/SWG/ - The Armored Menace

>overly cartoonized

Which has been much of the new Canon in design or in narrative, so that isn't really surprising.

>hi I don't understand stylization

*Newtonian physics your path*

Let me just flip my orientation on the same vector and have an easy shot at your tail while you bank through a turn

>while wedge and his pals would be the dream, they don't do escort duty well
>RED LEADER WE'RE UNDER ATTACK
Judging by the Rogue Squadron vidya, Team Antilles seems to be pretty good at the job (if you git gud, that is). Starfighters of Adumar also showed that they're pretty capable of handling themselves on the ground. Just don't ask Wedge, Wes, or Hobbie to actually do the talking.

Maarek Stele and Soontir M.F. Fel. It's the only way to be sure.

Hello, fellow Imperial anons of taste and refinement. Glad to be serving with you aboard that diplomatic mission.

You know, for a character who's sole purpose was to be Starkiller's love interest, Juno had a surprisingly fleshed-out backstory. Shame they had to waste it on The Farce Unleashed.

That'd look great for an Incom fighter.

I remember in the books that they HATED the escort jobs and had a lot of trouble staying alert (not sure if it was thrawn books or the actual RS books)

>Oh just call him Darth Icky

Based George

>h-help me...

Norra Wexley and Shara Bey

Target Lock Country

Starfuries are some of the best looking non-Star Wars fighters

>What, you don't like Darth Icky? What about Dark Insanius. In the membranius.
He was a wonderful sweet boy. And a good friend.

Yeah, seriously.

>Close to her mother, who died while she was growing up.
>Father was distant, always looked to try and impress him.
>Joined the Imperial Academy for a simple, "Good job, girl," but got nothing.
>Skilled enough to graduate surprisingly young.
>Abilities as a pilot caught the attention of Darth Vader, reassigned her to his personal fighter squadron.
>Got second thoughts when her and the rest of the squadron were essentially used to commit genocide.
>After that, requested a transfer. Became Starkiller's taxi driver.

And then was just exposition/obligatory love interest from there-on. Juno and Kota were wasted on TFU.

Reminder

I don't think it'd work around the time of the GCW, but it'd be really neat to use as a fighter for the Republic Judicial Forces sometime between the Ruusan Reformation and TPM.

quads of truth

You can be competent at stuff you hate, too. They also pulled off the Millennium Falsehood escort operation well enough.
>t. someone who got gud at X-Wing's Redemption mission and Rogue Leader's Ison Corridor escort but still hates both to this day

A predecessor to the Headhunter, maybe?

What source is this from?

It for sure feels like they gave her a story after her story was more or less locked in for TFU.

Please stop making me remember the redemption

Would this be a comfy smuggler ship?

>smuggling on anything other than a Wayfarer
y tho

The BEST looking one, of course, is the Avery AAF 212 Hornet.

>BRRRROTHER

I'd space trucker that, for sure.

>Let me just flip my orientation on the same vector and have an easy shot at your tail while you bank through a turn

so, a K-turn

Was Saber really the only tank the Republic had?

Also, how were these compared to AATs, Hailfires, Persuaders and the other Droid Tanks the CIS operated?

I think the only one the Fighter Tanks are outclassed by are the Super Tanks.

Actually, could a fighter tank prevail over a CIS Super Tank?

>Actually, could a fighter tank prevail over a CIS Super Tank?
If it can flank or catch the Super going downhill, probably. The Super doesn't appear to have 360-degree turret coverage and its design would also logically have poor main gun depression. If the Saber can get into a position to brawl, it would have little trouble running rings around the Super and chipping away at its shields and armor.

considering that the super tank took direct fire from artillery emplacements and kept going unfettered, I doubt the Saber would fare much better.

"Where the Proximans at?"

Sabers get me physically aroused.

So apparently this thing got canonized for the Solo movie as an "Imperial Arrestor Cruiser." Presumably some tractor-beam based pursuit ship. I never thought it was possible to repurpose Colin Cantwell's original Star Wars concept art into the franchise.

And I was right, it's fucking shit.

