Horus Heresy General /hhg/

9th for Phalanx Breachers =/= Phalanx Warders

I think the base colour is too close to your gold and the models get lost. Beyond that they look really good though.

The Iron Warriors had an absolute assload of mkIV. They had a high turnover of armour and Horus was funneling all the new hotness to his allies.

Cool. I figure I'll field a mix of MK III and MK IV to show the use of older marks as the Legion starts to run out of Maximus suits.

Thoughts on this list? I was going to take Phoenix Terminators and Palatine Blades, but they seem generally inferior to terminators.

Emperor’s Children Maru Skara 2500pts

HQ
Eidolon Jump pack 205pts

Legion Champion Terminator Armour, Phoenix power spear, Chainfist 150pts

Troops

Legion Tactical Squad Artificier Armour, Legion Vexillia 145pts

Rhino 35pts

Legion Tactical Squad Artificier Armour, Legion Vexillia 145pts

Rhino 35pts

Legion Tactical Squad Artificier Armour, Legion Vexillia 145pts

Elites

Terminators 7 men, 2 Phoenix power spears, 3 power fists 260pts

Terminators 7 men, 2 Phoenix power spears, 3 power fists 260pts

Terminators 7 men, 2 Phoenix power spears, 3 power fists 260pts

Heavy Support

Leviathan Dreadnought Siege Drill,Cyclonic Melta Lance, Armoured Ceramite, Phosphex Discharger 330pts

Dreadnaught Drop pod 100pts

Leviathan Dreadnought Siege Drill,Cyclonic Melta Lance, Armoured Ceramite, Phosphex Discharger 330pts

Dreadnaught Drop pod 100pts

MkIII really didn't see a decline in use as newer marks came out, since it was more of a specialist suit with an intended purpose, and no other suit really did what it did.

hey user I'm just starting my ec army, can I equip my tactical squad Sargents with a pheonix spears?

Yes you can, any model with the infantry (character) unit type can, so any of your squad sergeants should mostly be able to

Has anyone had experience with combing Golg and Orbital Assault to deep strike loads of Terminators? Is it at all viable?

thanks also i use the palantine blades in a drop pod to some what better success

Also I just realised I'm a moron because I gave my terminators more than one spear, even though the sergant is the only one that can take them

since the palatine blades all are infantry (character) couldn't you give the entire squad pheonix spears? I mean if you get the charge that would be ultimate cheese

>Power Spear and Chainfist
Cool weapon combo! Model the Chainfist so it's gripping the base of the spear. The pointy-out chainsaw blade will mirror real-life polearm tactics involving a hook on the rear end of the shaft.

You could, and it would look sexy as fuck. The downside is that if you dont get the charge or end up in a protracted combat you're in a bind. The cost stacks up too, so its generally not too cheesy.

only the sergeant is a character, but they do have the spears as an additional wargear option already.

With jump packs they can hop around with Eidolon and hit hard.

cheap-n-fast.com/catalog/rubric/220

I'm looning at their brass section. The website says their whole range is in resin, do you think that would include the etched brass kits? I think some of these aren't available anymore, but if they're resin, they might be shit.

Email them and ask?

>Using those torsos
Don't lose your way, user.

>Terminators 7 men, 2 Phoenix power spears, 3 power fists 260pts
How are you getting two phoenix spears?

> I was going to take Phoenix Terminators and Palatine Blades, but they seem generally inferior to terminators.
Palatine blades can best be compared to weapon master veterans. With this comparison you have two primary builds where they are better
>Naked palatine blades though more expensive than naked vets are rending which is nice especially against terminators (10 PBs kill 4 termies on the charge on average)
>Phoenix spear palatine blades are AP 2 and +1 strength
You can shake it up a little by adding jump packs and shriekers, but with just power swords veterans are objectively better being almost identical but cheaper.

Surely the brass kits are made of brass.

I just bought an Achilles Alpha Land Raider for my Imperial Fists but just realized something.

