Primaris Marines

Honestly, this.

They got three new augmentations tacked on. One is more of a mechanical augmentation rather than a gene-seed based organ, one is basically just HGH/Steroids, and the last is just extra adrenaline.

Cawl didn't do anything crazy or revolutionary that the Emperor couldn't, he just tacked on some cool extra stuff.

My main issue with Cawl is that he did everything.
>New space marines
>New armour for said space marines
>New guns for said space marines
>Multiple new vehicles for said space marines
By comparison the legendary Arkhan Land only discovered the land speeder and land raider.

As I understand, Cawl is like hive mind of many copies of himself, so actually he is more than o e person.

Land wasn't around for 10000 years. Or even a thousand for that matter.
Though I do admit, once the dust settled my biggest complaint about them was that they were made by a 10000 year old Magos no one has ever heard about because apparently he's been a hikikomori in Mars' basement.

I have no Idea what they are. Should I remain blissfully ignorant?

The new bolters are replaced with tacticool ones, on the TT you can field manlets and primaris, but the sad truth in dark imperium is that Primaris are the new main marines. Old school marines are few and far between. Most chapters have taken heavy losses and had them replaced with chads. It does suck because I have a manlet army and find them far better points value than primaris... especially my grey hunters with a plasma gun tacked onto the squad... but it seems the future of space marines will be chads.

Take Space Marines and inject them with steroids. Now you have Chadmarines. Taller, faster, stronger. More handsome.

I like them. I like how they add something fresh to the game. I understand the point of 40k is the decay of the Imperium & such, but I think they are a nice addition. I look forward to seeing what happens to them. & How Chaos might start making its own jacked up Marines too

*Manlet marines are getting replaced, and here's why it's a good thing*

The models are awesome. I guess if I can watch a star wars movie even after the Prequels (which are somehow vastly more original than the new Star Wars run) I can accept the Primaris Marines.

What gets me, this is where everything gets weird. It's no secret the Imperium of Man is a shit hole of stagnation. GW with one little magic wand has decided to radically change that. Beyond the Primaris Marines, do we want a 40k where the Imperium is lead by the Reasonable Marines? Should we just go play Star Trek?

It's not just the Primaris Marines. Now Imperial Fists are fixing the Phalanx. Like, everywhere that isn't already anhilated, the Imperium is actually getting better. The fucking Marines Maleveloent actually saved a stranded Custode.

The Marines Maleveolent did something nice, the Phalanx is being fully repaired, technology is moving forward. WTF is this. The Draconian religon has clearly taken a back seat.

GW isn't wrong for needing to find a way to allow tech to move forward, after all they want to make new models for their most popular faction. But they've really changed the Universe's culture and did it on a hairpin dime turn.

How would we of reacted if Intercessors where simply the new tactical marine? That would also be tough to accept because clearly they're huge!

Also, is GW ever going to go back to make human sized models? in AOS and 40k all the new models are giants. Men dont' fight wars anymore...

>I have no Idea what they are. Should I remain blissfully ignorant?
Take an Astartes and pump him full of HGH and give him nicer base gear.

>Land wasn't around for 10000 years
Literally no human has lived for 10,000 years outside of the warp or stasis. Just another thing that makes Cawl more of a special snowflake. There are so much crap about Cawl that it builds up.
>Invented everything
>Improved on something the emperor made
>Older than any non-primarch/emperor character
>Came out of nowhere
>Best buds with Guilliman

I would rather just have Cawl just invent the primaris marines, or maybe kickstart a technological revolution. ie.
>Cawl shows up with primaris marines
>Gathers other maverick techpriests to develop new technology
>His secret conclave of mechanicus guys begin rapidly developing new guns, armour, and vehicles for his primaris marines
I would also make Cawl be regular aged for a mechanicus dude (so up to 2000 years old max) and say he is the successor of the successor of the guy who was tasked with making primaris marines by Guilliman.

