Is he really immortal god made from combined souls of anceint shamans or is he an abomination spawned in some lab...

We know that he was around before the Dark Age of Technology. The other Perpetuals comment on this in the Unremembered Empire. He's old as dirt. The question is if his powers are truly from the Shamans or from that deal he made with Chaos.

I'm leaning towards the Shamans because, while the Chaos Gods can do some retarded shit, even they're not dumb enough to create an entity that can challenge all four of them to some degree.

I'm curious as to whether Ra Endymion's mother was telling the truth or if it was just bluster.

His true name is Eugenius Archon and he is a creation of the Third Radiance. Malcador was a member of this organisation.

>27835-27865

>The emperor of the Pan Europan Allianz, Eugenius Archon, conqueres the realm of the „Yndonesic Blok“ with an army of genetic modified soldiers.

>Till 27900

>Eugenius Archon, defeats „Ursh“ after a long unification war and unites the tribes of earth. The rests of the “stone men” die out in the following centuries, also all mutants on Terra.

Haha, what a story, Mark.

We don't really know.

It's very possible the memories he showed Ra were real. It's also possible they weren't. I believe the whole "Dark Age weapon left out of it's box" spiel that Zu goes off about isn't true, since we know he subdued a shard of the Void Dragon around the Middle Ages.

And because his interactions with Alivia on Molech happened, and that was very early Dark Age at latest. What he did there is still very much so up for debate - what Horus gets told is almost certainly full of lies or half-truths. We don't know when he had what powers, and what he got out of Molech, and how.

The number of people here saying BL is pushing the Dark Age origin is a bit strange IMO. It's an unreliable and hysteric claim made once, by an unreliable character, and it's directly contradicted by multiple other things. It was just ADB doing his "hahaha look how mysterious the Emperor is" thing.

What is Horus told in the books? Sorry for being a newfag.

That's...Literally what warhammer is about? You didn't really think the writers root for the empire, right? That they write the empire as a 'good guy'? More often than not, the empire fascist tendencies, fanaticism, zeal, bigotry or disregard for human life fucks them over...

>The other Perpetuals comment on this in the Unremembered Empire.
That just means they(and you as the reader) trust their memories. A shaky proposition when talking about one of the most powerful psychic entities ever. History is written by winners, and He had one hell of a streak before His fall. I wouldn't trust what anyone that believes they've had prolonged contact with Him has to say.

He's nothing more than a psyker with good intentions. He was only about 40 years old during the Horus Heresy and died during it. His background and rumors of being comatose are almost 100% fabricated by chaos forces within the imperium trying to destroy his legacy through instability and lies

>eugenius archon
>genius archon
>archon
I knew it

Basically that the emperor got his powers in his fieldtrip to Molech, which is most likely chaos being chaos than the actual truth

I thought it was the power and/or knowledge on how to create the primarchs.

Aye, that's most likely what happened. What i said is what Horus was told, which is in all likeness chaos lying to him

Nice bait, heretic. Hope you enjoy sucking xeno/daemon dick, whatever your persuasion is.
The Imperium is the 'good guy' in the sense that they're the last, best chance for sanity, order, and survival in a galaxy that is hostile to life. Aside from all of the existential threats (tyranids, necrons, warpspawn, orks) to humanity and the rest of sane life, in addition to the failure of the xeno factions (the eldar spawned Slaanesh and haven't done jack to stop it, the tau are worthless in a galactic sense and will be for the forseeable future), only through the Imperium, which can function only as an autocratic, theocratic, and liberty-restricting regime, can humanity actually survive to reclaim ideals and quality of life once the psychic evolution occurs, as the Emperor has planned.

Early on, when Erebus is initially turning him, he asks Horus why the Emperor only made 20 Primarchs. Why not make 2000? Basically, he implies that the Chaos Gods hand a hand in making the Primarchs. He sends Horus on a trippy warp dream that shows him the 40K future and manipulates him in other ways, setting up the Emperor as a guy who wants to be a God and stole power from the Warp to do it. In one scene, we see that the Emperor supposedly allowed for the Primarchs to be scattered.

