If Warhammer Fantasy and 40K represent fantasy (and space fantasy) through the lens of the aesthetic of 80's metal...

Afro Samurai with more gold.

You could always pull a Def Jam: Fight for NY and just make the opressive upperclass Snoop Dogg.

Honestly, I think it's an inherently modern/postmodern genre. You can't really make it "fantasy".

That sounds pretty potent actually. There's no "Man" to blame. Just guys who came from the same shitty place you did and are now putting you down for their own benefit.

>how would settings look which represent them through the aesthetic of classic rap?

Yeah, the whole concept seems super good for a high-political kind of campaign funnily enough. Something where its all about backroom deals and treachery and constantly trying to grab for power. It's everything people trying to run Game of Thrones style campaigns want their games to be.

Hell, I'd love to run a game like this. A small crew of people climbing their way up by any means necessary while trying to hold on to the reasons they started in the first place. It's compelling.

>the gangsta lifestyle of wearing bling, banging bitches and popping cups in asses.
Which isn't all that far from stereotypical D&D party behaviour - as says, a smaller focus between crews rather than armies fits it well (and similarly, less lone heroes - rap might glorify individuals, but you rarely go alone)

I agree. If we're equating it to rap aesthetics though, somehow "adventuring" needs to be just as harmful as selling dope to society so the upper class has no reason to love these nouveau rich murder hobos.

I play hip hop instrumentals in my L5R game to give it the same kinda vibe Samurai Champloo had.

Just mąkę it as destructive as it should be. That goblin tribe that was taken out was replaced by orks, the Dragon had a matethat got pissed, the litch had a aprentice etc. The Party just kilka some shit and moves on

Rebellion stories have been a mainstay of genre fiction since the 16th century made it cool. Just make the Dark Emperor some kind of convoluted analogy for "the Man" and emphasize the necessity of the poor slaves rising against him.

>so the upper class has no reason to love these nouveau rich murder hobos.
Other than them being nouveau riche murder hobos?

Well there's also the fact that none of them come from noble backgrounds - that's a big thing actually, no-one's a secret prince or got a destiny - and when they DO make it big, at least if it's based on the hayday of the genre, they still don't become respectable, they're just rich.
They don't become lords, or enter high society, and most cash they spend goes down through the ranks of the poor (other than for a few bespoke goods).

A tale of plucky Sylvanian peasants riling up the population against the pasty white Vampire Count authority.

This might be more related to my cursory knowledge of old school rap, but still.

Aliens come to earth in the near future, a future pretty bleak (overopulation, no jobs, climate change even) and start abducting people.
Not necessarily that many, but some.
Earth governements and even earlier failed states find that actually aliens pay pretty good cash (tech, precious metals, fuels, whatever) to have some humans. As they don't kill them but just make them work shit seems like a decent solution to some problems, and gradually everyone sends the indesirables to the spaceships. They wouldn't treat them worse than we do with refugees, right?

Cut.

The Alien Empire, now. Aliens that aren't particulary "alien", hell, they probably could be by some makeup a là ST:TOS, but they still are visibly different from us - not sure how to do it, I'd say space elves (thinnier, better than you) but might be a bit univentive.
Anyway now in the technologically very better than Earth now empire humans are free citiziens. They couldn't retain their cultures and adopted the aliens' and made their own subuculture, and Earth (ironically accessible to them) isn't definitely their home - they do recognize it, tough they still linger to some idealization of the planet.
Of course they still generally live in ghettoes in the megalopolises, doing menial jobs mostly, I think you're starting to get the picture. There is a dynamic of being still human and integrating with The Alien. Now it's probably a better time for them in general, but there is still some definite racism - young aliens at least would accept humans in their workplaces in general, but it will still be stereotypized (imagine things as the black/human nerd as well)
Don't try this in rural planets, tough.
[I would make the aliens in general uncaring but fair: if you need to become a gladiator, which can be a very good career if you manage to stay alive, your contract doesn't fuck you over, but it's strict as fuck]

We wuz Tomb Kings and sheeit

I always thought GW missed a trick with necromunda which is literally about gang turf wars

And royal houses, but that's more black gay culture

>classic rap?
You are black, the white man is keeping you down so your response it to go kill some other black guys who live in a slightly different area of the city. The end.