>AATs
Tough to say. Probably an even match if classic Battlefront is any indication.
>Hailfire
Large silhouette makes it easy to spot from a distance and its weapons appear to be fixed in a forward-facing position so it can't really take advantage of its speed to brawl and circle-strafe. It probably beats the Saber at a distance but loses in a close-range knife fight. It also can't really take advantage of hull-down positioning or cover because of the gigantic wheels. If the Saber knocks one of the wheels out, it's game over.
>Persuaders
Terrible design--poor maneuverability according to the Wook, no horizontal traverse on its weapons, gigantic target profile, and can't take advantage of cover or hull-down positioning since its guns aren't mounted very high on its hull. It's begging to be flanked. Easy 1v1 win for the Saber, I'd say.

It's a sight uglier than the AWACS Gozanti, but not the shittiest design. Very pulp/retro.

I think they can actually make it fit the imperial aesthetic on screen though.

And the plus side is, more minis! I wonder that the scale is?

Now how is the Hailfire a tank again?

That seems more like artillery.

It seems more like shoot and scoot MLRS

>Now how is the Hailfire a tank again
Writers mistakenly using the word "tank" as a catch-all term for any large, armed military vehicle.

My man. I don't think I would be this hard into scifi if it weren't for my comprehensive school's library and its collection of Cowley/Caldwell books.

Correctly use these could have been the CIS version of the Katyusha IMO, except also doubling with actual guided missiles.

If there were a way to quickly reload this, it could be quite the terror.

So is it me or would the Hammers have made a pretty good comic book series in Legends?

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Turak_IV

So far, just the brief synopsis of that battle already sounds more interesting than anything that happened on Ryloth or Jakku in Canon.

>Wayfarer
Not a YZ-775. Now the 775 may be hella expensive, but you can get around that by not being a pleb.

No freight pods, no deal.

Sadly yes, the AT-ACTs in Rogue One are explicitly weaker. Their armor is thinner and their legs are so long they need tensor fields to stay intact so sustained Ion M-60 to a joint WILL fuck them up.

Remember the Rebels version of the combat AT-AT took several strafing runs from the Ghost including some proton torpedoes.

...Then again some shitty spiders from Nu-Agamar (Yes they decided to use Hicksville's name for the Bendu's planet) also survived tons of fire from the Ghost.
I think you can pop each box off and load a fresh one.

They have saber tanks and I guess the light repulsorlift Ion/stun artillery pieces from the Zillow Beast arc can double as tanks.

Otherwise most of their Tank roles are filled by walkers or the A5 and A6 Juggernaughts.

Interesting to only give the rebels Clone stuff and classic freerunners plus technicals. I'd have expected at least a few AATs or HAGs in there too.

Help me with a theory /swg/.

I feel like the best outcome for the Galaxy is not the Empire reformed from the Republic by Palpatine, but the CIS turned into an empire by Sidious.

One of the major drawbacks of the Galactic Empire was its heavy reliance on slave labour, especially for things like constructing the Death Star. Not only would this cause a lot of resentment, it would be easily eclipsed in both efficiency and cost reduction by a properly maintained self replicating robot construction force. Droids have no life support needs, can work in the void of space, do not get tired, and can self replicate. Specialized construction bots would have been able to build the death stars far faster.

Also I feel like if brought to their maximum potential, droids really out did both clones and recruited soldiers. Again, the lack of a need for life support, the potential for self replication, upgradability and so on. The main reason the CIS lost was because Palpatine preordained it so by sabotaging it (as he did both sides) and he could have easily made the CIS the victor of the war, then taken the helm from there.

But the biggest thing I have is this. Remember the Vong Wars? How hundreds of trillions of people DIED in that war?
Remember how both the Empire and Republics strategy was basically "give as many galactic denizens guns as possible and send them at the Vong" because niether of them would even at least resort to cloning en masse?

Here me out, what if instead of sending the actual fucking people of the galaxy at the enemy, they just sent several times that number in droids against the Vong who absolutely hate robots? Chances are seeing a whole damn galaxy armed to the teeth with robots would just make them turn around and go after a different galaxy altogether.

