Horus Heresy General /hhg/

>the unit is likely to wipe a unit of 10 cataphractii terminators on the charge.

So do 20 Assault Marines with 4 Power Axes, but they're 370pts instead of 540pts. Add Combat Shields and you're still 100pts cheaper than the Raptors, but significantly more durable and aren't utterly fucked if they get charged or come across any unit with a Boarding Shield (as it is, you massive Raptor star will be scary until someone charges some Templars or Phoenix Spear Palatines or even just Terminators with Claws out of a Land Raider that you can't kill). At least drop a bunch of the Chainglaives, you're going to lose at least 5 out of a 15 man unit on the way in so leave 'em as basic Chainswords.

>swords let me strike at initiative
And hit the Artificer Sergeant. If you challenge him out, you get to hit the Artificer Consul/Apothecary. AP3 is worth jack shit in melee.

>literally no downside
If you like eating Overwatch from the 11" charges you have to attempt, sure.

>at least knock off a couple hull points if it has ceramite.

So knock off a couple hull points. For melee, if you're deepstriking mad close to stop your opponent just casually walking away from you, you're going to get Fury of the Legion'd or Phosphex Bomb'd or, hell, the guys in the Land Raider will just disembark and charge you themselves, assuming it's 5 basic bitch enemy Terminators they're going to kill nearly half your unit even without shooting you beforehand.

No oceans, how fucking depressing.

Edgy.

Chainglaives are for Sarges and HQs mostly. I dunno if terror squads can take all glaives.

Assault marines can take melta bombs as well.

Will it be more safe to simply change them to Chain axes and count them as power axes in 30k?

Not a good idea, chain axes and power axes are competely different.

Also no Night Lord unit has access to chain axes IIRC, only chainswords. Axes are a World Eaters thing.

awwn, what could i do with them? they're 20 bodies.

You can't field a unit of them legally, but you could use them as Sargeants and HQs. You could also make a command squad unit, but you need a banner as well.

Where did you get all those chainglaives? Forgeworld?

I kitbashed them, i had some normal Chaos Space Marines and a friend gifted me some FW Terror squad kits (Chests, helmets and shoulders) and since CSM are kinda bad and Zerkers are good now, i kitbashed the chainswords into chainglaives instead of buying chainaxes, i tought it was more Nostramo than chainaxes...

It's a cool idea, it's a shame you can't field it as a complete unit in 30k.

Do you have pics of them? It would be nice to see.

Talking of sneaky, would appreciate some advice on my Raven Guard Praetor.
All of my Praetors are modelled with Cameleoline Cloaks and it gives some obvious importance to the models. I am unsure if I should give it to my Jump Pack Praetor.
Ruleswise he cannot take Camo Cloaks but there's no reason it can't be an aesthetic one. How does it look in terms of both RG and Jump models?
Inb4 Edna memes

It looks good. The cloak aesthetic works for ranked positions.

Let me take a few, i've been looking for a excuse to take some army pics.

Sure why not, rule of cool says yes.

Family photo, theres another contemptor, 5 more jetpack dudes that ive no idea if build as raptors or warp talons, and 60 ci

And 60 cultists on the workbench, pic of the dudes.

Looks cool!

working on some cobalt sneakies in preparation for Alpharius. Does the Deathwatch arm look good or should I scrap it and just give him a bolter?

another boi

Get your finger out user, if I see this pic and question again I'll superglue that cloak to the mini myself, right after I superglue your japseye shut.

Which is fucking dumb, oceans are covering more than 70% of the planet, how could such quantities of water be removed from earth ?

also paul sawyers/fat bloke's white scars, who were the studio army for white scars back in the day had 3 dreadnoughts in it. this was the original white scars army so if its good enough for him its good enough for me.

Pls help, splitting Betrayl at Calth with my brother. I play Black Templars in 40k and love Siggy and Dorn, so Imperial Fists seem to be an easy choice but I love Sevatar and the Night Lords scheme. Are either of them particularly terrible on the tabletop? I understand the Fists are much more defensive, but if I ran Sigismund I'd imagine I'd be playing a more aggressive army. Also, how terrible are Templar Brethren?

