/STG/ Star Trek General

Why is it dirty grey?

That seems to be the Discovery Aesthetic. Could be that the fleet gets a new paint job/uniforms in the aftermath of the war, to end up looking closer to what you'd expect.

I just can't get enough of clean white hulls.

>Ship carrying Spock's father and adoptive sister meets the ship Spock serves on.
>!We're not currently planning on introducing Spock."
Why do they feel the need to lie like this?

It's a weird call because the Europa and a lot of the Binary Stars fleet have a clearly while hull livery.

Well, at least STD will be out of the way for a couple of years now. In which time CBS's streaming service will likely die on it's arse or get bought out.

"Because SPACE IS DARK. And in the GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE, THERE IS ONLY WAR!"

"Sir, I told you, we didn't get the rights to Warhammer 40k, Games Workshop was holding out for an exorbitant amount of money."

"LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

Tyler having fun gambling with the Klingons was nice, I'm pretty sure that was the only time we've seen him smiling and having a good time.

We could use more moments like that, and like Tilly hanging out on Qo'nos more. This episode was surprinsingly fun and funny.

So people will flood the internet later talking about how they were LITERALLY CRYING when there Spock showed up in LE EPIC TWIST

>sequel
You'd have to delete season 5 and return Tyr to being a character because his relationship with party paladin as the token neutral evil party member was actually the framing conflict of the entire story. Less Kevin Sorbo, more everyone else.

Also do more space religion stuff in the later parts of the show. It helds itself by the straps with scum using an ancient battleshipt for shadowrunning, but that shit was also really cool.

Issue is Kevin Sorbo will never agree to any of it because of him being a dumb fuck. This opens up the possibility of Rade being the protagonist though, which would be sort of awesome.

Holy shit, Enterprise looks so good compared to the Hero Ship. It's almost laughable how they fucked up Discovery that way.

Lesson number 1 kids, when you do a Scifi series of any kinda you want to your protagonist ship look good compared to the rest of ships in the show.

So, Pike will be in command of the Enterprise, right?

Yep. I'm sure the whole crew will got a """"soft visual reboot""""

Yes, they said as much in the episode.

They said Captain Pike was hailing, and Michael and Sarek looked at each other as if "Pike? Then Spock must be with him"

I would't be surprised (and in fact I'd be pleased) if season 2 began with the Discovery arriving on Vulcan and the crew commenting on the awesome adventure they just had with the Enterprise, and that's the end of that.

Reminder that during TOS, Spock says he hasn't talked to Sarek in 18 years

Considering Vulcans, they could be sitting in the same room and have that still be true.

I'll bet they'll throw in a few scenes with some of the minor crew characters from The Cage like "Number One" or Dr Boyce

>s2 opens with Sarek stealing a shuttle just to avoid Spock

I kind of liked Discovery for what it was. But I mostly agree with your opinion. Tilly and blonde-spor-man are the only traditional Star Trek characters, but I didn't mind the Star Trek universe in a more modern television narrative instead of just another adventure-a-week series.

That said, I'd love season two to move to a more traditional Star Trek plot, with spinoffs being relegated to chasing modern TV trends. Not gonna happen but whatever. I'll take more Discovery if they give me some fun characters to enjoy the ride with. What I REALLY want is better shots of the ships, class names, and more inspired ship combat scenes.
>the five Klingone ships moving away from earth looked dumb as fuck
>I kind of like the new B'rel and what I assume is the new D7 design but we never see it do anything
>ship of the dead cloaked and then didn't move

>Could be that the fleet gets a new paint job/uniforms in the aftermath of the war, to end up looking closer to what you'd expect.
While I wouldn't mind this, Discovery so far doesn't bother explaining the differences, or bending over backwards to explain why a budget 60s show looked like a budget 60s show, and I don't mind this. Enterprise made that mistake, and the further we get into the future the more we have to ask why TOS had tapes and hippie navy uniforms and bright lights for buttons. Lighter coats of paint is a pretty easy explanation, but I'd take it or leave it if the show started thinking about explaining why Roddenberry didn't write holoemitters into TOS.

Its dumb saucer aside, Discovery grew on me. I can see a class of ship with an ugly hull and flat design being a fitting science/support vessel in the TOS era, especially for the unlikely hero narrative. But yeah it's a meh hero design.

