/osrg/ - old school revival general

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Yopic for discussion: Aren't these threads about common content?

What causes arguments over systems?
If a houserule/change really matters, can't we just mention the rule?
If broader system differences really matter (they don't), can't we just mention the family (AD&D instead of OSRIC, etc.)?


What's the root of these arguments?

Other urls found in this thread:

docs.google.com/document/d/17e1ltFE_rjXfBHI1HRXiU5GIngrO35BlqHMD9s3M578/edit?usp=sharing
xrpshop.citymax.com/page/page/2561954.htm
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youtu.be/yuOObGjCA7Q
cavegirlgames.blogspot.co.nz/2018/02/cavegirls-really-simple-d.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Nice work OP, now we will have a quality thread

>Yopic for discussion

>What causes arguments over systems?

Grognards be groggin

>If broader system differences really matter (they don't), can't we just mention the family (AD&D instead of OSRIC, etc.)?

To the average person it may seem like minor shit, to many OSR players it makes or breaks a system (see: Ascending AC, Skill systems)

>What's the root of these arguments?

Hate is much easier than love

What's so special about OSRIC? Is it any better than AD&D?

Nice image, OP.

OSRIC is AD&D, with virtually no changes.

It is much easier to understand / find things compared to actual 1st ed.

What's actually special about it is that it allowed 1st-ed compatible modules to be made without WotC's express review and permission. We've gotten a ton of sweet content thanks to it.

Parts of it are easier to reference, parts of it are harder, and it throws out contradicting rules. It was from the very first wave of OSR games (in fact, OSR is named after OSRIC) where the goal was just to put a thin veneer on new modules meant for AD&D so you would get sued.

GHOST TRACKER!!!
docs.google.com/document/d/17e1ltFE_rjXfBHI1HRXiU5GIngrO35BlqHMD9s3M578/edit?usp=sharing

>so you would get sued.
*would not

I haven't seen too much OSRIC content, could you show me some stuff?

>What's the root of these arguments?
Because these threads aren't about common content, nobody's discussing the same thing, you have to wait several hours for somebody to mention the content you actually know something about.

If someone says their module is written for 3E, or releases a third-party 3E sourcebook, I expect I can use it without changes when I play 3E.

If I buy a sourcebook for Changeling: the Lost, I expect to be able to use it when I'm playing Changeling: the Lost without changing it.

Likewise, if someone says that something's OSR, I expect to be able to use it in my OSR game without major changes. The most that should be necessary is swapping AC, which honestly they shouldn't give numerical for anyway, and fitting it into how my personal house rules work if I have particularly odd house rules.

Sometimes people say that something's OSR when it's not. That leads to people correcting them. Occasionally they'll get mad about it for reasons that are opaque to me. No one's saying they can't discuss it here anyway, and no one's saying that the quality of a game is dependent on it being OSR. Just that it's not OSR.

Sure. Bear in mind that a lot of stuff either tends to claim compatibility with most OSR systems and so doesn't call out OSRIC specifically, or now that the legal fears has passed just goes straight to saying it's for "the first edition of the world's most popular RPG" and thus bypasses OSRIC completely; OSRIC made the latter possible though, so I'd count them.

The entire Advanced Adventures line by Expeditious Retreat Press (1, 10, and 12 got good reviews).
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Night Wolf Inn:
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This is a freebie that just came out and is getting some good press:
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Mushroom dudes building themselves a god underground:
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...

It doesn't help discussing Veeky Forums-related content is fucking hard, we no longer have the mechanical crutch of 3e/pf, I look at the latest issue of Wormskin and I'm like "is there really anything to discuss about this? It's just a mishmash of shit we've already seen before 15 years ago".

Tell me about Pirate games.

So you've got 5 pirates, each pirate knows the ferocity of each pirate, and there's 100 gold coins...

Agreed 100%.

