So i got an idea for a campaign

>The party is actually triplets all born exactly 16 years ago he doesnt know which one is the chosen one so he tries to keep them all in one place.

thats a bit anti-climactic. i planned on having the players hunt the lich, along with certain things needed to kill him, and when theyre right about to kill him, Lich goes
"How could you betray me like this!?"
and then they stop, turn, and figure out that guy is gone, theyve been tricked the entire time and the artifacts they collected are now all his, making him much stronger than before
this probably sounds retarded i guess i just want to have fun with this

i do see the merit in that though, its a decently interesting turn of events

This strikes me as one of those ideas that's a great idea, as in you love having it, but translates into a shit game, as in it doesn't make the game any better and probably gums it up in various ways.

First warning sign: You have no idea what effect it will or should have on the game. You know what effect it will have on the plot reveal at the very end of the game, but for the actual running and playing of the fun thing you're drawing a blank. This suggests you're not really designing a game, you're designing a book that maybe can be made to fit inside your game if you can figure out how.

This is bad.

Ah I see you've discovered the old Final Fantasy Technique of "all the heroes are the chosen one"

Is this guy gonna be one of the NPCs or a Player?

If the latter, then it's a solid idea and you should work with the guy.

If the former, then it could work but it will certainly not go your way. If you want a specific outcome, then don't do it

i see, although i do know what i want him to affect as the scope of the campaign, constantly being a hindrance by being in contact with the Lich who sends his forces after them. and to reveal himself either when they do the whole "storm the castle" thing, or when they figure out its him.
its meant to be me, as im the DM.
my main goal with this is to have the Villain have a more recognizable impact, as well as a personal emotional stake for the players, other than seeing what hes done to his country

>its meant to be me, as im the DM

So you're inviting your steel donut into the party in service of a pre-planned twist which you think automatically has impact because the players are familiar with him.

I'm gonna let you in on a secret: players hate this. Nothing is more obnoxious than the DM forcing you to interact with an NPC. If you do this, one of two things will happen. The first is where it goes well, which means you've changed and adapted the story to suit the players instead of your pet character, in which case the end result will be nothing like what you planned. The second is what you'll probably do anyway, which is keep forcing your retarded plotline because you're obsessed with this twist. Which will only frustrate your players. You're putting the carriage before the horse here user.

i see, ill scrap the character then, i dont want to make the game unfun, ill go with what i originally had, lich keeping an eye on the heroes and sending assassins and the players joining a resistance force, finding the original heir to the throne, and defeating lich and Oc DONUT at the same time

also apologies, im relatively new to game crafting so i want input with this, and since i cant tell the players Veeky Forums is next best thing

Sounds like it's ripped from some C-tier shounen anime.

So the plot to Overlord?

ive never heard of this game, whats it about

You play the Overlord, a giant evil fuck in a suit of armor, who has immense magic power and commands legions of small gremlin things called Minions. The first game is about you, the Overlord, awakening from being killed, and having to rebuild your evil tower after a group of seven heroes destroyed it and killed you. The game follows as you rebuild the tower, regather your lost minions, and spread destruction across the land, as well as face off against t he heroes who killed you, who have, since youre death, become corrupted and twisted
The big twist is you aren't the real Overlord. You were actually one of the heroes, the eighth hero. When the heroes killed the Overlord, he swapped his soul with one of the heroes, and you were left for dead by your allies after the battle, the original Overlord had you revived and put into his position so you could cultivate evil energy to bring him back by causing mayhem and killing the corrupted heroes

oh fuck that sounds great, why does no one talk about this

It's kind of a janky game, not unplayable, but it has it's issues, and it's kind of old. I enjoyed it though. It had a DLC campaign where the Overlord goes to hell, kills the heroes again, and then takes over hell.

It also has a sequel which is better than the first one and is written by Terry Prachett's daughter. Both games have a very dark sense of humor.

interesting, maybe ill look into it, once im done smoothing the imperfections of this campaign out of course

Both games are dirt cheap on Steam and don't use much in terms of graphic intensity, so you should have an easy time grabbing them.

You need:
>1. A plausible reason villain can duck out on responsibilities
Lichbro has his back

>1.a. A plausible reason Lichbro won't just take over the country.

>2. A plausible reason the party won't kick the villain out of the group before you're ready.

>3. A plausible reason the villain wants to hang with a bunch of PCs.

>4. A plausible reason
to delay the reveal.

>5. A plausible way to hint at the villain without revealing it.

