The Good Ol' Days Edition
Discuss the lore and story of the Warcraft franchise and its application in and around traditional games.
>Document compendium: Contains official (ex-canon) DnD 3.x variants and a fan made DnD 5e version! Also contains the official Warcraft Chronicles volumes 1 and 2.
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The Horde really should have been wiped out in less than a year after the Third War. A bunch of backwater savages with no tech, all pushed to the edge of extinction. Really, they should have been exterminated. Daelin Proudmoore should have been allowed to literally make them extinct. Like, they should all been put to the fucking sword if you know what I mean. Fucking backwards savages have no right to exist in WoW. This RVB shit is the fucking worst. The Horde should have been burned down to the fucking ground a million times. They should have been destroyed without any hesitation, fucking greenskins. There is no logic behind their continued existence. In any realistic world, they should have been wiped out. Someone like Garithos should have come around and driven them to extinction. That's all such a primitive, backwards group of species with such poor numbers deserves. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this. Fucking savages. I don't play this game to worship a bunch of disgusting looking primitives. They should have been wiped out before BC. I'd literally love this game far more if it was Alliance-only. There's literally no reason for the fucking Horde to continue existing or to have ever existed. There are few things worse than the way that Blizzard has depicted them as flawless, wonderful good guys that can do no wrong. Orcs, tauren, trolls, they're all so primitive and simple that they have no right to exist in an Azeroth with humans and dwarves. Literally this game would be a hundred times better if it was nothing but a Horde genocide simulator. I'd love to roleplay a paladin putting the disgusting savages to the sword and burning them all with holy light. Nothing's worse than the way the Horde is depicted as being equal to the enlightened civilization of the Alliance. It's even in the names, the Horde is nothing but a mindless mob of primitive monsters while the Alliance is unified and intelligent.
What was Ragnaros supposed to do next if he won? What's his purpose in a world where nothing remains to burn?
They had muscle and steel which is enough to survive post-war, especially when already settled.
He'd burn everything down and that'd be it. Probably make way for the Old Gods or something. Maybe he wants everything to burn and would be satisfied with just that,
Old racist Zandalari ex-bar tender is best datamined character.
>Ya orcs can drink. I give ya dat. But tell yer stuck-up elf friends to stay outta here, eh?
>Filthy. Disgusting. Ya smell worse than a blood troll. If I still owned this bar, I'd sweep you out with the garbage.
>My people founded civilization at the dawn of time, and have carried the rest of you on our backs ever since.Tell me, (name), what have your people ever done worth remembering? I can't think of a single thing.
>Look, elf. I don't own this bar anymore, so I don't gotta pretend to like ya.Get outta my face, filthy elf.
>Always surprised me that ya Darkspears signed up with the Horde. Always were too weak to stand on your own, I guess. How's Vol'jin?
>"I respect some of the goblin cartels. Neutral and strong, willing to do whatever it takes. Like the Zandalari... but worse, of course. But ya Bilgewater are a disgrace. In bed with the elves and Horde. Go blow yourself up, sell out.
>Buy me a drink, (name). My people saved this world while ya people just run off hiding like cowards, hiding in your mist. You owe me a drink.
>>Buy me a drink, (name). My people saved this world while ya people just run off hiding like cowards, hiding in your mist. You owe me a drink.
Pandas BTFO.
>How's Vol'jin?
Too close to home, buddy.
Lemme guess, that third line's aimed at Tauren?
>BTFO during invasion of Pandaland
>18-1
If the Horde is smart they'll submit to Zandalari leadership.
Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei are for ERP.
Probably. He seems to have lines for all the Horde races.
