADE OF MEAT!?!?!

... does not seem like something a brain surgeon would say. But what do I know?

Zed is a series of protocols made to see how a bioroid rediscovers brain-related science experimentally. Allows to gauge bother the heuristics and potential development of stress and ethics issues for our bioroid clusters, while also serving as a defense mechanism against criminal presence on company networks.
1.0 was still in early learning process. Mind of a child with the processing capacities of a super computer.
2.0 is nearing professional competency, but still mostly a vivisectionist, with observed development of callousness by redefinition of base conceptual tools as a coping mechanism from the realization of what is being done. Weird bouts of sadism too.
The test is going to see whether 3.0 is going to fall back within range of starting control parameters and into self-imposed ethical behavior, or fall further into dissociative compartmentalization and ruthlessness. Allocation of resources toward a definitive version shall be withheld until 3.0 results are in.
Still can't say whether the Seidr guys value the first or second possibility most though. Will need to prod.

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If mere clones with (probable) imperfections can do it, superior Bioroids with exact copies of the minds of the best medical personnel can easily surpass them.

Val respawning into Freedom would be an interesting combo, although that setup might give advance warning to the corp / cause them to wonder wtf is happening.

That'd be funny to see a corp watching a Val install Virus Breeding Ground or Incubator for the first time, thinking it'd be a cool virus deck, then groan when she Rebirths into Khumalo. I want to say the 50 card deck size will be a detriment, but since I have a 50 card deck in 45 card ID in the backburner myself, I sure hope not.

It’s probably just going to end up as basically a Freedom deck with 14inf and 3 mining accidents + rebirth + whatever extra card.

Those 3 Mining Accidents could be a game changer come to think of it.

I dont think wake up call needed the remove from game clause

With Vitrivius evergreen, I'm personally glad it is, whether it "needed" or not.

It’s a pretty good addition to any generic red deck all things considered. And unless Freedom’s breakers uses virus tokens almost exclusively, even specialised decks like his can do with more bad pub.

Might be a tad oppressive with all the corp recursion options without the RFG honestly. I can already see Wake Up Call, Archived Memories, Wake Up Call being pretty destructive.

Wonder how many would actually go all in on a virus deck instead of just good stuff Anarch cards + Virus Breeding Ground and Incubator, maybe some Suckers too either to help with trashing or make breaking cheaper.

And speaking of Suckers, since we got a Siphon replacement, think we'll get a Parasite one too? Medium's was already announced I think?

>speaking of Suckers, since we got a Siphon replacement, think we'll get a Parasite one too?

Hippo?
Or is the clocked strength reduction more what you had in mind?

>Medium's was already announced I think?

netrunnerdb.com/en/card/21041

Oh yeah, Hippo might be part of the breakdown of Parasite, just realized. Maybe they will put the clocked strength reduction on a different card? Also, I missed the RFG condition on Hippo for trashing ICE, which makes it several times better (for the game) than I originally thought.

I kinda like the outermost requirement. Leaves the corp with some leeway, keeping an unrezzed piece of ICE on a sever to make it Hippo-free, so to speak.

This game is a total waste of money.

So long as it exists predominately in the, 'how good is your head abacus' space rather than the 'can you bluff or read a player well' space it'll continue being shit.

That said the game is going in a better and better direction.

Just play jinteki mushin no shin decks lmao

Part of the problem being with the balance of high impact cards/effects on the one hand, and things like SMC butchering face-checking risks on the other.
The first one is very difficult to get right, as people hate to lose because of one, single mistake. For good reasons too. Feels arbitrary even when it is not that much. Leaves very little margins for comebacks, which is something you want players to be able to do too to generate suspenseful games.

Trouble is of course the asymmetry of information and the potential for bluff *is* one of the components that *make* the game. As such, the lack of value of expose is disheartening. And the fact that only secondary effects tied to expose seem to have the potential to make it worthwhile to so many players alarming.
Far from a new problem though.

That being said, some people do love the "abacus" side of the game, and not butchering it is also something that has to be accounted for. Balancing this game is not an easy task. Respect where dues, whatever people might think.

To be fair, few L/TCGs if at all are more rewarding than what Netrunner can offer in the "head abacus" style of games. Since knowledge is absolutely everything, the sense of satisfaction when you can perfectly guess what deck your opponent is playing and adjust your play accordingly is the absolute best. Not even L5R with it's much MUCH tighter econ game and picture perfect timing of the exact moment you know you've won/lost can beat Netrunner at the suspense of installing or accessing that last agenda.

Actually, in retrospect that's probably what Netrunner does best: giving its players time to adapt during a game.

All-in virus decks would probably need multiple festers to discourage purging. Might as well go with Tpewrm and SacCons at the same time for econ/synergy.

Hippo is also hardware rather then a program, so its probably going to stick around for a bit until you can trigger it.

