Aside from the Emprah himself...

>Ordo Chronos

What, they don't have analogue in the grimdark future?

It's his shtick. He claims to prove guilt of any suspect while the sand is still falling.

How often is he wrong?

High Lords of Terra, the Inquisition, you know, the guys who also "speak with the Emperor's voice."
So far as I know, the only "authority" the Custodes actually have is over the Imperial Palace and its security. Though that might have changed now that they're not a defensive army anymore.

>In theory, no.

Custodes power is not political. In Legacy they talked about how things signed by the Emperor or any of the primarchs were indisputable and could not be revoked by anyone but the person who signed them.

>Implying he's ever wrong
user, you ought to hide your heretical thoughts better than that.

How so?

Wasting the inquisition's time is a crime, so if he's innocent he hangs too

The Captain-General isn't a politician so the way the Imperium is ruled as a state isn't of his business. However, if he ultimately comes at the Senatus Imperialis and clearly says "X must die because they're a threat for the Emperor", you better approve the idea because X will die anyway. Custodes have no admiration or even respect for the Primarchs since the Heresy, Guilliman is in command because they allowed it and would probably kill him at the slightest show of disloyalty.

They can't revoke the Emperor's own edicts but in Watchers of the Throne they clearly consider the possibility of abolishing the law binding them to the Imperial Palace.

I'd say the High Lords (so long as it doesn't directly concern the Emperor) or any of the Primarchs. I mean fair enough the Custodes do have a lot of leverage but their main task is defending the emperor and that's where it ends. Unless it has to do with that they generally have no say in the Imperium's affairs.

Same would hapen is some custard would storm in to BA inner sanctum.
Thay have authority in Imperial Pallace/Terra, but on say Mars they are golden banana.

Bullshit. Do you really think their rank is null just because they're out of the palace? The arrival of an Adeptus Custodes would be cause for celebration, supplication, feasting, all that pomp and circumstance. And while they might not be able to throw their weight around quite as much, they would still be awarded the utmost fealty.

From Codex : Adeptus Custodes
>At times their Captain-General has stood amongst the High Lords of Terra. At others he has served as one of that council’s most powerful advisors. Either way, the Adeptus Custodes continue to exercise the full authority of the Magisterium Lex Ultima, marshalling the defences of Terra as they see fit and answering to no one but their silent master in matters of security, sanctity and strength.
I assume it depends how you interpret the "matters of security" part. Now that Custodes aren't bound to the Palace anymore and can organize preventive strikes as they see fit, I'm not even sure their authority has limits beyond their own approach of realpolitik.

Yeah, Rowboat met daddy and was made Regent/Lord Commander of the Imperium. He was a bit spooked by the meeting because the Emperor was more powerful than before and an even worse dad, who wasn’t even pretending to act human anymore.

Basically the three most powerful individuals in the Imperium right now are Girlyman, proabably the Fabricator-General, and Dante (who was pretty much put in charge of half the Imperium). Then the High Lords.

That said, the Custodes have absolute authority within the Imperial Palace, full stop. And they can act as emissaries to being commands from the Emperor to others, etc...

There’s two sub-groups of Custodes who can pretty much go around and act with impunity. One group acts as the Emperors own messengers, the other act as bodyguards for people deemed important by the Emperor. The latter includes protecting the individual from other Imperial agencies, though they ditch the VIP and leave them to their fate once they’re deemed no longer necessary.

They have. The Emperor pretty much told him that the Primarchs were made to be tools, not children, and Guillimann left shaken.

Aye, I should read that. Thanks for telling me.

Some of the more ballsy inquisitor lords might just be able to claim that - they are both "only answerable to the Emperor", but not anywhere near Terra.

Other ultimately senior members of Imperial organisations - Chapter Masters, Grandmasters of Titan Legions, Heads of Navigator Houses, Archmagi of Forgeworlds and so on can claim positional authority and might have more power in a given situation, but in terms of absolute authority, they're subordinate.

Guilliman, some of the High Lords and the Fabricator-General (and probably Cawl) also have a wider authority and the powerbase to back it up, but inside the Imperial Palace the Chief Custard would have the last say.