>That said, I'd love season two to move to a more traditional Star Trek plot, with spinoffs being relegated to chasing modern TV trends.
Mirror Georgiou space pirate spin-off when?

>Mirror Georgiou
Pls go and stay go

I'd welcome a season 3 or 4 Georgiou cameo before thinking about Mudd, the sociopath Star Fleet forgot after ten years.

Season 3 or 4? I hope STD doesn't last that long.

The way this world's been going it seems only fitting that STD will run and run whether we want it or not.

STDs going to last forever, sorry user.

I don't post here much any more so I might be missing a joke, but the op is a picture of Andromeda. Same writer and also a good show, but different universe.

Andromeda just tends to fall under the Star Trek umbrella like Galaxy Quest and Orville.

Okay that makes sense. I guess I always imagined Andromeda as 'darker' in my mind, never lumped it with the others.

But it's almost okay. It's got the grimdark apple store look that is required of it for a major company or "believe in it", now we just need them to hire a writer that knows what fun is, or isn't trying to get hired by HBO. There has to be someone out there that can do that.

...

Like Herpes?

For some reason I imagine the GW team in space marine armour barricaded in a boardroom with a pile of money in the middle and they all have their nerf guns trained on the door where CBS lawyers are desperately trying to negotiate.

Also reminder that in TOS Klingons looked identical to humans aside from hairstyles. Times change.

Except that we had Deep Space Nine establish that this ISN'T merely an artifact of the low budget 60s show, but that TOS Klingons really did look like humans. And then we had Enterprise explain why. For that matter DS9 also firmly established that, yes, TOS looked like it was the 60s even from a modern perspective.

So Discovery is retconning both Enterprise (fine) and "Trials and Tribble-ations' (not even remotely fine, it's one of the best Trek episodes). And worse, it can't even be said to have retconned things for any real point or purpose. I'd be fine with a changed look if there was a reason for it beyond "look at me! Look at how different I am! I'm not Star Trek, I'm cool!" But in fact, that's literally the only reason.

>A makeup effects detail that has been properly retconned is the same as a key detail about inter-character relationships

No offence to you but I hate this argument. When the Klingons were redesigned to the TNG versions it was a substantial upgrade to their previous versions. The STD changes did nothing to improve and in fact ruined Klingons for what might be their last change ever. Change isn't always good, especially when it didn't need changing.

So the design of the Enterprise absolutely confirms we are in a dumb alternate timeline right? As if the shitty version of the Federation Klingon war wasn't enough. I mean it isn't even a "modernized" take on the pre-refit Connie. It has the swept back nacelle pylons of the refit with dumb cut outs in them.

If I remember correctly, the makers said before the show came out that it's in the proper timeline that we all know and love and not the Kelvin timeline. So unless that changed it's still in the one we all know and love, unfortunately.

It doesn't confirm shit. STD is just as STD does.

Yeah Discovery's Klingons look like mongoloids who have a real bad case of rubber-mask syndrome. It is deep in to the uncanny valley. They also have a speech impediment due to the dental prosthetics.

Meanwhile the show has Kelpiens which are much better designed.

STD is confirmed by CBS to be prime timeline, retarded as that may be. Until they say something else about it, it's prime. Suffer as I have suffered, user.

They also said they cared about continuity. They're just liars.

At this point I'm fairly confident they only said that to try and sucker older fans who don't like JJTrek.

Just the way the Federation vs Klingon war happens goes completely against the way TOS portrayed Kirks interactions with Klingons. Kirk was usually engaging in a battle of wits vs rival Klingon captains where they were in a Cold War atmosphere. I can't see either Federation or Klingon captains acting that way if the Federation had almost been wiped out a few years earlier.

>Look at how different I am! I'm not Star Trek, I'm cool!" But in fact, that's literally the only reason.
I like Trials, and found it charming that both DS9 and Enterprise had characters comment on the 60s style. I liked TNG's holodeck not updating the 1701 at all, and the consoles being nonlabeled Christmas lights. But like said, the original Klingon change was tech. The DS9 reference from Worf was a throwaway joke in reference to tech, and the augment virus plot line was dumb as shit.