Current power ratings:
Goddess tier:
Liadrin (Holy Pussy)
Alleria (Shadow Pussy)
Xal'atath (Voice Pussy)
Vanessa (Hope Pussy)
Whitemane (Unslayable Pussy)
Khadgar (Khadgar Pussy)
Illidan (Scars Pussy)
Great tier:
Jaina (Angry Magic Pussy)
Valtrois (Sassy Magic Pussy)
Alexstrasza (Life Pussy)
Moira (Dark but still Holy Pussy)
Fareeya (Space Goat Pussy)
Velen (Development Pussy)
Anduin (Boy Pussy)
Good Tier:
Thisalee (Bird Pussy)
Chromie (Time Pussy)
Eonar (Titanic Pussy)
Valeera (Rehab Addict Pussy)
MMM (6 Armpit Pussy)
Greymane (Wolf Pussy)
Darion (Monster Pussy)
Okay Tier:
Thalyssra (Bland Magic Pussy)
Lyleth (Snobbish Pussy)
Tess (Royal Rogue Pussy)
Lorna (Gunslinger Pussy)
Maiev (Justice Pussy)
Bolvar (World Police Pussy)
Jarod (Incest Pussy)
Bad Tier:
Mayla (Cow Pussy)
Rogers (Warcrime Pussy)
Vereesa (Just Bland Pussy)
Azshara (Octopussy)
Voss (Necrotic Pussy)
Turalyon (Cuck Pussy)
Malfurion (Tyrande's Pussy)
Shit tier:
Tyrande (Unwashed Pussy)
Sylvanas (Dead Pussy)
Sigryn (Felblood Pussy)
Aggra (Shit Pussy)
Maiden of Vigilance (Fuck that bitch!)
Nathanos (Sylvanas' Pussy)
Aethas (How did he survive this long!?)
RIP Honorable Mentions tier:
Ysera (She never got to mate with Deathwing T_T)
Xe'ra (Windchime just wanted her husbando T_T)
Amber (Teamkilled by her own people because of a Dreadlord T_T)
Margaux (Tried to protect her workers from injustice T_T)
Aegwynn (Wanted her boy to grow up strong, turns out he's the Devil T_T)
Tirion (Truly the greatest paladin: chivalrous, valiant and autistic T_T)
The whole point behind everything after Warcraft 3 is that the conflict was more of a cold war. Neither side wanted to wipe the other out, and they didn't want the war to escalate again. Stormwind was in dire straits after just being rebuilt, as well, so they were in no position to be picking fight.
"Putting the WAR back in Warcraft" has always been retarded because Warcraft 3 and Vanilla-TBC-WotLK were not focused on the faction conflict at all. WotLK was the worst of the faction conflict stuff between the three and it was literally only Garrosh and Varian being assholes about it while Thrall and Jaina tried to rein them in. And Jaina succeeded. By the end of it, Varian acted honorably to the Horde and showed actual hopes of peace becoming a thing.
Then suddenly the conflict exploded for literally no reason in Cataclysm. The only things I can think of that would justify it are the Broken Front and Garrosh becoming Warchief, but it's kind of dumb. The faction conflict only became the War in Warcraft in Cataclysm, after having not been a real thing since Warcraft 2 (in which the factions were composed of entirely different groups with the same names).
So, the Drust were basically just Humans or Vrykul, weren't they?
That's a copypasta mate.
I know, I just wanted to start a discussion instead of RvB memeing.
What about Yrel.
Yeah, a strange sort of native humanoid, from the look of it. They're scary motherfuckers after being driven to extinction though.
No one cares about Yrel.
Touche.
Yeah, but most of the strangeness comes from the wood their new bodies are made from If you made him a proper flesh person again, this would literally just be a Human or Vrykul depending on size.
Really, the whole themes of Drustvar less remind me of the Witcher, and more of Fomorians from Irish mythology.
Burn all the INSECTS so the world can return to the good old days when he and his other Elemental pals were chilling on Azeroth fighting each other from time to time before the ugly meaty things with Shadow powers colony-dropped on their world.
He looks so happy.
>Fomorians from Irish mythology.
When you put it like this, it makes scary amount of sense. But more with general mixing of Irish origin stories.
>Gilneans sail to Kul Tiras and establish a place for themselves there
>As it was before the Light worship spreading from Lordaeron, which never took that strong of a hold in Gilneas anyway, local religion formed around the sea worship
>They exterminated mysterious locals/pushed them to the Underworld
Drustvar Hags makes me think more of mythological Banshees and their origin than what is usually associated with the term "Banshee" nowadays, even outside Warcraft
If you would be allowed to be unleashed, you would be happy too.
Now when I recall that insectoid Aqir were among minions of the Old Gods, Ragnaros calling mortals INSECTS makes a lot of sense, along with his hatred towards them.
Well, it's the feeling I got from the beginning. I only have a passing familiarity with Irish mythology, but the datamined text about the ruler of the Drust just led me even further to that conclusion.
And hey, it turns out the Drust King even has an eye in the middle of his forehead, like Balor did.
Speaking of Aqir, they datamined a Kith'ix model (the C'thraxxi that lead Azj'Aqir in the war with the Trolls).
