The wizard flying, *teleporting behind u* and throwing around beams of energy is perfectly fine

>The wizard flying, *teleporting behind u* and throwing around beams of energy is perfectly fine
>But as soon as the monk wants to do something more elaborate than a spin kick people start screeching about Dragonball bullshit

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Have you tried not playing D&D?

>look mom, i posted it again!

>>But as soon as the monk wants to do something more elaborate than a spin kick people start screeching about Dragonball bullshit
It isn't realistic for a hand-to-hand specialist to blast energy beams out of his hands.
Also - show me hand-to-hand specialists from myths that can do this without being demigods.

Why are monks even a thing? This doesn't scream as medieval Europe. Firearms users have more right to be there than freaking chinese monks.

You're playing a magical wizard, fuck realism, let other players at the game with different classes have equivalently fun things to do you cunt.

You say that, but Bhuddist Greece was almost a thing.

Wizard is governed by magic, so when he bends reality - it doesn't break verisimilitude.
When a fistfighter breaks reality - it is unrealistic.

Luckily, in a fantasy setting hard work and talent can lead to a level of skill that would be superhuman and supernatural in the real world without reality having to be bent or verisimilitude to be broken.

This horse has been beaten to death, but this mindset is what ruined D&D.
Wizards can do whatever the fuck they want because LOL MAGIC DONT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT, martials have to adhere to a narrow and arbitrary definition of what's "realistic".

Quite the opposite in fact. When I made a Monk the DM specifically asked me if I was going Avatar or Hidden Dragon for them or did I plan something different like a boxer or krav maga.
By level fifteen I was having fun running across the top of a bamboo forest, knocking arrows out of the air bare handed.

Just because you have a shit DM and you two can't communicate, don't blame your woes on everyone else.

Find me a wizard in myth who isn't a demigod or specifically using skills that weren't first taught by a god.

>Wizards can do whatever the fuck they want because LOL MAGIC DONT GOTTA EXPLAIN SHIT

It's actually even worse than that, the original fluff for wizards wanted them to be halfway proto-scientist charlatans, so like half their magic even breaks the "verisimilitude" of their own magical class.

Merlin.

Merlin is a Cambion

Does Prospero from the Tempest count?

Merlin is a half-demon (Sometimes the literal son of Satan himself) who lives life backwards. He was born old, will die an infant, and tomorrow was yesterday for him.

Morgan le Fay?

Well you can have third-descendents of demigods like Medea. If you go back far enough, it's not rare to find out that you are a remote descendant of an ancient king.

Monks, especially the Buddhists ones are specialized into energy fields and life force.
I'm pretty sure that being the same level, a monk would definitively resist every assault a wizard would have on him.

What do real monks think of their portrait in fantasy?

>le Fay

It's in the name lol. pre-rectified mythology she's flat out a fairy, versions that want to make it all about family drama downgrade that to "feytouched" so she can be Artie's half-sister but it's the same shit.

Give the option of PC to be fay-touched. Done.

>Shakespear
Not really mythology.
Also, wasn't Prospero's magic books written by the Witch who was in league with devils?
It's been a long time since I read it.

Technically she can be both, because Changelings (no not the freaky grey aliens from Eberron) are a thing.

Surely by this point you'll already be tired of this thread right? Years and years of the same goddamn arguments.

They can, play 4e or exalted you autistic.

You are thinking of anime, not fantasy.

No, streamlining and casual faggot who think role playing is wish fulfillment that has no rules are what ruined Dnd. Life, like everything else in all existence, is a set of limitations.

This argument is redundant. I know why you are making it but it doesn't stand to reason because spellcasters and warriors are different In nature. Spellcasters, by their very definition, are superhuman. Fighters are not. Thus doesn't just adhere to classic fantasy but it is the most basic preposition and assumption anyone would make when first hearing their titles.

Again I don't understand these threads. Go play 4e or exalted. Stop being an sjw tier faggot and insisting everything changes to suit your fancy when there are already systems that cater to you. Also, if you don't like other dms rules, do it yourself faggot.

Excluding caster supremacists from the group is a sufficient reason to want balanced martials even if you dislike all the actual implementations of balanced martials.