As for Molech:
>‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.’
>‘But the Emperor had no intention of honouring His debt to the gods. He turned on them, taking their gifts and blending them with His genecraft to give birth to demigods. The Emperor condemns the warp as unnatural, but only so no other dares wield it. The blood of the immaterial realm flows in my veins.'
t. daemon
>The last time Alivia had climbed these particular steps, her legs were like rubber and fear sweat coated her back like a layer of frost. She’d helped him [Emperor] come back to the world; her arm around his waist, his across her shoulder. She’d tried to keep his thoughts – normally so impenetrable – from reaching into her, but he was too powerful, too raw and too damaged from what lay beyond the gate to keep everything inside.
>‘If what’s beyond here is so terrible, why didn’t the Emperor seal it Himself?’ ‘Because He couldn’t, not then, maybe not ever,’ said Alivia, remembering the gaunt, aged face she’d seen beyond the glamours. He’d been gone no more than a heartbeat to her, but she saw centuries carved into the face she’d watched go into the gate.

whatever the truth he is or what he represents is the best hope for humanity in a time where things are very very unpleasant

Also in his memories (from MoM I think) he talks about life in his village when his uncle killed his dad. Could be a lie, but seems legit.

Now, my theory: maybe the shamans were chaos cultists and the Emperor is actually mankind's attempt to create a god like the old eldars. That's why he travelled to the Warp and made pacts with the Ruinous Powers, and that's why they fear and hate him so much. Also knowing that the Emperor comes from chaos would really shake the beliefs of the Primarchs and the whole mankind on him, that's why he keep as a secret.

>being unworthy of worship

Then why wasn't the Emperor a lawyer or in advertising?

>‘If I’m interpreting the dreams of the dead right, then our father first set foot on Molech many centuries, or even millennia before the wars of Unity. He came in a starship that never returned to Earth, a starship I believe now forms the heart of the Dawn Citadel.’
>‘He did indeed,’ said Horus. ‘The Emperor needed a starship to reach Molech, but didn’t need it to get back. Whatever He found there made Him into a god, or as near as makes no difference.’
....
>‘You’re still here?’ said Horus without looking up, his voice little better than a parched whisper. ‘You waited for me... after all this time...’
‘Of course we waited,’ said Aximand. ‘You’ve only been gone moments.’
‘Moments...?’ said Horus, with a fragile, almost frantic edge to his words. ‘Then everything... everything’s still to be done.’
>Silver streaked the stubble upon his scalp, and the grooves at the corners of his eyes were deeper and more pronounced.
The face Aximand had devoted his life to serving was now that of an ancient warrior who had fought for longer than he could ever have imagined, who had seen too much horror and whose campaigning days had bled him dry.
>The many hurts he had suffered to win Molech had healed years ago it seemed. It was hard to be sure. His sons told him he’d only been gone moments, how could he tell them different?
Molech was a far distant memory to Horus now.
>He’d fought wars, slain monsters and defied gods in those moments. He’d wrested the power of those same gods at the heads of vast armies of daemons. He’d fought in battles that would rage unchecked for all eternity.
>He’d won a thousand kingdoms within the empyrean, billions of vassals to do with as he pleased, but he’d refused it. Every pleasure and prize was his for the taking, but he’d denied them all. He’d taken the power his father had taken, but he’d done so without deception.

The former. We see his past in Master of Mankind, and we also know he was doing godlike shit back when he was fucking up Void Dragon and similar.

>deal made with Chaos
>trusting a daemon to speak the truth

Could we use a tesseract vault to find soul fragments of him in the warp and bring them closer together, even if it is xenotech?

Yes, he shows Ra a memory of his supposed childhood. His uncle killed his dad, and the boy who would be the Emperor already had psyker abilities. He instantly "saw" what happened when he touched his dad's skull, and he killed his uncle by stopping his heart. The village seemed to know he was a 'psyker' and respected him for it.

I don't think it's so simple as "he has the Chaos Gods powers" or anything like that. His very nature as the Anathema to the Neverborn and Chaos is something pretty unique.

Alivia can't really be trusted here, because seeing "centuries carved into the face" is a lie. One of the Sisters of Silence looks straight at the Emperor (on the Golden Throne) in Master of Mankind, and flatly says that she doesn't see that, she sees a man on a throne, and that it's the throne that has finally carved the lines of age into an "ageless face".

It's also worth noting that in the new book, Russ's spear actually has a fragment of the Emperor's soul in it, and it counteracts whatever Horus had become to an extent.