Used to be that fa/tg/uys read all of a post before replying to it.

shut up fagtron

"Better" is still not great. Rowboat is making things slightly less shit and more efficient. The Ecclesiarchy is still there. The Imperium is still a mostly stagnant mess.

The Marines Malevolent despise normal humans, but even they are fanboys of the Custodes. And saving the info. on the Primaris tech was pretty important. Even assholes can do their job.

Not to mention, as the Imperium starts to get a little bit brighter, the evils around it gets darker.

They're shit.

Thats a lie! Thats a god damned lie!

The primaris got me back into the hobby. I dont care about the lore around them or whatever, i care that they look fucking huge and awesome next to human sized minis

Who's to say he isn't a successor? Well, a successor as only the AdMech can have.

His own memories that he can't keep in his body fill three personal starships of his. And he has stated that large portions of his memories are lost, and curiously absent from the records. It's entirely possible that Cawl is, in fact, just the latest in a long line of Belisarius Cawls. He gets a new initiate when his organics start to fail, and plugs in his memories and knowledge, possibly carefully tailored; thus creating a being shaped by his experience which makes him the new Cawl.

And for plot convenience, this transference is so taxing that it kills the previous Cawl and is possibly imperfect, which is why he has huge gaps in his memories and databanks. Also because he encodes and squirrels the more dangerous or sensitive data away and redacts a good deal of his regrettable experimental results.

>The verdict is that you're a redneck whitebred chickenshit motherfucker.
I bet you could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

>Also the Primaris Marines do bad things to in-universe consistency. Suddenly this Magos goes and perfects what the Emperor himself started?
If they don't do anything to expand upon what exactly Cawl was doing and give him flaws, it will suck, but there's no reason for GW not to do that once 9th rolls around and they (hopefully) don't have a corporate obligation to say their new guys do no wrong and are perfect.

>And if those new tacticool bolters are better than the regular ones, why not just replace the regular bolters with the new tacticool ones?
In IRL terms because they're absurdly huge compared to manlet marines (and ruin the scale on primaris too, being absurdly long with no stock). But in fluff terms there is indeed less reason to not standardize upon the new bolter other than that stocks of old bolters have been accumulating for 10,000 years as sacred relics and the production lines on forge worlds already recognise them as not being heretical.
The in-fluff size difference between marinelets and primaris is small enough that they should definitely be easily useable, given that at best the primaris marines are only more or less a foot taller than normal marines.

the Emperor and if you can actually read then literally thousands of unnamed gene-wizards on the moon before any Primarchs had been found or the means to stabilize half the legions' geneseed was discovered

during which time the Emperor was designing a chair to make in his retirement

Modern 40k lacks the grit and the humour of past 40k.
>Not to mention, as the Imperium starts to get a little bit brighter, the evils around it gets darker.
Good vs Evil? In my 40k?

Something else to consider is that things are getting better in the Imperium, as long as you're on the right side of the great rift. Considering that the Eye of Terror is crossing the galaxy now, and that a good 1/3 to 1/2 of the Imperium is cut off from the light of the Astronomicon, things aren't getting rosier everywhere.

we're what, a year in?

they'll get around to it, the early Marine fluff didn't have anything about flaws at all

most of that didn't come until 2E, and even then it was played down or limited to a few unique chapters

I don't think they're actually that much better than normal marines to justify being used as a last ditch thing. In 30k Corax's marines were bred to mature faster, and Fabius Bile's experiments have all been about Slaaneshi excess, whereas Primaris marines are about a foot taller, take to new recruits' genes more easily, and have three (?) extra organs that make them more survivable. Not exactly reinventing the wheel.
Plus we will just have to wait and see what Fabius Bile's end game is and what he did wrong in Mechanicus terms to make these alterations.

Horrible fluff implentation, I love some of the models and I wish they had gotten more stuff and some cheap transport.