Valdor, if anything, was even more of a special case, as one of the Emperor's oldest companions, only Malcador had unquestionably more authority - though the Primarchs and especially the Warmaster could at least be considered his equal

Shame, I wonder how they'll resolve this in the HH series. Since, you know, Horus being his favoured son, comrade and friend is pretty much the reason the Emperor sits on the throne nowadays. It's why he held back, reluctant to actually kill Horus.
Guess he'll just obliterate Horus without a single thought, then gets murdered by Abaddon, while Sanguinius somehow dies in the process.

...

Whatever it is, it's going to be utter bullshit.

That is the old canon - you will never see that again.
It's all about selling the kiddies speshul snowflakes, now. Custodes armies are now a thing. As if grey knights weren't enuf.

One, yes that story is getting some form of re-write - there's a quote about the "old Bill King fluff" from BL's head - but the Emperor casting out all his compassion so he could kill Horus is likely to still be a part.

Two, it's worth noting that when Bobby G meets dad for the first time in ten millennia, well, you know how when Blue Boy woke up he wished he'd died rather than seen this Imperium he now had to deal with? Yeah, the Emperor had to watch the mess the imperium's become happen in real time. And Guilliman and his brothers were the cause of the failure. And also the reason he's spent the last ten thousand years in fairly significant agony stuck on the throne. So he's a bit cross when talking to him. Just a tad.

See, him having to cast out everything that held him back and him subsequently becoming an asshole after 10,000 years of suffering on the throne and seeing his Imperium go to shit is understandable.
But him being a selfish prick who's just in it for the power, who'd smite anyone of his tools just because of it, well that is fucking shit.

But, BL can't write for shit, so...

It'd be a reasonable, logical and canon-consistent way to do it.
I mean, I know relying on BL to not be shit is a big ask, but, you know...

...have faith, Word Bearer

Symbol of office.

>In the modern imperium: Guillimann.
Guilliman mentions that he has a bodyguard of Custodes that he can't get rid of because they'd refuse to go away if he told them he didn't want them. He can talk back to them and generally "put them in their place" but it's very much an "agreement" between them and him.

Not quite, as points out, the way the Imperium is ruled generally won't be anything they concern themselves with. But if a Custodes decides that one or more High Lords needs to die, they could walk into to the Senatorum, lop off said Lord's head, and nobody would dare say a word to the contrary.

Is the subtext supposed to be that his "bodyguard" are there to blam him if he tries to pull a Horus?

>if a Custodes decides
That's where you're wrong: custodes get away with shit ONLY because it is assumed they speak the Emprah's will. If they act on the emprah's behalf, then, yes, they get away with shit like this. If, as you put it, they simply decide 'on their own', then no one is gonna listen to their shit, desu.

>beyond their own approach of realpolitik.
Oddly enough, unlike the marines, both present and heresy-era, the Custodians are actually rather good at politics, and occasionally have to sneak into and deal with the imperium's byzantine and decadent nobility, especially on Terra (who, it must be remembered, are incredibly dangerous, both through their nature and through their armament) - which is by some reckonings the equal of any Death World in terms of dangers, and as corrupt, in every sense of the word, as hell.

A custodes never truly acts on his own will. Any "decision" one might make is merely an example of the divine voice of the Emperor

Well, I'd assume them being golden-clad supermen handcrafted by the Emperor himself plays a role in it too.

As you can see, custodes are bodyguards and have no power in the Imperium.
Like, at all.

>Is the subtext supposed to be that his "bodyguard" are there to blam him if he tries to pull a Horus?
It's both. They're both meant to protect the Emperor's currently most valuable tool, and serve as insurance.

Except that's wrong though. The Captain-General gets a lot of weight with the High Lords, and sometimes a seat. The Emissaries can pretty much tell anyone to do anything as their words are considered the Emperor's. The Aquilan Shield can tell the IG and Inquisition to sod off while protecting their charges.

They may not technically be a part of the organizational hierarchy, but when pretty much everyone accepts your authority and words as the Emperor's own, you have plenty of power. And literally nobody can tell them what to do other than the Emperor.

>subtext
>sub
It's text.

well, then, i guess yer super speshul snowflakes are tha bestest eva! yessirree. Nobody can tell them what to do, dey's hardcore yo!

