/mgw/ - Monster Girl Worldbuilding

He's not wrong.

I haven't been in the last couple threads are we still arguing about this shit?

Literally not what he said, though I do somewhat agree with those two statements.

A ton of men and woman have rape fantasies, either being the ones having it done to them or being the ones doing it.
Fuck off with your moralizing, nobody cares.

Just the same ol' shitposter who can't stand monster boy discussion (yet will bring it up and bitch and moan for hours about it, in a thread with like 5 people online at any one time.)

literally the first 100 posts or so from last thread

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP CRITICIZING MY FAPBAIT
When lore stops being complete fucking shit from a critical viewpoint these comments will stop.

That bit about the "okasu" translation actually makes sense. Damn it.

>Author of the MGE is biased against monsters
>Even though the work has been influenced by powerful monsters

Come on, I was joking.

thought it might have been finally ironed out to an agreeable point for most people by now.
would ya look at that. an entire thread on the subject and it's up for debate, damn.

Its hard to tell anymore

Reading comprehension, man. Go back over the articles.

>CRITICIZING

You aren't criticizing anything, you're being an annoying faggot. Nothing you're saying is helpful or constructive. Yes, user! Rape is bad, so is murder! Do you regularly shitpost on /v/ about how awful 99% of video games are for their violence against imaginary characters? Fuck off.

There are parts of the encyclopedia which directly mention Lilim and powerful monsters adding in their own propaganda. He also has to use a monstergirl to fend off other monsters, which he probably is dicking on the side to begin with.

>user posts about monster boys
>Majority of people go "No."
>user whines about nobody liking monster boys
>Now
>user is whining about the "same shitposter"

Keep projecting.

Nigger I'm criticizing the fucking author's backtracking once he realizes that people who aren't turbo otakus see the lore as kind of fucked up. Strawman me up I guess if you're that pissy about criticism.

>first post in the last thread of monster boys
>one post saying "monster girls and boys working together? interesting"
>one jackass saying >MONSTERBOYS with a smug reaction image
>one guy saying "i don't like monster boys, why would monster girls go after human men if they exist?" which gets a quick tactile response of "they can't mate with each other, need human men/women"
yeah man sure is a majority
a majority of 9 people in a thread where only one of them is saying "nooo" and kicking up a fuss about an issue that HE brought up

Why does it have to be backtracking?

Moonrunes are vague at the best of times, I don't see how "lost in translation" can't be a valid thing here

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP CRITICIZING MY CRITICISM

This is how annoying you are, fuck off.

>monsterboys
not event /jp/ wants them

Actually (ACHKSHUALLY) user, the author is complaining because MGU deliberately mistranslated and misinterpreted the writing. They talk about lizardgirls indiscriminately killing people and dryads trapping men in their trees when really like, that's both false AND goes against the real writings. That's why he wrote a C&D to MGU of sorts in that letter. "Either translate things the right way or I bring your edgy fanfic site down".

Then why haven't the pages been changed?
All you've done is tell people who have different opinions to fuck off, you goddamn annoyance.

They have, mate.
mgewiki.com/w/File:Lizardman_eng1.PNG
mgewiki.com/w/File:Lizardman_eng3.png
mgewiki.com/w/File:Dryad_eng1.PNG
mgewiki.com/w/File:Dryad_eng2.png

Notice how the first "revisions" seem like a complete butchering of the original intent.

The Lizardmen went from being rapists and murderers to fighters who try to assault warriors and get sex if they don't listen to them. The Dryads still have that tree part.

>from being rapists and murderers
>to fighters who try to assault warriors and get sex
Sounds like a MAJOR fucking improvement to me, as far as KC is concerned.

>The Dryads still have that tree part
And the original article made it look like a BAD END MGQ style, when in reality you basically have a giant communal pocket dimension tree space where you can bro out with other fellow dryadlovers in your hippie forest commune.

Are you gonna pretend that there's no change, despite context and intent being clear in the latter editions as per actual translators? If so, this is my last reply.

