/swg/ Plastic Spaceships Edition

Wasn't there an elaborate Battle of Naboo board game that had the lightsaber duel, the palace siege, the Grassy Plains, and the space battle happening all at once?

Queen's Gambit, yes.
I've never met anyone who has even seen a copy in person, though.

#
>universally derided as dogshit
Roger Ebert liked TPM.

th-that doesn't count! everyone hated it because I said so!

>Do you own any Star Wars toys or plastic, aside from X-Wing or Armada?
I have a cubic shitload of early-to-mid 1990s-era action figures and micromachines stuff.

One day when i have a big enough apartment to display them all I will, but right now they are in two moving boxes in my parent's attic.

What's the best aesthetic for Rebel officers?

The idea that the prequels are or ever were universally hated is... difficult to support. Hell, to this day RotS has a higher RT rating than RotJ.

They were disappointing, sure. But universally hated? Not except in the most extreme cases of historical revisionism.

So Legions is only going to cover Empire vs Rebs, but with new lore inclusions right? So Wave 2 will probably have Wookies for Rebs and Scout Troopers for Empire. But will we see things like Death Troopers and Hoth Echo Base defenders?

So they ignore the fact they cloned an entire army of one man and that Palpatine gave reason and explanation for his Clones in Revenge Of The Sith?

I don't think I could take the post ROTJ Canon seriously after Aftermath.

Informal but professional. They know how to be serious and are generally so but don't worry too much about ritual or protocol.

I liked parts of the PT more than the OT and I like the PT entirely more than the ST.

>The idea that the prequels are or ever were universally hated is... difficult to support.

Mind you, the same rather goes for the ST. Viewer opinion was highly divided rather than universally low.

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't a huge fan of TFA, and I haven't watched it since. I actually liked TLJ (heresy to admit here on /swg/ I know) but I can see where the film itself (and not just the smarminess of Johnson) can be making people hate it - and time will probably sour me on the film as well, but in the moment and at this time? Not a bad film. Not a great film, not something I'm likely to rewatch any time soon, but not the worst film I've seen by any means.

Well, both the TFA and TLJ have top notch acting and visuals I'm willing to say.

That being said, they fail as far as mechanical design and plot go to me.

They instead gave us a shitty knockoff of him and then killed him off without a second thought. And I'd gladly take Sheev clones over the retardation of Operation Cinder and the contingency.

The problem is they fail in ways (arguably objectively so) that tend to be VERY unappealing to the people that post here.

I'll take the EU Empire too while we're at it.

Palpatine all but admits his military is terrible at it's function in Lords Of The Sith (in so many words) and Rebels and Aftermath only reinforces that notion.

>and then killed him off without a second thought
As someone who genuinely likes Benny I actually didn't have a problem with this. Unless Snoke pulls some voodoo juju shit in From His Nap I don't feel like his identity is even really that important, because it's less about who he is and more how he's impacted Kylo. In the hands of anyone but JJ I'd be interested in seeing how things go with him given he's simultaneously killed his dark master and gotten schooled by his old one, on top of being the de facto head of the FO. Interesting character directions that will probably go nowhere, which is a shame.

I would be much less angry with the failings of the ST if they were honest. The PT’s problems are honest, for their faults the movies at least have vision and follow that vision.

Admitting to using a first draft, admitting (or at least backpedaling such that we can’t really know one way or the other) that there is no, or was no, plan for the trilogy, taking characters in directions that directly conflict with prior established personality traits of those characters without giving any sort of development to those characters, they are just magically different now, and then deflecting criticism by calling critics bigots are in no way honest mistakes and errors.

>only

God willing that's just for now. It's a great game for doing prequel skirmishes to if they get around to it. I'm sure they'll do Echo Base Troopers and Deathtroopers at some point. Maybe with Dir. Krennic as a new Commander option for the Empire. My guess is that since there are no "special" options yet that those will be either units that they don't want counting toward your 3 core unit minimum or special solos that aren't quite on the level of commanders. So maybe a squad of wookiees for the Rebellion or a mercenary like IG-88 or Dengar that could play for either side

>(or at least backpedaling such that we can't really know one way or the other)
This isn't like the Luke thing where things were taken out of context and he had to clarify (as I interpret it anyway)
He flat-out said 'yeah there was no plan', with zero room for interpretation or nuance. I don't know how people are seeing KK's statements as anything but damage control.