>The Marines Maleveolent did something nice, the Phalanx is being fully repaired, technology is moving forward. WTF is this. The Draconian religon has clearly taken a back seat.
Cawl is one guy within the Mechanicus, and Guilliman's reach against the edicts of the ecclesiarchy doesn't actually extend any further than reinforcing the majority of the space marine chapters' nonbelief in the letter of the imperial faith.
Despite being a primarch, Guilliman is just one guy within a system that has had 10,000 years of inertia, and he is enough of a pragmatist to just put up with the idiosyncrasies in its greatest time of crisis for at least a few millennia.
If anyone has institutional power it's Cawl, who has had 10,000 years to work behind the scenes to build probably the most extensive network of techpriests loyal to him above the Omnissiah. But even then, 99% of the Forge Worlds in the galaxy are not on his side and only produce his new gimmicks because Guilliman okay'd them with the authority of being Imperial Regent. Even then, they are likely to be extremely unhappy making heretical designs based on the forbidden idea of "innovation".

>he is enough of a pragmatist to just put up with the idiosyncrasies in its greatest time of crisis for at least a few millennia.
He's already on the cliff's edge of drinking the Imperial Cult kool-aid. Probability from what they've written in the novels says that at best he's going to be a cult reformer like Sebestian Thor.

I hope the GW plan is something like:
>8e
The Custodes are faring out from Terra in order to retain order.
Girlyman's empire is moving forward with innovation.
New Marines are joining the battle to fuck up the enemies of the empire.

>9e
Corruption is starting to seep into the new Empire of Man
The Mechanicus is splintering itself over the speed of innovation
The first Primaris Marines have fallen to Chaos.

>When you team up with your Custode big brothers to shit on Manlets and Grey Cucks

My desired future (head?)canon is that Dorn comes back and in a totally unexpected turn of events has become a dedicated believer in the emperor's divinity, whereas before he was fanatically loyal to the emperor's direct denial of it.
He's still the same uncompromising personality and "autist", but now he identifies more strongly with being the last line of defence for the people of the Imperium rather than simply the Emperor.

I like them. I've not really been a fan of the older marine styles, but I like how weighty and superhuman these guys feel. Though I play Inq28, where a good deal of truescale cultists live, so I can reasonably just call them Marines and never have to make explicit mention of Primaris so long as I don't field Gravis armor.

...

>My desired future (head?)canon is that Dorn comes back and in a totally unexpected turn of events has become a dedicated believer in the emperor's divinity,
Actually hinted at in the old Index Astartes. It said Dorn was bitter as the Cult spread because they began to revere the Primarchs as divinity as well but Dorn felt only the Emperor was worthy of such devotion.

>Alpha Legion are anti-heros now

Nice.

There's potential for a release that plays into a reformation with a Sororitas rerelease (which will never happen). An Imperial Saint, maybe even Saint Celestine herself, but probably a new character to make new models to sell, shows up and starts some form of reformation within the Ecclesiarchy. New units and kits release along with new character, everything is fine and dandy.

Still, models drive fluff, since fluff is secondary. If GW doesn't think it'll sell, they won't make it.

How many Marines But Better elements are there in 40K now? Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Primaris, Custodes are an actual amry now. Power creep is getting beyond stupid. I'm half expecting them to pull upgrades custodes from their arse soon.

>all his developments revolve around "take X and make it bigger and add more guns"
>ushered in a new era of mass-scale warfare and a colossal crusade
>borderline heretek
>10k years old
The Cawl really just a Mekboy who managed to reach max level?

Otherwise the Indomitus crusade ending with a Cawl/Primaris heresy would be pretty cool.

The new novel made some of them sound like it. But I felt it was plenty explicit that there's also plenty of chaos worshippers and general dick-headed anarchists and that as a whole the Alpha Legion has long since lost any kind of overall guiding objective or principle.

I liked the Alpha Legion how they were presented in the Siege of Vraks.

The Indomitus Crusade ended just before that latest Ultramar campaign.