>Nu-Agamar (Yes they decided to use Hicksville's name for the Bendu's planet)
It's Atollon you goof

Agamar was elsewhere, where the sepratists made their holdout

Keep in mind that Turak's battles may predate the advent of the AAT and HAG.

The Rebels in Legends also didn't rely too much on CIS surplus and mostly created their own weapons of war that were usually a mix of civilian and commercial vehicles made combat worthy, things scavenged from the Republic and things they could purchase and procure from people disgruntled with the Empire.

They did pretty good for themselves over all.

>Keep in mind that Turak's battles may predate the advent of the AAT and HAG.
The Star Wars databank added in Saber Tanks to the battle right there in the wookieepedia summary.

Lets talk about droids.

Any of you notice as the war/series progressed on the B1s became more sentient and comical? I kind of feel this was some sort of botched effort to make droids more "friendly" for hearts and minds efforts, and part of some overall plan to try and make them smarter, but I feel this ended up just making them even more incompetent.

Do you prefer the early mindless triggermen droids or the droids who make casual conversation and have actual emotions?

There are a few cases in the Clone Wars series where this actually worked well, like that one battle where you saw them going prone, taking cover and spreading out but this sort of example is extremely rare. Can you imagine if all B1s actually acted that way instead of just being fodder?

REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER

Star Wars: Commander

Oh cool

I miss when the droids took cover in TPM

>Halt.
>I'm ambassador to the Supreme Chancellor, I'm taking these people to Coruscant.
>Where are you taking them?
>...to Coruscant.
>Coruscant...uh...that doesn't compute...uh...wait...uh...you're under arrest!
yeah no comedy here no sir

The Vong were running on fumes getting to the GFFA and already burned down damn near their entire galaxy because two droid species were having a spat, seeing a new one filled with them would probably make them sperg the fuck out and attack even harder.

The Galactic Empire could've built a Droid Army three times the size of the CIS one, if it wanted. The Separatists were incapable of being formed into a united force. I get you might like their aesthetic, but its best you apply it to some other faction, like some Rebel splinter, because the CIS was a lost cause from the moment it was started. It was always preplanned for it to fall.

Star Wars needs some sexy combined arms hovertank action

>Do you prefer the early mindless triggermen droids

Best mass-produced battle droids coming through.

>It was always preplanned for it to fall.
But that was entirely because of Palpatine no?

Again, the premise is if Palpatine intentionally chose the CIS over the Republic. Remember that neither the CIS or the Republic would have had any military power without his manipulations. He could have swung in favor of the CIS, then done his massive reformations there.

Effectively it might end up just being the Empire but with robots eitherway.

>The Separatists were incapable of being formed into a united force
The Republic on its own was incapable of making itself a military to defend against the CIS. It was Palpatine who had to build an entire military for them.

That's just because they stopped having them all slaved to centralized computers after the Battle of Naboo illustrated a critical issue with that set-up where if you just took out the Droid Control Ships, the entire army shut down. Instead, the Trade Federation upgraded them with primitive independent intelligences which could help them to function without a master signal. However, this programming was kinda shitty because the Neimoidians didn't want to foot the bill for actual making the new B1s worth a shit and the Techo Union was hoarding the powerful droid brains for their newer shit like Commando Droids.

So now you've got basic clankers with semi-sapience that are used incredibly cheaply. This means that they rarely get the proper care that droids require in Star Wars as far as memory defragging and diagnostics caused issues with their speciality programming. So as the war went on, their cognitive modules became increasingly corrupt which led to behavioral anomolies and the chatty clankers we grew to know and love that are happy to offer verbal commentary on the situations they found themselves in as their corrupted and clogged cognitive modules struggled to process data.

It's a bit of Clone Wars fluff I really fucking love.

Yeah, though I do like the fact that it's actually explained in universe why they go from ineffectual robot soldiers to chirper jobbers that don't bother with cover or tactics beyond the average guardsman.

Biggs in X-Wing and Norra in ARC-170.

The CIS wasn't even really a government. It paid lip-service to democracy through some Parliament, but the true leaders were the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Banking Clan. Should the CIS 'win', then they'd just go back to competing over merchant disputes, nothing Sheev could do about it. There's no patriotism to keep the CIS going as there was with the Republic-converted-Empire.