That works in favour of making it less bullshit - hardware tutors are very, very weak, after all

While such tutors aren't common, the Reds have plenty of draw to get to them fairly quickly. Inject for one doesn't trash them unlike the original program previously...

I guess - I mean I do absolutely love that there's 3 fairly unique ways of getting the cards you want:
Shapers just get what they want, or at least fast, regular draw.
Anarchs use mass draw, and filter what they want out as they chew through the deck and have programs-from-archives abilities.
And last Criminals filter their draw - it lets you keep your cards, but it's a bit slow

This variety is really cool and good for faction-definition imo

Filtering sounds good, until both options happen to be ones you seriously need at that point of time. And unlike the Reds, you can't even discard them to be easily retrieved/SoT'ed later.

So yeah, the Blues got it the worst in the draw department.

Yeah, this is something I like about the game as well. The curve is extremely steep between middle and expert level play, but when you do manage to make a big leap like this and outwit your opponent it feels great.

I would also like to see more of a bluffing / reading element personally, but as a few others mentioned that can feel very swingy. I think the reason is somewhat analagous, like in poker games when you've learned the rules but haven't yet grasped that deeper level, and still attribute your loss to "bad luck" when in actuality you just got outplayed.

Blockade Runner is pretty decent filter I think, since it isn't a "filter what you draw", it's a "filter your hand" card, the marked difference between it and Anarch style discarding down to hand size being that you get to keep everything. Hopefully more variations of this pop up, though I'm not sure how since Blockade Runner is pretty straightforward. Jinteki style "shuffle two, draw three" maybe?

fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/2/7/kampala-ascendent/
The packs been spoiled but new article

What's a fun Corp deck that I should bring to my local SC? I'm blanking on ideas at the moment.

Bioroid archetype deck

HB Mushin deck! Now available in ASA.

So Mti really is a full-server bypass. That's both relieving and worrying - it means that the designers don't actually understand the run structure. "Approaching the server" is the first step before encountering any ICE.

I'm an idiot. The LAST step after encountering all ICE.

Better to wait on that one, FFG news writers aren't exactly reliable. Maybe an errata will be released for it like BoN.

Being , I'm in a somewhat similar situation, looking at cards I haven't played much and trying to make interesting decks out of them.

Looking back on Meteor Mining right now, and while I love having a kill option sit on an agenda (meaning more room for other stuff) it being a 5/2 makes it SO hard to work out a double whammy tagging/scoring window, in practice. Out of Jemison I just don't know what to do with it.

Any particular type of decks you have more an affinity toward?

Yeah, as always, wait for the final word of god.
And look out for its mutations.

A deck like this is a blast. Throw in Jinja and watch the runner's heart sink when you build a remote six ice deep.

Even better in AoT, where getting said Bioroids rezzed at a discount is awesome despite the -3 inf.

Any indication for the next season’s GNK stuff? Wouldn’t mind something a bit more useful compared to AA FIS.

Funny how the stimhack guys aren't big on Distract the Masses, being a mini-Jackson with much less risk than Preemptive and less expensive than Whampoa.

Could be a sleeper hit for all we know. Or perhaps its too important to blare out to the competition.

>Reading stimhack
2/10

Oh man, I sure love getting my Netrunner fix from a thread that only posts every 2 - 4 hours!

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If that, even!

Yeah, giving the runner 2c is pretty trivial a cost to shuffle 2 cards - the trashing is entirely, optional, after all

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Meteor is pretty rad, but it's really kind of impractical - ironically you'd probably have to use FA tricks or pretending it's a trap

Though the new tech in Kitara does look like it's giving Weyland the 2-tag tools Meteor needs

>you'd probably have to use FA tricks

Yeah, outside of Jemison (and even then I'd go as far as say, only certain builds, False Leads really helps a lot) I just don't know what to make of it for now.
I'm liking some of the options offered by Kitara even beyond tags, something like Urban Renewal opens possibilities.

Really wish I had more to contribute to the thread in general, but I4m really not in a right spot to offer more than passing comments on 2.0 meta if I have to be honest.

Kitara seems a very solid cycle for Weyland so far.

Hmm, does Overseer Matrix here give tags after being trashed? - the "during" suggests it might, which could get nasty

That's how I understand it. Part of the point I would say. There's a mass upgrade deck coming to Weyland for nasty results. Writing's on the wall.

Oh yeah, it is optional, you probably shouldn't since that seems like a waste, but if your RnD is depleted and you need a card in Archives you could use this for a heart of the cards draw.

The wording used is the same as other "applies even when trashed" cards, so yes.

The ideal Weyland Kitara server seems to go: Overseer Matrix, Forced Connection, Prisec, and City Works Project/Government Fakeover. At that point, you probably don't even need NBN tools to try to murder the runner, just run HPT and some Consulting visits.