The short story Restorer shows the White Scars receiving an influx of Terran recruits between their arrival and the Siege. I could see them being willing to be interred in Dreadnoughts - maybe even ordered to, since Dorn oversees all the defenders.

Wow, it’s almost like traditions can change in 10,000 years. The White Scars legion in 30k doesn’t put anyone in dreadnoughts. Just because they can take them in the rules doesn’t mean anything. I can ally Leman Russ with Gal Vorbak according to the rules.

But you can't. Leman is loyalist only and GV are traitor only.

Among all HH and 40k books, is there anything you would regard as literary?

No. Its genre-fiction and half of it's average at best.

>and half of it's average at best.
And believe it or not, but thats the better half.

The Chogorians don’t, to be specific

>Just because they can take them in the rules doesn’t mean anything
It generally does, Salamanders can't take moritats for example. In 30k white scars dreadnoughts exist. Whether they were Terrans who were interred before Khan was discovered, or placed in due to desperate measures and being willing to suffer for their comrades doesn't matter, the fact is that they existed.

>I can ally Leman Russ with Gal Vorbak according to the rules.
No, no you cannot.

>Leman is loyalist only
No he isn’t. Read his entry in Inferno again. Magnus and Russ can be taken by both loyalists and traitors.

No, it’s stated that the legion doesn’t put anyone in dreadnoughts. Only Astartes that we’re interred before reuniting with their Primarch is fluff accurate.

FW said during the Weekender that they would address the issue in book 8

>Not just FAQing it
Leman Russ confirmed for closet traitor

Could VIIth legion bros post pics of their armies?

Oh, I meant the White Scars dreadnought thing.

I'm trying to get a Zone Mortalis league together at my LGS. So far I've got 3 others signed up for sure (provided it goes through) and another 2 or 3 "maybes."
Can anyone provide advice on how to run a series of games like this?
If anyone here has run something like this already, I would greatly appreciate guidance.

Including myself, it looks like we'll have 1 Night Lords player (me), 2 Sons of Horus, and 1 Iron Warriors. One of the maybes would play Dark Angels.

The Forgotten Legion 30k (look them up on Facebook) just started one and is posting about it. Ask them.

After the Unification Wars, the Emperor started trying to restore the oceans and make it a little nicer. His gains ended up being reversed, not sure when (likely long after the Heresy).

I second what this guy says.

Sevatar's pretty terrible on the tabletop. Night Lords are fine, just not Sevatar. Sigismund is probably the best Astartes special character in the game and Templar Brethren are not great, but acceptable (the other IF special unit is definitely terrible).
One issue: half a BaC box doesn't get you very far, and IF look better in Mk III (Burning of Prospero, which does have fewer useful models for legion players). Night Lords could easily use the entire BaC box.

Thank you for the tip!

Thanks for the tip! Reading Praetorian of Dorn right now and its reminding me of my love for Papa. I see what you mean by the use of the sets though and will probably buy another for myself down the line. Either way I think I'll end up getting the Sevatar mini because it's cool as hell

not all defenders

No it's mostly bolter porn.

Yeah buying special character minis to use as a normal Praetor is totally fine, and they’ll fix the rules someday.

Prospero Burns made it onto the New York Times best seller list. The other books on there aren’t always high art either… heck, I think it’s easy to argue that the best HH novels beat out the worst of, say, the Ender’s Game or Dune series, and those are sometimes considered “literary”.

Prospero Burns, First Heretic, Path of Heaven, Brotherhood of the Storm, and Tallarn Executioner come to mind as a little bit more than just bolter porn.

Wait.. since when do people consider Prospero Burns one of the 'good' HH novels? The fuck? Between 'wet leopard growl', the ridiculous names, bullshit plot contrivances and it skipping over the entire Prospero section its named for in 10 pages I thought it was universally panned like Outcast Dead.