No one was going to make a "New" series with beepy boop lights, two-beep wheelchairs, mental disorder cure-alls, or a set that looked like cardboard now that we have an updated scientific understanding and higher budget. Discovery looking like it has more production value than a college weekend project is a good thing. Its specific design choices is... a different story, but Star Trek is a show about an idealized future, and that future has changed since the 1960s. Yeah it makes plot holes, but I prefer plot holes due to real world tech/culture rather than than anything else. Trials and Tribble-ations is fun. It was always meant to be self congratulatory and self referential fun with no greater impact on lore or story aside from how much it made you smile and remember how much the rest of Star Trek made you smile.

But yeah they could have done better making things look like a high budget version of the original aesthetic instead of everything being gunmetal blue.

I don't think most people would have minded a "reimagining" of the TOS designs. But Discovery added a bunch of shit that was never even in TOS and which wasn't necessary for the plot. The hologram tech for instance. Or the stupid fucking fungus drive. The jumpsuits instead of the classic style uniforms (which JJTrek updated great). And Klingons which just look like retarded generic rubber-faced aliens of the week with no iconic features.

Discovery has made me appreciate JJTrek more. Abrams at least respected the fucking fans enough to know they wouldn't buy all the redesigns he wanted to do actually fit the original timeline and so made it an alternate timeline.

It's the Enterprise 90% of the way to refit configuration. You're not going to outdo the ship that defined the setting.

>and the augment virus plot line was dumb as shit

I won't deny this, but that doesn't change that it's still canon.

>Discovery looking like it has more production value than a college weekend project is a good thing

Yes, but like you said, its specific design choices are what causes problems. JJTrek managed to update the TOS uniforms and make them look decent; and the starship and interior designs could still have stuck closer to the TOS look even if they insisted on changing the design. I'm fine with ditching design choices that don't make sense - "Balance of Terror" originally established that viewscreen technology didn't exist in the Earth-Romulan War, for example, but I don't think anyone cried foul when Enterprise had a viewscreen - but it still could have kept a 60s aesthetic, or at least something that doesn't seem so wildly clashing.

Heck, draw on some of the set designs for the Red October, or even some actual 50s or 60s era warships.

I wish I hadn't noticed the stupid hole in the pylons on the Enterprise.

I was genuinely ok with the change to the swept back look, it's a visual retcon I'd be ok with because it fixes the one notable visual sticking point of the design (straight pylons compared to the swept neck) that even the original designer went and updated for the Phase II refit, leading to one of the genuinely nicest, most distinctive looking starships in all of fiction in the TMP Enterprise.

But they put a fucking hole in it because they couldn't not cock up something so fucking simple.

>"Balance of Terror" originally established that viewscreen technology didn't exist in the Earth-Romulan War, for example

Wait... wut?

Oh for the love of - I didn't notice that either, user, but now I can't unsee it! Fuck you!

>"Balance of Terror" originally established that viewscreen technology didn't exist in the Earth-Romulan War
Incorrect. It simply said there were no visual communications between humans and Romulans.

>As you may recall from your histories, this conflict was fought, by our standards today, with primitive atomic weapons and in primitive space vessels which allowed no quarter, no captives. Nor was there even ship-to-ship visual communication. Therefore, no human, Romulan, or ally has ever seen the other.

Technically I suppose it's up in the air as to whether he's saying there was no viewscreens, or simply that visual communication didn't take place, but given that in the previous sentence he's highlighting the primitive technology of the conflict I've always assumed that him highlighting the lack of visual communication was because of the limitations of available technology.

This is also upheld in ENT when the Romulans only use audio comms with the Enterprise.

Come to think of it, the first JJtrek movie just throws Romulans in there and neither Spock nor any other Vulcans even react, do they?

>Abrams at least respected the fucking fans
I stopped reading there.

>The DS9 reference from Worf was a throwaway joke in reference to tech, and the augment virus plot line was dumb as shit.
This.

>Discovery looking like it has more production value than a college weekend project is a good thing. Its specific design choices is... a different story
Agreed.

>a different story, but Star Trek is a show about an idealized future, and that future has changed since the 1960s.
Maybe, but don't set your story in such close proximity to something else if you don't want people to fixate on how different your style is. And you can update shit while retaining a similar style.

Shit, I don't remember. There were so many plot holes in that movie that you had to put them inside each other to make space for other stuff.

I think the SFM takes the angle that there's no regular ship-to-ship visual over interstellar distances at the least because fuck all ships carry subspace radios due to the insane size requirement of the tech at that time. Uses message torpedoes for anything long range. I can see why they wouldn't want to do that when making ENT though. You gain a lot from having people be able to see who they're talking to in a tv format.