>And royal houses, but that's more black gay culture
How so?
Other than them being pretty flamboyant and having very nice gear, but that's just nobles normally

Ayo cuz I'ma drop some fucking wisdom on y'all so listen up

Hip Hop fantasy is about staying alive and rising up in a setting where everything and everyone is against you and you have no power to enact any real change, despite how successful or powerful you may become. You will recognize punk elements.

The EMPIRE is a vast, sprawling, urbanized power. If it has rivals they're either too weak to present much more than targets for long drawn out guerilla wars that serve only to grind through young men like a wood chipper, or are powerful enough that open war is avoided and proxy battles are waged alongside a cold war

You are marked out as less than, inferior, by virtue of your birth. Every thing is stacked against you from go, society thinks you're human trash.

Ambition is a virtue and a vice. It drives you to succeed, but it is also ultimately corrupting. The man who finds worldly success also often finds spiritual damnation

>Hip Hop fantasy is about staying alive and rising up in a setting where everything and everyone is against you and you have no power to enact any real change, despite how successful or powerful you may become
Kingdom Death?

ROOTS is important, whether it be your neighborhood, your family, or your people. Often they're the only people you can trust, and the only people you have moral compunction about screwing over. People who forget their ROOTS are considered worthless. Your ROOTS define where you came from and with who. Without your ROOTS, even if you have success you have nothing. A man with success but no ROOTS is a sellout, just another tool of the MAN.

If kingdom death was in an urban environment yes, it'd be pretty hip-hop, especially with all the thick bitches

The MAN is everything that oppresses you. It is the society that rejects you and you simultaneously hate and long to be a part of. It is your economic limitations, your enfranchisement (or lack thereof), and your opportunities (ditto). The MAN will do everything to keep you down, unless you're willing to SELL OUT and win worldly success for yourself - in exchange for keeping down others of your kind or peddling THE MANS influence. No one respects sellouts, but the benefits are hard to argue with.

Faith is sublime, but some people see it as nothing more than a method of control. THA CHURCH preaches perseverance and endurance, but frowns on all the things you gotta do to get ahead - and on the things you'd do with worldly success if you got them. But DA CHURCH can be a important part of your roots and represents a form of support you can explicitly trust.

Unless the pastor is rich. No rich pastor is honest.

PS: old church ladies is always kung fu masters. Always. Old ladies are endowed with supernatural authority and will bust the ass off even the hoodest of motherfuckers. Double so if she's an old church lady or in the choir.

It's a balancing act between trying to satisfy your endless ambition and still hold onto the origins that made you who you are. And yet some will say that these origins are tethers, holding you back from true potential. For as much as your bonds to your crew, your family, and your origins strengthen you, they will be tested as you ascend. Will you hold tight to them, or will they prove the weight that drags you back further into ruin that when you started?

Instead of the Chaos Gods, the big bad guys are the Four Lords of Oppression, the forces used by THE MAN to keep [the people] down: Nurgle, Lord of Ignorance; Slaanesh, Lord of Addiction; Tzeentch, Lord of Bureaucracy and Khorne, Lord of Violence.

Extremely closeted homosexuality and people playing up an "identity" should be integral to the setting or else you don't really understand rap.

okay so I guess demonic bargains are a primary source of magical power, then.

Honestly it sounds a lot like a World of Darkness type of thing but with autistic morality mechanics and blacks instead of werewolves and whites instead of vampires

You can guess that the theme of their counterculture is mostly Da Alien oppressing them, the complex relation with violence and all. It's worth considering that it's definetly not the only part of human culture, tough: while there is no real tradition coming from earth tha could mantain itself, music is probably what stayed alive, for example in "their" version of alien religious rituals.

Now, interestingly enough, at first aliens made humans work in "frontier"/rural planets, and in the not!South of the Empire they still are a great part of the population, but as I said now they're more concentrated in the planetary megalopolises. This reflects asesthetically into the perfectly restrained alien skyscrapers (which basically, as I envision them, are half Lorien and half minimalism, with just an hint of "aggressiveness") vs the humans. Which are oddly enough more "earthly", pardon the pun: more "poor but comforting". Working clothes, but generally comfy, bagging. Rural undertones. Working (physically) together. And yes, the alien benevolent masters.
The Aliens don't particulary like it, but shit like a poorer Hobbit Shire is the stereotype of the "good" human rural village that has some charm. In any case, historically the human is a tamed savage, maybe more sexual, closer to earth, but not bright.