Is it a unit that’s considered OP? I like the idea of running Phosphex on it since it’s such a brutal tank.

>Is it a unit that’s considered OP?
No because it has such a huge price tag and its transport capacity is highly limited.

I use three in a list because I like the idea of nearly indestructible assault tanks and it meshes very well with Iron Hands. On the other hand that is like 1/3rd of my points spent on 3 vehicles with pretty limited firepower compared to say 5 sicarans. If I wanted to make an OP list I would use quad launchers.

How would you rank the available 30k armies? Has anyone ever done one of those tier charts for 30k?

Ok cool. Thanks!

>ironfire
>mechanicum
>court of the crimson king
>everything else
>worst bearers

Does "Ironfire" refer to Iron Warriors phospex spam?

It refers to I R O N F I R E.

You haven't seen the wonderful memes about it ?

Ok so I asked about a NL/IW Loyalist force and was wondering about some feedback for a potential list. Night Lords play the close up role and the Iron Warriors provide the heavy fire support. I don't own any of this yet, so would be open to some suggestions.

Loyalist Iron Warriors/Night Lords
Shattered Legions: Pride Of The Legion 3500 points

HQ: Night Lords Praetor w/ Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Trophies of Judgement, Plasma Pistol, Paragon Blade, and Melta Bombs 195pts

HQ: Iron Warriors Praetor Warsmith w/ Iron Halo, Servo Arm, Archaeotech Pistol, Paragon Blade, and Melta Bombs 210pts

Elites: Iron Warriors Contemptor Dreadnought w/ TL-Lascannon, DCCW w/ Plasma Blaster, and Extra Armor 225pts

Elites: Night Lords Terror Squad of 10/ 5 Heavy Chainblades, 5 Volkite Chargers, and a Headsman w/ a Nostraman Chainglaive and Melta Bombs 265pts

Troops: Night Lords Assault Squad of 10 w/ 2 Power Axes and a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 210pts

Troops: Night Lords Cataphractii Terminator Squad of 5 w/ Teleportation Transponders, a Reaper Autocannon, 3 Powerfists, a Chainfist, and a Sergeant w/ a Power Sword 230pts

Troops: Iron Warriors Veteran Squad of 10 w/ Marksmen, 2 Meltaguns, and a Vet Sergeant w/ a Thunder Hammer 210pts

Dedicated Transport: Iron Warriors Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pts

Troops: Iron Warriors Veteran Squad of 10 w/ Marksmen, 2 Missile Launchers w/ Suspensor Webs, and a Vet Sergeant w/ a Combi-Plasma and Power Fist 235pts

Fast Attack: Night Raptor Squad of 10 w/ 2 Meltaguns, 2 pairs of Lightning Claws, and a Huntmaster w/ a Nostraman Chainglaive and Volkite Serpenta 335pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Caestus Assault Ram w/ 2 Missile Launchers 315pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad of 10 w/ a Tyrant Siege Master w/ an Omniscope 545pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Vindicator Squad of 3 w/ Extra Armor, Machine Spirit, and a Squadron Command Tank 485pts

Total = 3500 points

For a 3500 point list you seem very light on anti-tank. Furthermore three vindicators in a squadron is retarded levels of overkill even at 3500 points, if you want multiple vehicles per slot dreadnought talons are objectively better since they can move and target enemies independently. Survivability wise your infantry seems fine with about 70 wounds with a good number being terminators, although your armour seems pretty flimsy for the point level, an assault ram, a rhino, a dreadnought, and three vindicators isn't much at 3500 points and many lists can wipe out your armour by turn 2 or 3.

Assuming you can buy anything I would suggest dropping two or all three vindicators and replacing them with a typhon (can shattered legions take LoWs?), and drop some terminators to fill up your list with more transports or heavy vehicles to spread out enemy AT fire. Either that or drop all your armour because at 3500 points you can expect stuff like triple lightnings or multiple sicaran venators and they will kill your vehicles off very fast. At least if you buy no vehicles their AT weapons will be largely wasted.

