/osrg/ - Old School Revival General

>There is no value in cross-pollination
seems a tad extreme, my dude

Taking my first plunge into rules-writing, it's really hard!

How did you write your home-brew? (Are you still writing it?) Can I see it?

...

What are the best supplements for labyrinth lord

I hadn't thought about it but probably. Played Alphaman when I was a kid, which had a really neat 'figure out' function for identifying post apocalyptic technological devices that I tend to do something similar to when players find technomagical items.

Doing stupid shit like purposefully triggering the chaos traps in ADOM so I would get mutations, or otherwise just doing things and seeing if I would get killed probably rubbed off as a general approach.

Do you really need anything other than the AEC?

Here's mine. I intentionally try to fit it all on one page.

I posted a draft of one two threads back, at the very end of the thread. I think layout is as important as the actual text. Use plenty of whitespace, make sure you break things up with subheaders, don't be afraid to use paragraphs.

In terms of text, try to be clear. That means relatively short sentences, standardized use of terminology, introducing something not just where it first appears but where a reader is likely to look for something. Don't waste words: a good idea in general, but especially so with OSR stuff, where you have a crowd that tends to like simplicity. Your best High Gygaxian will probably suck.

In terms of rules, try to figure out why you're writing what you're writing. If it's just "I want my house rules in game form", you'd probably be better just writing a Ten-foot Polemic-style house rules document. I wouldn't bother with an OSR game unelss you had a clear end in mind that other games don't currently meet.

An Echo, Resounding is technically for LL IIRC, although if you're looking for material on the player side, it's mostly just the AEC

So how do you guys describe rooms when dungeon crawling? Especially exits and directions. For example, do you say: there's one door on the wall to your right, two doors on the wall opposite you, and a hole in the ground on the left end of the room? Or instead say absolute directions (e.g. north, south...)?

Absolute directions. Yeah, yeah, it's less realistic and all but fuck it, it helps me picture things better in my head if everyone has a magic mental compass.

I do this too, because my players get confused often and otherwise I have to explain each room three times before we can move on.

I kind of dislike it because it sorta "removes" the option of getting lost - then again, is that fun?

What classes would exist in a fantasy bronze age game set in a fantasy Mesopotamia?

Fighting Man and Magic-User

Warrior, wise man, trickster, beast spirit thing.

Fox
Goose
Beans

So gygax talked about making classes for anything, even something like a playable Balor, but simply scaling it down and making it work its way up.

You WOULD create a custom class for whatever your players wanted, wouldn't you, oh wise referee?

>create a custom class for whatever your players wanted

Easy to do with ACKS desu.

Sure I guess. Take one of the existing classes, tweak em a bit based on what inane bullshit the player is asking for, and we're good to go.

No. Fighters or Magic Users, and they are always human. They can play Pathfinder for their special snowflake races.
No one ever got that Gygax was being sarcastic there.

So you wouldn't even allow elves?

He meant it when he said it.

I don't. The "decide each day if you're a Fighter or MU" gimmick is awkward, anyway.

...

Do you?

That's very doubtful, Gygax HATED anybody playing non-humans in his games.

Nobody cares faggot.

Stat up that monitor lizard sword guy right fucking now.

If you really think Gary FUCK HOBBITS Gygax would genuinely allow a "Balrog class" in a game you're brokebrained.

Just like he always hated Magic-Users despite playing exclusively after he gave them a shot, right?
He got fed up with powergamey bullshit by the time he wrote AD&D. He was cool with monster players at the start.

My version is complete enough to run: coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2018/01/osr-glog-based-homebrew-v01-rat-on.html
>Guess I’ll have to lift some of the cooler ideas and throw out the rest.
That's how it goes!
Their own (for ease of use).
Both are excellent!
>Mageguru uploaded it already. No one in their right mind shills their product in /osrg/
It's been a remarkably unsuccessful strategy so far, I must admit.

>FUCK HOBBITS
It was more to the tune of "anyone who wants to play the little guy probably wants to play the little guy"

>He got fed up with powergamey bullshit by the time he wrote AD&D
What the actual fuck are you talking about? he never stopped being a powergamer, he encouraged and fully expected it hence why everything he ran on his tables was dark souls hard.

It doesn't remove the option of getting lost. If they get lost (say due to a slide or teleport or something), you tell them they're lost, rotate your DM map, and start describing their new locations with "top" "bottom" "left" and "right" sides of the map instead of cardinal directions. When they figure out where they are, they can rotate their lost map around and line it up with their regular map, and the mapper can merge them when he's got some time.

This. Gary loved The Hobbit, he just didn't think Hobbits should ever be able to wade into an army and start cutting them down like a demigod.
He also loved Magic Users, and used houserules to keep his players from dying too suddenly, unlike Meme Gygax.

His group was up to the armpits in *metagaming*
He came down hard on powergaming

He was also really into skillful "In-game tactics and planning" D&D.

Does someone haves Arnold K google drive?