Well I mean if I have to get executed while sober or on oxycodone I'd probably choose the less painful route, since at least I'd be in bliss as I slipped into the abyss. They read still like happier bad ends. Does the hero save the kingdom? No, he gets stuck in a fucking tree fucking some wood spirit until he dies, forgetting about anything greater than himself. Does that fighter become a great general one day and forge an empire? Nope, he got sexually assaulted by some girl with scales so now he's a spermbank. Essentially you get turned into a living dildo and you didn't have to do anything to woo the girl over aside from have a dick. This turns the man into an object and robs him of his less animalistic natures which allowed civilization to flourish. You could have picked Yetis or Kobolds some race which actually try to impress or save men without immediately trying to get the dick. If the majority of monster girl articles were monsters which didn't use subversive or physical means to get husbands and actually tried to be fucking useful I'd be okay with the lore. Unfortunately that doesn't get the otaku dick hard.

>well actually KC is mad because MGU made edgy mistranslations on purpose for their edgy paladinfag posters and ruined the intent
>>then why aren't the pages changed?
>actually they are, here
>>still looks the same
>it's not and here's why
>>UM UM UM IT'S STILL A BAD END WITH A LOVING WIFE WHY NOT PICK A CUDDLY MONSTER GIRL INSTEAD OF
What are you BABBLING about? My word.

No reason you can't be a married general.

Have you given tribute to your local fae for good luck, bountiful harvest, and beautiful healthy babies? Donate today. Be the best village in the region

>forgetting about anything greater than himself

There is nothing greater than the self. Any sense of importance you feel for being loosely associated with a group is misplaced and is being used to manipulate you in spite of your unhappiness to further the position of someone who doesn't care about you. Religion, Politics, Culture. In a world where all needs and desires can easily be met these concepts are useless to man.

While your paladin/templars posting is also for losers who just want an excuse to murder and kill kill kill.

>a setting where everybody can fall in love regardless of worldly affairs
>says himself it wouldn't hold up to realistic integrity
>says corruption is just there because its a fetish
>says it is based on jrpg
it's almost like he knows exactly what he is doing and who he is pandering to. It's funny how people always bring up his arguments when he flatout states he just handwaves things to make everybody have a happyend. Honestly, a setting without bad ends and sadness is a joke, and I'd atleast prefer more realistic integrity than what's currently going on.

No, because my village's tribute goes to appeasing the dark gods whose servitors haunt the woods beyond and there are no fae here. They couldn't save us even if there were. All is lost. We are slaves in all but name.

You live a sad life.

Everything that you have, including the internet that you have to post on and the food in your belly is the product of people being more than themselves and working hard to provide the services that you enjoy. If everyone just decided to do as they please, the world would collapse, you would die, and everything you love would be gone.

>Honestly, a setting without bad ends and sadness is a joke, and I'd atleast prefer more realistic integrity than what's currently going on.
>this setting isn'd edgy enough for me

No, you wouldn't, because you'd be sustained by the Demon who slakes your desires and fulfills your needs. Man's use for society is not present in a world where such a possibility exists.

Can you blame him for being convinced that his efforts, the efforts of all men, mean nothing? He lives in a dying world. One that inches closer and closer to midnight despite the efforts of billions to survive. If madmen do not destroy his world, the cosmos will - ancient, massive volcanoes are beginning to stir weakly, vast interplanetary objects approach too closely to it for comfort, new plagues brew in the dark places of the world, and at any moment, a dying star might decide to take his world with it in a searing beam of radioactive hell.

The guillotine hangs over him, and everything he knows, every second. I do not blame him for thinking that the burdens placed on him by the living are onerous, as close to death as he is. Why should one set for execution be subject to hard labor mere seconds before he burns? Only oblivion or Hell can await him, and his time was spent before he was ever born.

So I guess this means its A-OKAY to worship, revere and bow down to Pharaoh girls and other desert monster girls?

Yes it's far lacking in edge if you were to interpret it in the spirit of KC. Edge is needed to give a story emotion, depth, conflict, drama, tragedy. If you have nothing to compare the lighthearted moments against it falls short and is honestly boring. There's a reason any setting has atleast that much, because it respects the "human" nature of anything sapient, and the reality of a world full of varying shades of gray.

well, so far we've talked about the pros, what cons would there be?

It's a sad world where you aren't anything worth while and have no desire to do anything but be a fuck doll.

It's hot as fuck and the sand will get absolutely everywhere.

Do you guys ever talk about the homebrew here? I've got some criticism I'd like to give about it.

Where was such a sentiment stated? The succubi are a means of moving up in the world. Removed from physical needs and the tyranny of the masses approval, man's individual genius has room to flourish unchallenged.