Would you consider 10 Cyclone Missile Launchers in a squad light anti-tank?

Not him, but I certainly would. It may be a lot of shots, but they're only s8 and can only fire at so many targets per turn.

Largely.
>Takes two turns of dedicated shooting to kill a land raider
>Incapable of harming AV 14
>Is only one unit

If you had three or four units I would say fucking great, but at 3500 points you should have much much more anti-tank.

The list's entire AT consists of
>One unit with meltabombs (good AT)
>Two ICs with meltabombs (bad AT)
>A ton of cyclone missile launchers in a single unit (good AT)
>A few chain/power fists on sergeants (bad AT)
>A squadron of vindicators (bad AT)
>A combined 4 missile launchers, 1 reaper autocannon, and 1 TL lascannon (good AT)
>I'm not counting fists on cataphractii terminators because if you managed to assault vehicles with those your opponent is clearly mentally disabled

None of the options are really exceptions due to needing CC, limited damage, and/or limited penetration. A spartan or mechanicum transport is invulnerable against this list outside of assault, and at 3500 points an opponent has plenty of means to keep you from assaulting his valuable vehicles. At 3500 points you should look to have the burst firepower to drop a spartan in a single turn and the sustained firepower to drop multiple light vehicles a turn.

>Incapable of harming AV 14
I meant AV 14 plus flare shield

Not the user who asked, but I'm the original poster.

This indepth analysis is incredibly handy! I'm going to do some adjusting and see what I can work with. Honestly I may drop the Caestus and take some Lascannon Havocs, plus another Rhino.

Ok let's try this again. 10 Lascannon Iron Havocs and a Rhino tossed in. Removed the Caestus and a Vindicator.

Loyalist Iron Warriors/Night Lords
Shattered Legions: Pride Of The Legion 3500 points

HQ: Night Lords Praetor w/ Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Trophies of Judgement, Plasma Pistol, Paragon Blade, and Melta Bombs 195pts

HQ: Iron Warriors Praetor Warsmith w/ Iron Halo, Servo Arm, Archaeotech Pistol, Paragon Blade, and Melta Bombs 210pts

Elites: Iron Warriors Contemptor Dreadnought w/ TL-Lascannon, DCCW w/ Plasma Blaster, and Extra Armor 225pts

Elites: Night Lords Terror Squad of 10/ 5 Heavy Chainblades, 5 Volkite Chargers, and a Headsman w/ a Nostraman Chainglaive and Melta Bombs 265pts

Troops: Night Lords Assault Squad of 10 w/ 2 Power Axes and a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 210pts

Troops: Night Lords Cataphractii Terminator Squad of 5 w/ Teleportation Transponders, a Reaper Autocannon, 3 Powerfists, a Chainfist, and a Sergeant w/ a Power Sword 230pts

Troops: Iron Warriors Veteran Squad of 10 w/ Marksmen, 2 Meltaguns, and a Vet Sergeant w/ a Thunder Hammer 210pts

Dedicated Transport: Iron Warriors Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pts

Troops: Iron Warriors Veteran Squad of 10 w/ Marksmen, 2 Missile Launchers w/ Suspensor Webs, and a Vet Sergeant w/ a Combi-Plasma and Power Fist 235pts

Dedicated Transport: Iron Warriors Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pts

Fast Attack: Night Raptor Squad of 10 w/ 2 Meltaguns, 2 pairs of Lightning Claws, and a Huntmaster w/ a Nostraman Chainglaive and Volkite Serpenta 335pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Iron Havoc Squad of 10 w/ 10 Lascannons 460pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad of 10 w/ a Tyrant Siege Master w/ an Omniscope 545pts

Heavy Support: Iron Warriors Vindicator Squad of 2 w/ Extra Armor and Machine Spirit 300pts

Total = 3500 points

>A squadron of vindicators (bad AT)
Laser Vindicators and standard Vindicators still come out at the same points after common upgrades, right? So he could conceivably buy both and switch off depending on his needs.

3 in a squadron is still overkill, though.