Remember that one time Jesus told a cripple to kill the president

youtu.be/mSfa56tjBQo

So I posted these in the last thread without any context, which I apologize for. My RPG group is strongly into Warframe and the like. Lately I've been trying to think of ways to get them into OSR games, and I stumbled across Stars Without Number, and remembered how they had always mentioned wanting to do a sci-fi campaign. So I thought, hmm maybe I could make a faction somewhat similar to the Grineer in the game so that they'd at least have that to be familiar with, and have a good enemy to start out at odds with. That said I don't just want to rip-off the grineer and I'd like to have some more interesting enemies as well. I did a basic framework using the SWN rules for building monsters (I know they are intended for alien beasts but I figure they work as well) to make a few simple enemies.

So far I have:

>rippers
Slaves they fitted with metal plates and claws and mind broke into being attack zombie things, some use weapons but mostly claws
HD 1; AC 10; AB +1; D 1d6; #App 3-18; Saving Throw 15+; Movement 40'; Morale 11

>hoplites
Regular infantry, grown in tanks
HD 1; AC 7; AB +2; D 1d8 (carbine rifle); #App 5-8; Saving Throw 13+; Movement 30'; Morale 7

>needlers
Snipers with gauss rifles that fire poison needles
HD 2; AC 9; AB +4; D 2d6 (sniper rifle); #App 1-4; Saving Throw 12+; Movement 40'; Morale 7
Anyone hit by a needle must make a save or be paralyzed for 1d6 rounds
>valkyries
Only female soldiers, put in power armor and wield electricity swords. Are a deadly "solo" encounter and should be feared.
HD 8; AC 2; AB +6/+6; D 2d8; #App 1; Saving Throw 8+; Movement 30'; Morale 12
>linebreakers
Or maybe just breakers, these are suicide bomber guys armed with shotguns, maybe whips as well that can cause paralyzing pain.
Also considering some illusionist guys. Or reactive-armor guys that regain 1d4 hp each time an attack hits them, so you want to take them out in one shot.

Anyway, sorry for hitting char limit, thoughts? Anyone got any ideas on what kind of stuff to do for more "unique" enemies? I figure low-level characters are pretty fragile in SWN like in any system so they wouldn't encounter the bigger guys much at first. Also not sure on the stats, I'm going roughly by the table it sets out. I have tons of ideas for more enemies but I'm not sure how much is too much in terms of enemy types for a faction.

I like everything about Into the Odd, but because of the changes it makes, it basically isn't compatible with any other OSR content. So I'm going to have to set it aside for now

I ran some Lamentations back in undergrad and it was alright. But I didn't care for things like the differential XP advancement systems for different classes, or the plethora of saving throws.

I liked the looks of DCC at first, but when I got into the super elaborate rules for each class I started getting a real 3.PF feel. I think the funnel is a fun concept, but it doesn't fit with how I set up my campaigns.

I heard a lot of people in this thread talking about GLOG, and it seems like the nucleus of a good system. But it's not finished, and I don't feel like sifting through a dozen blog posts trying to scrape together a complete game.

Also, I want a system with ascending AC and no "prime requisites"

What rules should I use, OSRG?

In general, you want to do what the games themselves do: Build a variety of enemies that are different from each other in not just stats but tactics, so you can mix them together for differences in kind. That also means smart dungeon design when it comes to fights, to emphasize whatever type of monster you throw at them...

Are you using OG SWN or the Revised Edition that came out in December?

Comedy answer: my homebrew.
Real answer: I dislike prime reqs too, but they really only exist for two things: class qualification and XP bonuses. Both can be done away with so easily and with no other effect on whatever system you're using that I wouldn't consider its presence or lack thereof relevant when choosing a system. I know "you can just houserule it" is a rightly derided answer, but it fits here.

Of the big ones, I think Swords & Wizardry would work best for you, since it has ascending AC and only one save.

>BFRPG
Can't get more basic then this. Race & Class, lots of community support, and it's free.