Na we've just been getting into Hedonist vs Altruist philosophical debates. Shoot your critiques and have people tell you your a fag and then you can call them a fag back and it'll be up to the 2 or 3 anons actually making homebrews to decide which of you was right.

By all means, constructive criticism is good.

The reason the guy in the pic is so resistant is that said succubus is both an Alp and his former tutor at the church who was in his late 60's before alping.

>there's sand everywhere

Meh it's okay. Not everyone here is Anakin Skywalker.

You fool, the more sand the more Anakins are created.

That tutor is finally a free woman as he always dreamed and that man is restricted by the cage society has put on him by telling him what is "normal". One is happy and the other is in pain because of their choices.

Nah, slay them all. Sandworms, especially. Useless cunts don't even generate spice.

>where you aren't anything worthwhile
>implying this is any different from regular existence

We don't remember the name of the first person to invent the canoe, or the bow and arrow, or the axe.

For the record, I think monsterboys are cuter than monstergirls. Monstergirls are for a quick fuck n chuck while the boys are wife material.

>wife material
More like bro material.

I think I read a doujin like that once.

>t.paladin fag

Or well, since this is on the topic of desert regions

>t. Jihad nigger

Only if they really hate vampires.

Well for a start you're living in an absolute monarchy - these rulers believe they are divine, and as such their word is law. You have absolutely no say in how things would be run.
You're also going to be treated like a second class citizen - you are to be ruled over, nothing more. That means that moving up the social ladder is going to be exceptionally rare and exceptionally difficult and be systemically stacked against you, if it's even possible.

>You have absolutely no say in how things would be run.
Literally the exact same as our over saturated democracies

>You're also going to be treated like a second class citizen
Outside of the ruling and scribe caste this wasn't really the case.

Nah, I'm gonna shack up with an Apophis and then go tag team the Pharaoh, fucking her highness pregnant while my wife destroys that monarch's anus with her tail. Then laugh about it in the afterglow of her kingdom collapsing to pleasure.

So besides living in a desert that is quickly turning into a jungle, what changed?

Hey, I never said things were better elsewhere, just that it was a con.

>Outside of the ruling and scribe caste this wasn't the case
... According to what? If we're building a civ then you can't say I'm "incorrect" because there's nothing to source, you'd need to make an argument as to why you believe what I've said shouldn't be the case.

Looks like a wife to me, fampaitchi

>wanting your pharaoh to abdicate her responsibilities of state

The caste system wasn't as rigid as those found in India. Wealth of the area and a thriving artisan/mercantile middle class in ancient Egypt allowed the children of farmers to move upwards by adopting a trade. Enrollment as a soldier during wartime also allowed upwards ascent.

Alright, this is all free-written so you'll have to bear with me.

I want to lead with the good first. I think that the current attribute/dice pool/combat system could be taken places. I haven't run across the specific attribute-damage mechanics before, so the novelty of it kept me engaged in an otherwise painfully empty system.

Everything in the system is offloaded onto the GM. What items/features/skills/specializations/modifiers are, PC descriptions in combat due to exclusion of any sort of movement system (even one that you could easily rip off from Fate, as you did with Items (Why did you choose a word that means a physical object for physical and abstract things, exactly?) which are essentially just Aspects from Fate), and a bare-bones guideline for target numbers with no inclusion of probability at all (which I will get into shortly). There's also just a plain lack of mechanics to actually contend with, and those mechanics that do exist are painfully generic. An item's statline is exclusively Attribute > Attribute/Attribute, which is so freeform as to excuse anything (and this part of the system, along with offloading the creation of everything onto the GM, will be ripe for player argumentation).

Assuming that a character has an item and nothing else assisting them, against an average enemy combatant with only 2d6 to their name, we see a hilariously stark contrast that you always see in cumulative opposed dice pool systems; here is my anydice link: anydice.com/program/ed8b

Notice that you dramatically shift from missing most of the time to hitting over 3/4ths of the time just by having a single die higher than the enemy combatant. This isn't necessarily bad, per se, but it means that being outmatched can quickly spell defeat, and needs to be put up in big bold letters how this game plays to prospective GMs and players. More on health in a bit, I've run out of characters.

>Honestly, a setting without bad ends and sadness is a joke, and I'd atleast prefer more realistic integrity than what's currently going on.

Exactly my thoughts and why I liked the setting better before he added in the lore. You need some dark to go with the light to make everything worthwhile and trying to force a happy ending with no thought into it just makes things sound worse

>We don't remember the name of the first person to invent the canoe, or the bow and arrow, or the axe.