You ought to just build an auxiliary Droid Army for the actual Empire.

>Meanwhile, at the Trade Federation Board of Directors.
>"All in favor of the proposed funding to develop an entirely new military operational programming module for the B1 series"
>. . .
>"Okay. . .all in favor of just putting in the surplus basic personality module for domestic droids we already have?"
>unanimous hand raising

I know this isn't exactly the right place to ask, but is it possible as the Jedi knight in TOR to have a romance with Kira if I refused her first offer to have sex? I otherwise chose almost all of the flirt options and kissed her.

More or less. Gotta love the Trade Federation being a bunch of cheap cunts that cut costs and corners whenever they can to try to streamline the bottom line. Honestly, the Trade Federation reminds me of the High Lords of Terra in all the best possible ways.

post X-Wing stories

>Flying Fat Han/Poe against Scum Aces (Fenn/Kimoglia Dalan/Thweek)
>Successfully arcdodge Kimoglia with Poe; lure Fenn and Thweek into a trap at the corner of the board
>kill them both in the same combat before they can retaliate, leaving Dalan alone

mfw

I find your lack of faith in the guy who orchestrated both sides of a galactic wall disturbing.

If anything, it would have been easier for Palpatine to take the helm of the Entire CIS than he did the Republic, explicitly because of a weaker parlimentary system and instead the CIS being in the hands of a few easily coerable (and mind controllable) individuals.

The first thing we see in the Phantom Menace is Sidous making the damn head of the Trade Federation cow tow to him, and he would use guy against the rest of the Trade Federations wishes time and again.

We literally saw in both Attack of the Clones and in Revenge of the Sith how all the leaders basically did whatever Dooku and Grievious told them to do.

Niether the CIS or the Republic could ever actually win the Clone Wars. In both cases, it was Palpatine who ultimately would win.

>There's no patriotism to keep the CIS going as there was with the Republic-converted-Empire.
Robot armies don't rely on patriotism.

The people making the droids do need patriotism and/or tons of money to keep doing it though.

As for Patriotism, remember that the CIS wouldn't even exist or have a sense of identity without Palpatine.

He was already creating an identity for them, you even had Dooku as their not!Robert e Lee. Palpatine was already the linchpin of their entire existence.

> and/or tons of money to keep doing it though.
And like the democracy of the republic, that will end up just become redundant by the time of the Empire as well. With proper work, an actual self sustainable robot force is well within reach of the technology and ability of star wars.

Even in the Empire Palpatine didn't even have to worry about money at all, he had like vaults scattered throughout the Galaxy with huge volumes of credits. The monetary strain of the Empire would have been more than that of a robot Empire.

Remember that Palpatine already effectively had control of the entire Droid army and the ability to shut it on and off at will, bar a few holdouts. He did the same with the Fett Clone Program to, phasing it out for other samples and basic recruitment.

The problem is that it makes less sense for Palps to back the CIS as a winner. Without the clones, there's no Order 66. The Jedi may take heavy losses, but far more of them escape to become a threat later down the line. Meanwhile, the CIS government has no legitimate claim: they were only supposed to be angling for their independence to begin with. Having them take over the galaxy would essentially breed instant rebellion (backed by those significant Jedi remnants, most likely). Also, Dooku was the supposed leader of the CIS but he's too big a threat to leave alive, so now Peeved Sheev has to rule as Sidious and hope that no one uncovers his duplicity for his entire reign.

Like said, the CIS was designed to fail. At best it was a backup plan in case the Republic commanders really fucked up, but Sidious gave the fall guy faction the army that could be remotely shut down for a reason.

>breed instant rebellion
Hell, most of the strongest CIS planets would immediately rebel since their entire purpose was "We don't wanna pay for the rest of the galaxy's shit."

I disagree that it was Palpatine. He certainly was for the corporate leaders, but the people and the senators didn't know about him, and mostly believed in Dooku and his fight against the corrupt Republic. It would be an interesting AU to have the Separatist "true believers" with a non-Sith Dooku at its head.

