What's the justification for things such as hand canons not existing in your setting...

Because it's not a medieval setting and hand cannons are far too primitive.

The campaign happens in the time before they're invented.

They do, and better things too. And they are quite common in the country that produces them. They are just stingy about sharing them to other areas.

Just not where this guy's wizards live. Plus who wants to carry explosives when a literal cantrip is "Set untended flammable thing on fire".

Why do you keep making gun threads every day?

>Have hand canons in setting
>They're so expensive and time consuming to create
>They do about a fireballs worth of damage
>A wand is easier and more effective to mass produce.

Doesn't help that Magic Dragoons ( the literal Dragoon ) basically made all gunpowder obsolete.

Because guns are the only type of weapon anyone should be allowed to use

Guns are possibly the most boring invention mankind has ever created.

>t. soyboy

>It's Soy to find "Metal tube with explosive chemicals in one end and a bullet to fly out of in various sizes" boring.

Guns are boring. Like bows and Javalins and other missiles, they're all extremely dull to play out in scenarios.

The closest I ever saw to actual fun Gunplay was Max Payne.

I don't see how projectile weapons that run off of directed explosions is "boring" especially early ones that were literal shit, compared to more refined crossbows and standard bows. I'm pretty sure the only reason they GOT developed this far was ease of use and being metal as fuck.

But you are allowed an opinion.

>muh cynematic!
neck yourself!

All projectile weapons are boring though.

Gunpowder is shit, everyone knows the best settings are magical rifles using strips of enchanted metal that propel the round like some sort of medieval railgun.

>Everything must be boring and practical

What is the point of the fantasy part then?

Even westerns are effectively more boring knock-offs of previous Swashbuckling stories and ideas.

Fair enough, I hadn't refreshed fast enough.

>"It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it."
-Terry Prattchett
At this point my justification for doing just about anything(including excluding something) that I like is that an user on Veeky Forums is absolutely fuming because I'm doing it.

yet every other mean of war mankind invented was shortly after declared inhumane and unacceptable - chemical, biological, nuclear, psychological - its as if war was meant to remain boring.

All of those are simply the same flavor of flinging a nondescript projectile at the target and having them die.

War has no basis in Fantasy outside of maybe happening in between the feats of daring.

They are the equalizer, the death of personal ability and power. The warlord who felled hundreds of men singlehandedly and is seen as a monster on the battlefield? One bullet fired by any random no-name fucker can end them all the same. No contest of might, no battle of skill and ability, nothing. The definition an anticlimax.

Just as it should be
only manbabies think otherwise

That doesn't sound like an effective base for Fantasy, especially Fantasy games composed of parties venturing forth to commit contests of might and battles of skill.

You sound like a communist, hating the Individualism that Fantasy brings.

>muh speshul snowflake
you fags are ruining Veeky Forums

>I want my PCs to be John McRedshirt
Go back to Codblops

realism is a flaw. games and fantasy are all about being better than reality.

>Individualism is seen as a negative trait
>On a board born out of hobbies based entirely around individualism.

Communism provides no artistic merit, no entertainment.

Why are you even here in your literal Antithesis?

Because magic, but not in the normal way.

In my setting, magic is something anyone can learn, if they have the money. The rich and famous generally get some measure of training just as a matter of course, to be able to show off to their peers.

It takes a certain level of thought to simply come up with the idea of a gun, if one doesn't already have it from a lifetime of growing up in a world with them like you or I did. An explosion that doesn't hurt you, held in your hand, that manages to hit someone well outside of bow-range isn't the most intuitive of concepts, especially for lower-class people who have no idea how a lot of engineering works.

Those in charge simply have no need of any such thing, and no need to mass-produce them. Anyone with the power to create a revolution like that has other means to do so to benefit themselves. There are hand cannons that exist, yes. They're rare, and rather primitive for such things, and are seen as mechanical curiosities, like one would view a merry-go-round or a player piano.

>realism is a flaw
When it comes at a cost of excessive complexity, it is. On its own it doesn't have to be. Not every game is D&D.

name a single game where realism increases the entertainment value of the premise.