I don't get the hype for Botherhood of the Storm. It was a neat story, but not that far above and beyond normal BL fare. I also don't think it's compulsory reading before Scars - though it's obviously chronologically first Scars stands on its own perfectly fine, you never feel like you're not sure who these people are.

True, but if I remember rightly they're hideously overcosted (or rather, they're appropriately costed but you *have* to pay for 20 of them when you really want, like, 5)

Only worth it in big squads yes.

Sorry, meant A Thousand Sons

Parting of the Ways in audio form.

Have anyone used Caestus Assault Ram? Is it worth it regarding its point cost? Cost the same as a Spartan (without upgrades) but I'm thinking of using one of the skimmer/flyer RoW with Blood Angels. Would it be worth it to transport terminators?
Also, if a flyer has a transport capacity of 20, Can I use it to ship 2 squads of 10 or only a squad of 10-20? Especially when it is a Dedicated Transport.

Only Super-heavies may transport multiple squads. Dedicated Transport may only transport the unit that had it as "Dedicated".
As for the Caestus, it has a use, but Terminators are better served by drop pods.

That arm looks cool, yeah. I'd say keep it.

>Dedicated Transport may only transport the unit that had it as "Dedicated".

No, they can only start the game transporting the dedicated unit (and any attached IC. After that they can transport any friendly unit (within their capacity and rules, etc.)

If Dreadnoughts use an "atomantic reactor," which I take to mean some form of nuclear power, why do they have smokestacks?

>atomantic reactor

Isn't it just for powering their atomantic shields?

>why do they have smokestacks

Pic related.

The steam release into the atmosphere is not necessary. I actually went to research it because of your pic.
Also there is conflicting information on Niels Bohr's flight to the US. The atomic archive places it in early 1939, while wikipedia, and another source, put it in the 1943.
The Iron Hands Contemptor condensates the vapour and fuels its rage with it.

My bad about the DTs.

Speaking of rams, I love the story about Mortarion ramming a hive city, that was good stuff.

To be fair to you, that's how DTs used to work back in 4th

...

>Brother, we're surrounded by the enemy
Vox blips, the voice is casual
>See those guys fucking the enemy over there? They are the only ones I'm driving today.
The Land Raider drives by, leaving the Squad Octavius to die a honourable death.

Hey guys, trying to make a 1000 point blackshield ZM list here. Would really appreciate feedback, thanks !!!

Zone Mortalis - Combatant (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List)
Blackshields [1000pts] – Wrought by War: Death Seekers, No Allegiance

HQ [230pts]
Blackshield Reaver Lord
- Cataphractii Terminator Armour
- Thunderhammer
- Digital Lasers
- Iron Halo
- Rad Grenades

Elites [350pts]
Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon
- Extra Armour
- Dread CCW with Twin-Linked Bolter x 2

Cataphractii Terminator Squad (5 man)
- Grenade Harness
- Heavy Flamer
- 2 Chainfist, 2 Powerfist, 1 power sword
- 4 combi bolters

Troops [405pts]
Marauder Squad Alpha (11 man)
- Pariah Armour
- 5 shotguns, 3 pariah bolters, 2 pariah flamers

Marauder Squad Alpha (6 man)
- 4 bolters, 1 pariah flamers
- Combi Plasma

How do people model their command squad legion standard bearers? Especially the terminator ones. Do I just slap a flag on their back or what?

Since the Forgeworld Valdor sucks, and the Trajann Valoris Model GW put out is pretty cool, I'm trying to make my own midground fancy Valdor. (Still WIP got some filing and shit to do) What do you think?

Sorry, the fucking image flipped, but you get the point.

Everything that McNeill did, especially Outcast Dead and Angel Exterminatus.

How do I paint my vets so they actually look like veterans? I play word bearers

If you're going to use him as Valdor I recommend changing the axe to a spear, since that's what he uses in the artwork.

I'd use another head, but that's just me.

Paint their helmets black to make them stand out.

Possessed bits?

Put more trophies (skulls, helmets from loyalist legions, etc.) on them. Generally make it look like they've personalised their armour a bit more than the line troops.

