/wmg/ Warmachine/Hordes General

So, is khador CID looking good?

The same boring stuff as the rest of Khador. If you want fun, play fun factions.

I find khador fun. Sorry its not your cup of tea bud.

It's boring but adequate. Khador is the most creatively dead faction in the entire game.

Oh horseshit. Control area premeasuring is the same as "I'm going to get max range on every troop with a gun in this unit"

Premeasure and themes killed this game

That way when you have to file mold lines off their faces you get really good at by the 7th model

I mean I like themes but I can see where they have issues though not nearly as annoying as some of the older ones.

They aren't.

Nah, PP killed the game. Everything that people complain about, if put in bullet points, make sense.

PP just implemented everything to shit.
Themes wouldn't have been so bad if it was either creative or released simultaneously. They basically recreated GW codex update problem where there were none before.

Premeasuring guns wouldn't have been a problem if not for the fact that they nerfed the shit out of the tanky medium base armies to ground that countered them and release the worst SR scenario of all time to accentuate the awfulness.

Honestly had they limited measuring to the units activation and the range of their weapon of be fine with it. Cause that makes sense. I loathed premeasuring in 40k and I loathe it in warmahordes

Well that's just personal preference then. Also measuring only from activation basically defeats the purpose of premeasuring.

40k premeasuring was fine as soon as variable speed started existing with running or charges. It's not possible to predict 40k stuff exactly.

Wmh dragged it due to demand for machine precision on every model

Very fair points. And yes it is largely personal bias but I'm firmly in the camp of pre measuring being something that shouldn't be used or if it is only in a limited matter.

Those new Bloodgorgers though, kinda want but not for that price just yet. Also, that troll chick scares my boners away. I think they did it right with her design.

Oh ye gods, what the fuck did they do to blood gorgers? Why is it so fucking skinny?

>Le silly whelp
Why the fuck is that shit in Cryx?
At least the ogruns don't look like shit

If you are talking about that one up top in the middle, that's a chick.

I think he means the whelp on the base.

Greylords are the most fun ever.

So when are we getting those two Satyxis solos? Maybe the fucking satyxis theme will become viable once those two get released.

She's bad too but look at the gorgers on the right. Look how thin their thighs and biceps are even disregarding the comparative mass differences between fore arms and bicep.

That's some fucked up anatomy. And don't try to argue that trolls have cartoon bodies with wildly different proportions. No they don't. Trolls have same proportion as humans barring two exceptions: their forearms expand rather than taper so a person with baseball gloves would have the same arm length and their mouth level is at where our nose would be.

To be fair, those trolls are supposed to be corrupted with blight, which mutates those it inflicts.

Not discounting your points at all, since I don't think what you're talking about was intentional.

Or let me look.

The issue I have is that trollkin sculpts have gotten real fucking inconsistent over the years. Dugas was basically only one who consistently made good troll sculpts.

Also everblight was the only dragon who could mutate things beyond edgy horn growth, but that's just fluff so who cares.

I just get annoyed with things like gatormen and troll sculpt because it feels like they have no design documents and zero quality check.

Everblight was the only one who could actually control his blight and how it mutated. For all the other dragons, the mutations are just entirely random.

I see what you mean with the three on the right having the Pop-Eye arms thing going on. It doesn't really bother me.
Now I want some fried chicken.

Why Gatormen tho?

Literally nobody has this problem in real life.

If you keep losing on clock every game because you premeasure too much, stop premeasuring so fucking much.

I like how they are basically the same as the old ones except they turned one into a woman.

Wasn't this game dead?

Clock wins are best wins, number one.

And number two, you just have to think about it another way. If your opponent fucks himself on clock in a tourney, there's less brainpower and effort you had to put into your win, giving you an advantage in later rounds.

If your opponent wants to fuck himself on clock, grab a chair and a drink and let him while you relax.

No.

Compare old posse and new posse.
Secondly look at all the latest solos for blindwater vs witch doc croc, maelok, Calaban, Barnabas 1. Proportions are radically different and heads on the new models are gianormous.

It's very jarring

>Clock wins are best wins, number one.

the absolute state of Warmachine players. Satisfying ends to games don't mean anything, just a measure of time is all. You are the cancer.