Because gunpowder does something completely different in my setting. It does not explode, and therefore can't be used in guns. Instead, it turns into a boiling hot, lava-like substance. Regardless, it's used frequently because it's priceless for starting fires and is one of the best things to drop from a murderhole, and some people throw small balls of the stuff wrapped in paper that they light on fire so they can cover an area with lava, like if it were caltrops.

But you're right, technology does progress. I shit like have pic related instead.

They don't offer any advantage over a railgun or free electron laser.

>BUT MUH TEST OF STRENGTH MUH ROMANTISICSMSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Time moves on, the orcs will be crushed by the might of innovation, the dragons will be driven to extinction as they're shot out of the sky. And mages will answer for their oppression of non-magic users by the might of gunpowder. Adapt or die.

Well, Harmonde us a high fantasy setting about art. To the extent that science isn't much if a thing beyond things that have artisanal value (like smiting). So I'm going to provide two possible explanations:

There is no choal or choal like substance abundant enough to make black powder (possibly because the universe of Agone isn't anywhere close to as old as earth, and there may not have been enough fossilized material to make it, or perhaps the nature of the world is such that there are no fossils, the world is described as being made literally being made from sculpture, painting, poetry, and music, as governed by the 4 Muses),
or magic is just so powerful on its own that people in a position to research things that would lead to gunpowder wound up only studying magic instead.

As opposed to slashing or poking at a target with a nondescript piece of metal on a stick and having them die? If you want to you can make any weapon boring. Because weapons aren't what make fantasy fantastic or not. It's deeds of greatness and important figures that do that.

Also if that's what you boil chemical weapons down too, how could magic be any fun? Chemical weapons drowned people in a hazy yellowish ocean of burning death. Nuclear weapons literally made a giant cloud of fire, burned people into shadows on the wall with a flash, knocked over buildings and trees with a gust of devastating wind and debris and made people's bodies fall apart with what is the irl equivalent of magical backlash. Biological weapons are not too different from laying a curse on your foes. Lot's of magic spells usually used in games are way toned down or partial elements of these.

There's no reason any of these can't appear in fantasy: lotr has a good number of ptsd moments where you just know the Somme was somewhere on Tolkien's mind, why not have moments that would induce that kind of sense in the characters too? It'd set the tone for sure, and not everyone wants that tone. That's the only reason to avoid them. Firearms don't even change the tone. Like you said they're not too different from the other ranged weapons we allow.

I swear nobody realizes that there's a difference between old and new firearms. Fucking shoulder held mini cannons aren't going to have a good chance at hitting the warlord. Also why wouldn't one arrow from a no name fucker kill him? that's right this is fantasy and weapons are often less lethal for some reason just to prop these kinda guys up. Why are firearms immune to that? Just fucking nerf them like everything else.

It took centuries of technological refinement before the firearm became what you're talking about in any consistent manner.

Or we can just ignore it, like the vast majority of fantasy settings have because it isn't fun or interesting. Really, what is even the point of a fantasy setting when you just turn it into a modern setting filled with mundanity and no fantasy anyway?

>firearms defined modern times

Melee weapons are romanticized for a reason. Skill of Arms and strength of arm are factors to take into account.

Your post outlines why Firearms and missile weapons in general are banal and utterly counter to Fantasy.

Are you telling me there's no skill in archery or marksmanship? Man where do you get this shit.

There were entire schools in almost every major civilizations that were focused entirely on techniques of swordsmanship.

The only Schools with shooting involved are American.

Not compared to Melee combat no.

>implying the orcs won't burn the old world in the fires of industry

I missed with the first reply, but you, are funny guy.

Brits were all about that rifle marksmanship, at least in the period between their troops getting wrecked by Boer marksmen and the takeover by progressives.

It hasn't progressed that far yet.

Rifle Discipline of the British army took substantially less effort than the Discipline of the English Longbowmen, and even less substantially less effort than the Knights training.

Shooting a gun is not hard, that's the point of a gun.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wg0OQAa2A

That's Japan though, they make schools for everything because they have Autism.

Your picture proves why a School for Marksmanship is hilariously pointless.

>An explosion that doesn't hurt you, held in your hand, that manages to hit someone well outside of bow-range isn't the most intuitive of concepts...
Do they know what a cannon is? It isnt such a stretch to think of "Cannon but smaller so I can use it on the go" if they do.
As for the engineering, well yeah its gonna take a bit.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've read today and I follow closely politics.

