/wfg/ Warhammer Fantasy General

>so that people would want to move on to a system that didn't even have points values and required people act like complete douchebags

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I think you're giving GW too much credit. They often just write shit things because they either A) think it's actually good, or B) they just don't care enough to try.

They're in the business of selling plastic, their art and writing department has been cut to the bone over the past few years.

So, I bought an Island of Blood box for 74$ today. Should I drop the money on another one? Probably the cheapest I will ever find it. There are two left at the flgs, and they're shuttering tomorrow.

What army do you play, elves or skaven?

Kind of my first foray into the hobby. I like the skaven for their craziness, but I prefer the dwarfs. Fucking Battle for Skull Pass, though, is almost impossible to find.

Okay.
I asked because if you like HE then IoB is the only source of Lothern sea guards, swordmasters and reavers.
But skaven part is also pretty solid, so I guess you should buy it

Does the 6th ed elector count on griffon represent a particular elector? Been so long I don't even remember the province colour schemes

I'm looking through the old 3rd Ed, etc scenario packs and loving them. They really make me want to put together some quick small armies and play some fluffy as fuck games.

I just need to work out a decent way to print off the cardboard buildings now.

I'm putting together a dwarf army on the cheap using the em4 plastic and some old Grenadier metals. That could be an option. The plastic are monopose, but they look pretty good ranked up.

I want to use alt model companies, but the sentiment I got from the old flgs owner is that the local scene really looks down on non-GW models. I'm in a resort town which is half dead for half the year, so I think many of them wouldn't know a GW model from a wart on their rear, but still.

Well, the way I look at it myself is that at this stage WHFB needs to use non-Citadel miniatures because a lot of things just aren't being made by GW anymore. In addition, i think the whole 'HAS TO BE GW' thing is a very bad habit that emerged in the 2000s and against the whole principle of the game as it was originally and for a long period of time.

In addition, these dwarves are all sculpted by Nick Lund in the same style he usually does, and he was one of the sculptors responsible for the Citadel look, designing some of their most iconic miniatures of the 80s. So you could argue they're an offshoot of GW, a bit like Marauder miniatures.

Also for me, it never really mattered if someone had the right miniatures or not, as long as they fit and you could tell what they were. Getting someone to play a game was the important part. The last thing is that it won't cost much. I'm spending £50 on this dwarf army and I'll have 170. miniatures with money left over. For that price, you can't really go wrong.

Warhammer is also dead so it's not like you aren't supporting it. If anything buying GW is only gonna keep keep them pumping out different flavors of space marine (thank goodness they can't really do that for LoTR).

I'm glad you think this way.

On that note, anyplace to get some of the elite units cheaply? Warriors, esp. w/ spears, are in abundance, but I can't seem to find Hammerer or Irondrake lookalikes anywhere. Are they just new enough that nobody can reasonably fudge it?

You have the pages, right? You can find them online too I think. You take the pages, print the necessary parts out, put them over cardboard and viola.

If there's no easy way like that - which I think is what you're implying already - then I guess you might have to just try to work cardboard by hand and eyeball, based off of pictures.

That's a bit more complex.

Most of the conversions can be done with a bit of time. I'm not sure I'm going to do them, but I might later on if I want more specialised units and variety to the army (I plan on using it in many systems not just WFB).

The best way I've seen is to use the axe dwarves and make a press mold for certain objects using some blue stuff, other mediums, etc. That allows you to quickly and cheaply churn out replacement weapons, armour bits, etc, so with a bit of work you get them looking like hammerers, longbeards, rangers.

Irondrakes etc on the other hand are a bit harder. You could try Mantic, or keep an eye out on ebay, etc for some, or just convert/model some dwarves so they take on some of the aspects; heavily armoured, large guns, etc and say 'They're Irondrakes."

What they look like finished.

Also can add some armour, etc using greenstuff press molds.

Once I'm done with this army, my plan is to finish up the Mantic undead I bought years ago. Then I'm not sure.