>Splurged and bought 4 shield upgrade sets for the new Gray Slayers because I love vikings
>Realize I don't know shit about Space Wolves
>Realize I don't like SW besides the viking part
>Bought 40 MKIII Marines because apparently 20 all shield squads is bad
>No idea what I'm doing when I get it all

I need better impulse control

/HHG/ What do I need to make a successful infantry heavy SW list? Like 2K points, doesn't have to be specific but just shit that would probably work well, ideas and maybe some vehicles. I spent days researching what I needed for NL, so know the same list building knowledge like everyone else, but also realize that SW are a different ballgame altogether.

If I'm gonna be impulsive about the army in the first place, may as well go all out.

Is there any info on the Mole that was shown at the weekender? We got rules and info on the Termite, but all I've seen of the Mole is just some renders.

Because it wasn't yet sculped

But any hints at rules, etc.? I'm assuming it'll transport more than the termite and probably tougher, but what FOC slot, super-heavy or not, etc. Is the transport ordinatus mandatory? Any info on possible release?

Real champs wears stars.

Modeling for advantage question. My chinese auxilia came with 32mm bases unlike my legit ones on 25mm.

I probably should have just bought 25mm to match my legit dudes. But I've fallen in love with how not-retarded the 32mm are, with their feet actually inside the base and plenty of room for basing. So what should I do?

>move everything to 25s
>move everything to 32s
>just keep a command squad on 32s
>or not give a fuck

Use the bases the original models comes with, so 25mm in this case.

I'm pretty sure the rules is to use the base the model came with.

Yes, from the original model company. It shouldn't be the case with recasters.

Guys pls. Give your reasoning with your answer, I need halp.

here's what I wanted to do before I realized my true allegiance is with the golden boys: space wolves drop pod assault. easy to fill up on the grey slayer squads, shields gives them an invuln for when they come out of the pods, add a leviathan in a dreadnought drop pod and a terminator squad in a dreadclaw/kharybdis. fluffy infantry heavy would look sweet with rune decals on the pod doors.

The Solar Auxilia on the FW have 25mm, so use that.

GW didn't specify.

Any suggestions on how to use White Scars in Zone Mortalis? I don't really see how to use their unique rules all that well there.

I just can't stop thinking about dem free chainaxes.

Actually I just heard about the whole thing.
The rules say "if a model has access to a chainsword it can have a free chainaxe instead"
I just cannot believe sperglords take that to the letter to imply that merely having the option to take a chainsword gives a free chainaxe.
It obviously means the model has to have a chainsword in order to exchange it for a chainaxe.

But noooooooooooooooooo, gotta win at all costs, right?

I’m building a Blackshield Zone Mortalis List and I need some help. Its going to be my first 30k army so I’m a bit in the deep end right here. So far this is what I have:

Wrought by War: Death Seekers
6+ FNP, immune to pinning and morale from shotting is pretty damn good. Orphans of War and Outlanders are too volatile when it comes to ZM from the looks of thing, and I don’t want morale phase to screw me over every time.
The other Wrought by War I’m thinking of is Chymeriae.

So questions:
>How important is sweeping advance in ZM games?
>How important is shooting phase in ZM games?
>How terrible is Halo blade?
>Is cata terminator any good in ZM games?

>Does "Ironfire" refer to Iron Warriors phospex spam?
Kinda, You should always take medusas/reductor allies to allow for s10 pieplates, but non scattering phosphex is truly a sight to behold.

SO correct me if I'm wrong, but as of the new rulebook are leviathan armies now normal? and not an optional thing?

I guess a lot of 30k events turn into dudes looking for dudes and people will just avoid the scumbag who takes something truly obscene, but it seems crazy OP against a regular 25oopt army.

>Blackshield
>Zone Mortalis
>first 30k list
No! Don't! Abort!

Doesn't really matter, as HH is a much more tightly-knit group and the shitstains usually find themselves without anybody to play against.
>inb4 "muh tournaments"
Anybody playing HH competetivly deserves everything horrible they can get.

why? is it that bad?

