Horus Heresy General /hhg/

I'd love a novel about the Solar Auxilia. I know HH is always marine-focused but it'd be cool to see the perspective of regular Army troopers when the galaxy is being torn to pieces by gene-crafted gods and supermen.

Descriptions about how the Astartes inspire 'transhuman dread' in ordinary human enemies sounds interesting, it'd be cool to see how the elite of regular humanity deals with that sort of thing, and Hive gangers or Agriworld farmboys stuffed into armoured space suits and shipped off into a war between demi-gods fought by legions of genetically enhanced, brainwashed killers has an underdog appeal, like the Red Army against the Wehrmacht but the disparity between the forces exaggerated to an absurd degree.

Frankly the fact it's floundering at all suggests their corporate culture was utterly fucked to begin with. Who knows if they'll be able to get their shit together since they clearly didn't have it together even before he passed.

You can do it, but it’s not great. First of all, definitely run 3rd Company Elite because Kakaphoni need relentless or they aren’t worth it. But the problem is that all your bonuses are related to getting in close and assaulting, but you’ve covered the table with difficult terrain markers.

So not recommended.

I see it as being in a lull. Book 7 had major issues, and while Thousand Sons have turned out to be mostly okay (and very good looking), Custodes have been annoying and Space Wolves took a whole year to start getting their special (and ultimately disappointing) models. Rhino doors haven’t set the world on fire, either.

I think we’ll also have a permanent reduction because a lot of 30k players were disaffected 40k players who are now happy enough to go back. And that’s fine, it means we’re back to being a small niche.

But… events seem to be going well, especially in the UK and Scandinavia, and what’s coming up from FW sounds great. The Termite could really shake up the meta, and hella players are waiting for the Blood Angels. The Weekender brought back some of my faith.

Personally, I just need to figure out this parenthood thing in order to squeeze in hobby time but still be awake enough to not suck at work. I’m only doing anything one or two nights a week, and so far it’s mostly been learning to use this airbrush. Little by little though...

Sevatar’s rules are garbage, unfortunately.

I haven’t seen any examples but I’m asking around. Mostly you have to pick their mode of transport. Spartans and Land Raiders (Pride of the Legion, Armored Breakthrough, Sacrificial Offering), Dreadclaws and Kharybdises (Orbital Assault), or teleport while other stuff starts on the board?

Don’t use Sevatar.

Take mosty 10-man squads so that you outnumber a lot of the time, though you can justify a 5-man squad in a Dreadclaw to come on later from your reserves.

They tricky thing is choosing when to use a Kharybdis or just teleport them down. Teleporting means you get to spend your first turn shooting or running. If you shoot (take combi-weapons), you’re vulnerable to pie plates, and if you run then you only have a 5+ invulnerable. I feel like a Kharybdis or two are still a good idea for the assault specialists, with your praetor. Teleport the shooty guys.

Agreed. I'm about to finish Nemesis, and some of my favourite parts about Scars, Thousand Sons and Legion was the human parts. To see how Astartes are viewed through the lens of regular people is a great change of pace from the rest of the HH books. I love how Ilya Ravallion in Scars get so pissed off with Astartes for being so un-human. I've read some reviews were they hate the perspective of humans because they find it bland and uneventful, but I think that kind of stuff really adds an extra layer of dimension to the HH period.

>pic related, Ilya Ravallion is boss

Hey Chad-user, post more pics of yourself, your cat and your qt goth gf.

Calling me chad-user just denied you that, friend.

Ah crap, I should have been more polite.

dude, its pretty weird you to ask that. either op wants to do an ama or they don't.

was a joke fella

Reminder that Clearbasing is for suckers.

youtube.com/watch?v=PJjah_kvGc8

Well yeah, if you're in a painting competition or tournament, if one guy's actually based his minis and the other guy is using clear bases, the guy who did proper bases should be scored extra for them. How could anyone honestly disagree with that?