I either want to build the Grudgebringers from Shadow of the Horned Rat/Dark Omen, using 12 Warlord Norman plastic knights, and a box of Perry Foot Knights and European Mercenaries and the Warlord Landsknecht Cannon(plus some shields, and bare heads for the crossbowmen) or I want to do the same thing I'm doing with the dwarves but with orcs, using em4 orcs (converted a bit more) and Grenadier/misc metals. Or Dark Elves, using some old Citadel plastics if I can find them.

But best to focus on what's ahead of me atm.

Those look passable. Heck, even pretty darn good! I was thinking of taking some of the dwarfs I have and recasting them for dupes. recasting just the weapon bits, though, and kitbashing w/ other minis seems like a much more expedient plan.

Soon

So I am just getting into the hobby now and have acquired some armies with which to play the game. All of this is to say that I wasn't around during 8th--I am looking for army books for a couple of the armies I purchased (Skaven and Beastmen), but I have been unable to find anything. I just came across some unofficial book that says no book was made for EITHER army during 8th so...do I just use the army books from 7th? Wtf?

Yep. Welcome to Warhammer Fantasy's last years! No support, no updates and poor management all around.

>so...do I just use the army books from 7th?
Yes.

Well thanks for the replies--I was wondering why it was so hard to find the damn things...lol.

Also fuck GW.

I've got something similar in the back of my mind, EM4 Dwarfs, mix in some Oathmark figs for variety and use bows for rangers, Zvezda siege engines. Bam, hill dwarfs for peanuts.

One thing I also intend to do alongside converting the shit out of the em4 exGrenadier orcs is to use the Heroquest orcs and goblins, make resin copies of them using a silicon mold and mixing them in to break up the monotony a bit more. The whole 'straight lines of stoic monopose' look works great for dwarves, elves, etc but for orcs, it just looks wrong.

Nah, GW did good back int he day. They just went to shit after bringing Kirby onboard.

Yeah.

Pic related; this cost £15 back in the day, about £40 today.

And by Warhammer 3rd/4th rules, that's a decent sized army, ready to play.

I do miss when army sets were ARMY sets, ie, you buy one and you have a legal army for a game.

I'm not usually a big fan of older models, but I guess it's hard to make a skeleton look bad. They got interesting shields too.

True.

It's also a very flexible box set; there's no dedicated skeleton chariot rider or cavalry figures; you glued the infantry onto the horses or the chariot. Same with the long spears, you could put those on the infantry unit.

So with the same box set you could make 40 infantry skeletons, or a chariot, with eight cav with scythes, 10 pikes, 10 handweapons, 10 bows, etc or 10 cavalry, 30 infantry, or whatever.

Does he have armor under that loin cloth?

Of course not.

Yeah, that should get you going.

And honestly, you'd be surprised just how good the monopose stuff works when ranked up in files.

You do know that there is a proper usage for tinfoil besides hats right?

Care to elaborate?

He's planning an army?

This skeleton posting made me dig out the old skeleton Mantic and... I think Confrontation? minis I tried to make an army out of before University kicked in years and years ago.

I think I bought these back in 2011 or so. The metals back when I was 13. I also have a Reaper Bones wizard I'm going to use as the Necromancer.

I likely won't buy anymore of these unless I find some nice minis that fit, but this is enough for a small game of WHFB or other stuff.

It's called denial.

of course not

1) Don't think there's any exploitable loophole, so I'd just tell my opponent to apply your proposed solution
2) They don't traditionally reform because they are skirmishers
3) Yes, as all skirmishers do in combat (for a similar thing, skirmishers who are charged by an enemy)
4) Dunno if it's wrong, but from what I played, you always contracted from the either the first model to get in contact with the enemy unit, or from a hypothethic rectangle, so your case can't happen. If they get to contact more than one unit, you will be fighting two different units, and rolling in two different fights (not sure if you roll for two fights, or for just one, BRB should clear that up?)

Finished my dwarf engineer. Ready to agressively point at the enemy and shake his hammer

>tfw played skaven since 2012
>never bought the rule books

It does kinds suck not having a lore benefit or empowered spells though.

