Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Thinking of starting a HH army I collected BA in 40k a while back and I am thinking of maybe doing the same in 30k does anyone have any tips for starting out? Would also like to hear people vouch for the army they play because I am also contemplating trying something new this time around.

>Tartoros
>instead of Cataphractii
Do you even siege?
Decimate yourself!

SoH kept the tight coordination, the Alphas kept their insanely complex schemes, the IW kept their corpse-grinding autism... did the EC simply have the hardest fall of all the traitor legions?

No that's the Dark Angels.

Yes
They were legion of perfectionists bearing Emperor's aquila and ended up being sadistic hedonists.
Fulgrim was hardest Primarch to made traitor, because he had no reason to do so. That's why he had to be mindfucked first.

>mindfucked
Also literally fucked.

Nor a fan of the unhelmeted head but pretty good otherwise. What did you use to do the sort of rust spots on the armour?

Thanks! Only did the exposed head to practice doing faces really
Rust was sponging of mournfang brown and sponging of ironbreaker, though i normally use rhinox hide rather than mournfang

BA are cool (especially if you can into freehand painting), but you'll have to wait for the next book for legion special units and things.

Currently you can spam Assault Cannons like nobody's business, though this may change (the only other legion to get them doesn't get anywhere near as many) , you get flamer and inferno pistols, and both your Rites of war are about chopping people up (either in a massive Alpha Strike or super angrily), you have sweet swords (also an honest to god-emperor lightsabre, though it'll likely be too badass to use as it's a relic - as mentions, they're not seen much) and are all about getting stuck in

So any chance of Lupercaii in Malevolence?

Cataphractii Deathshroud kosher?

Forgeworld has a rules guy?

Had.

Forgeworld facebook intern confirmed Necromancer.

Blood Angels official colour scheme
>primary: red
>pauldron: red
>trim: red
Why was this allowed?

None. You’ll get them in the Molech book.

maybe/10

The 30k team has 3 people, one of which is that Indian guy they just hired, and every question is at least forwarded to this team. They have proven unable to put out a comprehensive FAQ because difojafijdsf,l;;klj ;jasko but will get to it at some point. I assume the weirder rules responses were by third world intern man.

I feel like they've changed it to be just the 30k Daemons list. I do hope we at least get daemon allies for non-WB legions.

I play Ordo Reductor Mechanicum
>Your generic HQ is an absolute murder machine
S 5 (10 with power fists), T 5 (can be upgraded to T 6), with 3 wounds (can be upgraded to 4 with IWND), and two attacks base. A fully kitted out melee Archmagos Reductor can put out 4 str 10 AP 2 attacks and 2 str 6 AP 2 attacks on the charge while lowering enemy toughness by 1. So your HQ can put out 6 attacks that can oneshot a space marine on foot every turn, 4 of which can kill him if he is on a bike, meanwhile he laughs at attacks from anyone short of a primarch tier character or Sigismund (aww 8 power fist attacks, how cute I hope you can get 4 wounds past my 3++ in a single turn).

>Your basic mandatory troops are neat even if not amazing
Your basic troops are pretty much jetpack Ogryn with FnP, armed with a pretty meh gun but it has rending. They have some nifty options but they are generally crap at killing troops. Good at murdering vehicles or grabbing and holding objectives though. I have noticed many enemies are afraid to charge them which works out well since they are hard to kill at a range (3 T5 wounds each with FnP), but even tactical marines can generally kill them by virtue of putting out so many attacks.

>Your tanks are scoring
>You have a unique FoC which gives you access to 4 Heavy Support and 2 Lord of War slots

Everything else I will mention applies to Mechanicum in general

>Robots are fucking amazing, especially the heavy support ones which can put out a ton of damage, largely ignore cover, and are tough as nails.
>Myrmidon destructors are BS 5 with preferred enemy everything, depending on how you kit them out they can fulfill any combat role except anti-tank and do a damn good job at it, whether killing hordes, light vehicles, marines, or terminators, also they all have power fists so they aren't complete push overs in CC
>One of your basic troops have rad furnaces which work just like rad grenades, but stack with them

Alright lads I'm stuck between a unit of dickbikes or a Forgelord and Thallax for my Orbital Assault list.
What sounds more fun

Is there any reason to take a Delegatus?