But for just general gaming? Nothing wrong with clear bases and yeah, it can look better done properly because the bases never mismatch to the table.

What is this pulley and chains thing supposed to be on the backs of Solar Auxilia troops?

grimdark breathing apparatus maybe?

>just put some gears on it and call it Solar Auxilia.jpg

I fucking hope that the breathing system for suits designed for void and hostile environments is not a bunch of exposed chains and gears that could jam up from any random clutter getting stuck in

Those gears are only on the axe dudes. I thought they might be like a generator to power the axe, but the weapon doesn't have cabling to connect it to the suit.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

maybe it's helping generate force for swinging the weapon arm

Maybe there's a little space hamster inside running the power the shoulder lamp on his left shoulder?

They're also on volkite veletaris, but not command squad or lasrifles. Maybe just a vet thing?

Those guys also have shoulder lamps, while rifle and command sections do not. I guess the lamp generator idea might be closer to the truth than I imagined.

what's the easiest way of painting patterns like these?

A. paint the pattern color, then mask and paint the model

or

B. paint the model, then mask/protect the model and paint the patterns

In my experience white over red is horrible to do, it requires so many layers to cover it up properly, so I'd strongly recommend painting red over white.

I'm airbrushing. I'm asking what's the easiest/most effective way to mask the shapes.

What do you mean by painting the pattern colour before painting the model? I don't understand what the process you're describing there entails.

As I understand it, the logical thing to do is to paint a pattern stripe over a basecoat, it should be easier to fix too, if you get something wrong.

using the picture as an example:

1. paint the general area where the pattern will be in red.
2. then mask the exact shape of the pattern.
3. then paint the white.

Oh. No, that's not sensible at all.
Even leaving aside that white is the base colour for the majority of the model (and a harder colour to paint over another), the way the masking tape would have to be deployed is counter-intuitive.

If you want to cover the outside of the area of the pattern, you'll need to cover more surface area, and the masking tape will have to be "facing inwards", which is much more awkward and leads to overlap.

If you do it the other way, you can cover a sufficient border area around the inside of the pattern, which gives you a clear are that you have to get right.
If you do it the way you described, you would be turning a portion of the task that requires concentration on a small area into a task that requires attention to the whole model.

Is it possible to beat Custodes in Zone Mortalis?

What are you currently fielding?

Stone Gauntlet

Wow.
Well, maybe Siggy would do good?
Templars are pathetic for dealing with anything above unarmed marines, but IF Terminators might do good? A squad with shields and a primus medicae?

Yeah, Ilya was great. Never knew anyone had tried to draw her - that pic works well.
But she was good for a couple of reasons that don't always happen
>good author
>also plenty of story from the legion's perspective

Kasper Hawser (named after a real guy with a crazy story!) in the Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns stories wasn't as enjoyable because we got too much through him and not enough from the Space Wolves' perspective. It was also less believable that he'd be introduced to all these high-level figures, especially at Nikea. Ilya was high enough in rank that meeting the Khan was logical enough, and anything beyond that was written as being purely incidental, like when Horus barges in to talk to Jaghatai and they totally don't care that she's in the room.

I liked the humans in Fulgrim; I know that's not a universal opinion. Not sure about the ones in the opening trilogy - maybe we got a little too much of them.

I think it's easier to paint the red first. I'm starting White Scars too, and also starting to airbrush, and I've realized that masking the entire model to paint accents blows. Next time I'll do the metallics and red first, gloss varnish the red (better surface for the masking tape to seal to, protection against peeling off), mask, then spray my brown to khaki to white.

Haha no

Any Oculus Imperia fans here?
youtube.com/watch?v=k6nbsdYdVqo

Yes, with Custodes

Yes, I like it.

Guys what even is the difference between a melta, las, volcano and a volkite beam? I know the effects are different but they're all just lasers right?

1500pts Zone Mortalis WE force, what would you bring?

Red Butchers would be good right?