As another point, I can dm you a setting g where your fighters can be akin to mythical legends but the spellcasters will be buffed to that point as well. So no saving throws and no duration for spells, the only thing that ends them is the spellcasters breaking the spell of their own volition.

Because that is how magic works everywhere else.

>Because that is how magic works on non-player characters everywhere else

TLDR: REEEEEEEEE only my favorite classes should get to do things and break the game over their knee, how dare you want to not be a dead weight? If everyone is useful and fun to play noone really is!

>there were no monks in medieval europe
Are you retarded

>An ethnicity is the same as a class
Welp, if anyone ITT needed proof that 3.PF caused brain damage, this was it.

Now look at other Greek heroes.
already said it best.

>Spellcasters, by their very definition, are superhuman. Fighters are not.

Yeah, because people in real life can consistently juggle mountains, can swing a sword at a practice dummy for weeks without even slowing down, and consistently survive falls from orbit with barely a scratch.

Fighters are still superhuman in 3.5. They were just shit.

>show me x that's not a demigod
another new flustered wizard meme

To be fair, the medieval european monks are quite different from DnD monks, and even compared to Asian monks, DnD monks are still somewhat over-the-top. Unless were talking Wuxia/Xianxia, in which case DnD monks are actually too tame.

>Spellcasters, by their very definition, are superhuman. Fighters are not.
Martials can survive multiple stab wounds to the chest without even getting winded while most people (who don't die from the initial stab wounds) would be benched for weeks as their body heals their injuries.

Just because it's not "Imma shoot a fireball" superhuman ability doesn't mean that they aren't superhuman.

In some settings it is... At least as far as wizards go. In the Dungeons and Dragons movie only certain bloodlines had magical power and therefore any way to use magic at all. Which, considering that is an evolved trait, in a sense, they are a different race. Much like the erudites from Norrath.

If you'd like a better real life example, fighter pilots or astronauts. Not everyone can handle the g force so not everyone can be one. Plenty of other examples for real life bullshit, main point is that not everyone in the world can or would even want to be the same thing which is why fighter's/monks/rogues exist in a setting with magic.

Also, older editions (pre 3.PF) had races as classes, so your little quip is invalid to begin with.

The thing is, that doesn't really matter so much because it's not like you're randomly rolling to see what class you are. Only .001% of the population manifesting enough magic to become a Wizard doesn't matter so much when everyone can still just decide to roll a Wizard anyways.

And then when you burn through spell slots to kill the rival wizard you all get ganked by the evil wizard's martial friends

I just said I'd dm you a campaign where you get your wish fulfillment but everyone else would as well.

So you can cut mountains with a single sword swing, but polymorph has no saving throw and lasts forever. Also a lightning bolt homes in on you and is an instant kill.

At the same time though, "Fighter Pilot" is not an ethnicity, it's a career, same as classes.
Nice try spergo, but there's a difference between race and ethnicity. It's why humans have over a dozen different ethnic groups that they could hail from while still getting the same innate bonuses for being a human.

If only you fags had another brain cell to rub together, then you'd realize how stupid you were before making such fools of yourselves.

So the abstraction of hit points, something wizards share is of equal power to game-breaking spells now?

*Dimension Door*
*Scry*
Now the rival wizard can fuck them up at their leisure and they have no wizard to help them survive the encounter.
>inb4 HOW DARE YOU USE UBIQUITOUS SPELLS THAT ARE USEFUL FOR MULTIPLE SITUATIONS, I WON'T STAND FOR THIS!
I'm sorry your kit only allows you to hit things and die but you're the one who chose to be inadequate because you couldn't handle juggling two options at once.

Ah yes, actually being able to do stuff except full attack and being one-upped by the cleric in every single situation, truly the most unhealty and absurd of escapist power fantasies. How dare those uppity martials try to usurp YOUR nerd wish fulfillment?

In the sense that Fighters can attain enough of them to survive falling at terminal velocity and they aren't even slowed down by being bloodied, let alone taking a fucking stab wound to the chest, then yes.

The only difference is that martials aren't allowed to be useful by design because people secretly play them so they can complain about how "shitty" the game is, rather than because they genuinely like the concept.