Quick question to you guys since I don't know much about the Space Wolves books on Black Library but which book should I get my friend for his birthday? I was going to get him the Leman Russ primarch book but there are other options here so I'm thinking about those too.

Doesn't have to be Heresy era but you guys were the first general for Warhammer I saw and I have Amazon open right now.

If you want to spam Veterans without risking VP from Pride.
Janky VP builds that win the game in weird ways.
If you really do not need the punching power of a Praetor and want the points spare.

What does /hhg/ expect from the eventual Sanguinius model from FW? What pose do you want him to have?

What legion

SoH

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME MAKE MAGNUS IN D&D 5E

As a Daemon Prince or pre-Tzneech fuckery?

I want him to be released as an alternate display base for Horus.

>We will never get a Siege of Terra Diorama

Running boxnaughts seems fun but stupid. I don’t own one yet.

How much of a bad idea would it be give one a Flamestorm, claw, Heavy Flamer, and Havoc Launcher for horde duties? Maybe frag Launchers or extra armor too.

I can’t inagine it doing anything else better than that

BA Trim has canonically always been black IIRC correctly. That's like saying that Ultramarine trim is blue because of one company that no one cares about.

Well thallax are garbage outside of camping objectives while jetbikes at least have some decent firepower.

>What do you want him to have?
Curly hair
>What do you expect?
Ringlets.

Race: Giant
Class: Sorcerer
Does: Everything Wrong

Str 18
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 21
Wis 3
Chr 18

Forgeworld has said they won't restrict the access to assault cannons because they don't want to invalidate any models people have already bought, but they will change the price tag on them.

So ass nipples are confirmed?

I love when old British nreds let me stay on Veeky Forums for stuff I normally have to go to /d/ for!

I’ve been away from the game for a while. Did the Blood Angels infinite moritat ever get changed?

Anything?

Yes, in the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List (ie they fixed the Moritat entry).

Dreadnoughts with short ranged weapons work if droppodded in, and don’t work if they’re walking the whole way. Doesn’t really matter what kind they are.

No, books 8 and 9 will still only cover the beginning of the war. If book 10 is the Martian Civil War, well, that will also be early Heresy.

Could be a while.

Their manager (Tony) hasn’t assigned them any time for FAQ duties. The Radio Free Isstvan podcast seems to be in touch with someone there and thinks it’ll be out soon, but it’s been written outside of their regular work hours.

No, GW started painting them 100% red in 3rd edition. Black trim is now “old school” and therefore Heresy-appropriate.

Wolfsbane if available (not sure if it’s out on general release yet). If not, Wolf King (Chris Wraight) is only a novella but imo it’s the best Black Library book on the Wolves so far.

If you don’t intend to get any unit into close combat ever. Shooty Praetors are a waste.

Friends I am stuck.

I have a Primus Medicae a friend made for me that’s got a power sword. It’s done really well but I noticed I would get way more mileage out of running one with Cataphractii for better survivability at the same cost.

Is there any real benefit to running the non terminator one over the Cataphractii?

Unless you're attaching the guy to a cataphractii squad it's absolutly pointless to give him all that armor. You pay more, are less mobile, can't get into most transports and are generally awkward to deal with.

Would it break your immersion if you fought against a White Scars outrider/jetbike list on a Zone Mortalis board?

There are lots of boarding actions in the White Scars novels and they involve very few bikes.

So yes or no?

I think you've given him too much wisdom.

On the other hand, there is that scene where Shiban's training by riding a jetbike at high speed inside the superstructure of the ship. They're clearly capable of driving the things in that sort of environment.

>On the other hand, there is that scene where Shiban's training by riding a jetbike at high speed inside the superstructure of the ship. They're clearly capable of driving the things in that sort of environment.

Which novel is this in?

Scars. It's the scene where Torghun races him a bit, then they go for a drink and he tries to recruit Shiban into a lodge.

A little. The logistics of loading bikes into boarding torpedoes or landing craft would bother me.

What if they're the defenders?

HA

He might be a chaos dude, but he seems pretty bro-tier.

Seems dumb, but possibly the fun kind of dumb. Gotta admit there's something cool about a jetbike charging down a corridor at a shield wall and smashing through it (and possibly the bulkhead behind them).
How long are bikes again? Would they be able to turn, both physically and semi-realistically?
There may be some issues with the "always take/always pass Dangerous Terrain tests" but I'm no rulesman
That said if you can show a jetbike that looks converted/painted for ZM in some way it'd be cool as anything.