Looks like our buggy friends may be making a comeback.
Shit taste
Human tribe the Arathi never conquered.
Well then, I'd say that makes this the most interesting Human lore since WoW began. It's a shame they're all dead, even if fat humans turn out to be their descendants. But if there's some way to bring them back, they'd make a cool race.
I'd argue that it really started in Wrath. The Forsaken starting point in the Howling Fjord is as much about sabotaging the Alliance fleet as it is about fighting the vrykul, and where Shattrath had the Scryers and the Aldor, Dalaran was straight up divided between the Horde and the Alliance.
It was also the expansion where the story went from being fairly hands-off, to a comic book gallery for the faction leaders. And the expansion that introduced phasing. Not to mention the absurd amount of shilling they did for Varian when he was (re)introduced. I'm so fucking glad he's gone, not that it helps much at this point.
Hold on a second... He was slain by the Forest Trolls and they built Zul'Aman there.
And Zul'Aman raid is basically entrance to their lands, as what we have seen in game so far is more or less modern Forest Troll borderlands.
And in retrospect, it might explain shadowy powers of Hex Lord Malacrass, whose powers were only alluded to in his Dungeon Journal
>Rumored to be the most feared witch doctor of the Amani tribe in decades, Hex Lord Malacrass has done the unthinkable and sealed the essences of several mighty troll animal gods in their strongest champions ... keeping the darkest one for himself.
>Malacrass had studied the Zandalari high priests and their ability to call upon the favor of the animal gods. He also knew that the elves had magically bound one of the mighty naaru, using it to channel the power of the Light into their own ranks. Malacrass had devised a similar plan: to seal the power of the animal gods within the bodies of the Amani's strongest warriors. Zul'jin quickly approved the plan and lent his full support. Malacrass experimented tirelessly and succeeded in imbuing four warriors with the essence of mighty animal gods: the lynx, dragonhawk, bear, and eagle. Some adventurers fear that Malacrass may have bound a fifth, even darker essence within his own soul....
Would it mean we might actually help the Amani?
>And hey, it turns out the Drust King even has an eye in the middle of his forehead, like Balor did.
Yup, seems they may be borrowing from all 3 different tribes that lived in Ireland before coming of Sons of Milesius from Iberia.
Possibly. There's datamined dialogue of both the Amani and Revantusk on Zandalar.
The Amani are still butthurt about Zul'jin and the Blood Elves, while the Revantusk reaffirm their friendship with the Horde.
>still punching Neptulon in the flank, even though they're fighting for their lives
What a dick.
Also, remember when Neptulon was described as the most evil and sadistic of the elemental lords?
>tfw Bwonsamdi brings back spirits of both Vol'jin and Zul'jin to aid him in Nazmir
I'm sorry. Yrel was just unfortunate enough to originate from the expac everyone wants to forget.
Besides, we have new, superior lightforged waifus now in Fareeya and Y'mera.
The yellow eyes kill it for me, but the voice acting on both of them was pretty good.
>Y'mera
Exile Y'mera. Why have you returned?
Conservatory resources are not available to one of your... status.
Mac'Aree was the best zone of Argus.
The other two were just "fel on steroids". Mac'Aree is a cool glimpse at pre-legion Eredar civilization.
Well, for some reason Zandalar has a C'thraxx named "Myth'ix" on it now. Maybe they were going with Kith'ix at first, until they were told he died in Zul'aman.
Or maybe there's a reason why they made multiple color variants for this model, and we're going to try make up for the damage that's been done to the Trolls. There was a prophecy about all the tribes being united once more, wasn't there?
Perfect. I believe the prophecy was also that the first King of the Trolls would rule over them all once more. Kind of makes me wonder where Bwonsamdi came from, and if he was once of the first rulers of their kind.
Also, if the player makes a deal with Bwonsamdi that gives him the souls of everyone you kill, and he gets stronger with every soul he receives, what happens after you kill G'huun?
Not that I particularly care either way (I jumped ship at the end of Mists, never touched WoD), but they could always have MU Yrel be one of the Lightforged.
>superior
Sorry but you're wrong.
>get soul transferred into a golem to be an over-officious prick forever
Quorum is doing what he loves and I love him for it.
Nah, the first King of the Trolls was a guy named Dazar.
Zul is trying to rez him in Zuldazar questing.
I thought MU Yrel is super dead?