For our not!rappers it's a bizzare mix of this and more sporty/military clothes. And yes, there is the bling, tough not that much. It honestly can have some flauting style - aliens don't do shit like that, at least with clothes.

You know, I entered this thread thinking about WE WUZ KANGS and expecting /pol/. I'm totally happy that this didn't happen, but the fact that basically the only way to do it seriously is... shit, honestly tragic, it pretty sad.

>Honestly it sounds a lot like a World of Darkness type of thing but with autistic morality mechanics
So world of darkness

Rather than WOD I would go with Berserk, because metaphorical corruption equates literal power. But remember that illegality or things we consider immoral aren't necessarily corruption. This is THE HUSTLE. The MAN has no respect for you, so you have no respect for his laws. You don't worry about ripping off suckas or busting mark ass tricks. Pimpin ain't easy but it is a legitimate business. The only things that matter are YOUR ROOTS and THE COMMUNITY. If your actions are harmful to the community, and only then in a less than abstract way, then they are corrupt. Ex, burglary, graft, and violence aren't corruptive - just a part of the HUSTLE (unless you ask DA CHURCH anyway), but slinging dope in the hood is directly harmful and corruptive. Anything that directly affects you and yours, as opposed to society at large. You can otherwise be perfectly moral and upstanding.

"Classic rap" is too wide an aesthetic to narrow down to just one.

Because it runs the gamut from Wu Tang's kung fu flick style, to G-Funk's laid-back LA sunset, to Public Enemy's militarized, regimented style.

Planet of the Apes

>classic rap
>50 cent

Thats a good thing though cause it gives variety and potential. Besides, Warhammer was more based of metal album covers than the metal itself.

In reference to this, FACE is important. FACE is your public perception, how society as a whole views you. FACE needs to be carefully constructed and maintained, an insult to your FACE is just as bad as something that might be true.

What about Classes?

>Thug
The term 'Thug' has a negative connotation in most societies but in tha Hood it means something entirely different. A Thug, or someone who is Thuggin, is an individual who lives by the merits of his will and physical prowess, often at odds with the laws of Tha Man. It could be considered roughly analogous to a fighter or barbarian. The Thug is the heavy, the muscle. This does not mean the Thug is a cretin or some inexperienced hood rat - lots of Thugs come back to the streets after genuine military service/experience and bring their discipline and learned expertise with them - just brains and charisma aren't on the top of their list.

>Hustler
The Hustler is the one who knows a guy who knows a guy. They can get anything or get anywhere by virtue of their connections or specialized knowledge. Often times a Hustlers greatest virtue is their powers of persuasion or bullshittery, as well as their extensive social connections. They sometimes also have practical expertise, but by in large contacts are their greatest strength.

>Holy Roller
The Holy Roller walks the fine line between the UPRIGHT as presented in the chapters of THE BOOK, and the grey morality of the streets. A Holy Roller will typically have an exceptionally strong or unassuming FACE which makes them ideal for avoiding unwanted attention, as well as a strong sense of will. However, they must contend with the necessities of maintaining this UPRIGHT FACE, even if it doesn't match reality.
CONT

>Woke
The Woke is a brother or sister who has freed themselves of the illusions of this corrupt material world. They have achieved TRUE UNDERSTANDING of the nature of oppression and the man, and realize just how deep the tendrils of THE MAN go. Naturally, everyone else think's they're batshit insane. The Woke see's connections where they may not exist, but has an uncanny talent for perceiving reality as it really is beneath the veneer created by media and society. They have increased resistance to the affects of corruptio, and can even SELL OUT while maintaining some of their powers.

>then again it's probably been decades since rap's been about anything other than glorifying the gangsta lifestyle of wearing bling, banging bitches and popping cups in asses
no

Vulkan would have a banana.

Also this.