Yes, it's in its death throes.

Man, those are fucking awful. What's up with the skinny fucking legs? how fucking inconsistent can they be with sculpting?

You mean this. Honestly I like the new Gatormen and from what I have seen they are very consistent in proportions and style. That they don't fit with the old sculpts já unfortunate but I woudln't want PP to be tied by something made more than a decade ago.

Unlike trolls where even newest sculpts are all inconsistent among themselves and don't fit together very well.

Skinny legs aren't the only problem. The knees together "I gotta pee" pose is just exacerbating the problem. I bet you can sculpt the famous Marilyn Monroe over vent pose on that model.

Goddamn those make me angry

The people who started in Mk1 and are diehard fans are in denial and will say its fine, but it's fucking dead. They botched Mk3 and took all the things that made the game fun.

A lot of the fun of writing lists and testing them then tweaking and making lists your own them was killed by themes.

A lot of the tension/excitement of only roughly knowing threat ranges and the chance of failing a charge or misjudging your opponents charge range was killed by premeasuring.

PP decided to being dicks to third party stores by limiting their discounts and increasing their prices without increasing the quality of sculpts of their models.

The community basically only ever plays 75pts Steamroller and will MAYBE give you two or three games to get the hamg of things before resuming their normal super competitive playstyle and you'll just get utterly destroyed for like the first year you play. But its sold as a competitve game so they use that as an excuse to curbstomp everyone if they can.

So now what we have is a bland, boring, expensive game with ugly models and a community that is unapoligetically super competitive and won't make exceptions for new players.

So yeah, the game is fucked. It's unwelcoming to new players and themes and the expense are putting people who left off returning and it's current players won't be around forever.

You sound like the user that was complaining about scenarios last time.

No.

Just no. Mkiii is a dumpster fire but you are wrong or commenting on irrelevant tangents as if they are related. Please stop.

Hi, so I'm planning on starting the game with Protectorate of Menoth (pls no "ded game", a lot of people play it around me) and I'm looking at some of the starter warcasters so I can choose who to start with.

Can someone explain High Exemplar Kreoss to me? I get that he's anti-magic, but he seems extremely limited if my opponent doesn't have a lot of upkeep spells. What would an average turn look like, is it just trying to get within 14" of the enemy general?

Like all "starter casters", Kreoss1 has one or two schticks that are pretty easy to wrap your head around. The idea is that he can be played effectively with a relatively basic understanding of the game. In the case of Kreoss, it's oppressing your opponent's ability to cast any spells while you angle for an optimal feat. Menoth's Wrath is your primary win condition, so your general strategy is going to be attrition until you see the right moment to feat and assassinate the enemy warnoun or mangle their entire army.

Does Kreoss have some bad matchups? Of course, but nearly every list in the game does. Purification can vary in effectiveness depending on whom you're up against, but you'll find it (or the threat of it) useful far more often than not. I wouldn't discount Lamentation either - using it without overexposing yourself is possibly even more important a skill than timing your feat turn.

Again, Kreoss1 is a beginner warcaster, which is why he was included in the battlebox for mk1 and mk2. As you gain experience, you may want a caster with a bit more turn-to-turn interactivity beyond asking yourself
>am I feating this turn?
>am I using Purification?
but don't confuse that with weakness. Kreoss has been around since Warmachine launched, and he's always had a spot in the roster.

Ok, I'm not a PoM player, but I've been looking at the faction and at Kreoss1.

So, Kreoss1 is most famous for his pop and drop, which basically amounts to popping feat on the enemy caster, knocking them over, and then shooting them with everything to kill them.

Beyond that, he's a bully/denial caster. The big part of his feat is that if you're not using it to assassinate, then you can just straight up deny an opponents turn with it. Knocking over a shitload of infantry, for example, can just flat remove their ability to do anything on the next turn.

Beyond that, the anti magic can be powerful. Even without upkeeps, Lamentation can cause a lot of issues with some casters, and Defender's Ward is one of the best defensive spells in the game.

But in general he's hanging out in the back, passing out buffs, popping Purify when he needs too, keeping a high value unit alive, and feating when it's going to do the most damage or kill the enemy caster.