Just completely ignoring visual communications also works. Fits with the Romulan's desire for secrecy/intimidation.

When the Kelvin encounters them, I don't think they identify their race, so the Kelvin captain just knows that they're dealing with some race that looks sort of like Vulcans (which doesn't mean anything in and of itself, there are independently evolved humans all over the place in the Galaxy and TNG even established independently evolved Vulcans).

By the time the bulk of Trek 2009 takes place, there's been 25 years worth of timeline changes from the Kelvin incident, so it's entirely possible that there's already been contact with the Romulans and the Romulans' secret ancestry has already been exposed.

Actually, strike that, it's even simpler than that. The Kelvin obviously wouldn't recognize the Narada, but when Nero and the others aboard communicated with the Kelvin they would have been speaking Romulan to them, which the Universal Translator would render into English (Nero was not one for subtlety and was a space trucker, so it's doubtful he knows any other languages and even if he did he wouldn't have any interest in the usual Romulan secrecy).

When the shuttles from the Kelvin made their escape they would have carried a Black Box or other records of the contact with the Narada, which would obviously include the fact that Nero and crew were speaking Romulan even if it was translated. Once Starfleet realizes this they probably flipped their shit and headed straight towards the Neutral Zone with at least a small task force and forced communication with the Romulans, demanding an explanation, and from there the secret got out. Even if they didn't, the non-Vulcans among Starfleet are going to start asking why these Vulcan-looking motherfuckers are speaking Romulan, and the Vulcans would probably have to explain things - and even the Vulcans who don't know for sure might start putting the pieces together that the Romulans are likely a pre-Surakian Vulcan offshoot.

Point being that in 25 years since the Kelvin incident, there's plenty of time for the Federation to know that Romulans are a Vulcan offshoot.

Plus word of Simon Pegg as of whenever he took over for Beyond is that the Kelvin incident caused quantum resonances in the timeline that altered history in the past, explaining things like the entire TOS bridge crew being on the Enterprise when Kirk and McCoy are still at the Academy, even though Prime Chekov would've been 13 at the time.

Looks like T6 Andorians are back on the menu, boys
>arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10804774-the-allied-pilot-escort-mega-bundle!

Isn't Andromeda basically Greek Myths in Space?

I seem to recall the bad/good guys were centaurs. Big blue ones?

...

>allied ships
ugh

Kevin Sorbo in Space ... so yeah pretty much.

Excellent

I quite like the Vandros and Chimesh.

The Klingons were redesigned for TMP, in 1978. In fact, given that it was just a reskin of the aborted Phase 2 project, they were probably redesigned for Phase 2.

Literally the first time they appeared in anything after the show was cancelled, they looked completely different - because there was finally a budget for prostheses, because prosthetics had increased in sophistication and decreased in cost. Same deal with the tech to film starships - that got much cheaper after ILM came along, and because of ILM's work all kinds of other things (like digital editing, in the mid-1980s) also freed up elements of time and budget that could be better spent elsewhere.

By the mid 1990s it still wasn't feasible to have a starship rendered in CGI on a movie screen look good, so First Contact was a physical model (or a series of them), but unlike the former Enterprise, the E-E was much more detailed even than the largest E-D model, especially in terms of hull definition. Later in the decade it became feasible to recreate low-resolution space battles for TV (which is why the end of DS9 has so many more starships than the First Contact battle) purely because of the increase in processing power and consequent decrease in cost. By the end of Voyager, everything was CGI; with Enterprise, everything was CGI *and* produced in readiness for HD screens, which hadn't been the case with DS9 or Voyager.

The point being that the doing away with the old Klingon/Federation aesthetic is as much a result of changes in techniques and being able to get closer to the design dream as it is to do with trying to draw a distinctive line in the sand.

For example, the Klingons in STD look much closer to the JJ Klingons - which you would expect as that's how Klingons are perceived by non-fanatics right now - but if you put them in a bad wig and cardboard armor and make them carry a giant plastic can opener while they sing shitty atonal songs, there's little difference.

tl;dr It's super weird to expect Klingons to be a monoculture not only across their interstellar empire, but across several centuries as well.

However the STD klingon design is still bad in that it obviously, severely inhibits the actor's ability to emote and express in ways we've seen better designed prosthetics allow for even more than a decade ago.