If they wanted to be useful, they'd pick a mage (or at least a martial who has access to spells like Paladins or Rangers).

At this point, I attribute it to mental illness than any actual flaws in the game, because this is an "issue" that has been going on for over a decade yet people not only continue to play martials but actively sabotage any attempt that the devs made to put them on equal footing as their caster counterparts.

>martials aren't allowed to be useful by design because people secretly play them so they can complain

Or maybe it's just because WoTC sucks at balance and bought into that Monte Cook ivory tower bullshit.

>Or maybe it's just because WoTC sucks at balance and bought into that Monte Cook ivory tower bullshit.
WotC tried to fix martials on multiple occasions, each time the martialcucks complained until WotC made them worthless again.

They choose to be worthless because if they were useful, they'd have nothing to complain about.

If I'm capable of taking out an enemy Wizard, his noncaster friends are literally no problem.

Even if I'm just teleporting onto the other side of the planet, then scry and dying them the next day.

At that point though, why even pretend the Fighter is an option by putting it in the same class list as the Wizard or Cleric? Why not just make it an NPC only class or just drop it from the game?

>it's the fighterfags' fault fighters are shitty because they want them to be!
>poor people want to be poor so they can complain about it!
Holy shit this level of retardation

>At that point though, why even pretend the Fighter is an option by putting it in the same class list as the Wizard or Cleric?
Because then people would complain about not having the option to choose Fighters, even though Fighters have been sucking ass for over a decade and generally cause nothing but complaints from everyone who plays them.

There's nothing medieval about monks going around making kung fu moves. I always find funny hearing all those people playing D&D complaining "but...muh medieval fantasy feeling" when you have Wuxia dudes around punching people.

>the martialcucks complained
Grogs of all stripes shitposted 4e into oblivion because it dared to not be 3.75, and rallied against the Book of Nine Swords because of the same problem in the OP (animu shit reee).
If salt deposits like are of any indication there must've been so many casterfags false-flagging because they wanted to keep running the show.

Where is it said they're even "asian" or using "asian" techniques?

I want you to read this .pdf, it's a document containing an idea for how martials were going to work in 5e.

Now I know, as a martialcuck, you obviously dumped INT, but I'm sure even a sub-70 IQ troglodyte such as yourself can see the differences between what we got during the playtests and what we got at the game's release.

Oh wait, you dumped WIS too, so let me spell it out for you. Martials got superiority dice that refreshed between rounds, as opposed to short rests. So you could spend your dice to buff yourself or use them on a maneuver and still get them back to use during your next round.

Of course, because it allowed Martials to have options, the martialcucks complained and bitched and moaned about how it wasn't "muh martials" anymore, and WotC decided to nerf them to shit while shoving the remains into the BattleMaster sub-class.

Between this, 4e, and Book of 9 swords, only a fool would believe that martials didn't fuck themselves over.

>Classes
Found your problem.

Go on. Show me medieval European Kung Fu techniques.

OP mentioned a "spin kick", which is pretty classic asian martial arts

Yeah well, I DID ask you if you maybe didn’t want to play a pointlessly restrictive Class-based system and then struggle with the basic rules yet again, but you STILL said that’s what you wanted to do.

Play something better or shut the fuck up

Why the fuck would casterfags give a fuck about what martials do? They're already at the top of the food chain and even at the height of their power, 3.PF martials could only ever be T3 at best.

>I'm going to come into a thread I know is going to make me upset and now I'm upset.
>How could this have happened?

I don't remember mages from legend firing fireballs. Most of their powers seem to be a lot more subtle.

D&D is not a fantasy setting simulator or fantasy setting player. Whoever told you that lied, weather it was your friend, Wizards of the Coast, or even just you lying to yourself.
D&D is only good at doing D&D, which after nearly 45 years of existence is basically it’s own thing weather you like it or not. It’s too restrictive on multiple levels to really make anything other then fantasy settings that do anything other then what D&D does.

Basically, play D&D because you want to play D&D specifically. Don’t play D&D because you want some crazy super-unique fantasy stuff.

I for one am glad 3.PF is a containment edition

Do you seriously believe this? that all fighters chose to be unhappy? is that the best answer you can imagine? It's not lieing wizards or something else? No? it HAS to be compulsively miserable fighters?