The first King of the Zandalari was Dazar. Bwonsamdi recalls a time before the Empire. Before Trolls were Trolls.
What exactly did she DO? That area's not all Fel-pocked, so whatever got her kicked out must have been pre-Legion.
>tfw no mount pet to charge down mounted knights
She rebelled against KJ and Archimonde, siding with Velen?
The civil war started out as mostly a conventional war by the looks of the cutscenes. The Fel was used to mutate the eredar but much like with the Orcs the Legion didn't come in and obliterate everything themselves until much later. By then Mac'Aree was trivial.
Pretty much exactly a Purifier.
Why can't the Draenei/Eredar just be a fantasy race?
I presumed it was just rebellious shenanigans. He doesn't sound morally disgusted with her or anything, just annoyed.
Probably just disobeyed her teachers too much.
Someday they'll let hunters use certain pets as mounts.
Anyhow, speaking of Bwonsamdi, the heavy Death Magic themes, and the fact Blizzard paid enough attention to detail to mention Zandalari dislike undead because of Bwonsamdi and replaced all the spirithealers with him, what does everyone think his plans are for Sylvanas? Because there's no way in hell he's not the one who put her on the throne.
What are the chances this is just how his deals work out, all just a scheme to milk everyone for all the souls they're worth?
Probably, they had a Commander Yrelka in the 7.3 ptr, but IIRC she got turned into Fareeya
Second one seems to fit Forsaken more due to undead not smelling so good so yeah, 3rd's probably Tauren.
Bwonsamdi certainly seems like the type of guy who'd start a war so he could get all those souls.
The entire situation with Sylvanas and Alleria puts me to mind of a dumb fan theory I made long ago, when I'd beaten Brood War for the first time and headcanoned that Kerrigan was actually Sarah Kerrigan's evil twin sister Lisa Kerrigan. My hope was that some day a Starcraft 2 would come out where the real Sarah Kerrigan would show up and kill her impostor evil sister with a gun.
I never made an equivalent theory for Sylvanas because unlike Kerrigan she was never likeable, not even while alive, but the form fits.
>Model is named Vigo
Scourge of Carpathia, Sorrow of Moldavia, Vigo the Carpathian, Vigo the Cruel, Vigo the Torturer, Vigo the Despised, Vigo the Unholy!
youtube.com
Dark Iron female voice is really, really bad.
Shifts from Excited bad scottish, to Slavic in almost every sentence and a few of them go Scottish-Slavic-Cockney and it's all super tinny.
Where are those?
Playable Mantid or Arakkoa when
The quality of the sound doesn't do it any favors but you'd only ever play a DIDF for the look anyway.
These puns. They hurt me.
wowhead.com
>Tread carefully, mon. Da moment da Princess be done wit' you, ya gonna have a chat wit' my knife about what da Horde did to Zul'jin.
>Da Horde chose there precious blood elves over us. And den dey killed our greatest leader, Zul'jin.$b$bBlood. Ya kind owe us a lot of blood, mon.
>We be a long way from da Hinterlands, but know that da Revantusk always be friends to da Horde.
>Da Revantusk be rememberin' da Horde's help. We be ready to pay it back.
Right. But then comes the next part. Sylvanas has shown perfect willingness to bargain with shady Death Gods before. When the next path comes and she finally arrives on Zandalar, what are the chances she's going to see if she can't make the same kind of bargain with Ol' Bwonsamdi? And what are the chances he's going to send her off on all sorts of stupid shit?
If she can't get immortality, a spot in the Troll afterlife couldn't be too bad for a little elf like her, at least when compared to hell. I mean, it's practically guaranteed Sylvanas isn't going to be able to resist trying to ask for or steal his power.
May have something to do with the fact that the council who summoned him were mages and warlocks.
Bwonsamdi hates Undead with a passion though.
Unlike Helya, Bwonsamdi isn't a fucking retard. He knows what Sylvanas has been doing over the last decade, stealing people from their passage into the afterlife. Bwonsamdi isn't a fucking god of necromancers you tool, he'd obliterate her the first chance he got.
So, what is the thing that the goblins are mining from that huge sword?
>he'd obliterate her the first chance he got.
The fucker probably put her on the throne.
That's why he's probably got a plan to completely screw her in a bargain. Look at the Nazmir questing and you can see what happened to the last person he granted eternal life. He screwed them.