Actually now that I think about it the Holy Roller is just a different type of Hustler. it should be:

>True Believer
The True Believer is a brother or sister who has fervently embraced a set of ethics or group and found strength of purpose and will in it. Often times they will have special benefits and bonuses related to that group (ex. a Nationalist will have bonuses to combat skills, whereas a Church Goer will have Upright bonuses)

>Hood
The Hood has staked out a particular region or terrain as their own. As long as they're on their stomping grounds, the Hood receive special bonuses to survival, combat, and diplomacy skills; and generally can rely on a few friends to come to their aid in emergency situations. They may have the backing of a local gang or set.

FLOW as a mechanic needs to be examined. FLOW is the concept of success leading to success, victory to victory. When one achieves superlative success, this leads to gains towards the next success. In game-play terms, this means particularly high rolls or excess successes can be banked for further rolls within the same scene.

tl;dr

Thug = Fighter/Barbarian
Hustler = Rogue/Bard
True Believer = Cleric/Paladin
Woke = Wizard/Sorcerer
Hood = Ranger/Druid

Tomb KANGZ and Space Tomb KANGZ.

Flow = Excess successes or overage over target rolls that can be banked and applied to later rolls

Face = Social perception. Gaining respect improves your face; there are many ways to gain and lose respect. High face/respect confers social benefits, and low face penalties.

Upright = How upright you are is how actually 'moral' you are, as opposed to Face which is just perception. Being Upright can have karmic benefits, and low Upright confer karmic penalties. Upright is not necessarily harmed by illegal acts, but no illegal act that benefit you can confer Upright. On the other hand, committing crimes for the benefit of others, or abstaining from personal benefit, or even suffering setbacks can confer Upright.

Would selling out be a bit like rolling an evil party in D&D - going with extra powers, but a lesser connection to the main themes?
Because, I mean, a lot of rappers sold out - for various fortunes, and resulting in various fates

If you wanted to do something more akin to L5R (and there are similarities), these 5 'classes' could instead be rings/stats, with Thug being analogous to Water (Strength/Perception), Hustle being analogous to fire (Agility/Intelligence), Hood being analogous to Air (Reflexes/Awareness), Belief being analogous to Earth (Stamina/Willpower) and Woke being Void.

>Thug affects physical prowess as well as perceived prowess. Thug is rolled to succeed at challenges of strength, intimidation checks, awareness related to urban combat and hostile intentions
>Hustle affects your ability to trick, deceive, or mislead. Slight of hand, persuasion, lying, non-physical intimidation, cutting deals, etc
>Hood affects your awareness of your surroundings and your connection to it. It is used for survival, investigation, general awareness, 'street smarts', etc
>Belief represents your desire and willingness to pursue an ideal, and your ability to suffer for that ideal or goal. Trials of endurance, will, courage, and resisting influence are all affected by Belief
>Woke is ones ability to see the truth of the world free of obfuscation, 'bullshit', or "trickonometry". Woke confers no direct advantages but the knowledge it confers can offer advantages in most scenarios, and should be counted as 'stunt' points.

>Respect is your public perception and affects how well known you are and how positively people respond to you. High respect means others are more favorable towards you depending on your actions, while low Respect means people will generally hold you with disfavor, and moderate respect means others are ambivalent toward you. Respect is a measure of your PUBLIC persona and PERCEIVED success.

>Righteous is a measure of how ethical you actually are, and while it (typically) confers no social benefit (and often times the actions necessary to cultivate Righteous can be harmful to you in the short term), it also represents a form of Karmic acknowledgement that may result in unforseen benefits.

>Fake is a scale that represents how 'fake' you are, that is, how much you've sold out. At 0 fake you real as shit, while at 10 fake you a Sell Out. Being Fake can have unforeseen consequences and with time, even the most respected Gangsta might start to suffer when word gets around about how fake he is. Fake points are generated whenever you act in a manner proscribed by The Man, or against your own personal beliefs or ethics. Fake actions are often highly beneficial in the short term

Rolled 2, 9, 4, 5, 5 = 25 (5d10)

>Papa Swole wants to bust 2-Bit upside the head with a wrench for talking shit about the quality of his bitches. The GM determines that since this is an offensive action (1), and the target is aware of him (1), this is a roll that will require 2 successes of Thug. Fortunately Papa Swole is swole as fuck and has a Thug rank of 5. Papa Swole rolls 5d10. Every roll of 6-10 is a success, and every roll of 1-4 is a failure. 5's are rerolled. All 10's may be reserved as an automatic success on a future roll in the scene to a limit of your Woke pool (which in Papa Swoles case is 2)

Rolled 6 (1d10)

>Papa Swole gets 1 success and 2 failures, and 2 rerolls.