Also does anybody know which base size the chaos spawn are on?

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No, the Empire combat lord was just called Elector-Count.

Kirby was already there at least in 93, he came up with the idea of starter sets.

I sure hope not

Chaos Spawns are on a 40x40 base.

>4959-66a58866-large.jpg
Is that AoW model?

I actually can't remember, if you image search it with google you should be able to find it.
If memory serves me it's from a miniature line that is still being go-funded or something like that.

To this day I can't understand why there are so few tits out mage themed women on the market though.

I've heard this expressed before.

discord.gg/HAMug2G

Wargames General is a discord server with 200 members, that would love to see more fantasy battles discussion. Come check us out!

> Sepulchral Stalkers
This

Any ideas for making a trebuchet for Bretonnia? I've seen a guy make an interesting one out of bits of sprue and spare bits to add a little flavor, but it looks a bit spindly and isn't as cool as the original.

For #2, Skirmishers get a free number of reforms in their movement; normally they cannot move-after-rally unlike Fast Cav.

The issue with point #3 is that rallying = a mandatory reform, which prevents movement, but units with Random Movement *must* pivot and move (since it's a compulsory instead of a remaining move). The question is whether you could have a unit of Squig Hoppers engage an enemy unit, ideally to assassinate a target and do damage before fleeing due to static CR (and most likely escaping since they move 3d6 to flee), only to rally/reform/charge again, like a pseudo "hit-and-run" raid.

The issue with #4 is since the RAW requires contracting around the centermost model; realistically though, this is one of those areas where I think the 8.5 pack/errata is a better precedent.

Stalkers like the other user said. The Sphinx is actually fairly underwhelming at damage output; whether you run the Stalkers entombed or mix them in your ranks, you can still Desert Wind them to an ideal firing position and use them as a can-opener.

(Protip: A Lore of Fire Vampire gives them a flat +1 to wound if you use Flaming Sword)

Use actual pieces of wood for the body and real stones for the counterweight and ammunition. Then you don't have to worry about texturing it before you paint it. I'd go with green stuff and wire/string for the rest, with some shields on it for decoration. A trebuchet is, in design terms, quite simple. You could just use a blueprint for a functional medieval one and it would come out looking great.

>really enjoy vermintide
>but keep seeing that fucking end times logo

Is it wrong for me to feel bitter?

There are plenty of third party model.
Have you checked the 9th Age model-suggestions-page?

Wouldn't real wood be kind of bad to use at this scale? Not in terms of strength, but just that it won't give the same effect as an actual piece of wood to scale would, using sticks and small stones.

Not at all. I think that's why the game exists. Take out your bitterness on the rat-things!

>mwg are canning their weekly whfb batreps

This is the end, my only friend

Looks like Bretonnia finally got an update.

at risk of veering into e celeb nonsense, maybe steve will host more on his own channel to scratch the itch.
On that note, are there any good mordheim series to watch while I'm working?

Maybe he will, hopefully. On a different note maybe he could finally try something new, ages ago someone suggested that he try T9A and he pretty much said he didn't want to look at it because he was afraid it'd be good and he'd want to play it and he wanted to play it safe in case Mr. Mormon would want to give Fantasy batreps the axe. Maybe now he'll feel more free to experiment with it or even try some 6ed.

I usually watch Ash's Mordheim reports but you probably know about those already.

I can only listen to ash for so long, something about his voice grates me. I'm honestly surprised at what a narrow group of people there are putting out this sort of content.

Hey guys, wondering what you might think of my headcanon for Foot Squires.

>Foot Squires are elite peasant troops, differentiated from Yeomen for their quality and level of equipment. In fact, only the largest cities of Bretonnia can raise regiments of Foot Squires, since they are almost solely recruited from the sons of affluent merchants and craftsmen that can afford their equipment and training from knights or even Empire Greatswords.