So i just got a lot of bloodgorgers and black ogrun boarding party on the cheap. It feels like bloodgorgers are meant to clear out infantry with gerlak, then boarding party try to pull lights out of the way or pull the enemy wardude into assassinate.
With gang fighter and cryx debuffs etc it really feels like even a deathripper is a huge threat, mat 7 on the first attack, then just keep buying sustained attacks.

I got some advice that said "pick 3 casters, stick with them until you really learn the game" initially i was thinking that would be denny1, venethrax and scaverous. Now I'm wondering if i want to focus on slaughter fleet raiders maybe i should focus on Aiakos2 rather than denny1? Denny is popular and used to be busted as all hell, but Aiakos could teach me assassination stuff and im sure most people wouldnt mind me using his model as aiakos1 who can be taken with slaughter fleet.

I guess what im really asking is how to cryx without banes or satyxis.

So some friends are getting into the game. One is playing grymkyn, one cygnar and one circle. I've been looking over the factions and I'm trying to decide between protectorate of menoth, khador and trollbloods. I've been over their battle college and 1d4chan pages for both lore and tactics and I still can't decide.

Can you guys try and sell me on one of them?

Tell us what you like from a gameplay standpoint. All three factions Are tanky but differ in reasons why. None of them is known for alpha strikes and mobility.

Fair enough.

I like the idea of "weathering the storm" from a gameplay standpoint, being able to face anything and keep standing. Synergy is usually important as well, I like my units to play off each other but still be able to work 'alone' with some exceptions, like pure support based units.

Of the 3 factions I mentioned khador is probably the lowest on the list, really like their jack and man o war design but from what I've read that isn't really their focus.

That does sound a lot like Trolls.

This is depressing.

They sure are. Its a classic PP box, you get around 3 sets of copies and one unique champion model.
Its made this was as it is cheaper to produce simple as that. And they get away with it by turning the models slightly so that its not that obvious.

privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cryx/units/satyxis-raiders-sea-witch
> Model Materials: Metal, Resin

Aiakos2 is generally considered to be very bad, even at assassination.

Denny1 is still very good, and she supports just about any army and list. You won't go wrong playing her. She's even a better assassin than Aiakos is, 90% of the time.

What size are the mats that come with the battlegroups? I wanted a cheap mat for playing games with a friend.

Just because you actually managed to kill the discussion on tg with your constant shitposting doesn't mean the game is dead or dying.

They're like two feet square. Super small.

Yeah, what you described sounds a lot like Trolls. The Trollkin faction is replete with buffs and really loves stacking them to turn their beasts and heavy infantry into top tier brawlers.

>Of the 3 factions I mentioned khador is probably the lowest on the list, really like their jack and man o war design but from what I've read that isn't really their focus.
If you like Khador, I wouldn't discount them over this. Running jack heavy is extremely viable in the new edition, Khador players just spamming Juggernauts ruled my meta for a little while. And while the MoW offerings have long been considered suboptimal, they're currently getting a pretty comprehensive buff.

No, you're right.

Everyone in my group not wanting to play the game and the other players in the wider community slowly dropping the game means its dying.

Really? He looks fun though damn. Not that i haven't liked denny1, but i feel like i liked her because it felt good to absolutely crush despite not understanding the game at all. I know she's still good, but i do prefer underdogs usually.

He's got a terrible defensive statline even though he wants to play far forward, which means it's super easy for him to die, and if you protect him he's not doing shit.

He's got a bunch of random buffs for warjacks, but all his BG threats are very linear. So while you out threat them, they can pretty reliably judge that threat and react accordingly. Plus you have the problem above where he doesn't want to play that far forward so he can very easily be outsped by his battlegroup.

Drag on a small base model is super cornercase, so his gun does very little against a majority of the board.

You'd likely have some success with him if you're with other newbies, just because he does send shit flying forever, but that's really all his does, and once you know how to deal with it, it's mostly over.

Linear threat? Cryx has stalkers and scavengers though that he gives +3 speed to and he can throw models with white squall out of the path of his things charges, which can be at potentially +5 speed.

The problem is a lot of faction descriptions on the internet are outdated Mk2 leftovers. Khador is definitely able to field a jack heavy force under many casters.