Not him, but neither blackshields nor ZM lend themselves to be an introduction to HH. You'd be starting with a double handicap, basically.
It can be done, but expect things to be an uphill struggle.

I've been following 30k for a good 2 years now. I watch a lot of bat reps, I'm new but I wouldn't call myself green. Also this ZM thing is the biggest 30k anything in my area so I don't have many options.

Would it be better if I started with literally anything aside from Blackshields?

>Also this ZM thing is the biggest 30k anything in my area so I don't have many options.
ZM is great.

>Would it be better if I started with literally anything aside from Blackshields?
Yes and no.

I'd take what this guy is saying with a pinch of salt, in bigger point games Blackshields definitely do find themselves at a disadvantage but at lower ZM points levels then the gap is much closer. If you want to make a Blackshields force and your local group only plays ZM then that's fine really.

So questions:
>How important is sweeping advance in ZM games?
>How important is shooting phase in ZM games?
>How terrible is Halo blade?
>Is cata terminator any good in ZM games?

>Also this ZM thing is the biggest 30k anything in my area so I don't have many options.
I see, in that case, disregard my warnings in regards to ZM. You'll do fine, I'm sure. It'll take some learning, but with a dedicated community it'll work out.
I'd still seriously think about Blackshields, since they're saddled with a lot of unpleasant baggage overall that makes them a chore at times, but if you're set on them, I could offer some advice, if you want.

i would love some advice.

- Pretty important. A successful sweep means a lot less headaches in the future.
- Very important. The added lethality makes short-ranged firefights really nasty. Heavy-duty guns care less about this than small-scale guns with a great rate of fire.
- Fucking awful outside very few specific circumstances. A fist or hammer will nearly always serve you better.
- Yes. Immunity to generalized Rending is the tits and their options make them brutal at short-ranged engagements.

>>How terrible is Halo blade?
Overall it's pretty shoddy, not high strength enough to Instant Death marines and only AP3. If you know that you won't be facing any or many 2+ saves then it's pretty good, other wise take a powerfist or thunder hammer etc. It's pretty good against mechanicum as nine times out of ten you will be hitting first and I think it's only magos and the big beep boops that get a 2+.

>>Is cata terminator any good in ZM games?
>>How important is sweeping advance in ZM games?
>>How important is shooting phase in ZM games?
The only answer here really is 'depends', Salamanders would probably get more mileage out of cataphractii and shooting than they would with sweeping while Emperors Children would have a better time relying on faster units and sweeping.

Do you have a list or an outline at the moment? Probably easier for us to critique a list than help you build one by micromanaging the rules.

Things to be able to counter or to watch out for.

Breachers with apothecarys
2W termies with primus medicae
Heavy flamer support squads
Dreadnoughts

ZM Blackshield List 1000 points

HQ
1. Blackshield Reaver Lord
- Cata Armour
- Digital Laser
- Rad Grenades
- Thunderhammer

Elite
2. Contemptor Dread
- Chainfist + Twin Bolter
- CCW + Twin Bolter

3. Cata Termie Squad (5)
- Granade Harness + Heavy Flamer
- 5 Combi Bolter
- 2 chainfist, 2 power fist, 1 power sword

Troops
4. Marauder Squad (6)
- Pariah Power Armour
- Chief, Thunder Hammer, Combi Plas, Melta Bomb
- 4 shotguns, 1 pariah flamer

5. Marauder Squad (6)
- Pariah Power Armour
- Chief, Power Fist, Combi Plas, Melta Bomb
- 3 pariah bolter, 1 shotgun, 1 pariah flamer

- Marauders are actually a very good, flexible unit. These guys will do a lot of heavy lifting and can work wonders if you know what you're doing.
- Reaver Lords can do their job, but you'll need to invest in them beforehand. Don't expect to tangle with the true challenge kings.
- Wrought by War: Outlanders is fucking terrible, Chymeriae is far and away the best option, everything else lies somewhere in between.
- Xenos Deathlocks, Laslocks and Pariah wargear is all garbage. Don't bother outside the Pariah flamer, which halfway decent.
- Nemean Reaver – field him, love him. He's amazing.
- You'll need both melee and shooting, so gear accordingly. Dedicated melee or shooty legions will always trump you in their discipline and generalist armies can out-generalize you, so learn to adapt.
- Their toys > your toys. Learn to live with that.
- You don't do deathstars. Period. Just forget about that.
- Infantry, transports and dreads, those are your best friends.