>They often are treated as valets by their knightly masters when on campaign, which acts both as a sign of favor and a position that keeps them under close watch from the nobility. Since the nobles are suspicious of their unpeasantlike skill, and the peasants see them as uppity and noble pets, Foot Squires tend to bear the symbols of their duchy as a whole rather than more local colors.

>Occasionally Foot Squires are used to fill the positions of understrength groups of Knights Errant, and told that if they survive they will be knighted. The fact that they are invariably placed in the front of such groups is coincidence.

>If Foot Squires do survive this ordeal, they are duly knighted - but their names are changed to die them to an existent noble family. Their old lives are forgotten under pain of death. After all, only the truly noble can be knights.

I find him annoying too, but I find he has mellowed a lot ever since he started Guerrilla Miniature Games. He could get really condescending and passive-aggressive in his old batreps with Steve, throwing the book at him only when it suited him, but lately I've seen him go easy on some newer players just for the sake of a having a pleasant game.

I don't like the edgy nu-Bretonnian vibe, I preferred it when they were unironically noble and brave a la 5th edition

Issue 1: Squires were historically aristocracy. Why not just say they are young nobles not yet old or experienced to be knights errant who serve a senior knight outside of battle and if desperately needed can fight on foot in a manner similar to well equipped men at arms?

Issue 2:
>but their names are changed to die them to an existent noble family. Their old lives are forgotten under pain of death. After all, only the truly noble can be knights.
This seems a little pointlessly edgy. Peasants can and have been knighted in truly exceptional circumstances (although IIRC every time their lines died with them since nobody wants to marry their daughter off to a former peasant), and I can't see any noble house willingly letting a peasant join it and ruining their good name. If you want the peasant angle and the opportunity to theoretically climb the social ladder I would suggest saying something like "their new houses are invariably poor and given little respect, most of these new noble houses die out with the deaths of their founders as no nobleman would marry his daughter off to a man who had once been a mere peasant or merchant."

In medieval Spain, there was the entire concept of the "Peasant Knight," where a peasant that could afford their own horse was considered an honorary knight for most combat purposes but not for the whole feudalist bit. A lot of it could be doing whatever it took to remove Moor from the peninsula.

I do rather prefer the idea of peasants having a few more medieval siege options (like mangonels/rams/mantlets) or rules for Hugo Le Petit and the Herrimaults.

Of course, this means WHFB is one of the only settings where there are *two* Robin Hood's Merry Men-expies (the other being the Outlaws of Stirwood Forest).

Who needs mangonels when you've got Hugo Le Petit shooting S5 projectiles?

I understand that, but I prefer the later stuff myself. Sorry dude.

For Issue 1, that's my awkward wrangling. Bretonnians don't have traditional historical squires, going straight to Knights Errant, but suddenly Foot Squires exist and are explicitly peasant troops.

I get Issue 2 is a little edgy, and I do kind of like the idea of peasants forming their own houses. I thought it was a good way of having Bretonnians be more obsessed with the idea of nobility more than literal noble blood - if someone's good enough to be a noble, they must be some long-lost noble child or something. There's also the fact that it's hard to get around 2e's explicit definition of what it takes to be noble, so having an entire noble house formed seems hard - there's that quest idea about a merchant wanting the last few generations of his family posthumously named noble.

Shit, forgot to add something differentiating them from Yeomen - essentially that while the Foot Squires are better trained and equipped, the Yeomen earn their positions by dint of experience and the skill that comes from that.

The Trebuchet could be the "sheer power" siege-equivalent, but more cumbersome to maneuver, while the Mangonel could be the one with "adjustable strength" and a larger variety of throwable projectiles. Whether the mangonel is used to throw cluster darts, dung, or fire pots, it would serve as the "utility" alternative.

Hugo and his Herrimaults could provide the sniper option.

There's an EEFL fandex being developed that tries to add other options, like Mousillion Knights and a Bretonnian Altar, and I made some comments on certain aspects; the idea of the "Porcupine Ballista" was too...early-draftishly good, and the implementation of the Lady's blessing was a bit wonky.

tl;dr, the blessing was "army-wide" and benefitted for any units with the "Knightly Chivalry" rule, and if a Knightly Chivalry unit refused a challenge, chose to flee as a charge reaction, or your army had more Warmachines than knight-units, the entire army lost the blessing.

