Warhammer Fantasy General - /wfg/

I have 6th Edition army books for Bretonia, Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms.

Which one should I use to build my 6th Edition army?

I would like some opinions on anons about how strong a gun "feels" in Warhammer RPG. If you shoot something, be it a man or an orc, what kind of damage does it do?

What I've noticed about the setting, and what the recent TW game does well, is provide an example of just how strong guns are and why its not yet suitable to use them as a primary weapon.

Many creatures DO have a lot of very powerful armor, magical or no (some creatures are strong enough to wear literal tank armor thickness plates), some creatures are just really small and fast (the guns are to primarily be flintlocks with the exception of Nuln - Nuln repeater rifles and pistols themselves are rather bulky, and while they have a high ROF they have low stopping power).

It still makes sense to have strong melee arms, and the world generally feels like at its most advanced it achieves Pike and Shot (such as Tilea's actual Tercios, or the Empire's pikemen), with still a strong emphasis on stuff like heavy shock cavalry and melee troops.

I'd say the faction with the most potential for guns is the Skaven who have a working, reproducable machine gun. Tbh they could really wreck some shit right now if they figured out WW1 style tactics which they would be AMAZING at it (digging trenches and tunnels, laying barbed wire, setting up Ratling gun positions, getting more Skyrie Jezzails, wearing down enemies with attrition and poisonous gas and artillery, actual flamethrowers and effective poison hand grenades). They already live in squalid, wet, and damp conditions so trench life would feel right at home for them, and they have the numbers to win attrition every time because their whole strategy is based on attrition already.

The Skaven's thing is being slightly more magitechnological than other races right? With a bit of anachronism. I'd say if WHF ever transcended to the actual age of gunpowder and 17th century, I wouldn't be surprised if they started spouting an 18th-19th century WW1 vibe.

BOW BEFORE YOUR KING YOU SHITS

This. The fact that an orc can laugh off a shot that tears his arm to pieces without even halting his charge is sufficient reason for why guns are useful but not the ruler of the Fantasy battlefield.

Answer my question

Just for the customizeability I'd say Ogres. Bonus points if you make them Bretonnian.

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Not him, but I think it's because they are actually fleshed culturally out and have some actual focus on them other then just supporting characters who like to mine rocks. They have depth and can have complicated political systems while keeping the time tested expectations.

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That is true, but that doesn't make them unsung heroes.

Empire is also fine!

I think I'm fairly comfy in my forest, seeing as you manlets have been unable to make way for the longest time already

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you first

That looks like a giant.

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SIGVALD. GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME.

Why? So that we are at eye level?

Ogres can field giants.

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yeah write that grudge down you fucking slut

But don't you dare go Tomb kings!

Problem for the Skaven is that all of their stuff relies on an extremely limited resource. Plus it's also dangerous as hell.

Technically it has. I mean, Greenskins and Chaos used to use giants and trolls and dragons as unstoppable slaughtermachines that took armies to bring them down. Now a single cannon or two can wipe out half a dozen. In the wargame and fluff handguns are incredibly deadly if not incredibly unreliable. Orcs fear them and even Chaos Warrior armor gets sliced and diced by bullets.

In 1e and 2e they're comparatively weak to bows and crossbows thanks to a long-ass reload time and high-ass cost with low-ass benefits, which has long been one of the criticisms, but they're very easy to fix in that regard.

It's also worth mentioning that Warhammer's industry is fantasized early Renaissance. Guns getting introduced on the battlefield didn't kill the medieval way of warfare until about 450 years later in our own European history, and over a thousand years if you consider China's first usage of them. And that's without the factors of magic, fantasy creatures, etc.

Holy cow these are gold

wtf do i like ogres now

Orcs hardly fear guns, they just want to scrap

Just popping in from /v/ real quick to tell you guys to check your Steam library if you've preordered Vermintide 2.

From what I've seen guns do very well fluffily against other conventional armies. Bretonnia for example condemns firearms and part of that is probably out of jealousy and/or bitterness after watching their glorious plated knights get slaughtered by random dudes in floppy hats with smoking sticks.

Handguns are said to make a joke out of armor and a single volley can drop an entire enemy charge, which is all great, but of course, they're not the end-all solution. The Empire's three biggest enemies consist of swarming hordes of either stupidly brutal, viciously numerous, or fanatically devoted foes. Sure, you can fire a volley into a line of Chaos marauders or Orc boys and watch them get decimated, the stragglers panicking and scattering. But then you've got to reload so you can do the same thing a full minute or two later. In that time, three more Orc or Chaos regiments are charging you, and their commanders are known in general to not be concerned with losses.