>that creepy little pale fucker by the headless body
the fuck is that meant to be?

That guy.
Just to the left of the main Primaris Captain taking up the focus of the painting.
The guy holding up a very large, very shallow dish.
Him.
What the fuck is he doing?

Some kind of Mechanicus servo-construction I'd imagine.

...

Generally that people think too much about them. They're just a loose lore justification for why we get truescale marines without invalidating the manlet marine armies.

chapter serf

I think he's presenting it so the captain can put this possessed guy's head on it as a trophy.

I think he's twisting off that death marine's head, possibly to add some filler to the head-plate.

There's another one below his feet fucking around with a dead CSM's head looking like he broke his neck and one flying above them.
They look like some sort of small creepy vampire familars or some shit.

I'm guess the bowl is for the big dead guys head

>Cawl literally builds AI versions of himself that have an unnatural presence in the warp
>all this
Cawl has many minds with which to devote himself to primaris marines.

They look less like serfs and more like some sort of spooky tech/servitor familiar

...

Servitors, most likely. Every high ranking marine in most Chapters are going to have a good deal of them to attend to him, and accompany him into battle. Cherubs and relic bearers and the like. Like says.

...

...

Maybe this is the fate of Serfs who serve for too long, not enough body/mind to work with, so they become servitors?

But still, fucking creepy to have familiars around to collect and display the heads of your enemies.

...

...

They can also become the machine spirit for the Hunter's missiles.

3 and 5 seem like the most likely ones

How would that be?

>That's not fucking canon?
>That's fucking canon holy shit.

I chose to believe that primaris are just semi space marines made from ogryn. It makes the most sense

...

"Brother ventis, head north and range around the cultist position, remain there until you receive word to trigger your thermo charges."

"Brother adris, take your combat squad west and spread out among the ruins, draw the cultists fire. subversion and confusin tactics, make them think this city is crawling with astartes."

"and...erm...Primaris brother preck... you SHOOT BIG GUN AT RED MEN. OKAAAY?"

the models are cool, the fluff is stupid.
They could have just started releasing a line of 'true-scale marines' and it would have been fine.

no it wouldn't. People would have raged that IT INVALIDED THEIR WHOLE ARMY NOW I HAVE TO REPLACE ALL MY MODELS SCREW YOU GAMES WORKSHOP I HATE YOU!

Primaris fluff is an inelegant solution to a double edged problem . Either make truescale and upset people, or add a new marine type and upset people. In the end the option they went with was the one that caused the least REEEE among fans.

I've always been enamored with the idea of the Primaris Marines being, at least initially, somewhat dense to the state of the world.

>Wanting to follow outdated tactical advice against the an enemy they've never seen before
>Asking shit like, "What's a fucking wheat?"
>Being fucking literal about their orders. Like, if they are told to "stand over there", unless someone tells them otherwise, they will fucking stand "over there" until they die or wander off to find where everyone else has gone to. Possibly after standing there for several days.

>
I like the fluff piece about them getting frustrated with standard marines because they keep asking questions about the heresy and the age of primarchs.

Also I like the idea that the first primaris marines were heresy marines kept in stasis and that they're as fucking confused as guilliman is about the whole thing.

>Also I like the idea that the first primaris marines were heresy marines
Only the ones that were a part of the very first batch were. The majority are pretty naive and inexperienced by comparison.

indeed. But it's a still a fun idea.

Hell, maybe the newer ones pretend to be 10,000 year veterans and just make up blatant lies.

"Brother vestus, what was it like , before the heresy?"

"It was sick brother deemus, Horus used to do kickflips off the palace of terra and dorn would film it. one time we warped on over to the damocles sector and gave all the tau nuggies."

"But brother, the tau weren't around then...?"

"... Nah bro, we just ..like...we just said that cus they were dweebs."

Why did chaos get reescale without adressing it, tho?

They've always been whatever you want them to be.

because the warp aint gotta explain shit.

