Excluding humans and their creations, what would be the highest level creature in the real world?

Nigga nat geo and the nature channel create entire seasons of shows dedicated to the deadliest animals.

But to contribute, I would say any large jungle cat aka leopard or tiger.

Large cats are the apex predators in whatever biome they inhabit, this is true. They’re the ultimate design for land hunters, basically sharks with legs and a brain.

How much poison damage per round would that be?

Chimps. Strong enough to rip your limb out of it's socket, smart enough for simple planning, attack in groups and agile enough to ambush you without much issue.

Oh and hostile enough to kill you for so much as looking at it wrong.

Hippo and Elephant are probably up there - the hippo is very well protected, but elephants are much bigger - the largest hippos are at a medium size for an elephant. For what it's worth elephants have been known to rape, literally rape, rhinos, so they don't get a say i.imgur.com/hywGPt9.gifv

Predator-wise, big cats are nasty, but bears are much tougher. A few western shows tried to have bears and lions (or mountain lions at the very least) fight, it was always a cakewalk for the bear.

Large crocodilians, Salties and Nile Crocs, are very good contenders as well - the latter (who are smaller than Salties) occasionally face off juvenile hippos and come out the victor. They're also much older animal families than others on the list, and have much larger prehistoric relatives.

In the sea, Sperm Whales are simply the biggest toothed predators on the planet (also they have a sonic blaster in their big oversized heads), while Orca are more generally aggressive, and probably smarter - they also outsize even the largest toothed sharks, though those, like crocs, have been around for much longer (and have bigger prehistoric relatives).

tree fiddy

>hippo
>elephant
>blue whale
>sperm whale

The siberian tiger is probably the most dangerous animal on land, Orcas in the sea.

Tigers regularly prey on bears by ambushing them from above, they're a sizeable part of their diet.

Tigers aren't preying on big bears, though. Kodiaks can wreck a big cat.

Cougars aren't in many reaches of their habitats, but then they're not pantherinae anyway, so perhaps they don't count

All.

They have been documented to hunt brown bears when the picking is slim, usually by ambush and breaking the neck before a fight can happen. The bear does win sometimes though when the tiger messes up.

Polar Bears and Gorillas are up there.

Considering that speed/initiative/agility/dexterity/whatever is often the god stat in RPGs I'm going to go with the Peregrine Falcon.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Asian bears - Siberian tiger vs brown bear is usually about 50/50, most of the bears Bengal and Siberian Tigers eat are sloth bears and Asiatic Black Bears, which are both smaller than the cats.

But still, that's a good case for Big Cats joining the ranks of high-level beasties, just not as nasty as the Big Bears

>CE
>has been observed flinging seals around with their tails in the wild before eating them
They don't have killer in their name for nothing.

Either Canadian Geese or Dropbears.

She killed billions.

to hatch trillions

Young or Himalayan brown bears, maybe. But definitely not fully grown brown bears. There's no way they could break a bear's neck when they're only half a bear's weight.

Fuck you and fuck that joke.

Cheetahs seem like little bitches to me

Gorilla on the land, orca on the sea.

Bearfags don't realize this. They always set up the fight in a way which is favorable to bears (I.E a direct 1v1 confrontation). In the wild the cat would just surprise the bear and break its neck. Like they do with everything.

Got to remember big cats have insane muscle strength, a leopard can haul over it's weight up a tree in one burst of speed. Tigers also prey on water buffalo which can be even bigger than brown bears.

But they're so cute.
youtube.com/watch?v=NBfi8OEz0rA

standing on the beach and u see (level ?? corpse)
like, imagine how much scarier the ocean would be if we were cavemen

>There's no way they could break a bear's neck when they're only half a bear's weight.

What the fuck is this logic then? You don't need a 300 kilo object to break the average americans neck. Necks are usually quite weak with all species.

So do bears. They can kill and carry things like moose for miles. Plus, they've been known to lift heavy logs, rocks, and even take dumpsters like they're nothing. If a tiger was as big as a brown bear, they'd likely be much more powerful, but bears have the advantage of size.

Sorry, you want to talk about logic and then compared a human neck to a bear's neck? Have you ever seen a bear?