Fucking fagets.

By that logic neither does the Inquisition. Power isn't awarded by who's lines go to who, it's by how many steps removed you are from the Emperor.

>By that logic neither does the Inquisition
You are correct! The Inquisition has no power over the Imperium - they do not rule it at all (save through their rep on the Senatorum Terra). They have no authority, either. They are investigators, bean counters, tallymen, and prison guards - they do NOT rule the Imperium.
Thanks for coming out.

>Direct link between the Emperor and the Adeptus Custodes
I don't know if this chart is official but that sole fact make them the equals of the High Lords of Terra if not their superiors.

I think some people misunderstand the nature of the Custodes' authority. The do not rule the Imperium daily as the High Lords or the Inquisition do, they do not give orders to the Administratum or the Fleet or the Ecclesiarchy. That's not their job to tell the other institutions how to do their own. That's why the authority of the Adeptus Custodes is basically irrelevant to the mundane management of the Imperium, because they usually don't give a fuck. They don't care about how many men Warmaster X needs for his next crusade, or if planet Randomus Beta XI paid the dime to the Ministorum. Actually, being worthy of the Ten Thousand's attention in public must be quite an impressive feat.

The thing is, the Custodes don't have an agenda of their own. If they eventually have one of sort, it will be the closest thing from the Emperor's own will in the eyes of other Imperials. The system works because Custodes never abuse of their official authority, they let the other institutions do their stuff so the Imperium can work as a society ruled by regular humans, and all the guys governing the Empire on a day-to-day basis know that. If Custodes ever interven, they will have a very good reason to do so and litterally nobody in the Imperium could claim the opposite, because the simple fact that they openly give a shit about your problems means something has fucked up (or will) so colossally the usual hierarchy of the Imperium isn't relevant anymore.

>custodes are perfection and must be obeyed and can never ever be defeated by anybody ever because I said so
ftfy

You're a literal nigger who didn't even read a word of what the guy said.

I sure did - then I fixed it for him. Now it's easier to read.
And go to bed, kid - it's late.

>but that sole fact make them the equals of the High Lords of Terra if not their superiors
erm, custodesfag: you do know the emprah set up the high lords to rule over ALL, right? That the Imperium is to be ruled by mankind, not mutantkind. That primarchs and space marines were designed to serve humanity, not vice versa.
Y-you've heard of the Heresy, h-haven't you user?

>custodes are perfection and must be obeyed and can never ever be defeated by anybody
That's litterally how the Imperium perceives the Custodian Guard. And by "litterally", I mean pics related.

That's nucanon, and nucanon is meaningless because they just keep making it up without any consistency. Meaning comes from consistency.

Kek - everything's Chaos now. Chaos won.

How are you this bad at irony?

And when Guilliman got back he blackbagged several of the more incompetent High Lords. None of them told a Primarch he couldn't do that, he just fucking did it.

When Vulkan showed up during the War of the Beast, the High Lords shut the fuck up because he told them to.

Shit, when even non-Primarch Astartes decide that enough's enough, you get the High Lords removed from office and new ones installed. (See: Drakan Vangorich or Goge Vandire).

You put far too much stock in the High Lords.

The Custodes do what they want. What they want is what the Emperor wants because of what they are, but that's part of it: if they decide that something is the Emperor's will they will do it and nobody from the High Lords on down will dare say otherwise.

All the bullshit you quoted came about in, what, the last three years? Yeah, kid: that's great. I'm glad you've tossed out 30 years of history for some hack's lame attempt to appeal to eight year olds.
But do tell us moar about your speshul plastic men and how tuff dey is....

>you do know the emprah set up the high lords to rule over ALL, right? That the Imperium is to be ruled by mankind
Did the High Lords ever claim to get their authority from "mankind" ? No. The only authority they have comes from the Emperor and as such the Emperor's will is the ultimate law in the Imperium. And for the rulers of the Imperium, the Custodes are still the embodiment of this will.
>b-but the High Lords and the Inqusition are too !
Correct but we have a fuckton of examples of High Lords or Inquisitors misusing their sacred authority for personal reasons when the Custodes simply don't. Never ever. Because no matter how intelligent and capable they are, they are autistically dutiful.

