What SHOULD the magic users role be in the party?

What SHOULD the magic users role be in the party?

Depends on whatever role his class is assigned and secondary roles he decides to spec into.

Arcana type classes tend to gravitate towards control and blasting as their primary and secondary role. Outside of that, useful as encyclopedias of information on obscure lore and the ability to perform rituals.

Buffer, debuffer, and dispeller. It's a very powerful and important role.

Why waste your magic on direct damage? That's what your fucking beatsticks lackeys are for.

Crowd-damage, maybe some buffs and debuffs (although those are suited better for clerics and bards and such), magical knowledge and dealing with pother spellcasters.

The role of magic users should NOT be "I can handwave every problem in the campaign away with a single spell" like it is in the burning dumpster fire that is Dungeons and Dragons.

Depends on the setting.
In the Glorantha systems the mages role is everything, since everybody is a wizard.

But I guess you talk about DnD, basically what he is doing now but without invalidating the non-wizards.

Depends on setting.

Doing cool stuff that the other guys can't do. This means not doing anything they can do. Don't shoot people, stab people, withstand punishment, perform amazing athletic feats, unlock doors, etc. Create walls, calm raging rapids, know/divine things (this is a matter of taste), speak with animals, see through walls, quench flames, create portals, etc.

A lot of this stuff depends on your rogue. If you rogue wants to smooth talk people, don't jedi mind trick. If he wants to burgle, don't lock/knock or invisibility. If he wants to have connections in the city, don't divine everything.

I really like that screencap. I've been thinking about it a lot and wish I knew the person who wrote it so I could talk about their tastes more. I wonder if they really dislike all supernatural characters, or if its just the OP ones. Would a high fantasy setting without Wizards be interesting? Or wizards as a support class and simply removing all their OP, campaign ruining spells? It's been an inspiration either way.

Remove Wizards from DnD, you now have a much more balanced game where each caster has a defined role.

Raw Damage: Warlock

Crowd Damage: Sorcerer

Healing and Buffs: Cleric and Bard

Crowd Control: Druids

The classes have a little bit of overlap with eachother, but in general they don't completely invalidate eachother or the non-caster classes like Wizards do.

>everyone can deal damage, but only you as a caster can prevent magic from affecting you and your peers

I can see why someone would specialize in silence and counterspelling, it's a noble goal

I like magic that is ad hoc, just as what they are in old myths and fairy tale.
Like there is one and only one specific spell/potion for one and only one specific situation.
When there is a problem, the wizard needs to do research and/or recall "that spell", and the ingredients are hard to collect, or the rituals require a specific time and place.
You want to buff the fighter? Fetch me these obscured materials and I'll brew the potion.
But I don't think it would work well in games, or at least, compatible with other ordinary PCs.

In my current homebrew I'm making the magic user class just as Sage instead- capable of identifying and creating potions, using magic rods as weapons, identifying monsters and what of their body parts are useful for making gear, and is the best at casting magic spells but isn't the only one that can do it.

The term of "Wizard" is just a colloquial term for "guy really good at magic" that could be of any class or background. A swordsman could be a wizard, if he had unlocked many magical powers. That's how I want to handle it anyway.

Power support and spymasters, like in Black Company.

don't sell yourself short user, this is an excellent idea

User of magic.

One type of caster should be purely damage through magic without any utility spells (or what utility spells he has are things that primarily aid in damage). It's a video game example, but Sorcerers in Dragon's Dogma accomplish this. They take a lot of time to cast their spells, but when they do they can clear rooms and display phenomenal cosmic power. They still need their martial allies to defend them or they'll fail to cast. This gets around the primary issue of casters not being their potency in combat but their ability to either solve combat before it starts with magic or to completely avoid obstacles with magic.

The other type of caster uses more subtle magic. Maybe they can repair a damaged object with a spell. They'd generally be the sort to cast ritual spells. Things that solve problems but take a lot of time, and aren't MAJOR problems. They won't completely nullify the roles of other party members by being able to lift extremely heavy objects with their minds or sneak into areas by turning invisible. They could do things like repair broken items, cast light into the darkness, befuddle enemies, allow people to levitate slowly for a short time. They would have a broad range of spells that are kind of useful, but are usually about on par with how martials can use their skills. This mage couldn't use his spells to sneak better than the Rogue, for example, or become stronger than the Fighter. Ideally, most of his spells would work best on making others better.

You have the two types of casters, now. Sorcerers are flashy and powerful and can deal a lot of area damage, but they need time to cast their spells (and hopefully they don't absolutely overwhelm their martial allies in the damage department). Wizards are subtle, reserved magic that is incredibly handy and useful, but doesn't invalidate the skills of others.

>SHOULD
There is no imperative to make them any one thing in particular.
Be the master of your own imagination.

Utility and support- if the Wizard OOC is not a lorefag, then there's no point in having on in the party.

This- of course means they don't take an active role in matters until later in the game, which is an issue, so one find specialists to be more preferable due to prepared spells.

This is remedied in later editions via wizard class variants, and the like of Red Wizards of that with their additional specialization.