Why play ZM if you don't want to use any infantry.

Ignoring the enormous amount of fluff stuff that could necessitate dismounting to continue functioning as a combat unit inside a starship, the ruleset's not designed around jump troops, bikes, and tanks.

>There may be some issues with the "always take/always pass Dangerous Terrain tests" but I'm no rulesman

The way it's worded, which seems like FW fucked up, is jetbikes/bikes always change difficult terrain tests to dangerous terrain if they turbo boost. However, Skilled Riders wording is you always pass dangerous terrain tests.

So, Turbo Boosting makes you take a Dangerous Terrain test. Skilled Rider always lets you autopass the test.

It seems rules as written they should have written it specifically to negate Skilled Rider, but they didn't.

>the ruleset's not designed around jump troops, bikes, and tanks.

Have you read the rules? They have rules specifically for all of those things you mentioned. Even vehicles as long as they're no wider than 4".

>Would they be able to turn
If the dickbikes are floppy, sure.

They basically treat corridors as tubes, you just roll up onto the ceiling to take those tight turns.

Makes about as much sense as a Leviathan Dreadnought fighting on a ZM board to be honest.

That's what I thought it might.
I'd either agree on a houserule with your opponent - I mean, it's ZM, odds are you're having a pretty friendly game - or leave the jetbikes in the hanger.

Still, I do like the idea of a Multi-melta Jetbike being used in a boarding assault, as the attacker - possibly with the prow being stretched or reinforced into having some kind of shield for the rider, maybe with chevrons or a lightning pattern.

As a defensive idea I must say I like it a lot less

>the rules allow it, so it must be okay
Yes, of course. I'll play a telemon, a achillus and agamatus squads, then.

Piss off m8, adults are having a discussion.

It's White Scars, they use bikes instead of boarding torpedoes. They have bikes that are void capable for short trips. Just read Scars and Path of Heaven.

>he doesn't use cavalry in the trenches
wew lad

There's rules for cutting through walls, right? Lascutters are a thing, and blast doors/bulkheads have armour ratings IIRC?

I now wonder how possible it would be (in extant rules) for a jetbike to ram THROUGH a wall/door - counted as HoW attacks, possibly with Turbo-Boost...

I know it's unlikely, but I'd love it if this thing gets some special rules to go through walls in ZM.

Oh yeah, that's going to be a thing now.

I'm actually pretty hype for that honestly, even if I would rather muh Hades (which had both existing rules, a model and references to being used by the marines during the crusade in HH1) had snuck in somewhere

Metal paintjob looks fine. But I think it's time we had a talk about mould lines...

We need some measurements on that now! Is it's within the 4" limit of ZM?

If so, BAM! ZM Termite attack.

Tartaros is officially the bodyguard unit of Perturabo on his own book

and the other IW focussed book, Tallarn

do you even BL?

>BL

Also, that's outdated for any time after the early heresy, Perty doesn't trust his bodyguarding to mere marines after Phall (so definitely not on Tallarn), dude's waaay to paranoid for that

I’m an Imperial Fist player and I’m wondering what the best way to equip Tartaros Terminators is.

I want to run an Assault Cannon but honestly have no clue otherwise.

Help?

I read that the Termite, Mole and Hellbore use phase-field generators, rather than crude digging like the Hades. The fuck is that? They don't just phase through the ground? Surely the drill does something.

The perks of Tartaros armour require running and sweeping. As such it is better for a melee-based unit. When pushed into a purely shooting role, you want cataphractii.
Invest in at least some melee capacity to justify the armour choice.

Never heard that one before, sauce?

It would not be impossible for the phase fields to help loosen up the ground for the drills at the front of the Termite and it's bigger siblings.

Spitballing around with melee option balance here. I want you tell me how viable you'd consider the following if they were options in the Legions army.

All three are melee weapons available to independent characters only. They all cost 25pts, and are single-handed, non-Specialist, non-Unwieldy melee weapons.

# 1) : S U, AP 2. Just a better power sword.

# 2) : S x2, AP 3. A power fist that sacrifices some AP to strike at Initiative, and without Specialist so a pistol can give +1 A.