Nth for the unforgivable truth.

Samara's better.

Melta - "beam" of accelerated sub-atomic particles that readily shatter the bonds between normal matter, reducing it to molten sludge.

Las - Laser, as you'd expect. Mostly likely a high-energy pulse laser, because continuous beams are a pain in the ass in table-top rules.

Volcano - Same as Las, just way bigger.

Volkite - Thermal energy weapon, maybe a mix of infrared and microwave lasers, simply described as a thermal energy ray in lore.
Basically overheats the target explosively causing stuff to be set on fire (that's the deflagrate rule in a nutshell). Fires a more semi-continuous beam, unlike the pulsed nature of conventional las weapons, especially true for the larger super-heavy Volkite weapons.

What are some of the more unconventional army types are there for 30k?
I'm talking something oddball, but not intentionally cutting its own legs off.
Something fun.

...

Siege Tyrants and Sniper Vets could probably put them down.

I find Red Butchers to be too slow for Zone Mortalis. Bring Gahlan Surlak, some Inducti, and whatever else you feel like.

If you had to list the Legions in order of competitiveness what would you put where?

What do you guys think about Blackshields?

best legion best waifu

Custodes
Thousand Sons
Iron Warriors
Solar Auxilia
Sons of Horus
White Scars
Iron Hands
Ordo Reductor
Alpha Legion
Death Guard
Taghmata
Night Lords
Word Bearers
Blood Angels
Cybernetica
Ultramarines
Raven Guard
Emperor's Children
Imperial Fists
Salamanders
Space Wolves
Dark Angels

Good post, thanks. So melta is much more heat-focused while las is a pew-pew light beam? It looks from the wiki that volcano cannons are titan- class lascnnons

Does anyone have any phosphex?

the primordial truth

I feel both ashamed and pretty happy about Iron Warriors being so high up.

It could be a power pack to feed the armour's servos and rebreather and...stuff?

Were is cults and militia and why isn't it at the top ?

Put sisters of silence at the top and you're good.

I thought the name made it pretty fucking obvious he was going to be the plot twist.
>"Benefits of a classical education"

Considering I listed them all in one go off my memory I'm satisfied u only forgot two things.

Militia are indeed pretty high and Sisters are somewhere in the top ranks.

Keep in mind some of my choices are based on how certain armies can spam their way to victory. Lots of them are one trick ponies and fall apart outside of that.

I do something like this for my WE (basically the FW store scheme), and when I start painting my WS they'll get the more advanced stuff. What I do is lay down the white, then when dry put painter's tape and paint the red. Red goes over white a lot easier than white over red. I use a brush if that matters, counter to this guy and his airbrush

just got some the other day. Hopefully it makes WS/IW patterns easy.

tamiyausa.com/items/paints-finishes-60/finishing-supplies-62000/masking-tape-6mm-87030

yup, very comfy channel with tea and some models to work on. hopefully he does one on the XX around the time Alpharius/Lernean drop for maximum comfy

I love them. Once I finish my main army I plan on kitbashing my leftover bits to make a small raiding force. The modeling opportunities alone are quite enticing.

I mostly agree. I think I'd say:
Custodes
Thousand Sons
Ordo Reductor
Solar Auxilia
Iron Warriors
Sons of Horus
White Scars
Dark Angels
Death Guard
Iron Hands
Alpha Legion
Taghmata
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Cybernetica
World Eaters
Night Lords
Ultramarines
Imperial Fists
Raven Guard
Salamanders
Word Bearers
Emperor's Children

Militia can range from being the worst to being in the top 5, depending on what you spam.
I really don't know about Sisters of Silence. I think they're top-10 because of Acquisitors, but only because of those.

I don't think Space Wolves are bad because Grey Slayers are strong due to having more and cheaper upgrades, and they get mobility bonuses from their Legiones Astartes rule. Dark Angels are a tough one to place because they have great rules plus one very strong drawback, so they're swingy. I think their wargear and close combat bonuses against other marines are a big deal. And I'd say Night Lords tend to struggle against armor so I don't have them as high.