To be fair, if the wizard isn't an evoker, at low level it's always color spray, sleep, and utility more than anything, retreating to throw darts or use a crossbow, or wand if the fight is pretty desperate.

Above all else, the wizard needs to shine and be the most grounded character, place of leaning, facilities and and the like have to be fleshed out because the wizard has important purpose during downtime.

Slut

Using magic in his setting.

This is how magic in my setting works because I was going for that oldschool fantasy feel.
We also aren't playing DnD, because this plain does not work eith DnD.

>We also aren't playing DnD, because this plain does not work with DnD.

It can. one of the strengths of the system is the ease of how much you can homebrew and change it for the better. For example; straight up removing the spellcaster classes.

>What SHOULD the magic users role be in the party?

senex

So you mean removing 80% of the classes in the game.

>anti-magic class
I see you are a man of culture as well.

>one of the strengths of the system is the ease of how much you can homebrew and change it for the better.
DnD is one of the most homebrew unfriendly games, especially post TSR
Lots of games can do this significantly better and easier and without the baggage of DnD.

To copy an image from another thread, Homebrewers are insane and there's no reasoning with them.

Leader.

Depends on the caster.

For the "muh DnD" fags ITT: just play 4e. It solved your issue.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

>Inb4 everybody is a caster
Only if you lack reading comprehension

If you're playing a published system, you're playing a homebrew. Every game was just some neckbeards idea for an interesting game. Stop giving people with money and art more credit then novices.

If I wanted to play an MMO, I;d just get into World of Warcraft.

Stay mad, 4rrie.

Yeah, and every story was someone's idea for an interesting story, but I'm still going to treat published novels with more respect than some kid's Sonic the Hedgehog fanfiction on Deviantart.

>I'd rather play a game that doesn't do what I want and complain, than admit I fell for the memes

Nice Stockholm Syndrome there, buddy.

Buffer, Bard
debuffer, curselock/witch

and dispeller. Gee nice role you've got there, champ

divination, dealing with magic and magic creatures, telekinesis and stuff like that.

dealing direct damage should be something that it can do but not a lot of times and in general should require preparation but be very powerful.

magic users in D&D are completely retarded

>all the people ITT who think that wizards dealing direct damage are a problem

You are why D&D is shit.

Remove teleport, fly, invisibility, and the mind controlling spells. Polymorph is now a class feature of the druid and only the druid.

Congratulations, you've basically fixed the game.

In a travelling party
Communications-send a familiar up to scan the castle or check round the corner.
Two Wizards Scrying on each other for a duplex conversation
Heavy weapons- Your wizard can shoot fireballs, and call storms and quakes but isn't good if you need to keep something standing.

Depends on the type of magic user, since 'All magic' is way too broad a category to narrow down/is too broad a category really for a class to work well with.

Except 5e does do what I want. You're the one projecting and shitposting.

>DnD for kids.jpg
DnD is for kids though.

>being this angsty of being cucked by a wizard
>'pls dont make me irrelevant' *crys*

The average kid nowadays can barely read, let alone do math. At least if you live in the states and deal with their joke of an education system.

Not the guy you're replying to, but as a caster player myself, I want the other classes to be more competitive with wizard so that not everyone wants to always play the same classes I do. (Plus other casters get cucked by wizards too).

I sincerely hope for the sake of the roleplaying community that you're joking or "trolling". Playing a class that invalidates others in a team based game isn't clever, it's bad game design. You're like the kid who answers what super powers you'd take with "omnipotence xd".

The point of the exercise isn't "to win". That's just fucking retarded.

To provide a risky, one time miracle if needed and later share the tale of their master, Conan.

I literally AM playing my homebrew. Doesn't change the fact that DnD is fundamentally flawed and shitty to homebrew for, compared to many other games

Honestly, I think they should be able to fill any party role, but not every party role. Abjurors should be able to make wards & shields & defend the party. Evocators should be able to blast & wield a sword of flame & cloak of cinders & be just as competent as a fighter in melee. Diviners should be all about lore & utility & guidance.
I like the way WFRPG/Zweihander divide up magic so that you can only really choose one, & this decides what roll you take.

D&D's problem has never been the Wizard class, but the spells they make & they way they handle them

>What SHOULD the magic users role be in the party?
Villains

they should fill the role of Magic User.

The guide in to the underworld, the diviner of fortunes, the contact with gods and spirits, the leader of rites, the guy that drugs cerberus, maybe a fireball here and there.
Polymorphing men to pigs and snow clones of fair maidens feels more like an npc thing.

The mind. When you need to know esoteric lore, know what an artifact is, potion/magic item effects, history, etc.

Definitely not like D&D Wizards where they can do everything and they can do it better and more efficient than other classes that specialize in just one thing.

Big fan of the mind, muscle, face, sneak party dynamic

Cum dumpster

Holy shit, thank you. I don't know what is about "muh direct damage" that triggers people so much.

In my ideal fantasy game, I would kill the concept of Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Warlocks, etc. Vancian Style ritual casting(which spell slots represent) are something anyone can do with enough effort. I would replace the nixed classes with classes with an "inherent" supernatural power they specialize in, but can't really branch out of. Think like PF's Kineticist on paper, if it wasn't a dumpster fire.