It's not really all that farfetched in the short term. One good demonstration in front of an overeager authority (King, general, quartermaster, etc) combined with one rainy battle could possibly lead to that. Someone will try again and be more successful eventually.

Mostly the prevalence of magic. Learning magic nets you the same kind of effect as a hand cannon in addition to a litany of other spells with lots of different utility options and the potential to scale far beyond what a hand cannon could do. Now, that's not to say that someone, somewhere hasn't invented the hand cannon. The point is that it didn't get picked up quite as much because it simply because it'd usually be more cost-effective and easy to pitch to the local ruler or financier to just train them up as mages of some kind, or buy some magical bows because it's easier to enchant arrows due to surface area. There's a lot of weird places where technology and magic intersect, but guns happens to be one where they don't mesh quite as effectively with the current level of technology/magic on both ends. Maybe in the future with more nuanced or automatic enchantments, or different technologies in firearms production, will the gun become in vogue.

Because of this however, guns and the like are often rare, potent artifacts made by crazy people who pulled a Babbage and just kept working on them ad-infinitum until their death or the province of eccentric orders who are certain of their potential. There's not a lot of cultural or technological cross-pollination between these however due to isolation, so the tech level and advancements for firearms and the like are all over the place.

lmao what? Are you retarded?

Well this whole thing seems kind of pointless. Fantasy characters aren't necessarily cool because they do things in the most training intensive way possible.

It's because the shit they're accomplishing is cool. It's why samurai movies and old westerns aren't too different and westerns aren't inherently more boring because nobody is practicing a particular technique and are instead just doing what their pa taught them or whatever. Heroes are heroes whatever weapon you put in their hand.

>Technology progresses Veeky Forums it's a simple fact.
It's not obvious that this happens. Make history cyclical enough, have a strong ISIS barbarian faction clean the table every now and then...
We've lost so much technology to the past, you wouldn't even believe it.

How are you today Gun Thread Troll user?
Found a game to play with yet or are you just getting your kicks on here instead of actually DMing or GMing something?

Why not combine magic and guns? Shoot a fireball out of a musket arcane archer style, or drop a toxic cloud spewing cannonball into the middle of a regiment.

Or grind up the bones of the dead and turn them into fuel filled mana cartridges for your massive auto-loading wand-of-magic-missile-but-better.

Technological divergence led to traditional gunpowder weaponry being largely relegated to curiosities in favor of more potent and diverse alchemical/magical equivalents. There's very little incentive to develop gonnes and canons when you can effectively and cheaply build what are essentially directed energy weapons capable of delivering any number of spells

Because OP doesn’t actually care you stupid fucking retard. He makes a thread about this at least once every day and has been doing so for at LEAST four months now, usually with opening text designed to incite or insult argument.

He’s a troll and you’re too fucking stupid to even sage when you post.

Yeah well, you're a jerk.

Simple: Where is the need or use for gunpowder? Anything that early gunpowder weapons can do it much more easily achieved with magic. The great cannons that brought down the Theosodian Walls would be no great innovation beyond what already exists. War mages can launch fireballs that consume hundreds of men and tear forts asunder. Military conflict has long since moved beyond the realm of massed formation.

The real question is: Why do any sort of traditional military structure exist at all in a world where regiments can be shattered with a wave of a wizard’s hand?

It's more than wizards. In most RPGs people with class levels are just flat out better, and PCs basically godmen each worth hundreds of men at least. You'd think that traditional armies would be relegated to boots on the ground while the actual warfare boils down to groups of PC level characters fighting

Only when it comes to anons being willfully stupid because they don’t have anything better to do. Don’t you have a game to prepare for? A character to ask questions about? Ideas to probe other anons about how to GM them right?

Literally ANYTHING other then post a response on a troll thread that has been showing up for months on end? You could literally put down your phone and then go sit down and take a dump and make more forward progress to actually talking about traditional games.

If magic exists, why were bows and spears invented?

Sorry user my game was delayed and I haven't been on Veeky Forums for a while so I came here to fill the void and talk about fantasy guns. I was not aware that contributing to this thread would be a sin.