I think of melta weapons as a supercharged heat gun; you'd see a 3"-thick stream of hot air, maybe with a bluish tinge like the flame coming out of a torch.

I agree with on las- and volcano.

Plasma would be a pulsating ball of blue superheated matter held together by a magnetic field that splashes when it hits.

Volkite is the least realistic. I do see it as pulsed, i.e. firing red rings of silliness that cause whatever they hit to heat up suddenly.

Out of interest, what's getting the sons of horus so high for both of you? I've heard a lot of moaning about how weak they are. Is it that build they can do with lots deepstriking/outflanking BS5 combiweapons?

What’s the purpose of introducing Solar Auxilia?
>armoured elite troops
Seems like a niche already filled by Astartes.

Long march Row is stupidly good

In fluff terms or game terms?
In game terms:
>100pts for 20 lasguns
This about sums it up.

In fluff terms, though, I hate using the word realistic to discuss anything Warhammer related, but Astartes really only make sense as a rapid assault force. Power armour won't do shit against a missile, lascannon, or most other heavy weapons. They only really provide defense against light small-arms fire. This doesn't negatively affect them since their speed, stamina, and overall mobility allows them to avoid the really dangerous shit and keep the fight right in the enemy's face. If a squad of something like guardsmen have the distance and coordination to concentrate their fire on a single marine, he's probably going to die. But take a squad of marines and have them all charge and the concentrated threat and damage they can unleash is hard to counter. If they're fighting correctly, that is.
Honestly, Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists have the shittiest possible specialties for a marine. Marines only really work if they're mobile, concentrated, and using surprise and extreme local violence. Using them in a long siege, on either side, is just a waste since any old artillery shell will pulp the fuckers.

And that's where non-Astartes come in. Astartes aren't really built for holding a line, they're built for cutting out pieces of the enemy's line with extreme prejudice. The early Imperium had a range of regular humies to do the rest of that warfare stuff, and Auxilia are a good half-way point between shitty grunts and the Astartes. They're skilled and equipped well enough to beat a fair number of human-level enemies, but are cheap enough that they can be comfortably used in rolls that will, by necessity, result in unpreventable casualties.
You could have a thousand marines defend a hill, but half of them will die from a heavy artillery barrage, or send a thousand Auxilia. Sure, 500 of them will die, too, but 500 marines cost waaay more than 500 auxilia.

They were weak before the 2016 update to the red books. Now they’re great. Reavers are still expensive enough that if you take them you’re probably softening your list, but you can afford to.

>Word Bearers above Blood Angels
>Blood Angels
>The Legion that can spam Assault Cannons
>Below Word Bearers

Elaborate your reasoning.

Some dude made the models, so fuck it, we SA now.

>armoured elite troops

They're not that elite. They make like a quarter of the Army's fighting strength, according to their fluff (God forbid FW ever made something that wasn't the best of the best, never before seen thing).

Definitely, too many human characters are simply just foils and exposition. In Nemesis the assassins, though not 100% human, really allow readers to explore the world in a manner Astartes could not. Also allows us to truly understand how monstrous and terrifying Astartes truly are. If done well, its good, if done for plot convenience, they're crap.

good stuff. i really like how he kinda presents himself as someone from the 40k universe giving a recount on matters. especially parts that sound a bit propaganda-ish. real fun stuff.

if your a player who adheres to one of the principles below, you're going to love blackshields.
- really loves the ideas of 'my dudes',
- really loves converting and kitbashing
- likes being a special snowflake

Rules wise, they are crap. They got crap toys and you can only use Chymeriae Wrought by War to be anything close to competitive. Marauder squads are pretty sweet though, veteran compulsory troops mix with Chymeriae are work horses of any army. But at high point games, your army falls short against dedicated legionaries.