# 3) : S x3, AP 4, and all of the Fleshbane, Shred, Instant Death and Armourbane special rules. Essentially a super Chainfist against vehicles and buildings, and a weapon that optimises wound rolls and wound removal over saves against infantry.

how would those volkites not get snapped off underground?

They're sitting besides hatches that they can recess into, so they withdraw when it's heading underground.

I think AP2 at initiative is a mistake outside of paragon-tier characters, and I include glaives/suzerain in that statement. A 2+ save should mean something and its supposed to be a hurdle. It's not necessarily OP but it breaks an unwritten rule for no reason IMO.

The second is essentially an S8 power sword. 25pts feels too cheap. Relic Blades are 30(?)pts in 7th and S6. Consider that's almost ID alongside easier wounding and anti tank.

Last is just weird, not sure what it represents. How does an weapon that plows through Land Raiders struggle against power armour?

Interesting objections.

1) is objected on fundamental grounds, namely that 2+ armour saves are sacred and only Praetors should have the right to remove them without going last.

I personally agree on the point that Glaives and Legatine Axes are too powerful for their cost, which is why I present an item that's weaker and more expensive than either of them. It's also proposed across Legion boundaries, making the distribution of such a game-shaking ability more fair.

2) is regarded as straight OP, though no reasons are given besides a comparison to old 7th-ed 40K Relic Blades, which do not exist in the game of 30K.

3) isn't objected to, but honestly probed at for understanding. There is both a simple answer as well as a mistaken premise in the question posed.

For one, a weapon can be effective at plowing through Land Raiders while proving ineffective against power armour for the same reason that a Strength 9, AP 3 attack and a S 9, AP 6 attack are fundamentally identical for harming vehicles: a weakness of design in the rules. In fact, the difference between S 9 AP 1 and S 9 AP - is minute.

For another, the premise that proposal 3) is weak against power armour is wrong, as the weapon is effective against multiple-wound models regardless of their armour save. It's only against single-wounders with a 3+ or 2+ save that the weapon falls behind for its cost value.

-

I'll make a second question to perhaps direct thought more productively. Imagine rather that the three weapons completely replaced the basic power weapons of the setting. All the other variants like Lightning Claws, Power Fists and so on remain the same.

How do you feel about the Sisters of Silence Executioner Blade?

Objections to Objection 1, I guess

If you're willing to spend 25 points on a single model to have an AP2 melee weapon, they better damn well be Praetor-tier, or they aren't going to make it across the board, period.

Even if they're a deep-striker or jump-pack unit, that's far too many points just to add one AP to a power sword. In my opinion, the cost balances out the "sacredness" of 2+ armor, because for that many points, you can take 5 Hunter Killer missiles on a unit of Javelins.

>I think AP2 at initiative is a mistake outside of paragon-tier characters
I kind of agree with this. I don't mind rending, for example if phoenix spears were AP 3, rending or rending on a 5+ on the charge but straight AP 2 feels like it devalues 2+ saves too much.

As for the other two,
>2) is regarded as straight OP, though no reasons are given besides a comparison to old 7th-ed 40K Relic Blades, which do not exist in the game of 30K.
The reason it is OP is that it provides too much flexibility and invalidates pretty much all AP 3 options by being simply better. Furthermore it would likely create a meta where any character who isn't in terminator or artificer armour is pretty much asking to be killed. Furthermore it doesn't really seem thematic, how are you making an AP 3 non-unwieldy, non-specialist weapon?

Furthermore his weapon completely invalidates some weapons for example the Phoenix Spear although slightly cheaper is still pretty much a straight downgrade since it relies almost entirely on getting the charge. Also rending focused weapons suffer significantly as opposed to this weapon.

>For one, a weapon can be effective at plowing through Land Raiders while proving ineffective against power armour for the same reason that a Strength 9, AP 3 attack and a S 9, AP 6 attack are fundamentally identical for harming vehicles: a weakness of design in the rules. In fact, the difference between S 9 AP 1 and S 9 AP - is minute.
Are there any strength 9 AP 6 or - attacks?

>It's only against single-wounders with a 3+ or 2+ save that the weapon falls behind for its cost value.
So like 99% of the generic LA list. Even then it is still objectively worse against marine characters than the initiative power fist.

>Are there any strength 9 AP 6 or - attacks?

I think Orks can manage it with some of the random weapons.