I'm not doubting that the CIS from what we've seen in the series was effectively designed to fail, if Palpatine wanted it to work it would have had to been very different starting from when we first see it.

>The Jedi may take heavy losses, but far more of them escape to become a threat later down the line.
Almost the entire council would have been massacred at the Arena without the timely effort of the Clones. But in the first place, the Jedi themselves were debating whether to actually intervene in any sort of war "keepers of the peace, not soldiers." No clone army for the republic might just spell no Jedi involvement at all, and by that time, giving Palps breathing room to come up with a similar strategy. Again, he already lured a vast majority of their veteran leaders into a single Arena.

>no one uncovers his duplicity for his entire reign.
Not as if that was a problem with the Empire either, I doubt any in the Empire ever would even consider he might have been some sort of shadow leader of the CIS. That'd be thought of as a conspiracy theory at best.

I find your lack of understanding of the genius of the guy who orchestrated both sides of a galactic wall disturbing.

Palps didn't just flip a coin and pick which side was going to win based on heads or tails. He chose the side that was best suited for it, the side that could most easily wipe out the Jedi, pacify the masses, and essentially stay in power long enough for him to solidify his rule. It's not a matter of how easily Palps could take over the CIS, he already owned them through his apprentice. It's a matter of how suited the CIS were to ruling the galaxy, and the answer is basically not at all. Palps didn't build them to rule, he built them to be the excuse he needed to rule.

You're absolutely right, the CIS would have had no identify without Palpatine. Unfortunately for you, the identity he built for them was "fall guy to create massive public scare so I can wipe out the Jedi and establish a Galactic Empire virtually unopposed."

The Republics entire purpose of existence was to preserve freedom and democracy, but that didn't stop Palpatine from effectively turning it on its head and establishing a Tyranny even worse than the CIS. He could have done the same for them as well.

Windu wasn't joking when he said "he has control of the senate and the courts".

Literally this. The CIS were pretty much designed as a faction that's basically a gigantic Reichstag Fire plot to allow him to seize power. In the ROTS novelization, even Dooku is shown as not really believing it anymore with the shtick Sheev sold to him being that Dooku would defect to the Republic and most atrocities would be pinned on guys like Grievous and Gunray.

We don't know how its like in New Canon but in legends, the Old Republic wasn't founded on democracy. It was founded on colonialism and imperialism. It was only with the Ruusan Reformation when it decentralized power, disbanded the military, etc. What Sheev was doing was bringing back the Republic to its conquering roots.

Speaking of the Old Republic provincial forces, were there any limits on what individual members/member states could have? I mean, if some polity decided that they wanted big fuck-off battleships instead of, say, pirate-hunting frigates, would a Jedi or some delegation arrive post-haste to say that those are verboten? There had to be polities who thought that there is no alternative to solid firepower.

>It's a matter of how suited the CIS were to ruling the galaxy, and the answer is basically not at all.
Not the CIS presented to us in the series, I will not disagree with that, because Palps explicitly designed it to fail and designed the Republic to win.

What I am saying however, is that it is entirely possible and within his ability to have done the converse. He could have manipulated it such that the Republic would have been doomed and the CIS was in a position to become his Empire.

Lets not forget that perhaps another reason for this was both that Palps was a human supremacist and disliked droids just as much as he disliked aliens, as well as he also wanted there to be more suffering and misery in the universe to feed the dark side of the force, which is easier achieved with stormtroopers.

--

But I think I have a better solution. Instead of giving the CIS droids and the Republic the Clones, what if Palpatine organized it the other way around? Manipulating the Republic to have stronger ties with droid manufacturers, while organizing separatist movements in connection with Kamino. Would that satisfy you? You'd have the basis of the Republic, but more easily set up for droid production from the get go.

>I mean, if some polity decided that they wanted big fuck-off battleships instead of, say, pirate-hunting frigates, would a Jedi or some delegation arrive post-haste to say that those are verboten? There had to be polities who thought that there is no alternative to solid firepower.
Nope, Kuat and other rich sectors had fuck-off multi-mile battleships, and lots of places had their own navies.

