How powerful should lockpicking be?

>not using multiple different types of locks

There is no reason why you shouldn't have warded locks, pin tumbler locks, wafer tumbler locks, disc tumbler locks, lever tumbler locks, latches, magnetic locks, crossbars, chains, combination locks, armed guards, passwords, door viewers, murder holes in doorways, whatever completely alien locks&door security mechanism that magic allows, etc.

Depends on what's behind the fucking door.
Could be it opens in seconds because the key is not a big deal.
Could be that it's difficult, but not impossible, to open because it's a shortcut, and therefore meant to be a trial in and of itself.
Could be unpickable because you're supposed to go get the key, maggot.

A lock only serves to keep honest people out. A less moral person's only concern would be how much time and effort to put in, and whether the effort is worth it.

If the rogue has proficiency or mastery, and the locks are traditional mechanical contraptions then the answer is yes.

The real question is, will the rogue be able to open the lock before the patrol circles back or the water fills the chamber? I found time constraints to be much more interesting.

>masterlock
>3 seconds flat
Why do you lie on the internet? Seriously... you are so full of fucking shit i can smell you from here.
>t. user with actual locksmithing ability

Depends on how good the guy is at lockpicking and how much money did the BBEG put on locks.

Every conventional lock can be picked. Magic ones require special skills, but can be done as well.

Purpose of locks is not to keep locksmiths out, but everyone else.

Why is everything in the BBEG's lair locked? If you're using locked doors and keys (or their functional equivalents) as ways to gate the players through a location in a specific order then you have shit dungeon design. That's not the rogue's fault.

Why should a WIzard be allowed to just blow up every door with Magic Missile but a Rogue not allowed to lockpick all the doors?

>had a DM once who had every door in a building be locked
>forced to roll lockpicking every minute to get around
>ask him why every door inside the building is locked
>"the owner is paranoid"

Have the door be bolted on the other side as well as being locked.
Problem solved.

Is it really paranoia if what he's afraid of is happening, though?

this thread honestly reminds me of ivory tower game design. I have a feeling most of the people that have DMed in this thread would have no qualms with some sort of caster bypassing all of this with magic.

you can open masterlocks by looking at them wrong. they are fucking garbage and can absolutely by picked by raking their pins once.

Yes. Imagine your life with every door in your house constantly locked. That's not an inconvenience to be taken lightly.

If they have the ability to, yes.
However, I do wager that there would be more defending a compound than doors with locks on them.

>Should a rogue be able to bypass every single locked door in the BBEG's lair?

Yes. We're still struggling with creating "unpickable locks" today.

With modern metallurgy and a total lack of morals, however, you could definitely make a lock that just kills anyone who tries to pick it.

>electrified core requires a special insulated key
>poisoned needle stabs out of lock core when pins are engaged, requiring a weird-shaped key which puts the hand out of harm's way
>pressure plate which triggers flamethrowers if anyone stands in front of the door for more than 20 seconds (must include a "NO LOITERING" sign)

I'm an amature at picking locks, I work in a shop as a welder and used the equipment here to make myself a decent little set of picks and rakes. I can pick a masterlock in 15 seconds setting each pin individually and in less than 5 raking it. hell, you didn't even mention the easiest way to pick a lock is by ignoring the cylinder all together. by using a shim you can shove it down between the shackle and latch and pull the shackle free in less than a second. once you start picking, even as a hobby, you quickly realize most locks aren't hard security and more of a suggestion to "please keep out".

>add a magical lock that can't be picked.
I've never liked the 'magic must defeat magic' thing

By the end of your campaign, if the rogue is still alive, they should probably be able to pick the lock on the metaphysical door that separates two planes and make the wizard cry.

I actually do that. I keep all the doors in my house locked. Its not that much of an inconvenience, just becomes second nature to have keys on you at all times.

Thats why some doors are barred

There are two things lockpicking should do.

First, get a fuckton of loot. All the good shit should be in locked chests. The better the loot, the tougher the box.

Second, low security doors. The important doors like those to the treasury or throne room are going to have guards at them at all times but the storeroom under the imperial bed chambers? The castle larder? Any number of guest bedrooms or barracks? Free game for lockpicking.

You're having trouble with that lock, Rogue-boy? Why don't you let an adult handle this?

At that point you're best off just letting the barbarian or fighter try their hand at unlocking the door.

Bonus exp if they go "Here's Johnny!" when they break through.

Or the doors have deadbolts on the other side of the door, with latches or knobs for convenience. Easy to get out if you start inside, tough to get in if you are outside. You can still lockpick or smash the door

Locks are in an arms race to become increasingly more complex so that the difficulty outweighs the effort required to break. That's the reason you have massed produced locks - most people don't have the skills or time to break them. Places like banks etc employ multi-layered and complex security systems and procedures to help further this divide, and include some crazy protections to help resist thieves. Most of the time as-well, high profile thefts succeed because of the human element involved or something not planned for (like a group of pensioners drilling through half a metre of concrete, or people posing as diamond merchants and slowly but surely making their way to the vaults)

From the sounds of it, the issue is that you're treating lockpicking as kind of "assuming" everyone uses a generic type of lock on all doors. In a BBEG fortress I think that is the fantasy equivalent of making "man sized air vents" for people to walk through.

