Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

To be fair, no sane person plays female dwarves.

The implication is that sentient undead don't rot anymore, or else they would all fall apart in a couple of years.

>Ebin
GATE is Japanese right-wing warcrime denier's fantasy.

what's the wow equivalent to "ultra-elite Japanese supersoldiers fight off CIA SOG, FSB spetznas and whatever the chinese special forces are called at the same time"?

Highmaul or HFC

>Forsaken with a more philosophical bent, still being amoral without being especially aggressive, who openly study what other societies forbid. Invaluable for their knowledge of dark arts, disease, and so on, both in how to use them and how to counter them. Things like that.
I imagine them as essentially very old, but very energetic people. Old people just stop giving a fuck about anything. They start wearing odd clothes, voicing socially unacceptable opinions, flirting with girls one fifth their age and so on. Basically, the proximity of the inevitable end makes them realise that the society is the largest crock of shit ever invented by people, and that they won't be penalised for taking a dump all over its conventions anymore because of their venerable age. And if the proximity of death makes people so relaxed and cynical, death itself must make them even more so. There's nothing in this world the Forsaken give a fuck about, they do whatever they want and don't what anyone else would think. They're the ultimate hakuna matata race. And this is actually supported by their insane hairstyles. It seems that they're openly doing now what they wanted to do in life, but never dared to due to fear of social ostracism.

And its light years beyond blizzard's worldbuilding

hey hold on, the mutts slavs and chinks killed each other and the goth loli killed the survivors.

hmm, yes you have a point. But I distinctly remember the nips being involved as well

Fuck off subhumans. Empty a clip into every weeb.

>guy points out jap nationalistic jerk off fantasy is what it is
>"subhuman"
Understandable that you're American because you definitely hit non-hostiles with collateral damage.

Look m8, we all know its japanese "Join the SDF and remake Asian Co-prosperity sphere" pamphlets disguised as a cutesy animu, but it has much better worldbuilding and character interactions than WoW.

What about mind rot, as they call it? Wasn't it canon?

Sylvanas' pets can do no wrong!

To be honest, I've got no idea what is or isn't canon about the Forsaken's condition anymore.

Seeing how it's only mentioned in one low level quest? Probably canon, but not very prominent. It's like undead Alzheimer's.

Sounds like one of those things from the RPG. If that's the case, no it's not.

Canon race/class combo for every spec:

>Warrior
Arms - Human
Fury - Orc
Protection - Dwarf

>Rogue
Assassination - Forsaken
Outlaw - Goblin
Subtlety - Worgen

>Hunter
Beast Mastery - Tauren
Marksmanship - Night Elf
Survival - Troll

>Mage
Arcane - Nightborne
Frost - Forsaken
Fire - Blood Elf

>Druid
Balance - Night Elf
Feral - Night Elf
Restoration - Tauren
Guardian - Tauren

>Priest
Holy - Draenei
Discipline - Human
Shadow - Forsaken

>Paladin
Holy - Draenei
Protection - Human
Retribution - Blood Elf

>Shaman
Elemental - Orc
Enhancement - Orc
Restoration - Troll

>Warlock
Affliction - Forsaken
Destruction - Blood Elf
Demonology - Orc

>Death Knight
Blood - Blood Elf
Frost - Forsaken
Unholy - Orc

>Demon Hunter
Havoc - Blood Elf
Vengeance - Night Elf

Any objections?

the canon frost DK is a human, both frost champions in Acherus are humans

It's a case when raising process does not go completely smoothly and they only look like regular Forsaken, but are actually more like Ghouls and Zombies.

It's not about the NPC's, it's about what fits. If the list was made looking at the corresponding NPC's in the game, most of them would be humans.

Try again, with including all race/class combos, but with listing them under preferred spec.
And I disagree on some points on your list, mainly:
>Tauren as Beast Mastery and not Survival
>No Troll Druids under Feral (Claws of Shirvallah talent, mon)
>No Dwarf Enhancement Shaman
>Not having Orc as Destruction Warlock and Gnome as Demonology

Hunter is all wrong. Beast Mastery is an orc. They are all about animal companions and taming. Heck, one of their racials is improved pet damage. Marksman has got to be a blood elf. Silvermoon is just going to produce the best archers. Survival is tauren. Until five minutes ago, these guys were exclusively nomadic, live off the land types. Plus, the Survival artifact is a tauren relic.