>Y-you've heard of the Heresy, h-haven't you user?
The Heresy happened precisely because some primarchs felt betrayed when they realized they were never meant to be the rulers of the Imperium. Custodes simply knew they were tools and never complained about that. The Emperor told them "you're my slaves but I need you" and it was good enough for their indoctrinated brain.

Maybe you misunderstood my post because we kind of agree on the type of "authority" the Custodian Guard possess. Custodes don't RULE the Imperium and will never because it is not their duty and their duty is the only thing they will ever give a shit about. BUT if this duty implies saying "fuck you" to the High Lords and the Inquisition, they will do it and people will probably be so terrified by such an exceptional event they won't argue about their motivations.

>as such the Emperor's will is the ultimate law in the Imperium
Emperor's Will is that the High Lords rule the Imperium. Not custodes.
Done and done.

The Custodes have always been in a unique place IoMs hierarchy. The High Lords rule over all, with a few exceptions due to the complexity of the Imperium. Now the High Lords can request the Custodes to do something sure, but they are under no obligation to. That is not nulore, it's also not nulore to acknowledge that the Captain General of the Custodes is technically a High Lord himself, it's just exceptionally rare for one to ever take their seat at the table, so to speak.

Now if you take issue with Guilliman exercising his power the way he did...that's just silly. The fact of the matter is he's a fucking primarch, sure you can say the The Emperor never wanted post-humans ruling over mankind, but a lot of shit has happened the Big E never wanted. He was made Regent of Terra and given The Emperors sword after being the first person confirmed to have spoken directly to The Emperor in a looooong time.

The Man.

Are you seriously this fucking stupid? The Custodes do not rule The Imperium, the High Lords do...but the High Lords do not rule over The Custodes, they guard The Throne and administer His will and the High Lords cannot change that.

They allow it because Guilliman is the one who built the current imperium and had ultimate command after the emperor first ascended to the throne

Something you newfags never seem to know about. This isn't the first time Guilliman has ruled the entire imperium

Emperor very deliberately made ranks ambiguious. Malcador, Valdor, and the Primarchs all were technically equals and regularly defied each other. This kept the Emperor's own status secured.

Today you have a similar deal.

>being this mad over logical hierarchies
user are you ok

seeand stop being wrong.

That user just seems to really hate the Custodes to the point of peak performance autism.

They allowed it because the Emperor wanted it to be that way.

The Custodes are literally just tools that follow the Emperor's will to the point of being automatons. Can they tell people to do shit? Sure. Will they? Only if the Emperor wants them to. They don't have power or authority - the Emperor does.

>Bobby G
>Blue Boy

Why not just call him Guilliman? You understand that this isn't dakka, no one is going to crucify you for liking Ultramarines here and no one is going to think you're cool for lambasting them.

Welcome, nufriend!

I thought Bobby G was a term of endearment

>Emperor's Will is that the High Lords rule the Imperium.
Sorry, I missed this part of the lore when the Emperor abdicated and basically stopped being... well you know, an emperor. Maybe he planned to do so before the Heresy but it never happened and nobody ever questioned his complete authority over Mankind. The High Lords are just the guys who rule in his name, if one day they decide to kill Big E or allow something to do so - intentionally or not - I doubt he will allow such a thing because "lol that was my will after all". That's the Custodes' job to get rid of hierarchy and shit when their master's life is in danger and in this regard we can say their authority is absolute. It isn't a problem however because the elites know the Adeptus Custodes don't seek to usurp their power; once the crisis is over there will be High Lords again and the Imperium will still be ruled my mere mortals.

I seriously don't understand why people have such a manichean vision of the Custodes' position within the hierarchy of the Imperium. Having absolute authority over the rest of mankind doesn't mean you must use it everytime the slightest decision must be made. That's the whole point of the Custodes, they are too stupidly loyal to even "abuse" their power when it could prove useful. It's just a last resort weapon they won't use unless they don't have the choice.

>Something you newfags never seem to know about
Implying you know other people's experience with the lore isn't a wise move user. You're incorrect anyway, it is stated multiple times that 40k Custodes don't trust the primarchs, not even Guilliman. But they won't let their enmity interfer if the Emperor decide to make Roboute his regent once again. He did so, good for Guilliman, but that's the only reason why they are serving him.