>Look at Nazmir questing
For those who want context, part of Nazmir shows Bwonsamdi granted a Troll woman eternal life in exchange for her daughter's soul...and then manipulated the player into killing said Troll woman so he'd have them both.
He'll grant you a reprieve from death, but Ol' Bwonsamdi will have you in the end.
>The fucker probably put her on the throne
No, that was Dave Kosak.
wot
this guy for Warchief
Azerite. The crystallized blood of Azeroth. In effect, the wound has spawned a crystalline version of the Well of Eternity, and the goblins are stripmining the fuck out if it all.
Exactly. Besides, I think Sylvanas might be willing to tolerate the Troll afterlife over the hell that awaits her otherwise. I mean, there are worse fates than spending all eternity surrounded by large, muscular Troll men.
Amani being salty about the Horde allying with blood elves is pretty rich. Zul'jin was the one who abandoned the orcs once the Second War turned, he only had himself to blame. Also...
>greatest leader
>got himself captured by elves and had to be rescued by orcs
I guess that just about sums up the Amani.
I dunno. She's a Windrunner. She'd much prefer human men.
In Chronicles, it was mostly written that Thaurissan tried to summon something to aid him, but his rage over death of his wife brought the strongest of Elementals that happened to have personality related to Rage, which are fire elementals.
And that's how Ragnaros was brought out from Firelands back to Azeroth, in the middle of Redridge Mountains.
Then she just has to sell him the souls of all her Forsaken as well.
>implying she's not going to Helheim as part of her bargain with Helya
I'm sure Nathanos is headed there too. Unless Saurfang and Liadrin don't leave enough for him to end up in the afterlife
If she can bargain for Nathanos to be taken with her, she'll have her Human Ranger along, I doubt that Ol' Bwonsamdi is too petty to grant her such a small request.
>everything Sylvanas has done is a long con to get her a human harem afterlife
Cool, I bet it is useful for all sorts of crazy shananingans and plot-shit
>Implying there's anyone who can cash in on that bargain after Helya got killed and Odyn gained ability to enter there at will.
He's perfectly willing to be petty, but he's not going to turn down free souls.
It's a shame Odyn's there now. It'd be much nicer if some other Death God could just grab all the souls there while no one was looking.
Bwonsamdi would rip her soul out and toss it to the Void where it belongs. He knows the score better than anyone. You don't get into his domain by "tolerating" his afterlife, you get it by showing proper reverence to him.
I really want something bad to happen to Odyn. Sure, Helya was an evil bitch, but almost every bad thing that happens to the Keepers and Watchers over the WoW timeline would have been prevented if Odyn hadn't been such an arrogant dick.
Yes, but there ARE multiple dark Iron Shaman NPCs, including Shadowforge and Arglemach. (Who is an elemental golem Doombot essentially)
But he wants people sent to him via sacrifice, he doesn't seem very picky.
>You don't get into his domain by "tolerating" his afterlife, you get it by showing proper reverence to him.
No, you get into it because he fucking wants everyone, and he gains power the more souls he gets. You're a Blood Troll necromancer? He'll buy your souls by the thousands. Why throw away Sylvanas's?
I hope he makes a pact with Sylvanas that she joins him in death so she worries less about going straight to hell for being undead. That, and Bwonnie extorts souls out of the whole horde for unlimited power.
Because your description doesn't make sense for a Warcraft deity, let alone a Loa.
That's literally what he asks for in the Nazrim Alpha "Bring me a million souls."
has someone seen this?
>wowhead.com
>NEW Gorgrond
>Orgrimmar Embassy: Horde Battleship - The Windrunner
>Stormwind Embassy: Alliance Battleship - Wind's Redemption
Draenor orcs on a full fledged Civil War?
A shady bastard who gains power from souls and doesn't give a damn about where he gets them from doesn't make sense to you? He tricked a woman into murdering her child for eternal life, just so he could trick you into killing her. Just so he'd get two souls. He's got Zalazane's spirit hanging out right in his Necropolis. Literally. Zalazane's soul is hanging by a rope from his ceiling.
He's got people paying for contracts by giving him Blood Troll souls, who are all scum. He's absolutely indiscriminate. You probably get treated better if he likes you, but he takes everyone.
Who knows?
>wowhead.com
if the Alliance grabs Draenor Orcs just for shits and giggles thanks to Saurfang, i'll laugh my ass off
what did Saurfang do?