>What's a way to do poison that's not instant death but still makes it extremely dangerous? (and if possible meshes with the original save as well as possible, e.g. not having to calculate damage dies based on poison strength or some shit)

1d6 damage per HD of the affected (poison is lethal no matter how many HD you have). Save for half.

Save vs. poison or drop to 1 HP and suffer a -4 penalty to everything you do.

>If you just change your preferences and houserule everything, this thing is perfect for you!

I don't know what else I expected from /osrg/

Sorry you can't read.

I'm sorry nobody likes your special snowflake system

>BFRPG

Why don't you just recommend him a gun and one bullet

>But I didn't care for things like the differential XP advancement systems for different classes,
>or the plethora of saving throws.
You will find these in every OSR system. Bite the bullet and give B/X another shot. Or abandon OSR.

>Also, I want a system with ascending AC and no "prime requisites"
h o u s e r u l e s

>Or abandon OSR
I think I will. All the recommendations I've gotten so far have had the exact things I asked them not to have. I thought the whole point of this genre was to fix the problems with old school D&D, not to slavishly recreate them

>h o u s e r u l e s
b l o w m e

>I thought the whole point of this genre was to fix the problems with old school D&D
Different strokes of different blokes. Those stick around because they work.

>b l o w m e
w h e r e d o y o u l i v e ?

Okay, found the video I was thinking about when I said this. youtu.be/yuOObGjCA7Q

Basically, the key is consistency and differences of kind. I'd give the rippers HD 1/2, but give them a large initiative bonus so they can get the first hit in before going down.

PCs in SWN don't have the mobility options the Warframe do (although you could borrow Machinations of the Space Princess's equipment mods to fix that, jump jets are a thing there).

>problems with old school D&D,
There are none, and i dont have to houserule shit. When theres 3 fucking booklets with a few skerples tier drawings and some tables, theres nothing to houserule. You have what normalfags would call a narrative game, but with rules. An even better example would be the Fighting Fantasy books of the 80ies amd 90ies, but you and your players get to write them yourselves.
....
Then again, you just came here to shitpost im sure

>skerples tier drawings
I can't think of a single illustration in the LBB that is worse than his demogorgons.

>Why don't you just recommend him a gun and one bullet
You first

youtu.be/e_ufwRdSOvE

>DCC
>super elaborate rules

lol ok

You can easily change the traditional 5 saving throws for LotFP/LL/BFRPG/BX with something like this.

There are not too many OSR systems that have a single unified XP advancement for all characters. It wasn't really mechanically designed for that. You could always adopt DCCs system or simply say everyone advances as the Fighter class does.

>OD&D
>No problems

Every weapon does a d6

Don't bother: whether trolling or the ur-grog, he's obviously not someone you can actually have a conversation with.

...

Thanks for this.

Ignore Chainmail posters
Hide Chainmail posts

>(20)
>(21)
:thinking:

That's not a problem, you just don't like it.

Just because you don't understanding what HP abstracts doesn't mean 1d6 weapon damage is a problem user.

What does HP abstract, user?

But I'm the OP.
You would hide the thread, would you?

HP was a mistake.

Before we continue this question I've got a question, in your world who would have more HP Schwarzenegger or Putin?

In my world neither would exist, what is this even about?

Putin on account of Schwarzenegger not owning a Super Bowl ring.

>don't understanding what HP abstracts
People have a false misconception that HP represents a characters body mass or physical resistance to damage, anybody that answered "Schwarzenegger" is really fucking new and unread on how D&D and RPG's in general operate.

What does any of that have to do with all weapons dealing 1d6 damage?

When you take this into account all weapons doing 1d6 makes perfect sense when your average human has 2hp; getting shot in the head by a shotgun or a assault rifle doesn't affect the outcome, your dead either way.

Ah, it's a hit location thing then? Most OSR games don't use that, you know.

NAYRT, but what benefit would variable weapon damage provide?