Thassarian has been the face of dual wielding DKs since the launch of Wrath, and the frost artifact is the shards of Frostmourne, a sword wielded by a human. There's no way to say that forsaken are more "canon" frost DKs than humans

Enhancement Shaman can't be anything but an orc.

Fuck canon class/race combos, it's better to figure out most likely spec choice for certain races.
For example, Unholy DK is the most obvious choice for Drenei and Tauren.

>Silvermoon is just going to produce the best archers.
laffingsentinels.png

>Unholy DK is the most obvious choice for Drenei and Tauren
Uh? How?

Which is why focusing on a single champion makes no sense.
Besides, from a certain point of view, most artifact appearances (especially hidden ones in some cases) are basically completely unrelated weapons with comparable power, while not being THE Artifacts that you get yourself.

I don't see the point of this exercise. Sure, some races are likely to leave closer towards some specs on some classes than others but there's no reason for there to be an 'archetypal' race for each spec.

Why would a Nightborne be the 'iconic' Arcane Mage? Why would a Worgen be the 'iconic' Subtlety Rogue? Why would any race be 'iconic' for any of these things in any particular way? Just say that some races lean towards certain options more than others are be done with it.

Speaking of things that don't make sense: Ironforge Shamans.

The process in which one is made into a Death Knight is a soul-twisting process that makes certain people antithesis of what they used to be. If there are races that would refuse to accept Death Knights back in their race, it's Tauren and Draenei, former due to their connection to Nature (that Death Knights are inherently enemy of), and the latter due to being completely lost to the Light.
Imagine being a Draenei, your connection to the Light is immense, even if you are a Warrior and not a Paladin. You fall in the conflict in Plaguelands, and are raised as a Death Knight. You no longer have, and never will ever again, connection to the Light, it's actually causing you pain now. You used to be Holy, now you are Unholy. Blood-drinking or wielding Frosty chills of Death isn't really your thing.

Will Forsaken ever get a good character representing them?

They can laugh when they produce an iconic archer other than Shandris. Every other major archer comes out of the Farstriders.

Plus, trying to pick one 'iconic' race that is the face of a spec is likely to cause needless sperg arguments like and .

Some races are likely to lean towards certain options more than others. For example, TBC Blood Knights were certainly flavored as Retribution Paladins before any other type of paladin and the Lightforged are probably as incapable of being Shadow Priests as the Ren'dorei are incapable of being Holy Priests. Even Discipline might be a little difficult for both of them.

Magni used a ritual of inherently shamanistic nature.
Wildhammers have Shamans, so ideas of Shamanism would spread to Ironforge Dwarves through cultural osmosis, just as Dark Irons are Warlock and Mage trainers, not Ironforge/Bronzebeards.

Does Helcular count?

What do you mean by good? Alonsus Faol is pretty hip.

>Wildhammers have Shamans
I would 100% be okay with Wildhammer shamans, because they're wild dwarves. Ironforge shamans are better than goblin shamans, but not by much.
>Warlock and Mage
Also stupid, especially since we're now getting the real thing.

He isn't Forsaken-affiliated, he's just sapient and free-willed undead.

Lilian Voss.

Alexi Barov and Nate are good.

I don't think Faol counts. He's not a member of the Forsaken. He broke free of the Scourge and went off and did his own thing. The Forsaken are pretty specifically their own culture.

Though, if there's any redemption for the Forsaken in the future, Faol's their best bet.

plz no

Because warcraft has guns dumb blood elf

To be fair, it's not specified what kind of undead he is.
Also Meryl Felstorm.

Just like Meryl Felstorm and Old Fillmaff.
Then again, the latter probably didn't even noticed he's actually dead.

Meryl's definitely not Forsaken. He's been undead for centuries.

Alonsus Faol and Old Fillmaff are both Scourge undead that became liberated from the Lich King's will at some point, but are unaffiliated with the Forsaken.
Meryl Felstorm is completely unconnected to the Scourge in every way, as the source of his undeath is his own magic.

WoW is better when it's about random, regular shmucks rather than jerking off the big lore figures. You can see it in the cinematics.