It is indeed, Bobby G is our nigga and anyone that doesn`t like it can go fuk themselves.

>custodesfags are the new greyknightfags
It'd be pathetic if we hadn't seen it all before.

> emprah set up the high lords to rule
Guilliman set up the high lords, and was originally the head high lord.

Wait, the emperor talks? What the fuck is this gay nu-40k?

He yells with his mind

He talks. Sorta. Literally a talking blowtorch if that makes sense.

docs.google.com/document/d/1D_lnzgLEe3taX24SodvfCSd2VGsHcIgwQpJ5jmIMuLs/edit

He sends visions to the Custodes in the form of dreams. Probably to other important actors across the Imperium too.

The only person we know he's actually "talked" with is Guilliman, and that was almost certainly like how he communicates from the Golden Throne in Master of Mankind - he can't actually talk physically, so he uses a dream-scape.

And like you see here it wasn't a friendly reunion. The Emperor is now even less of a person than he was before/is too tired to keep up the facade of letting people see/hear what they want, and addressed him like he would a tool being given a briefing.

>docs.google.com/document/d/1D_lnzgLEe3taX24SodvfCSd2VGsHcIgwQpJ5jmIMuLs/edit
wait wait wait, what book is that?

Is that from Gathering Storm? Pls if you have a pdf I would literally suck your dick for it

It's from Dark Imperium.

thanks bro, i am currently reading that, it must be later in the book than im currently at though

>The High Lords of Terra, of course he is one of them so he has equals.

warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

There is nine post that are permanent. Those are...

The Master of the Adeptus Administratum
The Representative of the Inquisition
The Ecclesiarch of the Adeptus Ministorum
The Fabricator-General of the Adeptus Mechanicus
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites
The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators
The Master of the Astronomican
The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum
The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica

There is three open seat among the High Lords, and some times the Captain-General has held a seat. But because it is not a permanent seat.

Basiclly the Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes has LESS authority in effect then any of the holders of the permanent seat. What the Adeptus Custodes can do on paper does not matter that much in the face of the Senatorum Imperialis. Speaking of which...

> Custodian could execute anybody in the Imperium
They could do that with out giving a reason to any save the a member of the Senatorum Imperialis. Why? That right and duty of policing Senatorum Imperialis given over to the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum by Constantin Valdor way back. Did Valdor have the right to give away a duty of the Adeptus Custodes that the emperor said was their job? Not likely. However does the current Captain-General have the right to gain-say the first Captain-General? Also not likely. The Answer to any gray area of who is in the right in the Imperium of Man at that level is settled by either open warfare or the high lords. I think we can guess what they think on the matter.

Chaos can't be allowed to win anymore.

Look what happened after Endtimes, now they have Nu-Sigmar and his Sue armies waging total war along with their alliance of sue and former allies of convenience in Destruction and Death still fighting Chaos too.

And in 40k they didn't even get to end the galaxy, and now have to face unending hordes of ever more sue and progressive Imperium factions with even better and shinier toys we haven't even seen in the Dark Age of Technology.

Chaos is target practice, Imperium keeps GW in the green and will one day extinguish the chaos edgelords in a sea of thousands of seperate Imperial Factions (a loyalist 10 year old fan's dream)

Enjoy your 15th edition where the trillion strong legions of Prime Custodian-Emperor clones play soccer with the heads of the former chaos gods.

You seem pretty bitter my son

Hello, newfag. The emperor has talked to that inquisitor in a book written in the 90's. This is nothing new.

I am, being a Chaosfag sucks when we are supposed to win in the Lore but the faggy good guys get all the cool shit.

>That right and duty of policing Senatorum Imperialis given over to the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum by Constantin Valdor way back.
Shouldn't this right be revoked after the Beheading?

It says "Captain General of the Adeptus Custodes" have a non-permanent seat, and I recon they get a seat when they want one

I mean Gork's Grin may just be the weather, but fluff wise the Imperium is sagging and Chaos is winning.

Death Guard got a lot of cool shit too! 1000sons kind of didn't though

...

What book does this happen in?