Based on what you said I would advise you to take a look at trolls, if you like the aesthetics. They are the premiere brick/defense faction with enough power to strike back. Do mind two things tho: Trolls have the troll tax - everything is at least medium base, that means most of their stuff is more expensive. It's more of a problem for new models, which aren't really needed, but you should know about that. Second thing is that the battlebox for trolls is really bad and just not balanced against other battleboxes.

And don't get discouraged by haters here. Our meta is thriving with regular gaming nights and tournaments. It's all about the people.

No, the game is effectively dead. It's post apoc scenario for wmh. Communities that survived the fall are managing but there are massive wastelands filled with dead communities.

40K was effectively dead until last year so I expect WMH to make a come back so long as PP learns from their mistakes.

Very briefly tried the game back in MkII with some starter matches and had fun. Never committed to a faction and never took the plunge. Looking back at the game, could do with some advice.

Aesthetically I love Trollbloods and Convergence. I believe I understand the basics of both factions. I would appreciate some input from more experienced players.

My main priorities are fun, tactical opportunity and player immersion. I want to play lists that are fun to use and fun to fight against, and that are not based around cheap gimmicks. I want lots of tactical depth that requires me to actually play the army rather than faceroll, but also rewards good play with genuine power.
Any advice for a first-time player for either faction?

You're gonna have to define "cheap" gimmicks cuz every faction has some sort of gimmick and whether or not it counts as cheap is up to you.

Both Trolls and Convergence are attrition factions so if you like longer, draw out games with scenario calling the victory then either of them will work just fine.

I'd honestly say that between these two armies, whichever one has the better aesthetic, and whether you value options inner faction balance, will help decide.

Trolls have been around for longer than CoC and are part of the regular release cycle, so they have lots of casters and themes they can toy around with. Everything from ice and cold themed armies to fire and booze, walls of iron and meat, or regen crazy collossals.

CoC on the other hand are smaller in scope and aren't on the regular update cycle, so they have fewer choices and won't be getting more. However, they're very well balanced internally, though this is more due to scarcity than anything. Reductors are your best ranged infantry because they're your ONLY ranged infantry, not because they're spectacularly good.

TL;DR
Trolls is you like playing ugly models and options
CoC if you like robots don't mind having fewer options

Yeah but it's PP. They don't learn. The state of PP and Kirby GW are disturbingingly similar. Both held by cult fanbase, inability to support but their only successful games, cut community interactions.

I wonder if they ever released a list of top selling miniatures games for 2017? It was 40k then Xwing then Warmachine so I'm curious if that's still the case. It'd make good ammunition for either side of the debate depending on the result.

for the record I play CoC but my old meta had 4 Troll players so I think I can give a good run down of their playstyle

Is Thamar really that bad? She seems nice compared to the other evil gods.

She's not evil. Just very individualist.

She's super selfish and her cult attracts edgy assholes. Acosta notably isn't and uses self focus as motivation for self improvement.

Now Thamar did definitely do some unknown evil shit. Both humanity's sudden burst of magic prowess and rapid decline of Elf god powers have been associated with her.

That comes with the disclaimer that we aren't given actual dollar amounts or where the boundaries lie for sold property.
WMH likely is still the third best selling mini game, but by how much and comparison to last year is still unknown data. Not to mention new edition always sells at first and dies down. Everyone who quit mkiii I know bought a starter at LnL

Stalkers are about the only thing he can use that don't have linear threat, and that has nothing to do with Aiakos's kit.

And he has no hit or damage buffs for them, which severely hinders their ability to actually assassinate.

So when do we get the storyline of Ravyn finding a way to get Scyrah and Nyssor back to Urcaen so they can have a final grudgematch with Thamar over the fate of all elves?

Thamar's religion isn't inherently evil, it's just that putting her teachings into practice has a tendency to result in immorality. One can absolutely be a devoted Thamarite without being a villainous asshole, it's just that a lot of villainous assholes have been historically attracted to Thamar.

She's basically a magical Ayn Rand.

>And he has no hit or damage buffs for them

Not the guy you're responding to, but doesn't he have a hit AND a damage buff? I thoughg Aiakos had Carnage and Scything Touch.