That doesn't stop people from bitching about, guns, trinkets and toys in fantasy settings. Their only flawed argument is: "They are not Medieval Fantasy".

Because they want to be lonely at the top.
Martials being buffed until they're equal to casters mean that casterfags can no longer bask i ntheir superiority as the only members of the party that matter. Look at any other caster supremacy thread, look at that elementary school "You want a setting were martials are strong? Then casters get to be super-duper double strong!" bullshit up there in this thread.

>Do you seriously believe this?
Yes, they actively choose to be shitty by default of choosing the weakest class in the game and complaining about how much they suck ass.
>It's not lieing wizards or something else?
Typical, blaming casters for all your problems when the solution has been staring you in the face this whole time.

If you don't want to play a martial who sucks, you can play literally any other tabletop game in existence, from GURPS to Shadowrun to Mutants&Masterminds to Burning Wheel to Apocalypse World to anything else you can think of.

If you don't want to suck ass playing a martial in D&D, choose one of the martial classes that didn't dump mental and decided to take on spells that at least allow them to perform adequately within their niche.

If you want to play D&D AND be a martial who isn't relegated to "gimp" or "whipping boy" for the entirety of the campaign post-Level 6, then play 4e.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up about casters keeping you down.

I'm here only for this idiot, really.

>Martials being buffed until they're equal to casters mean that casterfags can no longer bask i ntheir superiority as the only members of the party that matter.
Again, even at the height of their power, they were still limited to T3 at best, and that's because there's only so much you can do when your kit has be being a martial whose main schtick is big damage to a single target.

Hell, Paladins and Rangers have had spells for years, but nobody gave a shit.

They’re talking about D&D, always. It’s a sure way to get responses, and an easy thing to whine about. They bring up casters and martials (which are D&D specific terms) and frequently namedrop actual D&D classes. Again; D&D is not good at doing anything that isn’t specifically D&D. Don’t play Monopoly when you want to play Checkers. Don’t play poker when you want to play Connect Four. Don’t play D&D when you want to play a fantasy setting with more flexibility then D&D gives you.
I don’t care if you believed who told you it was good at that stuff because they good liars or because you were stupid enough to believe WotC’s bullshit marketing line or even if because you’re just too fucking lazy to bother learning something new.

When you willingly play a game that is openly and deliberately shit and doing anything other then the game already does, you do not get to fucking whine about it.

Because casterfags are what happens when you get the bullied nerds from high school trying to run the show. They wind up creating a system built to prop up the deflated, crumbling remnants of their ego.

youtube.com/watch?v=W0fV1oB3j4c Have some Judo

why didn't anyone point out that monks do in fact have literal, actual magic just like the wizard

No.
Only I, THE WIZARD, deserve this enigmatic mystery called "FUN."

What if my group just doesn’t want to play anything but D&D?

Yes friend, casters are the ones with massive egos, not the martials who want to strong, charismatic, and intelligent at no cost with a cadre of followers because nobody took them to prom IRL.

It says something when their endgame includes chucking mountains at people without having to spend a resource to do it.

I mean it may not be "Kung Fu" but they sure as hell had martial arts. Sadly I cannot find my copy of hand to hand stuff so I guess I can just point you towards ringen stuff from HEMA.

Then son.
It's time to put out the fishing line for another group.

Sack the fuck up and tell them that you’re getting tired of playing D&D and would like to try something else. If they refuse then them while they play their game, hang out with them, but refuse to play and instead just sit there drinking beer or whatever.

Because Ki isn't supernatural fucktard!

Find another group or nut up and make your own group.

Hell, it's easier than ever to find rando's IRL who'd be willing to give anything a try.

Play E6. Level 6 is a great cutting off point. 3rd level spells are still really useful and awesome, but don't create campaign breaking problems yet. Martials can still really shine because their bigger numbers aren't made irrelevant by alternate solutions yet. Seems like a win/win to me.

it is in D&D

I'm not the one demanding the system be, and stay, deliberately broken in my favor.
I'm the one arguing for a teensy-weensy little thing called B-A-L-A-N-C-E.

Can you hear that casterfag? Hear that nasty little B-word?