>I'll take the EU Empire too

Best Imperial approves of this message.

I am willing to entertain the idea that at some board meeting some suits threw around ideas for broad strokes and an intern wrote them down and the suits thought that that was a plan and it would filter down and then when RJ heard these broad ideas he just went in his own direction since that’s hardly a firm plan but it was enough for KK to rely on.

It would be worse, on some levels, than no plan at all but it at least let’s both sides believe themselves correct and I dunno, maybe I’m just feeling charitable.

Either way, the ST’s problems are not the honest mistakes of a visionary incompetent.

They even gave a better explanation of why decent people served the Empire and explained that Palpatine designed the Imperial military to corrupt it's officers and personal to a degree.

I like nu canon because it integrates the PT era better, which is where a lot of complaints originate from but eh.

>God willing that's just for now.
You want Prequel and Post OT content too?
I mean, it would be cool to play Rebs vs CIS or Empire vs Clones like in that Kamino Rebellion, but do you think FFG are going to run that hard? That's like 6 playable factions. The Clones, The Empire, The Rebels, The Rogers, The First Order and The Resistance.

I'd take that if they were going to make a version where things like Juggernauts, AT-ATs, SPHA or OG-9s could fit within the game.

I was always a big fan of the ANH/R1 look myself.

I like that aspect too, but the nucanon needs to reboot the post RotJ era if it wants to be the one true canon.

It would be neat if Legion eventually evolved into Galactic Battlegrounds: Tabletop Edition. Wookiee, Gungan, and Royal Naboo factions would be neat. Shit, I'd love to see FFG make up other planet-specific and species-specific armies, too.

Not the user you're responding too but my guess would be that FFG does like they did in X-Wing, e.g clumping the Rebels and Resistance into one team and Empire and First Order into another.

>40K Apocolypse scale Legion
Bring a tent and a sleeping back and a few days rations

They also deliver themes which many old fans find disappointing or even depressing. If the only Star Wars media I had ever seen were just the sequel movies, I probably wouldn't consider them particularly bad. But I have seen all the other movies (and more EU stuff than I care to admit), and so I can not avoid placing the sequels in perspective.

The sequel trilogies turn Star Wars into a trilogy of trilogies. In the original trilogy we have a cool little space opera story. Then we got the prequel trilogy, which gave us answers about the past. Now we get the sequel trilogy, which in turn stands for the future.

In a world hurtling anxiously towards an unknown future of climate change, disruptive technology and geopolitical shift, what does Star Wars have to say about the future? Previously Star Wars used to be highly optimistic. Heroes can succeed, no matter how slim the odds might seem. Even the impossible dream of freedom from Empire can become reality. Someone as evil as Vader can find redemption.

With the sequel trilogy Star Wars has not only stopped being optimistic, it has become deeply pessimistic. Everything the old heroes worked to build is despoiled and destroyed, and they are powerless to keep this from happening. The fates of the old heroes are almost comically tragic, containing only failed marriage (Han and Leia), disgrace (Leia), patricide (Han), school saberings (all three) and crippling depression (Luke). The new heroes can not succeed at anything, no matter how good their odds seem to be. Evil is unstoppable and good is entirely impotent: the only character to have achieved anything in the course of two films is the main villain. Most of the galaxy is in a state of apathy, and the few heroes who care to stand for freedom are wiped out on the funeral pyre of Crait without inflicting as much as a single casualty among the assaulting walkers.

In short: It is not going to work out. We will go quietly into the night.

>Heroes can succeed, no matter how slim the odds might seem.

And against odds that actually mattered.

> Evil is unstoppable

Which seems to be by the design of Good being even more stupid or incompetent than the Evil is.

Unless someone shows up to the FLGS with a single Ewok miniature and the simonsays upgrade card. Then the game will be over in a few minutes.