Bears are not ambush predators, and they are not stealthy. A bear's not going to get the drop on a tiger, whereas tigers have been documented literally dropping down on brown bears from trees and killing them.

No one says they're getting the drop on a tiger. I'm saying it doesn't matter if a tiger manages to avoid a bear's incredibly sensitive nose and ambush it, it's not going to kill a fully grown brown bear.

>So do bears. They can kill and carry things like moose for miles.
But again: the problem with bears is that they're not apex hunters. They're omnivores who sit around eating berries most of the time. A big cat would suprise the bear, and kill it by breaking it's neck. Small housecats kill rabbits and large birds like owls via this technicue, even if they're smaller than the prey.

>Sorry, you want to talk about logic and then compared a human neck to a bear's neck? Have you ever seen a bear?
You missed the point. It's an example that when talking about bears of course needs to be adjusted. Humans neck can be broken with something that isn't as big as the human. And the same works with bears. Your argument, "the cat is smaller than the bear, ergo it can't break its neck" is ludicrous.

this

basically combine the size and strength of a whale with the intelligence and social coordination of an ape

>avoid a bear's incredibly sensitive nose and ambush it
Cats specifically confuse their prey by spreading their own scent all around the place. The bear can smell the cat, but can't pinpoint the location. Again: cat's consistently and always hunt bigger prey than they are which is why they are so good at surprise attacks that are extremely lethal. The same would apply to bears.

>But again: the problem with bears is that they're not apex hunters.

It doesn't matter. A hippo isn't an apex hunter either, but it can wreck pretty much every apex hunter out there.

>A big cat would suprise the bear, and kill it by breaking it's neck

Unless it's a small bear, no it wouldn't.

>Small housecats kill rabbits and large birds like owls via this technicue, even if they're smaller than the prey.

Neither are bears.

>And the same works with bears.

No, it doesn't. A bear's neck is surrounded by thick muscle, skin, and fur. Comparing it to a human is retarded. A tiger cannot break a fully grown brown bear's neck.

Let me get some generic HD levels for these.
>Untrained/weak human is 1HD along with dogs, wolves, etc.
>Strong human, orcs, lesser soldiers, panthers and small crocodiles are like 2 HD
>Horses, big crocs and komodo dragons are 3 HD?

Where does a whale, hippo, elephant, or big ass orca fit?

They kind of are. In the wild they're every other big cat's bitch, and have much smaller prey than other cats - they have to eat quick, as they can't defend from lions or hide food away like leopards.
In captivity they have issues as well - some breeding programs give their cheetah cubs support dogs to grow up with to help them not have ridiculous anxiety and nervousness (and thus be confident enough to breed when they're older). Also makes for some cute pictures.

If humanity dedicacted itself to wiping out the mosquito completely, as in extinct, we would destroy ourselves and the low buzzing of the master bug's wings would be their funeral song. Humanity is helpless in the face of the Big Bug Sucker, or BBS as I call it.

Cheetahs have zero confirmed human kills, and their DNA shows they almost went extinct twice already.

>not confident enough to breed when they're older

Cheetahs confirmed for ultimate beta cats

>Cats specifically confuse their prey by spreading their own scent all around the place. The bear can smell the cat, but can't pinpoint the location.

So now it's a scenario where a bear that's big enough to not care about walking into a tiger's territory is against a tiger. Clearly, the bear wins.

> Again: cat's consistently and always hunt bigger prey than they are which is why they are so good at surprise attacks that are extremely lethal.

Lethal to prey their own size. Tigers do not take on adult male brown bears because they're too big. They do take on juveniles, females, and smaller bear species and win more often than not. They even attack them during hibernation and apparently half of all tiger attacks on bears occur then. But there isn't a single case of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear even when ambushed in hibernation.

Even fully grown brown bears have been shown to change their path and go the other way when they come across a tiger's scent.

Which is why I'm saying a bear that doesn't is clearly going to be a big fucking bear that doesn't give two shits.

Great White Shark

Pretty much, but it sets them up for getting a cool doggo buddy/wingman who will teach them to be cool, relaxed and have fun, allowing them to get the girl (who, as it turns out, was just as shy and neurotic as he was, and may well have had a girldog BFF helping her the same way)

It's an animal buddy story that actually happens IRL for conservation reasons, what's not to like.