No, he means it's a hit dice thing. A d6 is an average man, a d6 is "kills an average man."

Mike Mornard suggested it to Gary as a way to differentiate weapons. He later felt it was a mistake, since it just led to everybody using the "best" weapon.

It's a experience thing, HP measure the life expectancy of the characters "under fire".

The obvious one is actual reasons to use different weapons. The same damage for all weapons means there are objectively better weapons because they are lighter and/or cheaper, while heavier and expensive weapons shouldn't be carried at all. A dagger deals d6, a two-handed sword deals d6 and precludes the use of a shield - no contest.

You can, of course, make up fluff reasons to use one over the other (can't cut a rope with a cudgel, etc) but since everyone carries dungeoneering tools aside from their arms, it's pretty pointless.
And what was that, according to him?

Continued.

In order words Putin would have more HP because he's way way more experienced than Arnold, but Arnold would have a higher strength modifier.

But neither is "the average man", and by they should be able to withstand shotgun or rifle shots.

>The obvious one is actual reasons to use different weapons.
Because your clan is know for throwing axes or you found a magic spear.

Though as points out,
>since it just led to everybody using the "best" weapon.
variable weapon damage doesn't give an actual reason to use different weapons.

>HP measure the life expectancy of the characters "under fire".
That's the most succinct description of HP I've ever seen.

>withstand
A 'successful attack' doesn't necessarily mean you got hit.

Is there a good compilation of OD&D rules anywhere? Something I could print out as a booklet and show to newbies?

Arnold is a commoner who rolled a 18 on strength, Putin is a Fighter who rolled 13.

What rules should I use, OSRG?
>Comedy answer: my homebrew.

>actual serious answer: My homebrew.
cavegirlgames.blogspot.co.nz/2018/02/cavegirls-really-simple-d.html
Take this as a skeleton, and hack it however you want.
Or, fuck, write your own homebrew. Honestly, if you aren't houseruling D&D are you even a real GM?

>What rules should I use, OSRG?
I've heard Wolf-Packs and Winter Snow is pretty good.

Here's a pirated copy, if you want to give it a shot.

ACKS, LL, or Get Out FOE

>Because your clan is know for throwing axes or you found a magic spear.
My clan is known for throwing axes, that's why I'm a Level 1 Fighter able to use all weapons and armor. Come on, you should know better than this.

>Continuing from previous thread

There's three types of poison, with different effects. Of course, if you're hit with more than one dose of the poison, you must save again, and the effect goes to the next worse category (if you had passed a save, you follow the rules as if you had failed it; if you had failed the save for, say, a disabling poison)

>Disabling.
Failing the saving throw leads to being paralyzed or knocked out (depending on poison). You may save again every hour/turn, then follow the rules for passing the saving throw.
Passing the saving throw means you managed to fight off you're slightly drowsy or clumsy due to the poison's effects. -2 to attacks and saving throws, and -1 to AC. Spellcasters have a 4/20 chance of messing up their spells (add ability bonus). Save every hour to end the effect.

>Damaging
When you're hit with this poison you lose 1d8 hp.
Failing the saving throw means every hour you lose 1d8 hp, then get to save again. While this effect is active you have -2 to attacks and saving throws, and -1 to AC. Spellcasters have a 4/20 chance of messing up their spells (add ability bonus)
Passing the saving throw ends the effect.

>Killing.
Failing means you're down to 0hp. You cannot be healed until the poison is removed. Save every hour or die.
Passing the saving throw means you lose 1d8 hp and the poison acts as if you had failed the save for a Damaging poison

>Honestly, if you aren't houseruling D&D are you even a real GM?
You could be a FOE that should GYG, you know. That's what happens when you houserule.

>A 'successful attack' doesn't necessarily mean you got hit.
By RAW, the difficulty to hit Arnold and Putin depends on their Armor Class, which will come from armor and to a much lesser extent from their Dexterity (if you're even using DEX bonuses to AC) They are getting hit, just not enough to be actually impaired.