This reference went over my head

>What's the best aesthetic for Rebel officers?
A blaster wound in the belly.

Galactic Battlegrounds' infamous Simon the Killer Ewok. Type "simonsays" into the in-game chat function and you would summon a fast, shielded, nigh-invincible Ewok with a powerful blaster attack. One or two Simons could wipe out armies and bases with ease.

That's fucking hilarious

>With the sequel trilogy Star Wars has not only stopped being optimistic, it has become deeply pessimistic.

Not pessimistic. Realistic.

Happy endings are for children. The world is bleak and depressing and almost everyone fails far more often than they succeed. Hope is a dream you should have woken up from by the end of school. The movies are simply reflecting truth, and if you don't like what they're showing, then the problem is on you and not them.

BANE?

>Very fast fedora tipper tipping at high school.

The movies are nothing but unrealistic. The First Order is a strawman to beat that can conjure unlimited resources out of thin air so the good guys can destroy a new bigger badder eviler ship on a whim. The Republic has literally no right to exist knowing that in the entire galaxy they have less guys willing to fight for it than IRA or ETA.

It's good that Star Wars is Space Opera and not realistic then. Taste those words: Space. Opera.
The emphasis has always been on the word Opera. Operas tend to operate on a very romantic and fairy tale-esque build-up and ending, ever since Wagner wrote Lohengrin and blew peoples minds away.

That one. As I said in the last thread, it's distinct, and what comes to my mind when I think Rebel Alliance/New Republic officer.

>realistic

>the New Republic, after years of rebellion and war, with an enemy still at large, decides to disarm almost entirely - they maintain a small token fleet
>the First Order can pull new ships out of nowhere, with materials out of nowhere, with soldiers out of nowhere, with a weapon that bends space-time for no reason and destroys planets all across the galaxy

>realistic

>Galactic Battlegrounds

Origin of one of my earliest waifus.

Also, Echuu Shen-Jon best Jedi.

>The emphasis has always been on the word Opera.

Opera is entirely capable of tragedy. I mean, Tristan und Isolde was done by Wagner.

Realistically speaking authoritarian governments are shit at economy and can't afford as expensive military toys as democracies can. They are shit at science and can't create ground breaking super weapons, unlike a certain real world democracy. They are shit at accountability which makes them way more corrupt than even a comparatively dirty democracy. They are shit at meritocracy and internal stability, which means key positions are far more likely to be filled with impressive yet incompetent shits, or politically safe yet incompetent shits. Finally, the leadership is isolated from the negative consequences of the stupid shit they pull which means retarded policies remain in force indefinitely rather than until the next election.

>57992450
Man, I remember high school, but even *that* wasn't this edgy

Do you paint your miniatures? Why or why not?

t. Lawrence Kasdan

Holy fuck ya'll. user's an edgy fedora-tipper, but you people missed the point harder than that snowboarder with the broken neck missed his landing yesterday.

He's saying it's realistic because IRL, the bad guys usually win. The plucky good guys don't snatch victory from the jaws of defeat with a lot of courage and a little luck. The machine grinds everybody down. Which riffs on 's points that:
>Everything the old heroes worked to build is despoiled and destroyed, and they are powerless to keep this from happening.
>Evil is unstoppable and good is entirely impotent...Most of the galaxy is in a state of apathy,

He's saying it's realistic because that's mostly how real life works. Which, while edgy as fuck, is *more* true than not. That's why we remember when the underdog winning actually happens; because it happens so rarely. Whether the FO can conjure up resources or come up with bigger blacker ships is totally fucking immaterial to the topic.

You, though. You get it. Good job.

Yes, SW is actually a fucking STORY, and stories have themes. One of those is that the good guys are Fated to win. Space Opera, indeed. And nu-canon has either forgotten or simply doesn't care about the face of its father. The good guys are SUPPOSED to win. To quote Professor Tolkein:

>We all know the world is full of chance and anarchy / So, yes, it's true to life for characters to die randomly, / But news flash: the genre's called fantasy! / It's meant to be UNREALISTIC, you myopic manatee!