Your 100 handgunners may wipe out 90 or so heavily-armored orcs, but by the time they've reloaded they've been killed by another charge.

So basically, guns are great, but on their own they're not capable of winning wars by the sheer merit of the numerical superiority of the Empire's enemies.

If anyone can come up with a better alternative to Forsaken and Ogres I'm all ears.

Someone told me that a gun in Warhammer is supposed to do
1 Damage, -1 Rend

What sort of injury would that be to an average human being? Would it take an arm or a leg off like a minieball or just cause a big wound hole?

Why?

Which really isn't that all different from IRL. The whole reason for still including pike formations with early gun formations was because of the risk of being swamped by onrushing infantry en masse or cavalry while reload times weren't very good.

Probably not every orc, but in the 6E Empire at War background book it talks about how an army of greenskins broke and cowered/fled from artillery and gunfire before the infantry even drew their swords.

>Bretonnia for example condemns firearms and part of that is probably out of jealousy and/or bitterness after watching their glorious plated knights get slaughtered by random dudes in floppy hats with smoking sticks.
More like Bretonnian knights easily brush aside bullets like candy corn when they're protected by the Ladies blessing, and legitimately view them as bad form and dishonorable weapons for plebians.

>wtf do i like ogres now
Yeah Ogres are pretty great

Warhammer has funny tidbits like that.

Wasn't there something about Lizardmen literally sending a Daemon lord in retreat just by throwing big damn rocks at it with Pterodactlys?

Grimnir went alone up to the gates of chaos and held the hordes at bay ALONE for the time Caledor needed to create the vortex, nobody cared.
The dwarfs basically made the empire and created the bulwark of humanity against chaos
They btfo the elves from the main continent, de facto allowing the humans to evolve and develop in the gap created
They made ghal maraz and gave it to Sigmar.
They fought alongside the humans every single time, keeping chaos at bay, while the empire basically never helps against the greenskins.
It was a dwarf who killed the second Everchosen after Morkar, the one who created the Slayer of Kings

To sum up,the old world managed to last this long mostly thanks to the effort of dwarves, with the elves just swooping in to give the decisive strike and claim all the glory

this triggers the bretonnian

Apparently preorderers were just allowed into the technical test.

Should I preorder Vermintide II now or wait for it to come out? Is there anything you get other than Beta access?

ROCKS
SCREAMING

Presumably Warhammer guns use the same calibre as real world guns did, so you're looking at anywhere from a .62 to .89 calibre ball of lead. Historically, guns fired much more powerful shots than modern guns and the usual wound left on soldiers was roughly the size of a grapefruit, assuming the inaccurate bastards actually hit.

They're powerful enough to be able to blow arms off of orcs in WHFB.

How does the Empire even still exist desu

Faith, steel, and gunpowder.

I hate normal Ogres but the idea of Ogres poorly acting as Imperials amuses me.

The official preorder "beta" with no stat wipe on release starts on the 28th. You could wait for some footage from that to come out if you're unsure.

>Filename
Kek

>guns fired much more powerful shots than modern guns

They didin't fire more powerful shots, just bigger ones. Also they weren't nearly as inaccurate as portrayed.

I'm not big into Warhammer but I just got done playing Ultimate General Civil War's campaign for the umpteenth time and I'm looking for something different. I'm interested in Total Warhammer but it seems like it's just a grindfest of throwing lines of infantry into each other while your heroes slap dicks. UG: CW has a system dependent on maneuver, flanking, cover, and focusing fire from your brigades. Is my initial assessment of TW correct, or would it be worth buying if I want a game that's more like what I described?

What's a Bretonnian knights armor save? Like after cavalry and barding? 8th edition I mean

>Grimnir went alone up to the gates of chaos and held the hordes at bay ALONE for the time Caledor needed to create the vortex, nobody cared.
I'll wait what the chaosfags have to say about that.

And the odd magically gifted pyromaniac.

Total War also has army building, "tech research", diplomacy, and "siege warfare"

It really depends on a lot of factors, but in general, a big heavy musketball entering your body is likely to do more significant damage than a 5.56 passing through you.

You won't see a 5.56 take an arm off like a minieball did.

Crusader Kings II's mod Geheimnisnacht is pretty fun if you can get into it.

>tiktaq'to
>Tic-Tac-To
Why isn't more Warhammer Fantasy/40k this tongue in cheek anymore?

The new TW games are shit desu.You'd be better off dragging your scrotum through the Sahara.
Also this isn't really the correct thread or even subforum for you question.