He can give it dark shroud and +2 to hit. On feat turn he can have a scavenger charge 20 inches (22 with the free charge spell) flying over models, so as long as anything has done damage to the caster he will be dropping 11+5d6 damage assuming boost. He can easily have the stalker deliver that first hit whilst having scything touch on it, then just zip those guys over. Thanks to white squall he can clear space for this if necessary removing pesky models.
Objectivism boil down to "its not immoral if you can do it because that means you are better than your so called victim". Ayn Rand is a terrible example of that. Taoism or something would be a better example.

Dead game dead thread

Hopefully never. PP's writing, especially when it comes to divine stuff, is dull as an unsalted brick.

>have a scavenger charge 20 inches (22 with the free charge spell)

Where are you getting this number from?

I live in Seattle and I can’t even get PP staffers to play me anymore

Being half asleep is where. Brain confused run and charge, which it should not have. You would only charge 13 inches, 15 with the spell. Still having a flying 15 inch threat is nothing to scoff at.

They hang out at Bellevue Mox

On top of that i confused slam and charge, so its 11+4d6 with presumably -2 to casters armor and effectively 9 MAT. Not 5d6. It can probably buy another attack and boost the damage after the charge, but you will want either a misery cage or a warwitch siren to help with focus at this point.

Yeah I know, after G&G closed they seem to have lost a lot of their remaining enthusiasm for playing in their spare time

What, you mean to tell me that an egotistical asshole who rode on the coat tails of his game designers got in over his head after his games initial success and completely sank the whole ship after his talent all quit?

You mean replacing everyone competent with useless yes men wasn’t a good idea?

Shocking

To be fair, the Scavenger can run 20" to engage with Dark Shroud, and then have another model (such as a Stalker) under Assail charge the target while still gaining the benefit of the -2 ARM.

Aiakos has potential, but in practice there are usually too many moving parts for the assassination to reliably work. You ultimately come back warcasters like Deneghra1 functioning similarly if not better and being much easier to use.

I just want Ravyn to do something, man.

The Stalker cant fly, its much less likely to get next to the enemy caster unless using jump. I think its better to put scything touch on the stalker, assail on the scavenger. Not only is it easier for the scavenger to get a charge because of flight, the scavenger's big bitey charge is going to do more damage after the stalker has attacked to try and get at least 1 damage on assuming you couldn't scratch earlier.

Denny1 is better at nearly everything, but without the ability to move bubble wrap out of the way that imo is a big weakness to her assassination game. She has to kill that light jack or whatever sitting on your nice convenient spot to land a warjack, aiakos just chucks it away or has withershadow do it for him.

Scaverous is i suppose comparable, with arc nodes you might be able to get feast of worms off for -2 armor on the caster and his telekinesis definitely works for doing stuff similar to white squall. However landing icy grip is harder than carnage, scaverous himself cant attempt a jump in to buy a chain of attacks. Its a desperation move that if you fail will cost you the game, but aiakos can definitely contribute to the kill himself by advancing 9 (on feat turn), jumping in and following up after the scything touched stalker has had its go at softening up the caster.

Denny2 can use hellmouth, which is awkward compared to squall or TK but means she can also produce assassination angles where there were none.

What I'm trying to say is Aiakos' strength in assassination doesn't come from the fact he does the most damage, its from the fact he contributes in multiple ways your opponent has to deal with. His jacks can on feat turn suddenly have giant threat ranges, he can move key models out of position, in rare cases he can harpoon you himself which almost always means he's gonna kill your ass and on top of that his shit (including him) will all be at +2 MAT +2 Damage and if all else fails he can jump at non linear angles to hit himself.

> Model Materials: Metal, Resin
in what percentage?

imo, Aiakos2 succeeds best as an infantry caster, or at least a combined arms one. As tempting as it is to whip dick from the other side of the board with a BG assassination, it's not his forte by any stretch. In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, Aiakos' greatest asset is Carnage. He'll always have a place, even if it's a niche one, because he sidesteps a lot of anti-Cryx tech by utilizing buffs rather offensive debuffs. I've found him to be a pretty good drop against Protectorate for this reason.

Unless your favorite characters are bald and angry or Magnus don't expect good story

Only one I saw at G&G was Hungerford. After mkiii the crowd just evaporated

>tfw mk3 unintentionally killed G&G
Rip evan