Oh, and one of the main reasons cheetahs' often need a support pupper in the first place is because they're rejected by the mother, so it's more the cheetah gets adopted by the doggo as a little brother.

Just to be clear: Extinct animals are cheating, right?

>Lethal to prey their own size.
Where do you get this from? Cats constantly hunt and kill things bigger than them. All around the globe. Also size doesn't make you immune to precise and lethal attacks. A bear would be dead if a big cat got a drop on it. In a direct 1v1 fight the bear would probably win and then die from wounds.

>Talk about big cats
>No mention of my boy Jaguar
Motherfuckers it is optimized. OPTIMIZED.

I have a house cat that was a huge easily frightened spaz until we got a dog. Now he acts like hot shit.

a T-rex nowadays would be comparable to a fucking Tarrasque .
Very few modern day animals could even hurt the fuckers.

The loot isn't as scary though.

>hey even attack them during hibernation and apparently half of all tiger attacks on bears occur then. But there isn't a single case of a tiger killing an adult male brown bear even when ambushed in hibernation.

This is a misinformation that comes from a single, quite flawed, source. In reality:
"Early in May, 1951 on the bank of Tatibe River(Iman tributary), a bear was found(body lengh 158 cm, weight 170kg), which had obviously been mauled by tigress" from: Mammals of the Soviet Union By Vladimir Georgievich Geptner, A. A. Nasimovich, Andreĭ Grigorʹevich.

>Where do you get this from? Cats constantly hunt and kill things bigger than them.

I'm talking in regards to brown bears. They don't take on bears bigger than themselves (for obvious reasons).

>Also size doesn't make you immune to precise and lethal attacks.

No, but it sure as hell helps, otherwise snow leopards would be taking on bears and winning.

>A bear would be dead if a big cat got a drop on it.

Nope. Tigers only manage to finish around 1/10 attacks on bears, and bears aren't getting away just by running since they can't outrun a tiger. So they can clearly fight them off.

>In a direct 1v1 fight the bear would probably win and then die from wounds.

Nope. Multiple instances of bears surviving tiger attacks, even when ambushed while hibernating.

Here are some links.

sheppardsoftware.com/content/animals/animals/mammals/brownbear.htm
ofcats.com/2008/05/siberian-tiger.html

Waterbears. See, many other creatures mentioned in here are likely more fearsome, none however, are more durable.
It has been speculated that the only way to actually kill off waterbears is via a massive event that boils all of the water on the planet at once, leaving the Water Bears to starve to death scant weeks later.

They say you can smell him before you see him.

Avoiding potential death and avoiding potential injury are two very different things in the natural world, user.

>Waterbears. See, many other creatures mentioned in here are likely more fearsome, none however, are more durable.
Doesn't really matter if they can't do anything with that durability.

A tiger killing a small bear. What's your point?

What about something more fair from the same environment, like a giant scissor-headed flying murder giraffe?

>Young or Himalayan brown bears, maybe. But definitely not fully grown brown bears. There's no way they could break a bear's neck when they're only half a bear's weight.
An average fully grown male brown bear appears to weight a little over 200 kg, whereas a fully grown siberian tiger can weight over 300 kg. At least according to wikipedia.

The emu.

One pod in Australia set up a cooperative hunting partnerships with (human) whalers in a small town. When whales migrated through the area, the orcas would begin herding them into the town's bay, while one or more orcas would head to the dock to get the attention of the humans and let them know whales were coming in, and the orcas and the humans would work together to kill the whales. At the end of the hunt, the humans allowed the orcas to eat the lips and tongues of their catch, which the humans had no use for, with the orcas leaving the blubber and baleen, which the humans wanted.

And the general assholery of an ape, as well.
They throw seals around with their tails for fun before they kill them. They take turns lying on top of whales, rotating which orcas can breathe, until the whale drowns.

Ain't that the truth. Going off Sue's remains, T Rex at least grew to 12m long, almost 4m tall at the hips, and a weight of between 10 and 14 metric tons.

Compare that to a tiger at about only about 0.4 metric tons max healthy weight, or a kodiak bear at 0.7 metric tons.

Long story short, a T Rex might outweigh a very large kodiak bear by a factor of 20.