And I bet you don't know the person who invented the internet,T.V or Phone user, but that does not change that they were created

So, health. You can take a maximum number of attributes reduced to zero equal to your level. Level 1 characters can survive two hits at most, while level 2 can survive four, etc.; this is a neat mechanic, but it needs to go through several more iterations before it becomes playable. As-is, you're recalculating your DEF stat (independent for each attribute, might I add, making it an absolute nightmare for a lightweight (featherweight, really) system like this) every time you take a hit. You're also dealing with pools that can become very large very fast if a PC or enemy's lowest attribute becomes 3, or god forbid a 4. You can also run into the opposite issue should they ever become a 1.

There was something else that I found while reading... right, corruption mechanics, arguably the most important part of the system, are given a very handwavey once-over with a couple numbers thrown up and referring to more handwavey mechanics in the form of features. Features that don't actually have build guidelines. Features, modifications, and specializations all lack any form of coherent system to build them yourself beyond eyeballing, and the current options aren't balanced at all. Compare options like Riposte and Second Shot to options like Double Attack; the former two are clearly better, and Riposte RAW lets you attack anyone (because there's no movement system), not exclusively whoever attacked you.

There's also all sorts of little errors ("Unlike items, they [Features] upgrade one dice (sic) to a d10 instead of a d6 (sic)") or omissions (Attributes are never explained, allowing me to use Don't EXist (DEX) for everything from survival to winning court cases), which aren't great but aren't deal-breakers. They just need a round of errata.

Overall, the system is just too lightweight (items, skills, etc.) and simultaneously too crunchy (combat) while focusing depth on the wrong things (combat). It reads like a D&Drone's first homebrew after hearing about Fate. End.

The internet was a group project derived from ARPANet, the television was a man by the last name of Farnsworth (though I forget his first name, I have always suspected that the professor from Futurama was named after him), and the telephone is attributed to Alexander Garham Bell, but that claim was disputed during his lifetime (by a man whose name I also forget).

And those things being created doesn't change the fact that their creators are dead and gone, and will never know the impact of their inventions due to having ceased to be, nor does it change the fact that there will someday, perhaps even VERY soon, be no one LEFT to use their inventions.

>And those things being created doesn't change the fact that their creators are dead and gone, and will never know the impact of their inventions due to having ceased to be, nor does it change the fact that there will someday, perhaps even VERY soon, be no one LEFT to use their inventions.

The creators maybe dead but their inventions and contribution to humanity are well and duly noted It was better that they were created and used if only for a year than to never been made at all.

>Life is a meaningless spiral of nothingness because who even invented canoes? Therefore, I deserve a monstergirl waifu.

I wasn't though. The internet is being used to pull at the strings of society and radicalize people to opposite ends of political spectrum. Children don't know how to properly interact with others due to over stimulation and parents not interacting with them appropiatley. Those things are a blight on man.

Thank you for your feedback!
What would be your suggestions for how to improve the system based upon those complaints? Do you think there's something workable as is or that it might be better to keep some concepts and ideas and start over?

From what I can discern the overall problems you have with the system are:
- It needs to actually focus down and be more mechanically complex on various issues
- It needs to have further focus on elements beside combat
- It needs to have more things set in stone and less decided by the GM
- Corruption/Monsterisation mechanics need further fleshing out as it's a key part or draw of the system

Along with the pdf needing tidying up and errata in general - I take responsibility for those mistakes, I wrote the thing, and already have notes on omissions to be included and mistakes to be amended, (like adding a contents page, for example.)

>Reposting.
The monstergirls seem to not have any negative views of rape (which is defined in this context as forcing sexual intercourse on another), considering it to be a courtship ritual. Some monstergirls such as Cockatrices even have a sexual strategy where they entice men to rape them instead of forcing themselves on men, but in the case where a male rapes a monster that doesn't use this strategy, the monster will accept his lust.

It stands to reason that in monstergirl society, rape isn't considered particularly negative, which creates the cultural clash with human societies, especially since monsters need to mate with humans to reproduce. Monsters will try to court whoever they rape, either before or after the act. It's likely that monsters only consider the act of rape negative if the rapist doesn't try to court the victim after the act, the rapist is married (since that's cheating) or the victim is married and the rapist is unwilling to share. To them, rape is an expression of love and courtship.