Considering that Kuat used the Mandator Star Dreadnought series to woo customers (and defend themselves and the core), I'd say the only thing stopping polities from acquiring a fuckoff huge ship is the size of their bank account.

Tarkin's dad literally had a private fuckhuge military that he called 'The Republic Navy' and led a faction that wanted to remilitarize the republic.

I bet it was on a basis of whoever had more sway in the Galactic Senate + whoever Palpatine wanted to.

I can see Kuat having its own actual fleet of battleships in addition to its massive defense network, because it was a strategically vital planet.

I'm betting Palpatine ended up slowly phasing out and weakening planetary defense forces and just supplanting them with Republic forces instead. Less local stuff, more Accalamators and Venators.

Ah, cheers. I was thinking this might be the case.

It seems part of the Judicial Forces' duties was to act in an UN inspection-like capacity, when the Tarkins were building themselves up as warlords of Eriadu they drew the ire of inspectors. That being said it also looks like the Core Worlds had a lot more leeway on that with Kuat having its own recreational Star Dreadnoughts.

>I'm not doubting that the CIS from what we've seen in the series was effectively designed to fail

The CIS was designed to fail for a reason, though. Palps didn't back them for the winning spot because it made no sense to do so.

>Almost the entire council would have been massacred at the Arena without the timely effort of the Clones.

The Council is almost inconsequential. Palpatine has a spy in the Jedi who can tell him all the Council Master assignments at any given time. Whats far more important is making sure that you don't miss thousands of Jedi that then scatter to the winds and start training new Jedi in secret. By wiping out 99.9% of the Jedi instead of just 80%, Palps achieves his Sithy goal right off the bat and sets it up so he can establish his Empire. Just beating the Republic and Jedi in a war gives them plenty of time to flee, go to ground, and regroup. As I said before, Order 66 was a stroke of pure genius that pretty much wiped out the Jedi as an Order, and it's would have been impossible to pull off if Sheev was backing the CIS to win.

>Not as if that was a problem with the Empire either, I doubt any in the Empire ever would even consider he might have been some sort of shadow leader of the CIS. That'd be thought of as a conspiracy theory at best.
Uh...let me put it to you this way:

Chancellor Palpatine becomes Emperor Palpatine. Darth Sideous, known by a very few CIS leaders, remains pretty much completely unknown. The very VERY few that discover that Sideous is Palpatine are dismissed as crazy conspiracy theorists, as you said.

Now, consider if Darth Sideous becomes Emperor Sideous. No one knows who the fuck this guy is("Where is Dooku?!" they wonder) or where he came from. Then one day a stiff breeze blows back his hood in the middle of a parade, or flash photography highlights just the wrong portion of his face at just the wrong time...and the whole galaxy stares in shock at the face of Chancellor Palpatine.

>The Republic Outland Regions Security Force, abbreviated ORSF and sometimes referred arrogantly as the Republic Navy by its members,[1] was a Planetary Security Force operating out of Eriadu in the Outer Rim Territories in the last decades of the Galactic Republic. The military force was established to reign in the lawless regions in the Outer Rim[8] and was formed by Governor-General Ranulph Tarkin of the Seswenna sector from the Seswenna Defense Forces and the Planetary Security Forces of neighboring sectors.[1]

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Outland_Regions_Security_Force

How was he such a Chad bros?

The problem with local Planetary Defense Forces on both sides seems to be that 'your experience may vary'.

In a lot of cases, they ended up as just cannon fodder and getting stomped on by Republic/CIS forces. In others, they actually became very important to the battle.

>Not the CIS presented to us in the series, I will not disagree with that, because Palps explicitly designed it to fail

The CIS weren't unsuited to ruling the galaxy because they were designed to fail, they were designed to fail because they were unsuited to ruling the galaxy.

>and the whole galaxy stares in shock at the face of Chancellor Palpatine.
Presuming in such a course of action he did end up deciding to become Chancelor, though admittedly that would be one of the most logical ways he'd need to pull the strings on the Republics side.

A part of me wondered if Palpatine really did end up melting his face against Windu, or if it was just him melting off his disguise and showing his true form. In any case, it would probably be trivial for him to undergo a chance of face, either through force magic or just sci-fi technology.