Does this map make sense?

Does this map make sense?

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The Valar who made Ossiriand was drunk, but the rest thought it was funny and let him have it.

The biggest problem with it is that it's horribly empty. U understand that it shows only plot relevant places, but come on.

It might have made more sense before the western half of it was blown up or sunk into the sea.

Rivers do not work that way.

Yes, it's fine. Ofc Middle Earth is a created world, not one that formed naturally, but even so there's nothing on that map that is outright impossible thru physical processes.

The Valar made it, but Melkor fucked shit up for thousands of years, chances are the original design was much more elegant.

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There really aren't THAT many elves, and humans are just barely starting out. Who would be filling it?

Can you explain the issue?
t. Brainlet

Melkor and his struggles was part of original design.

The rivers are fine. They start in the mountains, merge together along their course, and flow to the sea.

Rivers don't split, especially not like at the Mouth of Sirion. And even if you argue it's a delta they wouldn't be visible at the map's scale.

You have Cellon and Gellon both coming from the same source, yet flowing in two totally different directions.

Lake Helevorn should drain out if it really has a river link to the Celion.

>Rivers don't split, especially not like at the Mouth of Sirion.
It's a delta, you retard

>And even if you argue it's a delta they wouldn't be visible at the map's scale.
So you think those trees are drawn to scale?

Seriously though. What map actually makes sense?
I could give you a damn map, tell you to pick a spot on the equator, draw a line from it to the north pole, then have you make 2 more lines each at a 90 degree left turns that are the same length and they'd never meet. If I gave you a globe and told you to do the same thing the lines would meet.
Maps are lies.

>Rivers do not work that way.

Wrong on all accounts.

Rivers do split, but usually not for very long. Exceptions exist, but aside from floodplains are rare and geologically ephemeral. Fair enough, you're not wrong on that. In the case of floodplains, the velocity of the water is lowered to the point that sediment regularly deposits out of solution and the mass of water exceeds the limits of its channel. The net effect of this slowdown (and periodic overwhelm) is that the water ends up routing through many shifting channels, creating for instance a delta. If you have any doubts about the potential size of a delta, look to that of the Ganges. It's big, to the extent that you can load up Google Earth, zoom out to see the full globe, and still recognize it.

Rivers can also rise from neighboring sources and flow in different directions. There are very many examples of this. After all, not every river heads the same direction, so this must be so. If you want to be pedantic, the Little Gelion and Celon actually flow the same direction for a little while before diverging, so I don't even see what the fuss is.

Nearly every freshwater lake has an outlet to the ocean, otherwise they would be endorheic and likely become saline. Clearly lakes don't simply drain out entirely by virtue of this, or we'd have few lakes at all. Lakes form by filling basins, and overflow back into the watershed at their outlet - sometimes during drought the water level drops, and the outlet dries up, sometimes it rises and the lake slowly flows out until it reaches a nice balance again. Think of most lakes as a swollen stretch of river with a deeper bottom.

I'm pretty convinced you're memeing, since "Rivers don't work that way" is the canned response for any map thread. But if not, please take note that you have no idea what you're talking about. I hardly know what I'm talking about, and even I can see you're wrong. Otherwise enjoy your (you)

>pic related, what you get without a "river link"

>Cellon and Gellon both coming from the same source
From the same general area of mountains, yes, but the sources could be utterly different. The two lines don't actually start at the same point.

>Lake Helevorn should drain out if it really has a river link to the Celion
So you're telling me no lake anywhere in the world has an outlet?

>Rivers don't split

Yes, they do.

>especially not like at the Mouth of Sirion

It's a delta. The map clearly isn't built for scale, or half the rivers would be invisible.

>both coming from the same source, yet flowing in two totally different directions

Rivers can do that. A real-life example is the Danube and the Rhine. It's all about the topology of the land.

>Lake Helevorn should drain out if it really has a river link to the Celion.

Again, topology. Loch Ness is connected to the North Sea by the River Ness. It doesn't drain out because the river is basically an over-flow outlet: the lake's bed is much lower than the river's bed.

>wouldn't be visible at the map's scale
maps are an abstraction, rivers wouldn't be visible on a map at that scale either

>the same source, yet flowing in two totally different directions
kinde similar situation to the Rhone and the Rhine, check it out

>Lake Helevorn should drain out if it really has a river link to the Celion
what if there's an underwater source?

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It's a world illuminated by two lamps on long poles, you fucking retard. What kind of sense does that have to make?

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. More than I'd expect.

You might be legitimately retarded. I guess you heard all of these things in some world-building or map making threads and wanted to prove how educated you are by parroting them, but one of those complaints actually fucking work for this map.
Jesus.

he was just repeating a tired r/worldbuilding meme. and he should go back
you should go back

>he was just repeating a tired r/worldbuilding meme.
It's not really a meme, it's just that he did not understand what it means. Rivers really nearly never fork, anastamosis, braiding and deltas not counting.
The problem here is that none of the rivers on the map actually fucking forks to begin with.

nice try. but i thought i told you to go back

I always wondered what the politics of Beleriand would have been like if Morgoth wasn't around. Would the Noldor try to Anschluss the other elves? Would the human tribes eventually grow into nations and kingdoms?

bump and good night

If Morgoth wasn't around, why would the Noldor leave Aman?