Because the marine range is already TOO developed so GW can re-imagine marine units instead of selling yet another version of them.

One guy has a basin collecting blood, another is crawling on the ground collecting stuff from dead dudes, & another is flying around playing "Let the Bodies hit the Floor"

GW's pretty blatant attempt at revitalizing their Space Marine line one last time before they have the second Horus Heresy and reboot the timeline.

hopefully, this will backfire spectacularly.

I'm going to be a faggot here, but strategically the imperium would have been much better off with Cawl inventing a better standard firearm for the guard instead of a handful of improved super soldiers. Imagine every guardsman in the imperium issued with something like a reverse-engineered tau pulse-rifle.

to be fair we don't know that he hasn't.

Just wait astra millitarum two, electro boogaloo.

We imperial pulse-rifles with power bayonets for all guardsmen.

*we need

>The Draconian religon has clearly taken a back seat.

Fantasy, high or low, is about escapism. Look around you: the religious extremists are everywhere. Not just those daesh shitheads, bleeding out on the sand: fuckin Mike "I won't have dinner with a woman who isn't my wife because she might rape my purity" Pence, ffs. Would-be senators getting caught out about their well-documented child abuse and pursuit of minors and practically excusing themselves by quoting Genesis 19:30-38. Still getting votes from some of their core supporters not because they haven't been convicted, or because they're the only party candidate, but because scripture says those other fuckers are the antichrist. Hindu extremists wiping out whole towns; Russia - I don't know what the fuck is going on with Russia, one minute they had the Eastern Orthodoxy and the next they were marching around putting gays to death under the banner of Gadget Hackwrench.

Groups like the Lord's Resistance Army aren't funny any more. We live in a global world; a lot of the nerds likely to be coming in to GW stores with spending money as adults are also likely to have seen this shit first-hand. They don't want to be reminded of walking into a village of rape-mutilated adults who've come to fear their own children by some weird off-hand passage in the fluff about the Schola Porgenia raising "orphans" to be faceless storm troopers. Nobody wants a flashback while they're trying to find the rules for a fucking multilaser. That's before you get to the far larger groups of people who've been exposed to the horrors of this shit online.

In a couple of years, when things have calmed down, the brand might swing back toward it; for now - with years of fluff that basically backs up what a shitty job the Ecclesiarchy made of the Imperium, and solid evidence of the Emperor's (intentionally deceptive) atheism plan for the galaxy, GW can afford to wing it and play things differently.

I think Russ coming back - without explanation, but from Terra - and hunting down Guilliman as a presumed traitor attempting to usurp the Emperor would be much more fun.

Like G's big audience was just him standing around out of sight for a few hours, then he lied because he thought it was the best thing.

I don't know why there is fluff attached to them. I have gone through at least two arbitrary size changes to my SM since I started playing, I don't see how this one justifies a setting change.

because in the last 20 years warhammer players became a bunch of screaming fuckers?

Don't blame us. I just wanted a truescale tactical squad and for the timeline to continue slowly grinding forward.

Monkey paw.

Mental Health Inspector

I mean it's also hard to explain from a financial perspective as well. There are now 2 competing sizes for space marines, but if you pick just the bigger size it's almost impossible to have a playable list (apparently). Even worse, both these lines are plastic and plastic moulds are both almost indestructible and expensive. They could have stocked the existing tactical marine kit for another 15 years with no issue and it would have sold too. The deeper I go down this rabbit hole the less I understand.

Imagine if when they most recently upsized the Bloodthirster they kept actively making the older one as well. You are competing with yourself at that point. This is the logic that killed Epic--they were sucking sales from their own company. What changed?

>Hindu extremists wiping out whole towns
whats happening here user, do tell me entire towns being wiped out in my cuntree

Hindus just murdered a town of 10k innocent muslims with axes and flamethrowers in Kashmir because a muslim child disrespected a holy cow. Trump has suppressed the news because he hates muslims.