Lions are not large enough to take down giraffes on their own. But, lions in some parts of Africa have figured out that if you scare the giraffes so that they run into a road with heavy traffic, the cars will kill the giraffe for you and you can get a lot of tasty dinner rather easily. This is causing serious traffic problems in some areas.

"Durable", except they are eaten constantly by everything because they are slow, blind, and weak. Literally survives everything except the most likely damage type. By your logic a hamster with elemental immunity is stronger than anything else.

That figure is an average that includes the smallest subspecies. Both Kamchatka and Ussuri (subspecies that interact with tigers) weigh around 600kg.

It's a solid 3rd place size-wise, and has an insanely strong bite even for a big cat.
A fair contender to be sure.

Yeah, though they might be worth it for some consideration purposes. Lack of concrete knowledge is an issue though - we might argue about tigers and bears, but at least we have the evidence on both sides to back it up.

Seeing as quite a few of the large predator dinos outweighed elephants, terrestrially prehistoric > current animals by a long way.

Even excluding dinosaurs, there's a reason the "dire" template comes from prehistoric (well, just on the edge of being so) direwolves (not that they were all that much bigger, but they had bigger teeth)

Some pigs have been taught to play video games.

Add ravens, crows and magpies (the genus Corvida) to the mix - the first non-mammals confirmed to have this ability, along with rudimentary skills at using tools and cooperating to solve puzzles. A group of crows in Tokyo have figured out how to use cars to crack open nuts that they cannot open on their own. They drop the nuts into the crosswalks, wait for the cars to drive over them, then fly down and eat the interior when the traffic stops. Now, add to this that they are using the traffic lights to time this operation.

Another group of crows in Kagoshima, Japan, have become frighteningly good at outsmarting the Crow Patrol put together specifically to get rid of them.

They're also capable of vividly remembering a person or location that's caused trouble. If a member of the murder is killed, they're not coming back any time soon, and in fact reroute their migratory pattern to avoid landing in that area. If they've been harassed by someone, they may start fighting back, often singling that person out when given the chance. They can even teach other crows what that person looks like.

New Caledonian crows are so smart that one actually figured out from a failed attempt by another crow how to make a functional tool, without the scientists being aware that New Caledonian crows even knew how to make tools, much less adapt them.
Keas are pretty bloody bright as well, being parrots. In fact as a whole, parrots and corvids are the brightest bird groups.

And swallows! Birds nesting near the entry of a Home Depot have figured out how to work the motion detectors to open the doors. They've even figured out that a person is responsible for the doors not working (being locked) and will harass that person until he unlocks the doors. Just. That. Person.

On land it's clearly elephants, there isn't a single other animal that an elephant couldn't kill in a straight fight.

You bitches are all missing the point if you’re only asking what’s the highest level fighter. To break it down, highest level

FIGHTER = Panthera tigris altaica
WIZARD = Octopus briareus
CLERIC = Tenodera sinensis
PALADIN = Gorilla beringe
THIEF = Corvus corax
BARD = Delphinus capensis
ELF = Pavo cristatus
DORF = Oreamnos americanus
ASSASSIN = Echis carinatus
NECROMANCER = Glyptapanteles

There were a pair of tigers raised in captivity and being prepared for a release into the wild. On their first day out hunting, one went straight for a herd of deer, completely failing to be stealthy. The other wandered off to who knows where. The conservationists thought they had wasted all that effort until the noisy one drove the entire herd into the ambush set up by the one they thought had gotten lost. Tigers cooperating like that had never been seen before.

I don't get why people are arguing bears v tigers when OP already posted Hippo. You guys are trying to one up each other but haven't even beaten hippo!

For argument's sake, I'll say African Elephant. Not scary because they're not dicks, but they're huge and can (and will) stomp most things to death. And that's even counting the tusks.

Really, if you found yourself in Late Cretaceous Montana you would likely not even be lucky enough to have the honor of being killed by an adult Tyrannosaurus. Even the lower-level predators far surpassed anything around today. Dakotaraptor outweighed a grizzly bear.

Crocodiles show a surprising amount of intelligence. They are known to be able to memorize where the best places to ambush prey are, some species have learned to steal fish from the nets of fishing boats, and it's estimated that they may be about as smart as some rodents (Which, considering how clever mice and rats can be, is pretty impressive).