Horus was being made super duper evil by whatever happened at Molech, and was basically being controlled by the power. He'd become so evil that his own men and brothers were terrified of him, and he loved killing off whole planets. When Russ stabs him it almost kills him, he loses a wee bit of his Chaos powers and the evil around his lessens a bit. His mental state returns to being a bit normal, and he acts kind of depressed and regretful - which Abby bitches at him about, but is still determined to confront/overthrow the Emperor of his own free will.

The powers he got on Molech were literally turning Horus into a different person.

Yep. Alivia too, is a unreliable narrator. Honestly though, I took more of what Alivia said to be a measure of how tired/wrecked he looked, rather than actual age.

A champion of Chaos that turned to the Law and whose goal is to destroy the Chaos Gods is very unique imo

Also I keep calling it Chaos and Law because I am an Elric faggot, what's the offical therm for the opposite of Chaos in 40k? Order?

>>He’d won a thousand kingdoms within the empyrean

I think that's what some of the missing primarchs are doing. Fighting in the Warp, but on the Emperor's side. The Emperor always said the real war in in the Warp.

Order. But it’s not exactly something that’s explored much in 40K. Most of what there is is from much older, proabably retconned stuff.

Gods are just gods. There’s plenty of them, or at least there were. Some are Warp Gods, some are godlike beings in the material universe, and some are things that aren’t really understood.

Newest Chaos Daemon codex suggests the gods had no reason to be concerned with the emperor or the primarchs until tzeentch saw something that would have lead to their downfall and that’s why they stole away the primarchs.

Well, he did summon Ferrus’ soul at the end of the War in the Webway.

Considering that one of them had their whole forte based around dealing with mental bullshit, I'm not sure. It could go either way.

They all wiped each other out while Empy hid in the corner

So that means they can be killed, us chaosfags are wrong I guess

Also he needed Ra to be possessed by ADB's super daemon so it is entirely possible the Big E spun a yarn to get Ra to hold out before becoming the sword of the Failure.

And yet Daemons call him the Anathema and are terrified of him. I doubt he was directly much of a threat to the Gods themselves, but indirectly was due to his plans with the Webway/human evolution. That would have been bad for Chaos.

Now, as he is in 40K, he’s proabbaly more of an actual player in the Great Game in the Warp and an actual threat directly. 10K years of sacrifice and worship are probably a helluva drug when it comes to making Warp Gods.

I like the Shamans origin myself, it especially makes more sense if you assume most of the Perpetuals are 'left over' Shaman who just decided to keep reincarnating, instead of taking part in the ritual that made them a gestalt entity.

The loyalty of the Sisters of Silence puts a lot of the accusations of malicious intent in doubt, since they were part of his inner circle and some of his most devoted servants, to the point where he was fine with them keeping secrets from the Custodes, even tough every last one of them was immune to his mental powers. Not to mention that more than a few of them would probably be able to get past the Custodes and kill him, if they wanted to.

The Sisters were immune to his glamours, but he could probably shitstomp them if he had to. Psykers like Malcador could pretty freely use their powers around them, and the Emperor is on another whole level. Didn’t seem like they bugged him in the Webway at all.

This. So my theory about him being an chaos champion turned to order is really shit, but if the Emperor made Tzeentch uneasy he must have a hell of a plan.

True, but at the same time, the Sisters don't seem to be following him out of fear, either. They're genuinely on his side.

40k is for edgy losers who wish they were nazis

We already know a bit about his plan, provided he was being honest with Ra.

Humanity was on the path to evolving into a race of psykers to an even greater extent than the Eldar. His goal was basically to use a firm hand to guide them through it, and hijack the Webway for all their travel needs.

Basically, he was guiding humanity down a path that would turn them all into pskyer ubermensch that used the Webway and would be immune to Chaos. Via the Great Work, he would starve the Gods.

>Comparing lawyers to marketingfags

I'm offended tbqh, at lease some lawyers do good things on occasion. Additionally, I would note that for all we know the Emperor actually was engaged in one or both of those careers at some point or another. After all, he supposedly controlled things from the shadows for millennia. He probably did some investment banking too :^)

So this is Magnus' fault then?

It has always been Magnus' fault. The Emprah could have done in Horus and Lorgar before shit got rolling if he hadn't had to pinch the daemon loaf off on the Golden Crapper.