Do your players (wisely) fear the Veins of the Earth?
Well, don't worry! You can make a few simple changes and turn the entire thing into a... a.... well, just go have a look.
coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2018/02/osr-horrible-magical-candyland.html

Also!
youtube.com/watch?v=CsGYh8AacgY&feature=youtu.be&t=124

goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-goblin-library.html

Page 8 of OD&D Whitebox.

>Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as
virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a
player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and
progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign
referee.

Well if you don't give me any abilities to work with, that cute fucker is probably just gonna be a fighter.

Fighting-Man, Thief, Priest (some sort of MU/Cleric mix, the priests of the ziggurats were obviously clergy but in a kinda astrology-wizardy way), Whore (seriously. The remains of their literature is full of seductive prostitutes even compared to the average, and they had temple prostitution and all that).

I'd design the setting in general such that there aren't really locks, so the Thief would just be the best at dealing with traps and skulking, plus probably have some sort of innate contempt for taboos that might affect others.

This is good but... pretty weird for a PC.

>You WOULD create a custom class for whatever your players wanted, wouldn't you, oh wise referee?
Absolutely. The last few threads' MUH F/MU ONLY is the obvious work of shitposters, angry that there are any standards at all for what counts as OSR and trying to revenge themselves by trolling with claims of an extremely narrow definition. You should disregard them, as they are assmad losers who probably like TFT.

>You should disregard them, as they are assmad losers who probably like GLOG
FTFY

It's not meant for PCs. The spell plague thing is to keep things sort-of in check when players inevitably mug a Genocideomancer and start using his spells.

I have not been perfectly alert as per the shitflinging in the last few threads, but when I see people argue for fighter/magic-user only it's usually for simplicity rather than authenticity (given it's objectively unauthentic)

They're just Carcosa-loving shitposters.

>Genocideomancemanticore
*Genocideomanceomanticore

Ah, that makes more sense.

I was asking because I really liked the idea of having a game where all the players could approach with a concept for a class, the ref could disappear for a week, and then on game night present classes for all the concepts. You wanted to be a trickster wizard? Here's your class, and you wanted to be a town guard but as a class? here you go. Obviously if two people wanted to play the EXACT same thing in that case you could use the same class but everyone basically just gets a class.

Yeah, make him a fighter but since he's small maybe he can't use big two handed armor or normal armor sets. Maybe his scales count as a small amount of natural armor. He'd probably get some kind of extra-sensory abilities with his sense of taste with his tongue. He'd probably be cold blooded; maybe he holds dominion over reptiles and when he reaches name level he'd be given a retinue of crocodiles nearby to command?

Also the titular emblem spell is a nod at nethackwiki.com/wiki/Genocide

Where do you hide and put all that juicy treasure your PCs need?

In barrels of pickled fish. They will never find it there.

>You wanted to be a trickster wizard? Here's your class, and you wanted to be a town guard but as a class? here you go.
Frankly, the town guard is 100% a Fighting-Man. I hate to be the guy, but really. A Wizard/Thief should be easy to devise on the same principle as the Elf, though.

>the town guard is 100% a Fighting-Man

I'd say he'd be a normal man if he's a greenhorn who hasn't seen much combat, but yeah, your grizzled town guard who's seen some shit would definitely qualify as a Veteran IMO.

Well yeah, exactly. The typical NPC guard's definitely a Normal Man, but for a PC, it's not reasonable to just go "okay you opted to play a faggot, so you get to be one level worse than other Fighting-Men".

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're not getting it.

His class is not fighting man that's fluffed as a town guard. He wants to be THE town guard as his CLASS.

He has some good fighting skill yes, but he can also ask people for help in finding local fugitives and monsters nearby the town. His lantern grants morale bonus, and he can conscript a few young men from the town as deputies. Eventually, he can even do a thing where he slips into a back alley and somehow appears out of another alley *ahead* of the guy he was chasing, because he knows the town that well and is the best guard.

That's a town guard class. Not your wimpy fighting man with a coat of paint.

But why?

That sounds awful.

>somehow appears out of another alley *ahead* of the guy he was chasing
If this class isn't magical, this is just silly.

>Thinks that only the designated wizard classes are allowed to do anything supernatural
>in a fucking fantasy game

I think you're silly, user.

>Justifying disassociated mechanics again
Can you just stop?

They're the wizard classes for a reason, dumbass.

>the priests of the ziggurats were obviously clergy but in a kinda astrology-wizardy way
Magic-Users _already_ fill that niche.

>dipshit hick town guard can do what it takes a trained magic user years of training and dangerous field experience
Yeah, nah. Take your shit to 4E.

If they have no in-setting justification for literally magical feats, they have no reason to possess those mechanics.

How many times can the guard do this? Where can he do it? Why can't he do it elsewhere? You will hit the disassociated wall sooner rather than later.

>but he can also ask people for help in finding local fugitives and monsters nearby the town.
So can fighting men.
>His lantern grants morale bonus,
Kinda weird, but I think battle standards do too?
>and he can conscript a few young men from the town as deputies.
So can fighting men.
>because he knows the town that well
So can fighting men.

We both know that's bullshit.