For ice, Mausolos and what else?

Colossus? Veritas? Nightdancer? (possible partial answer to that Meteor Mining puzzle now that I think of it)... I'd play Weir in that I think.

Don't forget K.P. Lynn. Though I'd still want some Data Ravens and maybe a single HHN, since they will trash those upgrades early if they could, and they will try their best to end the turn without tags an hopefully leave themselves poor. Urban Renewal will force some remote runs too, as does NGO Front. Ice should be taxing ones, mostly for centrals since Ravens go on the remote.

Blockade Runner is going to be that one card that annoys me whenever it gets mentioned because people think it's slow, no matter that they're playing a deck that spends 2 clicks every other turn to draw a card.

You guys have any cards like that?

I know a guy who insists Oracle May is slow for draw because it doesn't stack.

I mean, if you May then draw that's just like having Pro-Co out. I just don't get his perspective, drawing 3+ times per turn is so rare outside of Notrunner decks that you can just exclude it. I guess there's Obakata recovery and ?

May is like a ProCo for several clicks more even, due to being cheaper to install. Might be that he's comparing her to pure draw cards like Earthrise and Laguna, which really isn't how you're supposed to. Or like that one 2 credit and 1 card event.

But aren’t most reg crim decks (which are presumably the only ones that would even consider BR) more likely to jam in other sources of draw first? The Hotel and Deuces Wild, not to forget Fisk Investment Seminar(!) can easily reduce the standard click-draw usage to less the 1/turn over the whole match.

Combo decks are probably the ones that need BR the most, especially the ones that don't care to run until they have enough pieces. Reg Crims want to run atleast once per turn, so it's understandable why Blockade Runner could be too slow there. That said, if you already have Fisk and Earthrise and you're still drawing twice a turn often, then Blockade Runner isn't a terrible investment at 1 credit and no influence. If you can consistently not need to spend two clicks to draw for 3 or 4 turns straight, then you probably don't need the water boy.

Of note though is Reg Crims could probably benefit a lot from RNG Key for draw. Maybe with the click reveal all cards in HQ card if that's still around.

>Maybe with the click reveal all cards in HQ card if that's still around.

Both Executive Wiretaps and Expert Schedule Analyzer have rotated if that's what you had in mind.

Yeah it was, not that it was a good idea anyway since it makes you do a "instead of accessing" run.

Yeah, information is nice, and it works for criminals thematically for sure (anarchs don't care what they destroy, and shapers like to discover and explore, but for the pursuit of cold cash perfect information makes sense), but mechanically it didn't really work out - reveal and expose were binder fodder for ages. Maybe if there was a way of using information better - "name a card", forcing HQ accesses to be non-random or something (though IDK how to enforce that).

The rise of expose (though value expose will likely always be a pipe dream) goes some way to remedy that, but turtle craps all over the much more interesting Mammon, despite it's reliance on expose being much more direct. I'm pretty sad the turtle overtook Mammon so soundly, it's a much more interesting breaker.
I almost hope turtle is strong enough to restrict - it's very strong, not Faust level, but approaching that kind of universality.

Had another lively discussion on the subject of expose/reveal the other night.
Friend of mine thinks one issue with both is that they get invalidated by player skill. The better you are at the game, the less likely you are to need them.
I go the other around way myself, the problem is that the game in its current state rarely, if ever, makes. you think like you *need* to expose that card. To reveal that HQ.
I tends to think HQ reveal were over-costed too in the beginning. Being able to call the corp on its SEA/Scorched bluff was nice, but generally for less investment you could just Plascrete and be done with it. I somewhat like what they've done with reveal on that front, with less costly (I mean Bug vs Corporate Defector), bite-size chunks you get on top of doing something else. Trouble is becomes the opportunity cost in slotting them. 46th card syndrome.

Turtle's problem is again, the influence cost. It feels strong because its everywhere, and while the GPI Zamba combo has probably pushed it over the edge, if it was basically a Crim exclusive then it wouldn't really be too much of a problem. Even if it did get restricted, Crims will probably still use it over Gang Sign unless they value Film Critic more, and Anarchs have no real problems picking a restricted card. I do agree that Mammon is more interesting (though probably a tad less with the Lovegood combo), but in the end efficiency wins I guess.

>Maybe if there was a way of using information better - "name a card"
"Click: Name a non-agenda card. The corp may not play or rez a card with that name until the start of the runner's next turn. You may only use this ability during a turn where you made a successful run on HQ, and only once per turn."

Probably give it Unique too.

>Lovegood combo
The what now?

For naming, I'd probably say that a reward (a la Targeted Marketing or something) is better than being restrictive - though I Interdiction is rad as anything

I guess using Lovegood on Mammon to float counters from one turn to the other?
Must be missing something here.