Yep. “Magnus’ Folly” literally fucked over all of humanity. Had he not done what he did, the Imperial Webway would have proabbaly been okay, and the Emperor wouldn’t have had to spend the majority of the Heresy on the Throne.

The Emperor pretty much flat out says the loss of the Great Work means that even though the Imperium might survive, Humanity is inevitably doomed.

Yes.

Even if Horus had still betrayed the Emperor, as long as he had the Webway project in hand and functioning he had good odds of bouncing back. As it was, Magnus fucked it all up and prevented the Emperor from actually leaving the Throneroom on Terra. That's why he needed Magnus brought to him, so he could have Magnus sit on the throne while he fixed it.

The creative staff have already given us a far too direct look at the emperor and Primarchs, and at this point anything that serves to demystify and tone them down a bit can only be a good thing.

Yes, but if the Emprah had talked to Magnus about the webway or if he had send an more reasonable legion to capture Magnus instead of Leman "Leather Caps & Wood Shields" Russ and his furries maybe things had gone differently. But now is too late.

>even tough every last one of them was immune to his mental powers
Every last one of them would've believed themselves immune to His warpship. He was obscenely powerful though, so much so that using the vague Imperial measuring system does Him a great disservice. So some SoS might've believed themselves immune to His glamours (and thus uniquely privileged to witness and share a side of Him unknown to nearly all), some may have still been susceptible to it, and even then, there where untold wonders of tech from the DAoT He had access to to mold and sculpt the mind.

Whatever the case, the Emperor made it a point to present a front to nearly all, to project an image(both psychic and mundane) of what would get Him what He wanted and was never beyond lies and manipulations. Nothing mattered but His vision as a whole.

Or just disavow all that stupid bullshit and make it mysterious again

Wait so this Fanfic im reading about Horus beating his children in 40k has so very loose connection to cannon? thats actually really nice to know.

>Nice bait, heretic. Hope you enjoy sucking xeno/daemon dick, whatever your persuasion is.
>roleplaying

>loss of the Great Work means that even though the Imperium might survive, Humanity is inevitably doomed

Earth isn't the only planet with webway portals. Just move the throne to another planet.

I don't really think the Emperor could starve the Gods out of existence, because they're eternal. Not to mention that when one is born, they retcon the universe in a way that they've always existed. Or they do if that detail about Slaanesh is still canon. But I do think they could have been considerably weakened until they could no longer really be threats.

I mean, isn't that still technically possible? Granted, it would require Magnus to stop being a shitter, and it would require some crazy Dark Age stuff or psyker insanity to make the Emperor capable of moving again, but in THEORY...

I think he is Cain. He is ancient primordial man, empowered by the mark set upon him for the murder of his brother.

That is just one of his many names through the years.
He was also Conan and Jesus.

Also, yes, he is currently Tommy.

shaman backstory is stupid and makes no sense

only nostalgiafags defend it

Is he just chilling right now, or is he trying to somehow make humanity stronger by inuring them to incredibly bad movies?

earth is the center and the emperor sees no distinction between earth and humanity

as far as the emperor goes, the HH series has actually revealed less of him. They have kept his origins much more ambiguious than realm of chaos did and give contradicting backstories. He just sort of appears on Terra in M29 in the HH series, with no evidence of him having ever existed prior

That was the plan. He wanted to weaken them and block them out, and lessen humanity's reliance on the warp to the point where they were no longer a threat.

>The Emperor turned to him, His eyes focusing on the Custodian for the first time. ‘The war is over, Diocletian. Win or lose, Horus has damned us all. Mankind will share in his ignorance until the last man or woman draws the species’ last breath. The warp will forever be a cancer in the heart of all humans. The Imperium may last a hundred years, or a thousand, or ten thousand. But it will fall, Diocletian. It will fall. The shining path is lost to us. Now we rage against the dying of the light.’
>‘It cannot be this way.’ Diocletian stepped forwards, teeth clenched. ‘It cannot.’
>The Emperor tilted His head. ‘No? What then do you intend to do, Custodian? How will you – with your spear and your fury and your loyalty – pull fate itself from its repeating path?’
>We will kill Horus.’ Diocletian stared at his defeated monarch, illuminated in emberish light of the lumoglobe in his hand. ‘And after the war, we can begin anew. We can purge the webway. The Unifiers can rebuild all that was lost, even if it takes centuries. We will strike Horus down and–’
>I will face the Sixteenth,’ the Emperor interrupted, distracted once more by the machine graveyard. ‘But there will come another to take his place. I see that now. It is the way of things. The enemy will never abate. Another will come, one who will doubtless learn from Horus’ errors of faith and judgement.’
>‘Who, my king?’