The Altar let you retain the Blessing...if you rolled a 6. And had some Bound Spell nobody cared about. So I suggested that the Altar should work more like the Menoth War Engine: If a Bretonnian unit within 12" of the War Altar causes the army to lose the blessing, the Altar could take D3 automatic unsavable wounds instead. It could confer other boons by taking wounds, and regenerate wounds should Knights win challenges in the same aura.

You know, to promote chivalry and all.

I just don't like that his preferred army is the Dwarves. Fucking obnoxious to watch bat reps with them.

I have some questions regarding Chaos Ogres 8th edition. From a hobby perspective they are almost the ideal unit with plenty of conversion possibilities and they seem like they could be a real hoot to field on the table top aswell.
With their low I in mind it seems like the best weapon choice for them is GWs and I'll definitly run them as Nurgle as it makes them a bit more survivable with their mediocre WS. Should I run them as a faster hammer alternative to mainline Warriors in a unit of 8 or would they perhaps work better as a smaller flanking force of 4 models placed in two ranks? Pointwise it seems like a too expensive investment to try to maximise their Ogre Charge by going for a unit of 9 models in three ranks.
If the faster infantry substitute is the way to go are there some things I should never try to tackle headlong or some specific situations I should try to avoid?

Pic's not mine btw.

Gentlemen, I give to you six months worth of overtime.

1x Settra
1x Tomb King
1x Lich Priest on Horse
2x Lich Priest
1x Tomb Herald
1x Casket of Souls
6x Spectral Stalkers
4x Necropolis Knights
6x Ushabti With Great Weapons
3x Ushabti With Great Bows
1x Khermian Warsphinx
1x Necrosphinx
2x Tomb Scorpions
2x Bone Giants
1x Screaming Skull Catapult With Crew
1x Carrion
6x Chariots
16x Skeleton Horsemen
80x Tomb Guard
24x Bow bits for Skelel
24x shields and heads for legionaries

Now how do I play these guys?

Whittle away with magic and range
tarpit and rear/flank charge

What are your favourite metals ranges?

>Skellie backlog
Spray them with zandri dust or corax whitespray and dunk them in Seraphim Sepia and you're halfway there.

Step 1: download the rules for the army. They can be found in the pastebin the OP of every thread provides. You should also download the Nagash End Times supplement, as Undying Legions are better than vanilla Tomb Kings.
Step 2: read up on what every unit does. 1d4chan gives an ok summary, but take it with a grain of salt: 1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Tomb_Kings (1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Undead_Legions#Core_Units for Undying Legions).
Step 3: decide what you want to do (Chariot Spam, Tomb Guard Deathstar, Magic Phase Domination) and make an army list. I recommend downloading BattleScribe.
Step 4: Find someone to play with/a FLGS that hosts Warhammer games. Hopefully you did this before you spent tons of money on plastic crack.
Step 5: Paint your minis. Maybe sell some of the stuff you don't want for a large mark-up on ebay.

Monsters (and monstrous creatures to a lesser extent) are rather vulnerable in 8th due to generally having poor armor, being expensive, usually having mediocre weapon skill, and generally having bad initiative. Their main advantages are higher baseline strength/toughness, and better move values make them better as flankers; Fear in theory should help them mitigate their low weapon-skill, but it only becomes "possible" (and even that's a stretch) if you catch enemy units outside the "General+Steadfast" bubble, thus regulating them to flanker support. Multiple wounds only matters 'in theory' since most armies with access to Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry also lack access to the Lore of Life (and unfortunately, so does Chaos).

Ideally you should only run them one rank deep as opposed to two; although a Cannon will "Stop" if it fails to kill an Ogre, it wounds on a 2+, and kills on a 3+, and can just "bounce" through to kill the model behind. Likewise, attacks that wound on Initiative are dangerous; Purple Sun would kill each Ogre it touches on a 3+, and each dead Ogre = your opponent rolling 3 dice and getting a new Power Die on each 5+.