Except the bad guys win JUST becuase of writer fiat.
That isnt realistic.
Realism would be the bad guys winning becuase the idealism of the heroes turns out to be inadequate to running a galaxy and it all fell apart into warring states.
That would've been miserable realism.

The New Republic disarming for no fucking reason and getting curbstomped isnt realism - it's just stupid.

>Yes, SW is actually a fucking STORY, and stories have themes. One of those is that the good guys are Fated to win. Space Opera, indeed. And nu-canon has either forgotten or simply doesn't care about the face of its father. The good guys are SUPPOSED to win.

Yes but it's also the second movie in a trilogy and things are darkest before the dawn.

Id like to see prequel stuff be it's own thing like Kit Fisto and Ashoka commanding clone troopers and gungans against Grievous and a swarm of battle droids, and have them all playable against later shit too. I don't know if there's enough good sequel material to bother with them as their own things though. You've got a lot of good Commander options in Rey and Kylo and Hux or whatever but there's barely anything notable for ground troops. May as well just roll them into the Rebellion/Empire

>Except the bad guys win JUST becuase of writer fiat.

So did Trump.

>Realism would be the bad guys winning becuase the idealism of the heroes turns out to be inadequate to running a galaxy and it all fell apart into warring states.

Thats actually pretty close to describing what happened to Luke, though. His idealism couldn't survive the real world.

If there was any indication that being second in a trilogy was the point, things would be different. But as has been communicated previously, by RJ himself in fact, there is or was no overarching point and plan. TLJ was made to be depressing not cause it sets up a more dramatic victory but for its own sake of depressing-ness.

I think there is enough for the FO (They've got a much stronger close range focus than the empire did, with 3 different melee weapons shown even outside the elite guard as well as flamethrower troops) for ground units. They'd overlap with the Empire but that's to be expected like how the Empire overlaps with the Clone Wars republic troops.

I'd disagree with that heavily. For all it's flaws, it very much did set up 'There is hope out there' as it's final note. The rebellion is beaten and bloody but they go out of their way to show the stories they are inspiring in others and the force flowing strong in a new generation.

>Happy endings are for children.
See that's the difference right there. Lucas always said he made his films for the kids. But JJ made it for his mystery box and RJ made it to subvert expectations. Lucas made films for kids and KK... doesn't give a direction for the films.

I'm leaving R1 out of that because despite the "everyone dies" ending it does at least led into the "the gave us hope" - for the greater good ending. Which is less optimistic, but still going somewhere. I genuinely wonder what the opinion of someone who saw R1 without seeing any of the greater saga. But it's going to be close to a decade before that's even possible

Hope in the general sense? Sure. But nothing is set up that will not require a time-skip. Solo is dead and Ford is intentionally gone as an actor, Luke is dead and while he could ghost and even interact with the world it would be minimal by necessity. Carrie is dead so even if Leia shows up she’d be CGI (Force, I hope they don’t do that.)

There is certainly no plot thread that TLJ set down that Nap could pick up and run with in any rational sense. So there’s very little hope for what’s going on right then at the end. The resistance is a handful of people and no one came to their aid, the hope of this struggle is gone.

Real life works that way only if you are an American, who in their modern reduced form lack the power to create even a fictional functioning democracy.

In real life people care a great deal about the things they create and refuse to let them be destroyed without a fight. In real life, existential threats are highly electrifying and bring about vigorous efforts to secure the future. In real life good guys are frequently not the underdog, since being evil is actually detrimental to the ability to get shit done. In real life bad guys rarely prosper, which is why everybody (excluding ISIS) goes to such great lengths to prove to everyone they are not evil.

Finally someone who understands how narrative works.

Howdy fellas, looking for some inspiration for an Empire focused campaign, plot hooks, hell, campaign stories in general, anything is welcome

Is your party a bad enough bunch of dudes to take the Glove of Darth Vader for themselves?

Space Station 13 and we don't know who the traitors (Rebel infiltrators) are. Or, your party are the infiltrators playing stormtroopers. Coupled with an upcoming inspection from... Vader.