Fuck those gay swan elves, that's why.

It's legible, that's all you need in a map

Faggots on Veeky Forums like to compete to see who has the most "realistic" setting that obeys all the laws of physics, geology, chemistry, and geography except when it doesn't

As long as your players can tell what the fuck is going on you can just do whatever

I don't really know a lot, just the general rules of making an Earth like planet. Rivers start in mountains and flow to the ocean. It's colder near the poles and warmer near the equator. Mountain rangers can form barriers to weather creating interior plains or deserts.

I do have some problems with Beleriand but they are explained by the story. The mountain rages are weird as fuck, espicially in the North but they were created by the Valar and then fucked up by Melkor. They aren't the result of natural plate tectonics which Middle-Earth doesn't have yet anyway since it's currently flat so whatever.

The other problem, this one a bit harder to explain, is how uninhabited Beleriand is. There's huge stretches of fuck all.

>this one a bit harder to explain
Men only just woke up, Elves fuck like middle-upper class whites, and Dwarves fuck like pandas.

>Make complex continent map
>Realize that all the rivers, lakes, desert, forests and mountains don't work the way I laid them out
>Spend hours learning about proper geography
>Get it done
>Game lasts only a few sessions
>Give up and run a space game

Much easier.

So why did Morgoth win every time?

Numbers, Dragons, Balrogs and his population of orcs were engaged in total war, ALL the time.

Because he's an evil god.

also, Elves are fucking pussies.

generate a custom dorf fort map and use it

He means Melkor and the Valarian Wars fucked up the geography in-universe, not out of it. Obviously Tolkien had ideas in mind for how it'd look.

It probably was more symmetrical at a time, but then for a few thousand years Melkor made the other Ainu his whipping boys before they ganged up on him and what followed were another thousand+ years of war culminating in all of Valinor and Melkor blowing each other up so much that half the continent was destroyed.

There was also a large island, Almaren, that Melkor sank.

Because for a long time he was stronger than everything else in existence combined but by the time he lost he'd weakened enough for defeat.

reminder

youtube.com/watch?v=pXRviuL6vMY

>the "God planned for satan's rebellion" meme
Unfalsifiable but still rather harmful

of what, exactly?

>Elwë, lord of the Teleri, went often through the great woods to seek out Finwë his friend in the dwellings of the Noldor; and it chanced on a time that he came alone to the starlit wood of Nan Elmoth, and there suddenly he heard the song of nightingales. Then an enchantment fell on him, and he stood still; and afar off beyond the voices of the lómelindi he heard the voice of Melian, and it filled all his heart with wonder and desire. He forgot then utterly all his people and all the purposes of his mind and following the birds under the shadow of the trees he passed deep into Nan Elmoth and was lost. But he came at last to a glade open to the stars, and there Melian stood; and out of the darkness he looked at her, and the light of Aman was in her face. She spoke no word; but being filled with love Elwë came to her and took her hand, and straightway a spell was laid on him so that they stood thus while long years were measured by the wheeling stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before they spoke any word.

...

This.
The word "Distributary" exists for a reason. Rivers can and do split, just under more specific circumstances than joining, so it's less common to see it on a noticeable scale, although it does happen. The red river is a noticeably large distributary of the Mississippi, caused by two rivers meandering into each other, forming one river with a tributary and distributary.

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So if the Noldor hadn't defied the Valar and fought Morgoth then he would've defeated the Valar and ruled Arda unchallenged?

>pic
user this is a blue board

what do people do in the salt lake anyway? they bathe in it?

Despite it being a stinky shallow lake, there used to be a few popular resorts on its shore. There are mineral/hot springs in some places, and I suppose people thought the salty water was good for you. Something like the tourism around the Dead Sea. It's so absurdly salty that you can float in it even easier than the ocean, so maybe that was part of the appeal. It's generally avoided now, but it still supports a pretty large brine shrimp industry.

sounds discusting desu

Needs some lake(s), could add a couple small strips of forest in those empty spaces to look better

If he tried to invade Valinor, Tulkas would just have wrestled him into submission again?

I could see the Feanorians trying to take over Ossiriand because fuck it what are those Nandor going to do? Shoot arrows into my shield before I cut their heads off?

What ya gonna do, Morgoth, when Tulkamania runs wild over you?

I love Tolkien.
how can anyone not be enchanted by his stories.

>What ya gonna do, Morgoth, when Tulkamania runs wild over you?
lmao

Morgoth wouldn't have become a problem if the world had been ruled by Tulkas instead of Man(let)we.