Alivia Sureka herself passingly mentions that her memory is unreliable and she can't remember when or what certain events are anymore. She isn't sure why, maybe it's because she's so old, maybe it's because of the warp gate on molech fucking with her, maybe the Emperor did something.

BL is good at covering their tracks with regards to this

>The Emperor shook His head. ‘There is no way to know. And for now it is meaningless. But remember it well – we are not the only ones learning from this conflict. Our enemies grow wiser, as well.’
>Diocletian refused to concede. ‘You are the Emperor of Mankind. We will conquer any who come against us. After the war, we will rebuild under your guidance.’
>The Emperor stared at him. He spoke a question that wasn’t a question, one that brooked no answer.
>‘And what if I am gone, Diocletian.’
>The Custodian had no answer. Thunder pealed above them, shaking the cavern and jarring loose a rattling hail of falling pebble-dust.
>‘My king, what now? What comes next?’
>The Emperor turned away, walking into the darkness of the cavern while the storm hammered the dead city so far above. He spoke three words that no Custodian had ever heard Him speak before.
>‘I don’t know.’

>He just sort of appears on Terra in M29 in the HH series, with no evidence of him having ever existed prior
That is just wrong though. Vengeful Spirit, Mechanicum, and Master of Mankind give tidbits about stuff he was up to, some more truthful than others.

I can't imagine how much time it takes for a primarch's hair to start graying. Poor horus.

No.
Pretty much. The idea of 40k is to be a joke. A setting based on absurdity that it becomes comical.

The clue is in Drachynen, the daemon formed from mankind's first murder. Metaphysically it represents the death of kings, the destruction of society and order. But it has a special relationship with The Emperor.

Because the Emperor is the man who COMMITTED that first murder. The man who defied God for the sake of power. The man cursed to wander for eternity, immortal and untouchable

40k hasn't been primarily satrical/comedic since the mid-90s.

meh, the connection is pretty clearly that the Emperor represents the ultimate hope of humanity while Drach'nyen represents humanity's doom via self-destruction. So they're opposites

Rare pict of Drachynen taken before it's imprisonment

Really? I can't take the new books seriously. It all seems like a big joke

So, Ultrasmurfs=Ventrue?

arent you mature

Or perhaps the opposite, what if he showed Ra his past because he knew he'd sacrifice him to the EotfM. Getting to show someone His past with the certainty that it would remain secret, not that a Custodes would ever betray his confidence.

This is your brain on fascism

Wait, he did? I don't recall that.

no, this is

Both of those are incorrect.

No, he's the last of a dead race sent to Earth and has become it's champion.

>earth is the center

That's why you definitely don't put a portal on Earth, much less in the palace. Put it on the Moon, where Magnus popped out. Putting it in the palace is like putting a Stargate in the White House basement. That's just asking to be invaded.

>comparing the emperor to a filthy xenos
it's an abstract kind of heresy

I’d say that he was created by the old ones
And then he gained a fuckwad of power in the dark age of technology

Off topic but, is it within the power of an inquisitor to enlist anyone into their cause? For example, can an inquisitor "snipe" acolytes from another inquisitor, and whats to stop inquisitors from constantly "sniping" qualified acolytes from each other.

Not at all you dumb idiot. The first murder is an obvious reference to Abel and Cain, the Emperor was long after that. Hell, hid own "father" was killed by his uncle. How could he ever have commited the first murder in the first place?

No. Normally an inquisitor does not overstep in another's territory. However if one died it could happen that his retinue is enlisted by another. Likewise, some transfer members of their own retinue to colleagues because X.

I bet your really far left irl.

Evil Fascist, speciesists should really just acknowledge the freedom and justice of Chaos, #RightSideOfHistory #EndXenocide

Spoiler is NSFW

An Inquisitor's authority only goes as far as they are capable(or seeming capable) of enforcing it. The minute someone calls their bluff and they have no contingency or backup, is the minute they take a dirt/void nap.

An Inquisitor that thinks a pretty trinket alone can let him do or get away with anything is a dead Inquisitor.