How would Custodes go in a ZM game ? I've never seen any golden boys list in this context.

Which Wrought by War effect?
>Reaver Lord
Take a cyber familiar.
>Contemptor
Try to make room for graviton guns in both arms
>Terminators
Power sword is garbage, leave it. 1 Chainfist is also enough, anything that requires more than one will fuck you over regardless.
>Marauders
Don't mix your guns between bolters and shotguns. Stick to the latter and for the love of god, take chainaxes. Thunderhammer on the chief is bad; take a fist if you must, but it's generally wasted points either way.

With a blanket 2+ and Move Thorugh Cover they'd not give any shit about the dangerous environment, super-Rending sentinel blades would be absolutely murderous and their native special rules would make any melee with them a terrible idea.

>How would Custodes go in a ZM game ?
>How would super elite mudermachines whose only major weakness is S10 ap2 artillery and being focused down by long range weapons go in a cramped enviroment without those things?
Its hard to find a more terrifying enviroment, for non Custodes armies. literally nothing can stop the golden boys in a ZM game. its fucked.

So far I want sweeping advance, and I like to 6+ FNP so I'm going with Death Seekers

>6+ FNP
T5 is superior

>S5 T5 Blackshields
I get that it's objectively the best but lets try to be original a bit here.

Suits me fine. My fluff is that the Reaver Lord was a Death Guard so Death Seeker or Chymeriae 1 works either way with me. My boys are going to be hard to kill.

So it looks like I should turn my Lord into an Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Cyber Familar dude. and Have my marauders carry more shotguns.

any other recommendations for my current list?

Hey friends. Just bought a Storm Eagle and Caestus Assault Ram.

What kind of nightmare am I in for when building these?

Maybe swap your dread for a Cortus, the drop in WS is made up for by the special rules.

Wait wut? How is cataphractii terminator armour immune to rending?

Let's start a fight.
Chymerae Terminators with Power Fists: Are they S9 or 10?

Have you build resin vehicles before? If not, try to retain your sanity~

Read the ZM rules.

Ironfire is an Iron Warriors Rite of War. You basically get free markers on the board when you shoot, which makes your shooting better. You're already shooting anyway, so it's just a free upgrade for doing what you're already doing, TO what you're already doing. Drawbacks are minimal.

Zone mortalis rules say that weapons get rending against everything except hardened or void hardened armour.

Catapharctii armour isn't listed has having either of those.

Look really fun to play with and against. For competitive purposes, I basically have to repeat everything said here. Consider having both lists, the former for friendly pick up games and the latter for tournies.

All models with a 2+ are immune to it, not just Cataphractii. The Rending stuff is limited to specific ZM games (void warfare, hazardous environment, etc...) however.

Christ no one here is being clear.

Cold Void & Poisoned Air is an optional special rule in ZM games that makes Rending apply on a roll of 5 or 6, unless the target has hardened armour or has AV or has a save of 2+.

So we all know Destroyers are overpriced, but are they better in ZM?

I’d imagine Phosphex and Rad weapons become terrifying.

Oh right on! Good idea!

Controversial opinion: it doesn't matter, so long as the model occupies >50% of the base size it's fine

From a rules-interpretation perspective, it's patently ridiculous.

From a balance perspective, WE could probably do with the leg-up.

Frankly I'd rather have it that all melee weapons in a WE's list recieved a 3-5 point discount, plus anyone can replace (state "replace) a CCW or BP with a Chainaxe for 1pt.