And they really don't look that much like the JJ film Klingons.

>closer to the design dream

I find it likely that most, if not all, of the designers of the original Klingon costumes and vessels are dead or at least 50 or so years older and not likely to remember whatever their original specific design goal was, so I'm not sure if you can take the tack that we're just getting closer to whatever was "originally intended".

As well, I'd be perfectly happy to accept that the update of Klingons from their TOS versions was simply because of the increased budget and sophistication, if not for the fact that we've had two separate Trek series - DS9 and Enterprise - specifically highlight the difference in appearance. Even if "Trials and Tribble-ations" was intended as a throwaway joke, the Augment Virus arc certainly wasn't.

Likewise TNG, DS9, and Enterprise all firmly established what the 23rd century Starfleet aesthetic is supposed to look like. So you can't simply say "increased budget and sophistication" at this point - STD represents a conscious, deliberate effort to move away from the established Star Trek aesthetic, not simply a desire to take advantage of the greater budget and technical ability.

I don't think anyone is going to seriously argue that there should be *no* changes. Rather, the point is that STD should have used the TOS aesthetic as an obvious touchstone. When I look at STD, I should be thinking "So, this is what TOS would have looked like if they'd had an actual budget", not "YO LISTEN UP, HERE'S A STORY ABOUT A LITTLE GUY THAT LIVES IN A BLUE WORLD".

For that matter, by the way, there's also something to be said for embracing the kitsche, retro look. No one ever raised any complaints about the JJTrek uniforms, and while the JJEnterprise has some design flaws to it it's clearly trying to evoke a retro-1960s-era pulp science fiction, rockets and glass helmets look to it.

Final thoughts on this: Into Darkness is arguably the worst Trek movie, but listen to this behind-the-scenes commentary on the Qo'noS scene:

youtube.com/watch?v=GnQ6gk8t4ic

>"We are inhereiting Star Trek, y'know, if we don't embrace and use the elements that are familiar to the world of Trek, what are we doing? We should do something else and call it something else."

Even fucking JJ Abrams got it. Why can't Discovery?

>Well, at least STD will be out of the way for a couple of years now. In which time CBS's streaming service will likely die on it's arse or get bought out.

Even if CBS All Access goes nowhere, keep in mind that Netflix was the one paid for the entirety of Discovery's development. If CBS both got rid of their streaming service and for some reason decided not to transition Discovery to a network show, then it would almost assuredly move to being a Netflix show instead.

The pylons aren't the same as on the refit. It seems like the point behind the negative space is so it has the much better swept look while still being able to just remove the rear portion of the pylon and get what is basically the TOS Enterprise, which is presumably exactly what happened in-universe.

>keep in mind that Netflix was the one paid for the entirety of Discovery's development.

Not really. Netflix bought the international distribution rights for an amount which equaled what CBS intended to spend making the show. However, the show had major cost overruns and CBS ended up spending a good amount more than what Netflix paid for distribution rights.

Even if you removed the portion of the pylon behind the hole, it's still swept angle and not the placement of the original strut.

Really is just a pointless hole though.

Sure, but prior to going over budget CBS said "Hey, how would you like to pay the entire cost of developing this show for our benefit?" and Netflix found that perfectly agreeable despite not being able to distribute the series in its home country. And it would appear the show has done quite well, so even if CBS' streaming service peters out Discovery will end up somewhere.

The rear portion is swept, but the leading edge is the same as on the TOS version. If you removed the rear portion and shaved down the taper it would be basically the same.

Maybe they'll get everything ready for TOS in one fell swoop by introducing a new, conveniently off-white armor material that goes over the grey shit we've seen so far and is strong enough to eliminate the need for redundant struts but too hard to make in any shape except clean curves or straight lines, forcing Starfleet to retire or refit all the retarded over-detailed Mass Effect Pancakes in STD in time for "The Cage"
>A man can dream...

Who is space suit dave?

They'd also have to defeat whatever intergalactic foe is causing the entire vacuum of space to be filled with that weird multicolored gas that ruins the show's lighting.

>The rear portion is swept, but the leading edge is the same as on the TOS version. If you removed the rear portion and shaved down the taper it would be basically the same.

Nope. Image related.

Jesus, why is it so blue?

Haven't seen the show, but looks like in the gif they're coming out of a nebula or something.

A Veeky Forums character we made some time ago.