Not this shit again. Snoke is objectively underwritten.
And no, it's not the same as the OT Emperor because those movies were sequels to anything and so there's no need to explain how Sheev came to power like there is with the big bad of a sequel to RotJ.

>were sequels
WEREN'T*

This. Couldn't care less if he died, but he can't be billed as important, powerful, the man behind the first order and a force using boss but then be given ZERO character.

>So there’s very little hope for what’s going on right then at the end.

Likewise in The Empire Strikes Back. There was a much more conclusive 'Yep, shit's fucked' there. Now, while I'll freely admit that yeah, there will need to be a timeskip...there also was a timeskip between ETB and Return of the Jedi. Luke goes from being a padawan not ready to fight Vader to a jedi knight skilled in the force and able to beat Vader between the two movies.

You should petition Disney for prequels which explain how Snoke came to power. Would that make it better?

For all his talk (and later backpedalling) of there not being a "plan" I'm surprised no one called him out for not sitting down and making the plan himself then.

>prequels
They should have explained it in the films.

Nope, damage is done. It should have been written into the movie.
I'm like 90% sure JJ didn't know that TLJ dude was going to kill him

>ESB
Han had to be rescued. That at the very minimum provides a concrete plot thread of what to do next.

They can use the symbols of the Alliance. They can recruit young fools by claiming to be the Alliance. They can have Leia, the sole survivor, as their nominal leader. They can emulate the Alliance's uniforms, equipment and doctrines. They can try to be a spiritual successor for the Alliance and its ideals.

But an organization is, in a fairly tangible sense, its members, and the dead can not be restored to life. The Alliance died on Crait. Undefeated in battle, stabbed in the back by traitors in the government. (I wonder if anyone in the story group even realized this storyline would have this kind of unintended symbolism.)

>And no, it's not the same as the OT Emperor because those movies were sequels to anything

Yeah but it's pretty objectively true that the Emperor is underwritten too. He's got no history, he basically just exists to give Luke a final temptation.

If it's impossible to make it better retroactively, then why bother being mad about it? It's already happened, and there's nothing we can do about it.

You realize this means that there's going to be the Pre-Sequel Trilogy

Do we think it's going to be the ContraRian Trilogy or the D&D adapts an EU book Trilogy?

But it’s more subversive to proceed forward in a franchise with no plan!

I would be certain of it. JJ wanted Snoke to be the ST’s Palps or Thanos or (whoever)

Sure, but it doesn't raise as many questions as Snoke.

That's because he worded his tweet very carefully. He said there was no plan when he was approached. But remember he wrote his draft before TFA went into filming. So at the latest he was approached pretty early into TFA's development. He could have just been approached as soon as JJ said he only had time for the first movie, which would be before they even wrote TFA.

Yeah, if only the symbol of the Rebel Alliance was a phoenix or something...

True enough. I guess I forgot about all the electro batons and Snoke's elite guard.

If anything I'd want them to do the FO just because I think Snoke would make a fun mini to paint.

All the bad guys in the Star Wars films are underwritten. The only reason we know more about Vader is because of the prequels. The Emperor, Snoke, Dooku, Grevious, and Maul (especially Maul) are ALL underwritten when you judge things based on the films.

That's because their "whys" don't fucking matter. What matters is that they're THERE - that they have X power and Y abilities and that they stand in the way of the heroes goals. That's literally a core trope of the genre.

The Expanding Fronts mod got a new release earlier this year and its finally useable. I didn't play a whole lot of it yet, but it gives Rebels the A-Wing and B-Wing as regular units.

Galactic Battlegrounds is one of the greatest games I've ever played. I'm sad that it doesn't really have a community anymore.

Or everyone on the station is an infiltrator, but part of a different Imperial agency (COMPNOR, ISB, Corellian Public Safety Service, etc.) and completely unaware of the other agencies.

Electro Batons, Spears and that heavy power axe one of them handed over for the execution. My leanings as a force is 'Elite but a bit unwieldy'. The FO likes it's heavy force but often seems to have issue being able to bring it to bear. Which shows really nicely in the flamethrower troops and the melee stuff on a TT front.

>That's literally a core trope of the genre.

Then the genre is shit.