It was also found that Nile Crocodiles hunt in packs, or more accurately they are perfectly willing to use team work. Sometimes one crocodile will hold a large prey animal and let the others (who take turns and equal portions) tear at it). They also herd prey or surround them, and at times large groups will gather to block off rivers and feast on the trapped fish.

Trained crocodiles can learn tricks like "stay" or "roll over".

At least two species (The Mugger Crocodile of India and the American Alligator) have some grasp of tool usage. Scientists have observed them consistently gathering sticks during nesting season, and carefully balancing them across their snouts as they lay in wait beneath the nests of Herons and Egrets. This allows them to bait unsuspecting birds straight onto their snouts, for an easy kill.

On a similar note, Komodo Dragons are intelligent, having a natural tendency to play, know how to take advantage of tourists and can recognize names given to them and different voices, as well. In captivity, they seem to display individual personalities. This applies to all monitor lizards, in fact, and they are considered the smartest among lizard groups and similar to wolves in intelligence. They are more than capable of strategizing when hunting and often do so.

>200-250 kg
>10-11m tall
An unarmed strongman could take one down if he managed not to get his face eaten.
And considering the proportions, much of the weight would be on it's head.
Now, the flying part is really fucking concerning. I didn't even know something so big and heavy could fly, but it can't fly that well.
One wouldn't be a threat even to primitive humans, but if these fuckers decide to come from the skies en masse, yeah then anyone without a fucking machinegun is getting murdered.

Similarly, why are all the arguments using cute little brown bear? Polar bears are enormous, violent af and don't give no fucks.

I was listening to... the wrong song when I clicked that link.

How well do they do in online matches?

>thief is a fucking primarch
nice balancing faggot

Saltwater crocodiles can also reach enormous sizes and weights. The largest examples could probably kill a polar bear if it was by the water by dragging it in and drowning it.

>Lolong (died 10 February 2013) was the largest crocodile in captivity. He was a saltwater crocodile (Crocodylus porosus) measured at 6.17 m (20 ft 3 in), and weighed 1,075 kg (2,370 lb), making him one of the largest crocodiles ever measured from snout-to-tail.

This was a still living dinosaur desu senpai

>Long story short, a T Rex might outweigh a very large kodiak bear by a factor of 20.

If we're talking about elephants and hippos we should probably give herbivores their due, with the largest dinosaurs weighing roughly 10x an African elephant.

Though it's funny that in today's age of relative dwarves on land we have the largest animal that ever lived in the ocean.

Pigeons, while common and overlooked, are as smart as corvids and parrots, if not smarter. A pigeon can be placed anywhere on the planet and will find its way home each time, even if it's never been to that area before. Recently, it's also been discovered that they recognize human faces, and will quickly determine which humans are trustworthy and which ones to avoid. They're also shown to learn things (like math, for example) in a similar way to human children, right down to making the same kinds of beginners' mistakes.

Seagulls are similar to pigeons, but much more ferocious in their tactics. They've also smarted up to the fact that women are more likely to drop their things and flee than men when attacked by a flock, and started acting accordingly by targeting women who seem to be carrying something delicious to eat.

What were you listening to?

The biggest browns (large Grizzlies, Kodiaks, though they're just all one species with a lot of variation) are of a similar size to Polar Bears, giving them joint claim to "largest", and the two can breed to produce Grolar Bears, which ARE fertile (and may be less concerned by humans)

Kasovary

Moray eels are capable of inter-species communication to hunt in a coordinated manner.

youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

They might not be the strongest, or the biggest, but damn are they fucking resilient. They make lion cubs their bitches.

Black mambas, king cobras and taipan are considered the snakes with the greatest potential for killing people, and this isn't just due to their size, toxicity, amount of venom, speed, and aggression. These are extremely alert and aware snakes that are highly curious and quick to react. This makes them extremely hard to handle and they are some of the most likely snakes to escape in zoos. The only reason they cause relatively few fatalities is the lack of human contact.
Large pythons, boas, and even king cobras have been documented being capable of recognizing their owners. Studies have shown that a snake is less likely to bite someone its familiar with than someone they don't know.

Its also remarkably smart. It's one of the few animals that's been documented using tools.