His art looks more like the migh and right haircut, at leat the BW drawing in the Forgeworld book, But I agree on the spear, gonny try to work this out.

>I can ally Leman Russ with Gal Vorbak according to the rules.
You can't you dumb motherfucker

>esoteric symbols and sigils
>it's a fucking skull

no not just a skull, a demon skull

Speaking of demon skulls, was the horned skull used by librarians in 30k? Tylos Rubio has one across his chest.

Yeah that's some cool shit.

That's definitely one thing the 30k era adds - marines get to use a whole lot more cool equipment and there's scope for a lot more badass ships

Seems so. Yesugei has one too (in BL material)… and we really haven’t seen much else so far. The FW books are still in early Heresy. They’ll probably get some coverage in Malevolence.

I need to find one to convert up a Stormseer on bike but have no idea where to look.

I have a tactics question, is four myrmidon secutors with graviton guns in a triaros a good idea for an anti-tank unit? Eight haywire blasts at BS 5 should kill anything short of a super heavy very reliably. I have plenty of other means of dealing with medium vehicles and anything that isn't AV 14 all around, but I am wondering if this is simply retarded levels of overkill.

The SM librarian kit has some bits to use, like shoulder pads and such.

I'm planning a terminator librarian with maybe pic related bits.

That's a lot of points that can't do much else tho if you don't have enough tanks. Also losing one model severely takes away your reliable damage output.

More Krios venators is something I'd consider, or only running one grav and another gun on the Secutors so they can do other stuff

I played my first game first game of 8th edition last night, and Holy Mother of Sigmar, am I glad HH is sticking with 7.1e.
Thank you, FW. You may be terrible at proofreading, but you really had my back on this one.

What's it like?

Prospero Burns - when I read it I could see that it could easily have been written by Philip K. or Pynchon (only bigger and literarier)

Writing up an army list is a pain in the ass. The unit entry is on one page, the options for weapons (for sergeants and characters) is on a second page, and the points costs for all of that is on a third page. Everyone at my LGS uses an app called Battlescribe to make their lists just so they don't have to deal with it. It's a huge pain in the ass.
They apparently removed rolling for reserves, all templates, and scatter dice (including for deepstriking).
They brought back the "I place a unit then you place a unit" deployment thing from earlier editions. I can see why some people like it, but to me it slows the game down too much. That one really depends on your opinion.
I despise what they did to vehicles. They're basically monstrous creatures now. No armour, no facings, can fire all of their weapons if any part of the model has line of sight. They did bring in that thing from AoS where monsters' stats get reduced after they lose wounds, but it's a pain to have to keep track of 12+ wounds for vehicles (since hull points are gone). Apparently there are vehicles with 20 or 30 wounds.
It also seems like cover saves get added to your regular save, and when combined with AP now lowering saves, you have to add and then subtract or vice versa to figure out what a model's save even is. It's really annoying.
Everything apparently has split fire and can charge whatever it wants. So you can have a squad of 30 gaunts shoot at 30 different units and then charge a 31st unit.
I think the thing I hate the most is the command points system. It's sort of like the old Faith Points thing the SoBs used to get, but more far-reaching and convoluted. The game also seems to be obsessed with cards and random mission objectives that change during the game.

They removed all the tactics for things like positioning and making calculated risks in your reserves and replaced it with hording Command Points and then using special abilities. It just doesn't play like 40k at all.

Abnett or Bowden said that the editors pick the titles and cover, not them; so it wasn't his fault that the title was misleading.

Prospero Burns is an excellent slow burner, with the paranoia and mistrust really delivering that 40k atmosphere, along with that dream-like quality of the writing. It is without a doubt one of the best HH novels, easily on the same level with ATS, and certainly better than First Heretic which gets its dick incessantly sucked

Explain why you can’t according to the rules.

Gal Vorbak can only be used in a Traitor army. Russ can only be used in a Loyalist army.

In fairness, lazy fuckers have been using Battlescribe to make lists for years. That's hardly something you can put on 8th's shoulders.