Rolled 10 (1d10)

>and I forgot the 2nd one ffs

>But then again it's probably been decades since rap's been about anything other than glorifying the gangsta lifestyle of wearing bling, banging bitches and popping cups in asses.

...WHat

>with 2 successes and one 10, Papa Swole succeeds in busting 2-bit in the grill with his wrench. Furthermore he banks his 10 as an automatic success on his next roll as 'Flow'

If we're doing this there has to be some mechanics about destroying your opponents image with some prime lyrical gymnastics.

>the absolute importance of being the Best
So rappers are pokemon trainers?

We had something unexpectedly good going on here, fellas. Let's not lose it to memes just now.

But everyone has been ignoring the applesponge until your post?

There are many ways to break down your opponent's Face and Respect, often either by directly upstaging them in opposed tests of the five stats, but also in the ancient form of Freestyle.

Freestyle works halfway between the Oldest Game and a diss contest. Your goal is to entrap your opponent in a situation that forces them to either lose Respect or raise their Fake due to your sick lyrical entrapments. Freestyle tests are performed either by a series of tests played out in turns, in which one side can make rolls in their five attributes equal to their Respect (though they can gain more by raising their Fake, or by Righteous intervention), which then have to be overcome by their opponent. Using the same attribute more than once in a row however eases the difficulty, as that's stale as fuck. Once they have passed their rolls, the opponent goes on the offense. The first to accumulate a set number of failures loses, losing Face and Respect. Or, if your players and GM are badasses, you could always actually freestyle.

Rolling a party of Sell Outs is a whole other kind of game I think. It's like running a game of Exalted as Abyssals, you gotta invert the rules a bit for them. Their values are reversed and the whole game is a matter of trying to keep their Respect as high as possible so that their nature as a Sell Out isn't noticeable.

Could be a reference black queer "ballroom" culture?

Back in the day, queer people (especially of color) had an underground ball culture in which people "walk" (i.e., compete) for trophies and prizes at events known as balls. Some who walk also dance; others compete in drag genres etc.

And people who were apart of certain squads or groups were called "houses". A house was basically an alternate family lead by a "mother" or "father" for queer people to fall back on if shit went south.

Famous houses include House of Xtravaganza, of Aviance, of Mizrahi, of Labeija.

I could see that being a cool "Nobility" theme in an rpg setting.

Shadowrun minus the tech but keep all the anarchy/rebel themes. Corps are some kind of feudal authority that are far more antagonistic.

Well now I just want to run a rap-themed Ravnica game. Be a bunch of undercity scrappers trying to make it big without getting pulled into the Guilds.

I wonder if it's possible to divorce rap from its urban roots. Difficult to make a proper fantasy setting otherwise.

I mean, fantasy and an urban setting aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. It'd just be a kind of campaign that'd be a lot more tied to singular locations and their power structures than a 'traditional' fantasy rpg. Less wide scale adventuring, more exploring the nuances of the local area and its people.

I'd argue that instead of taking an entire major genre of music and comparing to a subgenre in a specific decade, we compare a different subgenre in a specific decade.

Specifically, 2000's horrorcore.

D12's Devil's Night Mixtape, Tech N9ne, Pretty much every Juggalo, Hopsin, shit like that. Maybe if you stretch it you touch artists like Canibus, Eigh8t the chosen one and Die Antwoord. Stretch really, really far? You touch Scottish scheme rap.

Mix all that shit together?

Gotham city-esque hellhole cities occupied by magical cultists ran and filled with slasher movie-esque psychos who dress as clowns, covens of witches, warlocks summoning demons, vampires and zombies feasting at night, with everybody killing and fighting each other as every apocalypse ever looms overhead, barely held at bay but inevitably arriving.

The city is run by the oppressive orwellian police who are as corrupt and monstrous as the supernatural gangs and clown-based serial killers that routinely commit acts like turning maternity wards into charnel houses for the sadistic acceptance of demonic alternate personalities before mowing police and swat teams down with ease.