exactly. astartes, to me, serve the same role as tanks do. immune to small arms, mobile, able to break through strong points, able to support infantry, tip of the lance type stuff. strategically they would serve deep infiltration and shock troops. astartes are basically small, versatile and extremely mobile tanks.

that's why it annoys me so much when i read all this stuff about astartes legions conquering stuff all by themselves. you need someone to hold the ground you have already captured, build logistical supply lines, etc. whilst its mostly justiffied by because astartes conquer them so quickly they didn't need to build dedicated supply lines, legions like the Iron Warriors, who are all about attrition, don't have millions of dedicated humans auxillary with them.

>tl;dr astartes should always have with them several million human auxiliary behind them

Demons are bullshit.

Wasn't the point of him being shown around and introduced to everyone was that the SW believed that he was a TS mole and were either feeding him false info or subtly telling Magnus that they know he's compromised.

PB is one of the best 40k books but it isn't a good example of 40k books, you get me?

>EC
>Bottom
>Night Lords
>Low Tier

EC have one of the best rites by being able to choose the turn 3 units arrive from reserve while giving said units outflank (maru skara), they have one of the better sergeant melee options (phoenix spear), Eiodolon is probably the best non-primarch special character (can ID an enemy before they strike with an I7 thunder hammer and has a jump pack making him more mobile than Sigismund), Fulgrim is the best primarch for his cost, and +1 I on the turn they charge is a pretty huge bonus. Also Palatine Blades are a nice unit, but nowhere near top tier, I would probably call them high tier.

As far as melee legions go EC are one of the best.

Night Lords have the best generic terminators hands down due to a mixture of teleport and their talent for murder rule makes any bulky melee units absolute murder machines (raptors can hit WS 4 marines on a 2+ and wound on a 2+ if they have chainglaives). Also fear is good, raptors are mobile and deadly, and Curze's mobility is a huge boon.

>conquering stuff
Marines are best when conquering is best interpreted as breaking things.

>Eiodolon is probably the best non-primarch special character
Dynat isn't quite as good in combat, but his buffs more than make him an auto-take.

To the point that the only reason not to take him is because you're taking Skorr instead.

Yeah, I could've put Night Lords higher up, mostly because of Talent for Murder. Curze is good too.

I haven't found Fear to come into play as often as it should, though. Raptors are way overcosted because they're priced like upgraded old Assault Marines (old, as in before they got their 75pt reduction), and Terror Squads are basically Veterans with more limited options and a specific but fluffy veteran tactic. Having to take three Terror Squads in that RoW, in a legion that encourages full-sized squads, sucks. It's hard to get enough anti-tank in there. Oh, and teleporting Terminators have to stand around and take fire for a turn. I think teleporters are overrated unless you run a few squads, with enough other units in reserve that you can get all the teleporting squads on the same turn.

Emperor's Children... I think we have some fundamental disagreements so we probably won't change each other's minds. Palatine Blades are one of the worst units in the game, imo, difficult to take over Veterans with Weapon Master. I'd rather have a power glaive than a phoenix spear. The game still favors shooting over assault by a small margin... take away random charges and I'd put the EC higher, but I really think they're at the bottom right now.

That doesn't mean they suck - they're only slightly less powerful than 50-70% of the lists. But I think you have to be an experienced player to do well with them, and a player like that will be able to do even better with the other legions.

>Palatine Blades are one of the worst units in the game, imo, difficult to take over Veterans with Weapon Master.
There are three main reasons to take palatine blades (technically four if you consider access to power spears a reason)
>Jump packs
>Charnable sabres, cheaper than power weapon vets but still more than capable of ripping apart marines and rending is even a threat to 2+ infantry
>Phoenix spears, AP2 at initiative is huge especially when striking at I 5 and being pseudo WS 6 due to sonic shriekers
If you are giving them just swords they are overcosted and largely inferior (some special rule differences, IMO mostly in favour of vets) veterans but they have flexibility that melee vets lack.