If the world follows different rules, such as having forces totally different then the physics of our world, then it stands to reason that symbolic or dramatic law is just as powerful if not more so then physical law. Mysticism is a key component of fantasy; you don't have to accept it, but that doesn't mean I won't.

>town guard spends decades of his life defending and learning every nook and cranny of his town, knowing the names of all the old cornerstones and having met with all the families of rats to help him bring peace, sharpening his skills
>has an extremely deep connection to the place he is sworn to protect and knows all the warning signs of criminals and the paths they will take, making it trivial to cut them off no matter how fast or canny they are
>the people in the town feel as though he is always watching and protecting them, and his aura is felt in all the cobblestone
>Implying some faggot who reads books in a tower all day imagining more interesting things then himself can enact magia through his will

You don't know shit.

We got a live 4rry, people.

Stop shilling it, everybody hates it.

Accept this and internalise it and stop shitting up the thread.

The other guys who replied to you are or are indistinguishable from shitposters, but I don't really see what niche a town guard is supposed to fill in my dungeon exploring game. It seems like typical NPC stuff, like the Sage, to me. I would let someone play a Balrog, because those can contribute to the game about exploring dungeons we're actually playing, but I wouldn't let someone play an NPC Sage or rando cobbler, because they can't (and this is a problem lots of later games have, like Runequest -- okay, you can play a Merchant or whatever, but Merchants can't contribute dick so now your experience with the game sucks).

I mean, you do you. But if it doesn't work out well, that's probably why.

...

Carrot Ironfoundersson was a high level fighting man.
Samuel Vimes was a low level fighting man, or possibly even a normal man.

So what do we think of megadungeons?

For me at least, because I don't get to play very often, I prepare smaller dungeons that can be completed in one session of play - mainly because after a month, we forget where we are.

(pic not related)

Megadungeons, like 1-20 campaigns, are ideals to aspire to rather than practical reality.

>unironic Vimesposting
This Vimesposting is nowhere near ironic enough. Leave this place, and don't come back until you understand that the Rincewind books are better than the Vimes books.

>I prepare smaller dungeons that can be completed in one session of play - mainly because after a month, we forget where we are.
Well, personally I do the Rients thing and insist on each adventure ending with the session – if anyone's left in the dungeon by session's end, he must roll on the table appropriate to such things to see what happens to his guy.

>but I don't really see what niche a town guard is supposed to fill in my dungeon exploring game.

Oh no, you're absolutely right. It was just an example that got way out of hand. I could dig a town guard that explored, say, the dungeon built beneath the town, but it's mostly an NPC or hireling class. I could see a PC having a town guard as a side character to watch over things while having a main character playing the actual game.

>don't agree with me
>you're obviously X and Y!

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

He could note the room number if he meant it literally. He clearly means that in a "when we look at the map, nothing looks familiar" way.

You're welcome to dismiss for drawing false conclusions and being overly hostile, but gave you sound advice.

That makes more sense. It sounds like a horrible grind spending months of your life underground in a single dungeon.

> I do the Rients thing
I haven't heard of this. I'm going to check that out, thanks

What does even mean? Sound advice for what? He said "stop shilling it" and "internalize it". Stop shilling what? Internalize what? He used meaningless terms as an excuse to post the maymay .gif and nothing else.

If each level and section of your megadungeon feels like the same dungeon then you’re doing it wrong desu

If each level and section of your megadungeon feel like different dungeons why not actually make them different?

They key point was
>everybody hates it.

>Stop shilling what?
The idea you reposted in response every time someone new said it was bad.
>Internalize what?
Same thing you were supposed to accept. That everybody hates the idea.
You could also "take it too heart," "grok," "understand," "remind yourself," or whatever else.

And how is a face scrunching up in disgust a meme?
That guy uses that image a lot, but I've literally only seen it here.

I'm going to make this very clear - so clear even your autistic mind can cope with it:

NOBODY LIKES YOUR SHIT IDEA
PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT IT
UNDERSTAND AND ABSORB THAT FACT SO YOU STOP ANNOYING EVERYONE

And I did that all that without a maymay.

Ok, I'm entirely new to this conversation, and sounds like the guard guy is being a shitter, but isn't it important for the GM to also make character traits and elements relevant to the story?
I'm not saying pander to them, but if a major character trait of the fighter is that he likes to cook, I'd throw him a bone every so often and give him an opportunity to cook something for the party, or even have a local town cook-off.
In a previous campaign, I made an Intelligence-based Healer out of an Alchemist class, and my GM did make it a point that first aid and other forms of healing became relevant to the story.
The again, I'm more used to Character-driven narratives, and I'm sure that differs between GMs.
I guess what I'm saying is that it really boils down to group expectations and communication.

You could play Merchants in Blackmoor too, though the dungeon wasn't the focus back then.

My main problem with it is that the idea goes against OSR principles.

It's more 5E to have some snowflake class that has magical abilities - "Yay, I'm a cobbler that has mental mastery over shoes!" or some other inane crap. In the games we used to play back when OSR was just R, you could make a gumshoe style character quite easily if you were playing a game with proficiencies. You didn't need dumb pseudomagical abilities.