And when the universe blinks, it will be as if they were never made. Not a trace of evidence will remain that they existed.

Only eternity ensures relevance. The greatest accomplishment one could ever make is to create a thing, no matter how useless, that lasted forever, on past the dying of all other things.

No one said I deserved anything. Only that has an understandable desire in the face of all of this.

And it is also used as an absolute space of free speech where every culture and opinion is represented, spreading information and knowledge at incredible speeds regardless of the person using it. You can say modern science invented the nuclear missile, but it also invented modern medicine, entertainment and ideals.
Today, we have the knowledge of what it was like back then, and if society wished for it, they could move back. And yet, they don't, because the majority of society has far less radical views than how it used to be, and that's for the better.

Did literally ANYBODY respond positively to you the first time you posted this?
Why are you bringing up the rape thing now? Why do this?

Consider this user, for all the harm it's done it can also be used for a lot of good such as medicine information and studies. You do not blame the tool, you blame the user dynamite was created to help save people from cave ins but was used for evil instead.

And since men become monsters (incubi) after the rape, they then become okay with it having adopted a "monstrous" mindset. Therefore, the "rape" has no victims and is thus not a crime!

Whoa user, that's pretty clever!

I mean, I think it's a fair post.

But apparently I'm one of the """"enemy"""" of this thread that thinks that rape is the wrong word for what the monstergirls do in MGE. It's pointless to talk about, though. Too many anons have a serious hateboner for the encyclopedia.

>To them, rape is an expression of love and courtship.
>Ooga Booga where dem human mens at
>Gibs me dat
>dats my culture
>Poor little human boy

etc etc

>What would be your suggestions for how to improve the system based upon those complaints?
I've never fucked with dice pools much as I'm not a fan of their probabilities for the types of games I run, since I enjoy players having a reasonable chance at succeeding against foes stronger than them and not being able to curbstomp foes weaker than them. I suggest attempting some sort of point-buy system for features, items, and specializations.

>Do you think there's something workable as is or that it might be better to keep some concepts and ideas and start over?
Corruption should be turned into straight-up % so I can say I'm going 200% monster. Also, it's monsterization, with a z. This is an American image board. Attribute-based combat with weapons/words using a single attribute and attacking two is a good base, but you need to heavily consider the probabilities and make it so that it isn't so crunchy to recalculate DEF scores every time somebody takes a hit. A hammer being virtually identical to a sword and a machete floats some people's boats, so I won't comment on that, but the DEF values really fly in the face of being a lightweight, smooth gaming experience.

>- It needs to actually focus down and be more mechanically complex on various issues
It needs depth where appropriate (PC traits, corruption) and more thought given to depth where it currently is (combat).

Rest of that is spot-on, yes. I expect you'll go through half a year of playtesting before this gets sorted out, so I'll check back around then.

So if it's pointless to talk about why bring it up?

>Only eternity ensures relevance. The greatest accomplishment one could ever make is to create a thing, no matter how useless, that lasted forever, on past the dying of all other things.

But wouldn't that be pointless since no one will know the creators name or accomplishments as you just said?

I'm a different user, user

He wants to defend his waifu

>And it is also used as an absolute space of free speech where every culture and opinion is represented, spreading information and knowledge at incredible speeds
No people fall into echo chambers that reflect their opinions and mock those who disagree with them and those who think exactly like them. Modern medicine doesn't mean shit when we wipe out all life with a nuclear winter.

None ofNone ofNone it makes sense, but that is the rererealirealityty we exist in so brieflylfeirbriefly.

A truly immortal person would make everything relevant. Everything would matter then. That's even more impossible than an eternal thing, isn't it?

>use a Z, board is American
I'll use English (Traditional) rather than English (Simplified) on my Japanese-owned Mongolian pottery forum if I want, dammit.

>Don't have to recalculate DEF every time somebody takes a hit
Would you suggest a static DEF based on the characters full attributes, then?

>Corruption should be percentile
Why though? Maybe it's just me but I'd be autistic enough to only have it go up in increments of 5's and 10's, at which point it's functionally the same - 2.0 is twice as Monster-y as the average Monster, and an increase of 0.1 is the same as an increase of 10%.

>PC traits
May I ask for suggestions on further depth in this area?

>A point buy system and attributes in general
Do you think an issue is simply that there's too big of a difference in a single dice for an attribute? How would one address this if so?