>vanilla cinematic showcases a bunch of random shmucks
Good game.
>TBC cinematic showcases the same shmucks, Illidan shows up but doesn't hog all the screen time
Good expansion.
>Wrath cinematic is 100% Lich King
Meh expansion.
>Cataclysm cinematic is all Deathwing wank
Horrible expansion.
>Mists cinematic is about two random shmucks, with guest appearance from Chen
Pretty good expansion.
>WoD cinematic is the Hellscream Family Drama Hour
Awful expansion.
>Legion cinematic is a big rimjob for the faction leaders
Bad expansion.

It's a rickety system, but it works.

Mists is shit and Legion is good.

>Mists
>Shit
How bad a taste can be? There is only one expansions that is undeniably shit, and it's WoD, which has no Troll dungeon.

>chinese aesthetics
>centred around a meme race
>extremely disconnected from the rest of the story
>I will never forgive SoO
WoD was unfinished and abandoned, but Mists would be shit even with the best content because the premise was unsalvageable.

Are you trying to say that the premise of WoD was remotely better?

So, your only legitimate argument is SoO?

Shadowmoon orcs for alliance and Alteraci for the horde?

Why would the pragmatic "always side with the winner" human kingdom side with the faction that just got shunted off of the continent?

A continent that was the birthplace of a Warcraft 3 hero being revealed to the world once more

OR

Literally time travel to erase the orc's reason to invade Azeroth only for them to invade Azeroth

I think it's pretty obvious which one is better.

There's literally no one else.

The Alliance will never trust Alterac again after their betrayal in the Second War.

But Alterac as a kingdom doesn't even exist anymore.

>Franklin "Gook Gaoler" Roosevelt

The OG horde powered by machines instead of fel was an interesting idea, and they could have made it work if they didn't make the Iron Horde such a bad joke in terms of power and if they didn't explicitly abandon the expansion. Hell, I think it was a missed opportunity to overhaul the quests once again and purge the Cataclysm memery in favour of new quests connected with the Iron Horde invasion.

The chinese aesthetics were cool, and after the suffocatingly boring slog that was Cataclysm, getting away from it all and doing something different wasn't just a good thing, it was fucking necessary for the health of the game. And pandaren weren't half the meme that orcs and goblins had become at that point.

Siege of Orgrimmar lasting for over a year was bullshit, though, although I blame that one on WoD development time than Mists itself.

Umm, it's clearly #2?

>Franklin "Yellow Fever Cleaver" Roosevelt

I disagree. It looked like a Korean MMO.

Oh right, forgot that they're the syndicate now, and the forsaken keep killing their dudes and taking their shit. Would any kind of dwarf join the horde? Stone, iron, trogg?
Tbh i just want to see the meltdown if the Alliance gets brown orcs over the Horde.

Shadowmoon orcs will instantly ally with the Lich King as soon as they learn of his existence.

>time traveling and alternate dimension shit on a planet we already visited before
>fighting literally orcs, Arakkoas, and ogres all over again
>we get to see the "hurr we only did bad stuff cause of demon blood but we're actually honourable" get totally tossed out the window when all the orcs agree to invade Azeroth again and kill the Draenei
>better than anything
Fuck, Mongrel Horde was a better idea than WoD was.

You don't know what Korean MMOs look like. They feature almost nothing that looks remotely Asian. It's just stereotypical medieval high fantasy, plus extremely detailed female character models.

>time traveling and alternate dimension shit on a planet we already visited before
Which is utterly differnet
>fighting literally orcs, Arakkoas, and ogres all over again
Much better than innumerable uninteresting furries that Blizzard artists shit out like a machine gun
>we get to see the "hurr we only did bad stuff cause of demon blood but we're actually honourable" get totally tossed out the window when all the orcs agree to invade Azeroth again and kill the Draenei
Warsongs have always been like this, and Garrosh specifically gave his technology to them.
>better than anything
Much better idea than Samwise's panda obsession: the expansion.

>stereotypical medieval high fantasy, plus extremely detailed female character models
So... WoW?

Those devs should just develop and sell chargen programs. They would make a killing.

Nah man, WoW female character models looks like PS1 assets compared to Korean MMOs

No, absolutely nothing like WoW, and even less like MoP-era WoW.

baka So, when are we getting night elf gals in high poly?