Not everyone is a wizard, and their is some use in those things for hunting. I’m not saying that battles and fights wouldn’t happen. But large-scale, organized military campaigning, and the sort of structural support that’s needed to progress gunpowder weaponry (which was driven by it’s military applications in our world) is a whole other matter.

Who hurt you user?

Because the gods don't want it, mages don't want it, the nobles don't want it, and more importantly I don't want it.

It seems that the nation in question was so absorbed by the novelty of the "shot", that, much like you, they went full retard and forgot the "pike". Follow politics all you want, but maybe look at military history before airing your opinions.

This is like the zillionth thread I've seen in TG lately about this same project. Clearly, one user has a serious bug up his ass.

Well the fresh spin on egypt threads get banned now, so the spammer has to resort to spamming a different type of thread.

Shitty setting

This

...

Veeky Forums did. The whole site fosters a dependant relationship based around a mutual hobby and a superiority complex, then actively punishes you for using it as your sole medium of communication for the hobby.
Worse, it fosters bizarre mindsets that have no bearing on reality, and slowly incapacitate your ability to interact with people normally without the skewed lens of biting cynicism, nihilism, and condescension.
We're in a hell of our own making. Those Faggots whose entire lives are about the next big tweet they make or blog post about their life? That's us, whether you admit it or not, except it's made worse when you realize the people we depend upon to validate our opinions is Veeky Forums.

Lol, what are you even on about i come on this piece of shit website to shitpost and laugh at how stupid other people are, when i want approval i go to Reddit

But are you happy with your pursuits in life?

of course, i learnt that no one, absolutely no one can judge you except yourself

Beacuse its actually a low key distopia where change and progress was ended by the gods long ago. Everything dances to the same tune it did centuries ago, the only thing changing being the balance of power between good and evil swinging back and forth like a pendulum.

You mean in universe or out of universe?
Most of the out of universe reasons are either the writer doesn't want it as part of the aesthetic or can't be asked to try balancing them
The in universe reasons are usually a pretty simple 'physics and chemistry do not function the same as on earth, gunpowder does not exist'

They're not canon.

Why is there this implication that Dragons would somehow be vulnerable to anything less than big ass Howitzers?

I suppose if daggers and arrows can kill them then it is assumed guns would dominate them. Though at least in dnd every edition with guns has them do like the same damage as a crossbow or slightly more, which isn't much.

Mechanics-wise I do recall guns in pathfinder hitting touch AC, with dragons have shitty dodge (also where the necromancy touch spell to kill them in 1-3 casts thing comes from) so in that system shooting a dragon would just be rolling damage every turn for free.

>implying technological progress is strictly linear and follows a deterministic course

It doesn't work like a tech tree.

I don't like them nor do I like the people that like them, or any firearm, and as the DM I have the right and authority to not have them at my games because of my dislike for them.

Magic

tpbp

The gods smite anyone that pushed technology too far.

Then play a modern day setting! Duh.

The first alchemist to make it accidentally put his mixing spoon through his skull. His work was magically disposed of. The second was killed in a fire caused by a blast knocking over other jars of chemicals. The third is currently in the process of trying to duplicate the second man's work, but isn't getting anywhere fast.

In my other setting, chemically accelerated weapons went out of style years ago. Electromagnetic projectors of plasmas and solids are often cleaner and cheaper to produce.

Because technology does not progress in a linear pathway, and maybe in my world the invention of gunpowder weapons aren't a thing

Because technology progresses through time and maybe in my setting right now gunpowder hasn't arrived yet

Because any nation worth their salt would rather invest in magic for warfare rather than fuck around with less efficient methods

But mostly because I don't fucking like guns, I find them boring as are all these shitty "why u no have guns" threads we have everyfucking day where 2-3 trolls just spam about how much manlier it is to play a game where 1 bullet can kill anything and how everyone that disagrees is a children. Despite the fact that the majority of tabletop rpgs and medieval fantasy games don't include guns except maybe marginally.

Guns simply lack the same sort of romance and iconic weight that draws most people to fantasy settings and disrupt the things that do have that allure.
It'd be like making semiautomatic pistols and rifles common in a Spaghetti Western game. Sure, they existed, but that's not really part of the fantasy that people are seeking out or embodying.