He is a paranoid and quite sad excuse of a man that went nuts when his ship got boarded by pirates and he got shot.

Since then he has hidden in the maintenance tubes (innatubes) of the ship, built himself a secure bunker (Fort Intersection), modified a space suit with a life signs blocker and transport inhibitor and resisted all efforts to be removed from either the suit or the tubes. He also deleted all records of himself. All anyone knows about him now is Human, Male and Dave.

He is paranoid and does not like trespassers. He has constructed a crossbow and set a lot of traps. He is harmless if you let him know you are there, just don't make sudden movements.

That's just what Discovery looks like. People bitch about the designs a lot, but the designs in the show aren't bad (.) The problem is the lighting, for some reason every exterior shot is treated like it's in a nebula because black star backgrounds aren't "space" enough.

>When I look at STD, I should be thinking "So, this is what TOS would have looked like if they'd had an actual budget",

You're looking at a show with a genuinely alien-looking alien with functional (albeit CGI) prosthetics as first officer and you're not thinking "so this is what TOS would have looked like with a budget"?

I get it. Klingons were a bad decision made worse by 1978's drastic redesign. They were a good proxy for the USSR in stories that dealt with the themes of competing superpowers, so it was necessary to use a lot of them, which meant no money for complex prosthetics; but unlike those other proxies, the Romulans, Klingons actually took off - they're synonymous with Star Trek in a way that no other alien race, except perhaps Vulcans, are. For which the hardcore fans, ultimately, are to blame - they always wanted more Klingons, to the point they even managed to finance the development of a constructed language from the gobbledygook James Doohan came up with.

So it's unreasonable to expect Klingons (or die hard fans) to go away; but at the same time, it's unreasonable to expect them to always look like they've just strolled out of Quark's, singing like a drunken fraternity. These were recognizably Klingons, shouting and posturing and fighting constantly, with ridged foreheads and alien-looking attack ships - could you say the same for the Worf-style Klingons if you'd only seen TOS and never saw their ships compared, or them named on-screen? I'm not sure I could.

As far as ship designs go, I'll be honest: one of the things I really liked about Voyager (and DS9) toward the end was that it showcased a number of starship classes that weren't seen anywhere else - the Prometheus, the Nova, even the Raven - and fleshed out a Starfleet that, after several hundred years of continuous operation, appeared to still be relying on vintage Mirandas. STD continues that, and I like that about it.

>but the designs in the show aren't bad

I vehemently disagree on that point, especially for the example of the Discovery itself.

The lighting, fistfuls of blur and occasional lensflare just add to the visual clusterfuck aspect.

Nacelles still blow chunks: everything up to and including the Sovereign class used a bunch of the same warp coil in each nacelle, they should have a consistent cross-section instead of looking like toothpicks...

>visual clusterfuck

The set. I mean, the set. I can't connect the bridge of Discovery to the bridge of the TOS Enterprise, I can't see a clear design lineage or inspiration beyond the captain's chair.

For the sake of comparison - when making the 2014 Godzilla movie and designing Godzilla, the designers said that their goal was to make it seem like the original 1954 Godzilla suit was someone had seen real-life Godzilla, rushed home to Japan, and then tried his best to make as accurate a reconstruction of what he'd seen as possible given the technology and budget and the need to make it by sticking a guy in a suit. As a result, even though the 2014 Godzilla is clearly different in appearance, he's also instantly recognizable as Godzilla, and shares an obvious design lineage with him.

(And rather notably, even though they had a Hell of a bigger budget than the 1954 movie and even though it makes no sense for something that big, the 2014 Godzilla was still designed to look like it could conceivably be a man in a suit)

I don't see the same design lineage in STD. The bridge of the Discovery looks nothing like the bridge of the Enterprise and, more to the point, doesn't look like it could ever have been the thing that inspired the bridge of the Enterprise. Save for the captain's chair, it looks like it comes from a totally different universe - and the same holds true for the rest of the ship (compare the Discovery's medbay to the Enterprise's, for example).

> it's unreasonable to expect them to always look like they've just strolled out of Quark's

Is it unreasonable to expect Discovery to follow on the continuity established by Enterprise when CBS swore up and down that Discovery was set in the same universe?

>if you'd only seen TOS and never saw their ships compared

But the thing is, I have. CBS is the one claiming that this is all set in the same timeline established by TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT, which creates - demands, even - some clear design continuity.