If the Dwarf becomes more liberal then the technology they can pull out from ignored prototype could even surpass Skaven. It would even be possible for them to do combined arms tactics

It's only a grindfest if you play it like that. It is pretty in-depth game. You can hide your cavalry in forests, charges downhill have more impact. Skirmishing and forests affect missile fire.

Formations and stuff are important. You will be much better of with older TW games though.

Though, the main drawback with the Dwarves is that they aren't as good breeders as Skaven. Brave as they are, each individual dwarf seems more important than each skaven so attrition style warfare isn't in their favor.

>They btfo the elves from the main continent
Not saying the elves would have totally won that war, they would probably not. But they withdrew as the dark elves attacked Ulthuan. Caradryel, an underrated phoenix king, thought these were more pressing matters and called all elves in the old-world to aid in the defense of Ulthuan.

All hail the high king

Never seen a 5.56 round hit bone then?

They only did after Gotrek murdered Caledor II tho, and when the delfs attacked ulthuan the war was almost over already.
Had Caledor II survived he would've probably kept fighting the dwarves like the arrogant prick he was. By killing caledor gotrek actually made the elves a favour

Heavy armour 5+, shield +1, barded horse +2
You're at a 1+ or a 2+ on a horse in total

>mfw anons are still using break fluid to clean their plastics

It's like I'm in 2011 all over again.

That's 2+, that's good.
Actually if you can't improve an armor save beyond 1+ and a 1 always fails what's the point of strength 10 being -7 to the save?

Look, an idiot.

>CK2
>tactical combat

lol

The Asur still considered besieging Karaz-a-Karak before Malekith attacked. Caradryel ordered the soldiers in the old-world to come back. The fact that many nobles were angry at him for not continuing the fight shows that there were enough men and fighting spirit left to keep it going for some more time.

As I said, I don't think the elves would have won it. But the dwarves didn't BTFO the elves from the continent. They can thank Malekith for that. Or Caradryel, however you want to see it.
>By killing caledor gotrek actually made the elves a favour
Yes, they certainly did, Caledor II was a huge retard.

Basically it destroys the enemy armor.
If your av is 1+ and the enemy strenght gives you a -6, you still can throw armor at 6

no, against -6 even a 1+ would become 7+, which is impossible on a d6.

Empire Total War or Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai are closer to what you want.

At least be consistent with your name so my filter works

Well ok maybe they retreated and weren't kicked out, but the siege of Karaz-A-Karak has been described as a last ditch suicidal attempt to regain the lost honor.
If the new phoenix king didn't order tye retreat the continental elves wouldv'e probably extinct themselves on the wall of the karak becaise it is recognised as literally impossible to take.
As far as i know tho the attempted siege of the everpeak was the first big offensive from the elves. I don't recall a named dwarf hold ever being cited as besieged or destroyed by elves, while many important elven cities were cited to be razed and destroyed (tor alessi, oreagor).
Looking at how the war is described, seems like the elves fought mostly on the defensive since the very beginning

Well, chaos knights can get a 1+ because of their heavy armour being 4+
Makes it so if someone hits you at -1 AP (S4, weapon with Armour Piercing) you'll still save at 2+ like normal
But yeah I think Bretonnians cap at 2+

I'm here if you wish to dance.

And works so that you get an armour save all the way up to S8

Isn’t Karak Azul also besieged? I remember reading that a dwarf and elf warrior still fighting as ghosts in that place even now

No I get the point of a 1+ save, I don't get the point of -7AP

i know of what story you talk about, but i never read it myself and don't know if karak azul was ever cited

Gross overkill?
Cannons are stupid anyway when you can deal pretty much guaranteed D6 damage to anything on the board every turn per cannon
S10 and "I shoot 10 inches from the back" was a mistake

Anyone know where I can get some pre-state troops box set style Empire miniatures?

so you can reliably wound things that are T6 or higher

Don't they only hit one model per rank on the rank and file units? Plus they still need to roll to wound, even if it is a 2+ to wound your opponent can roll a 1.
They are still overkill in 1000pts though.
I understand the wounding but the armor penetration granted by strength 10 seems like gross overkill, nothing can make a 7+ save

well yes but that's just so they can have a nice and regular chart.
they made things with S higher than 7 so now they must respect their own chart

You can pretty much never go wrong with a cannon. It's one of the most cancerous models ever since 6th ed.

This seems like an opportunity to improve your filter game, user.

So you can reliably wound a dark elf lord with heavy armor, a sea dragon cloak and a charmed shield while he's mounted on a cold one.

More likely than not, that cannon will wound every time. And have fun bringing elite guys, elite cavalry, monsters or chariots to a game where the opponent fields cannons because they're done for guaranteed