>6. A plausible way to execute the reveal that doesn't feel contrived

The good news is this post , provides many of the solutions.

>1.a.
The Lich finds out that, due the exposition of his power, he can destroyed by a hidden regalia of sacred artifacts. The villain volunteers to assemble a team to find them, posing as an expert seeking the regalia to destroy the Lich.
Perhaps the villain plans on using the regalia as leverage or maybe he intends on destroying them.

>2.
By acting as the Quest-giver and expert npc, the party would have need of the villain.

>3.
The villain needs the PCs to retrieve the sacred artifacts due his close association with the Lich, he can't do it himself.

>4.
He doesn't want to reveal the deception until the full regalia is found.

>5.
The villain leak info about the ways the party tries to thwart the Lich along the way, making it clear there is a mole. If they get too suspicious, have the villain murder tge fucj out of a nearby animal, like a raven, claiming it's eyes were glowing red and it must be a spy of the Lich, redirecting the PC Paranoia into the surrounding wildlife.

>6.
You're revealing "the helpful npc/party member/quest-giver was really the true villain all along".
You're fucked.

You got a lich and a Tyrant. So the Lich fucked over the Tyrant, and the the current despot is an illusion or a polymorphed subordinate.

The "real" Tyrant (the player) is alive because reasons (A God Did It, some previous failsafe/plan gone awry.) And basically you trot out a KOTOR on them.

The easiest way to do it is have the tyrant have some sort of face-obscuring armor. This justifies why no one recognizes the despot.

Some hints you can lay down:
First and most obviously, make the tyrant the same class as the hero in question if it matters.

Wait until the player gains certain abilities, and then imply that the Tyrant had these abilities as well. For instance, if the player is playing a Paladin, and ends up taking a couple ranks in Diplomacy, have someone bring up how the tyrant negotiated the surrender of CITY X without even attacking.

Another thing is to play the "recognition game". Have the players meet an enemy NPC discreetly, or from a safe distance. (Like, they're in town, and the captain of the Tyrant's cavalry rides past, and happens to look at the players. Or they're in line from something, or over the next ridge, etc.) Then, have that NPC encounter the party again, and when the "tyrant" speaks, have them recognize the character, but indirectly. They get confused, saying something like "Have we met before?" or "You seem familiar to me..." The party assumes it's from the first time the other person saw them, but of course they are mistaken.

You could have the occasional "roll a luck check" if the party's stymied, and have the player in question "hit the number", and find some hidden path or cache or whatever, playing on the "forgotten memories" angle.

This of course assumes you're using a PC as the secret Hitler. If you're using an NPC...well, it'll come off as a little DMPC-y or kind of dumb without some additional set-up and pay-off.

>If you do this, one of two things will happen. The first is where it goes well, which means you've changed and adapted the story to suit the players instead of your pet character, in which case the end result will be nothing like what you planned. The second is what you'll probably do anyway, which is keep forcing your retarded plotline because you're obsessed with this twist.
This.

I think the villain in the group plan could work a thousand times more often than plotting the perfect end scene at the beginning of the campaign.
It's a fine thing to work towards, but I never script more than one session at a time, loosely plotting the rest of the campaign and adjusting it after every session for the players choices.

funny thing is that thats me, OP, again as i posted before im a bit new to game crafting, but i do a bit of writing on the side

>BBEG and Lich take over kingdom, rule with iron fist
>Everyone knows of some macguffin that can defeat them
>Lost to the ages, and sealed in some chamber that only opens to the "pure of heart" or something
>While Lich rules, BBEG disguises self and starts up a "rebellion" in order to gather traitors and use them as fodder to find and obtain the macguffin to stop all opposition
>Party only ones to join because Lich and BBEG are so threatening no one else wants to stand up to them
>BBEG joins group so when they find and obtain the macguffin he can just stab them all in the back and take it immediately
This way you can hint at the rebellion leader being the BBEG by making him do suspicious things in order to get more information about the macguffin's whereabouts. Of course, it depends on your abilities as a DM to drop hints without the party immediately thinking something's up.

my plan was that mcguffins and artifacts were owned by the previous family, and they were blessed by the gods or held some distinct connection to elder beings. of course they were scattered when they took over, and are held in four points, the obvious cardinal directions.
i never thought of making him the leader of the rebellion, i like that though, and the heroes stumble upon one of the artifacts and thats what catches the Lichs and BBEGs attention

(continuation of )
and its not just that they cant open them because "muh pure of heart" its because theyd have to spread forces thin to do the trials necessary to fight the protection the Royal family put in front of these artifacts