...you know, armor could add to HP, considering how abstract it already is.

You could just as easily be physically or mental exhausting them. Or getting sand in their eyes. Or even just repositioning to take the high ground.

That's how Arneson ran armor. But now Arneson's dead.

FO (of which I am an E) is just what grogs call DIYD&D.
Houseruling is basically the weed of game design, before you know it you're snorting lines of pure columbian setting-specific magic systems and injecting custom classes.

That's not compatible and thus shouldn't be discussed here.

a lot of larps (at least UK ones) do exactly this, with the added bonus that some attacks can bypass those armour HP.

>You could just as easily be physically or mental exhausting them
HP should be drained by hauling heavy weights and performing feats of strength, then.

...

Hm....
9-AC is your Armor (basically the number ACKS has for AC). Armor is added to your Hit Dice when determining HP.

So a 1st level fighter with 5 HP and Chainmail Armor has 9HP now.
A 3rd level fighter with 12 hp and Chainmail Armor has 24 hp now.

Holy shit, I even like it.

Is HP a disassociated mechanic?

FOP, GAI

Yeah, so?

Technically it already does, I'm sure somebody has figured out the precise effective HP AC provides.

>ehp
God, EVE Online won't let me go.

One thing that occurs to me is that this causes significant HP bloat. Instead of spending many turns whiffing because of high AC, now you will instead have them slowly whittle down huge HP pools.

A variant could be implemented, similar to Flesh & Grit (perhaps you could even integrate the two somehow), where characters have 1 single Hit Die, and they have (Level*AC) Armor Hit Points. They could be attacked at their Unarmored AC to slowly whittle down their armor; or an enemy could attack vs their Armor AC (perhaps with a significant penalty to make it less enticing, say a -2 or -4) to affect their Hit Dice HP directly.

It's not a flat number. It depends on enemy damage and to-hit.

Don't post copyrighted stuff directly to the board, you risk a ban for it. I doubt cavegirl cares, but the mods do.

Correction: that's not compatible, which means you can totally discuss it here, but you can't rightly call it OSR anymore.

t. not a butthurt DCC fag

It's an abstraction, so it depends: do you like it? If yes, it's not disassociated, it's a perfectly fine associated mechanic.
If you don't like it, it's awful storygamer disassociated trash!

>But I didn't care for things like the differential XP advancement systems for different classes
The classes aren't that intricately balanced, and you're high level (12th and 13th) before the cheapest class (clerics*) are a full level ahead of fighters (who I would consider having the "base" XP progression) in B/X.

You want to eliminate the XP gap in B/X? Then tweak the class powers a bit and use the Fighter progression for everybody. Maybe something like:
Fighter: basis of system, so no change
Cleric: plenty powerful already
Magic-Users: use slowed spell progression (see pic)
Thief: d6 hit dice
Dwarves: can't use plate mail
Elves: use revised magic-user spell progression at 1 level lower, can't use plate mail
Halflings: use base fighter progression, so no change necessary (consider barring use of plate mail for consistency with other demihumans, and strictly forbidding them to one weapon size smaller than humans**, but giving them +2 AC vs normal or small / +4 AC vs large attackers to compensate)

Suggest setting level cap at 13 for all demihumans

*Thieves actually start out cheaper, but clerics have a cheaper progression after name level, probably owing to the fact that thieves get +2 hp / level while clerics get only +1.

**No two-handed weapons like two-handed swords or pole-arms. "Standard" weapons like swords require use of two hands, barring use of shields. So shields only possible with "light" weapons like short swords and hand-axes.

That's not WP&WS, I see it posted on Veeky Forums all the time, and I cannot delete a post that old. But its a fair cop.

>I doubt cavegirl cares, but the mods do.
Though on that note, we're not such a populated board that mods will just pass by and I'm 100% certain that cavegirl wouldn't have cared had that been WP&WS.

OSR = RPG