Alas that Chaos Ogres are in such an awkward position, because they could have been awesome.

Carefully cut apart wooden ice cream sticks is the best way forward.

>suddenly Foot Squires exist and are explicitly peasant troops.
Only in the total war series. However, if you want to use them a more elegant solution may be to simply say they are lower-upper class like mounted yeomen, but instead of buying a horse they invest that money on good armour. An alternative idea if you don't want to refluff them into aristocrats to to say that they are either close to knights or simply the best of the men at arms (so the best of the best of the worst). For the former you could say that they are sons of families directly serving noble families and as a result knights bring them along to personally care for their equipment and stuff. After all if you had to have some peasant cleaning your armour, who better than the peasant you trust to clean your dishes or make your bed? For the latter you could simply say that knights pick the very best men at arms to serve as their squires, giving them superior equipment.

part 2
>I get Issue 2 is a little edgy, and I do kind of like the idea of peasants forming their own houses. I thought it was a good way of having Bretonnians be more obsessed with the idea of nobility more than literal noble blood - if someone's good enough to be a noble, they must be some long-lost noble child or something.
While I understand the sentiment I feel like adoption is the wrong way to go about it. We are talking about a medieval France based nation, not ancient Rome where adoption was a common practice. Personally I would keep the independent house unless a peasant has a good reasoning or a house is willing to sacrifice their good name to adopt an up and coming knight.

For the former their houses are generally looked down on and many new knights become questing knights in the hopes of gaining greater respect and notoriety, many fathers will mandate a nearly impossible task to marry off their daughters to one of these "gutter knights." For example a risen knight might ask to marry a girl and her father demands that he present the head of a minotaur in exchange for her hand in marriage. So the knight becomes a questing knight, probably dies, but if he returns he becomes famed in song and story as the great slayer of the doom bull.

For the latter a house that has been declining in wealth and prestige might lie and claim he is a long lost member of their house eg. "he looks a lot like me and my dead uncle of ill renown always used to visit a village in his part of the country to enjoy the local women. Clearly he is a long lost cousin of mine." The house has its name tarnished but they now have a clearly skilled warrior as part of their house and having a future grail knight or paladin would help recover some of their prestige.

Is it possible to find full-res artwork from the old Armybooks, like 6/7e, in full color online? Or even in black and white?

See, making them the best of men-at-arms makes them too much like Yeomen for me. I want to make them feel distinct, while trying to keep at least a little close to what lore is given to them (otherwise I might as well just ignore them as non-canon). I chose the large cities thing because it reflects gameplay, but I also find it kind of interesting to give the rich merchants of Bretonnia a unique place in their military - it's probably ahistorical, but think Medieval 2's Merchant Cavalry Militia. And it also explains why they haven't grown like in the Empire - equipping one or more sons, and paying an exorbitant price for training, is going to hit them hard financially - and there's no guarantee of any future benefit.

I don't want to feel like your ideas are getting ignored - they're really good, I might end up making use of them instead - but I feel like I may not have made something clear with my initial idea.

It's not as much adoption as...being subsumed by the noble family, I guess. For all intents and purposes they might as well have always been a noble son of that family, though practically speaking they'll probably be of lower standing and never actually inherit land, just be part of a household. It's like how Brets can't tell a knight is a female in disguise because they don't expect it, that same sort of willing blindness - though obviously it only goes so far, especially to the people in the know. Other nobles might remark on how oddly cold the squire's family seems toward him.

I got the idea from a weird bit of WHRP 2e lore where a Bretonnian knight has a squire (weird, I know) and he ends up becoming a Knight Errant. Pic related. Between you and me, I think it was written by someone that didn't get Bretonnian lore, but if I can make the idea work...

But I do like your ideas, especially since it fleshes out the idea of a Bretonnian noble line that isn't prosperous and has little more than their title and their swords.