Cultists linger in the derelict ruins of the outskirts, hunting supernatural beasts and each other as they try to end the word in their own way whilst avoiding attention. Covens live even further out, within the parks and woods and mansions, preying upon the homeless and those who dare to tread too closely.

Vampires, Zombies and Demons exist, waiting to take over the city as the fragile balance crumbles each and everyday.

So we're running a super high-supernatural game of WoD? Hell yes.

A dicepool system with hidden thresholds. After you roll, but before you check meeting the threshold, you can attempt 'bank' any number of the dice that would be sucesses, removing them from the roll. If, after banking whatever number you chose, you still succeed, those dice are added to your banked pool. If you fail, you discard the dice you just set aside instead and also lose that many dice from the pool.

Before any test you can withdraw banked dice at 1to1 to add them to the roll, or withdraw them at 3to1 to add autosuccesses. If you fail a roll you spent any number of banked dice on, you additionally discard that many dice from the pool afterwards.

If your banked pool would go below 0 due to forced discards, The Man adds that many dice to the sellouts' pool instead.

Rewards brinksmanship and risk taking. You always want to cut things as close as possible, to push the limit of how much you can do with how little. A long chain of victories can leave you plowing through everything in your path with a laugh.

But one misstep, one check your ass cant actually cash, and you end up with apocalyptic amounts of egg on your face.

Its a game about rap thematics, not a game about playing as rappers. Warhmmer doesnt typically feature the characters guitar soloing each othe to death, the odd noise marine aside.

Yeah, but to be comparable to Warhammer it needs to be an entire fantasy world, and obviously that entails a lot of wilderness.

Sell-outs get to know their threashold numbers, and they make the decision to spend dice out of tgeir bank after they roll. They have connections that let them know whats comming and enough cover that they can hide a failure long enough to fix it.

But they've turned their backs on creativity and can never bank anything for themselves. They only profit by leaching off the works of others. Sell-outs never bank sucesses themselves and their pools only fill when characters go into the negatives, or by use of certain special abilites that specify changes to their pool.

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An ATLA style setting where spells are literal rhymes and the better the rap the stronger the spell sounds based.

Holy shit that sounds cool

>popping cups in asses.
is that some kind of sex thing?

And for the music?

youtube.com/watch?v=4v1zuIYNoFw

youtube.com/watch?v=ESoAwsjwkzg

youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2yDo8NTbY

youtube.com/watch?v=hu8rwUlSfF0

youtube.com/watch?v=zLogH34gD8s

youtube.com/watch?v=f_4w0pJMC6I

youtube.com/watch?v=eTZHKMaewig

That still doesn't mean it can't be decidedly urban-focused, it just means we have to change up exactly how things play out. Enemies more willing to talk, if only for sick smackdowns and contests. Factions more prominent in the landscape of the setting, despite the relative isolation.

not even "racism", orks are straight up gangsters. everything about them is visual and rising the ranks.

really gorkamorka to be specific.

Aren't Mizrahi a Jewish ethnic group?

Y'know, if you replace "ghetto culture" with "barbarian culture" that whole setup really isn't all that different from Conan style heroic fantasy. You hail from the barbarian culture, so civilized people both admire and look down on you, while you look down on them but want to enjoy the wealth of their culture. At the same time, you don't actually want to become like them, because that'd mean losing the things that make you yourself and a part of your own culture (your barbaric instincts or your faith or whatever).

I mean the Wu Tang Clan are pretty much their own setting

...

>"Yo Conan, what is best in life?"
>"To crush yo' enemies, to drive 'em before you, and to hear the lamentations of the bitches"

Well, shit, now that you mention it, that IS straight-up Conan. I haven't noticed it till now.

You were too busy looking down on hood life to recognize what it is.
Survival, and hopefully success, in an intrinsically hostile world most would rather avoid.

So more like gangsta necromunda

A focus on themes of overcoming the conditions you were born into and striving for greatness.

Amazing Engine: KROMOSOME came pretty close.

it would essentially be dark elf society but without the 80's metal look. Everyone stabbing each other in the back, using intimidation and status to project your social worth etc. I just imagine it being a very cold, dark world. also 50 cent isn't classic rap, he was big in the early 2000's. classic rap is late 80's-90's and has a very dark tone to it (for the most part)