>Which is utterly differnet
In the same way that post Cataclysm Azeroth is "utterly different" from pre-Cata, AKA not really very much.
>Much better than innumerable uninteresting furries that Blizzard artists shit out like a machine gun
I guess Arakkoas and Saberons aren't furries.

Also Worgens and Taurens are equally furry as Pandas.
>Warsongs have always been like this, and Garrosh specifically gave his technology to them.
You're forgetting literally every other clan of orcs.
>Much better idea than Samwise's panda obsession: the expansion.
Much better than, "Warcraft Movie Advertisement: The Expansion"

>Much better than innumerable uninteresting furries that Blizzard artists shit out like a machine gun
The lore for all the races in Pandaria was really good, though. Even the fucking grummles had more compelling writing than all of Cataclysm combined.

Mists was exactly what a wow expansion should be
Discover a new land, meet some new people, explore some shit, kill some bad guys
Without all the RvB bs it would have been 10/10

Would you say that BfA is MoP 2.0 then?

Blizzards love stealing from their own games as much as from anything else, that's pretty much how zerg Overmind worked. Celebrates may have looked like they had distinct personalities, but they were still just a part of the Overmind.

I'm thinking going of making an alternate story after Frozen Throne instead of WoW. Is there much WoW alternate history discussion?

We'll see, but I'm thinking no
It seems like they're ramping the RvB shit up way higher
Definitely excited to fuck around in Zandalar tho

Why do Forsaken human fight for the Horde? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I wouldn't be so sure. Sure, it starts with RvB scenarios and we go to certain lands for the specific purpose of finding allies for RvB bullshit, but look at the zones and the dungeons. There is nothing with a RvB theme taking place in either of the continents. Kul Tiras and Zandalar both point out "hey there is some really shady old god stuff going on here." None of the instances or raids are RvB-based so far. The further we get into the expansion, the more focused on the Old Gods the expansion will become and more RvB will be forgotten.

The humans of the Alliance want literally nothing to do with them, as they believe that Lordaeron is human clay. I mean, living human clay. Their main interest was in exterminating the Forsaken and reclaiming Lordaeron for humanity.

On the other hand, the Horde had less experience with the Scourge than the Alliance, therefore had less exposure to the evils of the undead. While Thrall was still wary, it was the tauren that pushes for the Forsaken becoming members of the Horde, as they were very insistent that they could find a way to cure the Forsaken of their curse.

Thirteen years later...

Mists had some comfy zones and the Alliance into was great, pic related, WoD was pretty shit, but I enjoyed the orc removal in Nagrand and doing every single quest there in a tank, the soundtrack was also great once I levelled another character and didn't listen to Nam music instead. Cataclysm had Vashj'ir which is still one of my favorite zones in any expansion, and the theme is one of my favorites out of the entire game. My problem with Wrath were the zones, not enough snow, too cramped and too busy, it the trailer set it up to be this inhospitable isolated hellhole, and then you got two overly busy zones in boring tundra and dragonblight, the letter even had a nelf forest of some shit, a fucking jungle and crystalsong forest, what even wast he point of that? And then you have the fucking tournament in the lich king's doorstep, and the way everyone took time out of their day to go fuck with the scarlet crusade for some fucking reason, because the lich king of all people wasn't a more pressing concern? It only makes sense when I pretend it's Apocalypse Now and it's actually meant to be retarded, then it works: Alliance and Horde = Military, Argent Crusade = CIA, Argent Vanguard = Do Lung, tournament = bunny show, the Scourge = Communism, and the Scarley Onslaught = Kurtz. 100% agree on TBC and Vanilla.

>as they were very insistent that they could find a way to cure the Forsaken of their curse
>death and undeath
Are the Tauren dumb? Is Thrall/The Forsaken dumber for believing them

>asien steppe people
>that face

They're fucking spurdos.

I remember my rogue from Wrath. Used sniper rifle (don't remember name of the item, some low level gun with fucklong scope) in RP. Thorium bullets for extra damage and better armor penetration, mithril for extra range and better accuracy, fel iron when I really wanted to fuck someone up...

Well, makes no sense to me, I mean unless they are brainwashed. Why would someone who fraught against orcs join them, I would feel like a traitor. Not to mention that in reality it would be great to have undead on your side.

>mean unless they are brainwashed
Sylvanus can charm people