Though there's never going to be an unpickable lock / security system - you can make picking it so impractical that just "killing man with Key" is the more prudent solution. With magic involved you can have a game believable multi-layered security system that requires an initial few lock picking attempts of increasingly greater difficulty, then add barriers like force walls and even puzzle elements on top - which each require correct procedures to disarm, then add alarms, passwords and even the wizardry version of biometrics to it. Add in patrols and time constraints (why would a BBEG just wait for people to break in?) Then allow all that to be automatically passed when, you know, you have the keys.

>tfw I had a game where the warden got upset that the rouge was taking so long so he opened the door with the rouge's face and the the rogue called him a pussy ass bitch
Can confirm that it is effective

if the rogue can pick every lock and the entire party can keep up with them without being detected they deserve to bypass the dungeon.

>Add in patrols and time constraints
This. This is the reason modern dungeoncrawling can really suck: no time pressure.
Dungeoncrawls should be like a Payday mission (pic related).
>It's a matter of time before the alert is sounded (unless you're really good)
>Almost every barrier can be defeated with time and the right tool (drill, saw, picks, stolen codes, etc)
>You only have a finite supply of ammunition and other consumables (including HP)
>The enemy have effectively unlimited reinforcements, but you can break their immediate morale with bursts of violence
Wandering monster rolls, ten minute dungeon "turns," and logistics should be in play.
Sure, the rogue can pick every lock given long enough, but you'll never hold out the 9 hours he needs for this one. So you go to the next fastest plan and get out the adamantine chisels. Still going to take an hour, which is too long. So you go to the next one, and try magical acid paste. Now you just have to keep the monsters back for a half-hour.
Time to do some heavy lifting.

BBEG's can afford actually decent security in their citadel. the doors there should require a Knock spell.

You still want lockpicking to be useful, otherwise why would you ever invest in it.

• What if the magic lock works onlywith a specific magic key kept in the BBEG's room, which additionally doesn't look like a key at all?
• What if the magic lock can only be broken by greater dispell but will answer to a specific password pronounced in its presence?
• What if the magic lock has an imp possessing it, and can be bargained with or exorcised?
• What if the magic lock is a riddle that opens by pushing certain details in a certain order?
• What if the magic lock is triggered by a specific action that is unrelated to the door itself but there is a hint of it in the description of the place?
• What if the magic lock can be picked but triggers the alarm if not dispelled or switched off by certain means?

I've wanted to play / run a heist game for so long.

>End up picking a Masterlock he had laying around, maintaining eye contact, in three seconds flat

did you lick your lips during?

How could a GM plot around a rogue with pic related?

Anything super valuable wouldn't just be locked away.

Combination lock

Because casters are inherently more powerful than non casters at any given level

The GM gave it to them, so the GM should let them use it. You can make the downside that it's an artifact and thus people and things come around to try and claim it, or simply let the rogue get too greedy and rob the wrong person with it. Or both.

it's not necessary for a lock to be opened with a key. think of the doors to moria.

I don't know man, it took me 20 minutes to Jimmy open my Camry after I locked the keys inside.

>three seconds

Psh. I can do it in less than one.

>goes to use it the first time
>"alright, roll the skill check."
>"lol isn't it auto-pass?"
>"just roll it anyway"
>rolls a 1
>"it breaks into pieces and is now stuck in the lock, good job."

Doesn't work. The Skeleton Key is an artefact that can unlock anything. Full stop.

Including abstract things like one's potential.
Or it could just straight up vanish for literally no reason. Daedric artefacts have a tendency to do that.

>daedric artifact
>breaking outside of serious mojo

>"oh, and also Nocturnal shows up because you broke her shit. GG"

>daedric prince
>manifesting much when the dragonfires are lit

>Or it could just straight up vanish
That too, but my main point was that a GM shouldn't be arbitrarily limiting a player's ability to use something they gave them. If it was that big a problem it never should have been there for the player to get.

I've always wanted to pull layered door blockages on somebody

>You unlock the door
Alright, I open it
>It doesn't open. The knob turns but it doesn't budge
Fuck, I look underneath the door
>You see a chair propped againt the door, holding it closed
I use a sword to push it out of the way
>Alright, it falls
I open the door
>Not so fast

Before you give it to him make it clear it only has a set number of charges

"KRONK SMASH DOOR!"

And that's when I reveal what was on the other side of that door

Real talk bolt cutters take longer than one second, just because the bolt is small and the cutters are bulky.

>nearby statue of Nocturnal starts to glow
>"You broke my key? What the fuck, dude?"

The inside of the door is a chamber filled with a gas that combusts violently when exposed to air, and a large amount of explosive that's inert enough to not go off from regular door usage but is set off by the combusting gas.

There's nothing wrong with unpickable doors, but it shouldn't feel arbitrary; your players should know the very second you describe the door that "okay, this is a very important door that probably cannot be picked," not a case of "nice try, but that completely ordinary looking door is actually locked with magic!"

...You can pick a fucking Masterlock by hitting in the right place. Are you really this fucking stupid?

>that completely ordinary looking door is actually locked with magic
This is totally fine, if it makes sense within the scenario. If the arcane caster is any good they'll just dispel it anyway.