>I'd rather have a power glaive than a phoenix spear
That is only one legion, EC are the only other legion that has AP 2 on sergeants with no initiative penalty

>The game still favors shooting over assault by a small margin
Then why put world eaters at mid/low tier? They are like EC but getting attacks instead of initiative with worse special units, worse special equipment, a primarch that doesn't buff his army as much, and has a shitty save.

>take away random charges and I'd put the EC higher, but I really think they're at the bottom right now.
Random charges arguably buffed assault armies as they increased the average and maximum charge distance. The fact that you can fuck up a charge sucks but it increased the average and maximum threat range. Besides EC have the crusader USR, the Maru Skara, and the ability to reroll runs, giving them a huge boost to being able to get into melee over other melee legions.

What's the best way to kit a Night Lords terminator squad?
I need help making a 5 man terminator squad and then increasing its size (to 7? 8? 10?).
I'd like to keep their weapons mixed so they can deal with all comers.

I like using them for anti-death star duty. Deepstriking combined with +1 to hit and wound if they outnumber the enemy makes them very lethal vs two wound terminators. In general however treat them like regular terminators while keeping in mind the ability to give them teleportation transponders and the talent for murder rule. This benefits melta weapons for the former (deepstrike behind an enemy tank or dreadnought, even with ceramite str 8 AP 1 into rear armour will fuck up a vehicle) and large squad sizes for the latter.

>I'd like to keep their weapons mixed so they can deal with all comers.
Regarding CC weapons, I generally prefer to go 3:2 Fists to (Single) Claws and 2:1 Power Fists to Chain Fists.

Since we are talking about Night Lords I figure I might as well post my own list

Night Lords: 3000 Points
Rite of War: Horror Cult

------HQ------
Chaplain w/ Tartaros Armour
>Combi-Melta
>Chainfist
>Trophies of Judgement
>Deepstrike
157 Points

Chaplain w/ Jump Pack
>Trophies of Judgement
>Nostraman Chainglaive
>Combi-Melta
>Trophies of Judgement
100 Points

------Troops------
3x 10 Assault Marines
>2 Power Swords
>Nostraman Chainglaive
>Meltabombs
>Trophies of Judgement
840 Points

2x10 Tactical Support Marines
>Volkite Calivers
450 Points

15 Raptors
>15 Nostraman Chainglaives
>3 Meltaguns
545 Points

------Elites------
10 Tartaros Terminators
>10 Power Fists
>Deepstrike
>10 Combi-Meltas
460 Points

------Lord of War------
Konrad Curze: 435 Points

2987 Points Total

Basic idea is a lot of fear, a lot of big/bulky units, a lot of hatred, and any unit can fill an anti-vehicle role. The more specific plan is

>Assault marines clear up chaff units if they outnumber WS 4 marines (each assault marine counts as two guys for this purpose) they hit and wound on a 3+, they also are tasked with dealing with any really big vehicles with their meltabombs
>Support squads clear up chaff vehicles such as rhinos with massed str 6 fire being very effective for this purpose
>Curze joins the raptors with the jump pack chaplain acting as a mobile death star unit rerolls, hit marines on a 2+, elite marines on a 3+, and wound marines on a 2+, plus fear
>Termie chaplain joins terminators, they deepstrike and kill shit with massed power fists, striking marines on a 3+ due to talent for murder

Essentially a double death star list where any unit can kill vehicles.

If you run into serious armor you will have a very tough time.

Assault marines should be able to kill a land raider pretty reliably with their meltabombs, terminators can KO a spartan reliably, and Curze and the raptors can rip up any non-14 rear vehicles without too much issue. Not to mention the combi-meltas and meltaguns which are still dangerous even if the enemy has armoured ceramite.

Reminder that Leman Russ has been confirmed the best swordsman out of all the Primarchs.
>Fulgrim on suicide watch

Confirmed by who and what?