What might cause a Lawful Good and Chaotic Good hero to get into a serious fight with each other?

Chaotic GOOD, not Chaotic neutral/evil.

>oh no, those mothers are murdering their children
>the government won't do anything to stop them
>I guess I'll have to take action, even if it means breaking the law
Sounds like chaotic good to me

Lawful Good is morally absolute Neutral Evil. So the chaotic good character just has to disagree with one of the Lawful Good absolutes.

CG was looking at LG's girl

CG wants to overthrow a LN King that LG has sworn to.

"Hey, you can't cross the street there, there's no crosswalk."

There were no survivors.

Over the law.

Tales of Vesperia

Yuri Lowell vs Flynn

Literally the plot of Avengers: Civil War.

The Lawful one is loyal to a flawed system because they believe in what it represents and the Chaotic one is working against that system for what they consider a noble goal.

vagina's.
all fights are essentially about vagina's.

...

The Barbarian(female) has become smitten with the Paladin(also female)
Traditional Mating fight to ensue.

A chaotic GOOD person wouldn't bomb a clinic, however, or otherwise do something that would result in collateral damage.

Murderers, accessory-to-murderers, and conspiracy-to-murderers are not collateral damage user.

Technically they're both Lawful Good. Cap stood against the accords because they went against his principles of freedom to act in the name of Justice and stripped him of his rights as an individual. Iron Man was for them because of his focus on being held responsible for his actions and the consequences that arose because of them. Both ultimately stood by their principles to the very end.

A neutral evil woman.

>Captain “people don’t have to face justice if they’re my friend” America
>standing by his principles

They would fight over laws vs chaos. For example.

LG and CG want to save the princess from marrying a corrupt official. LG would look for a way to bring light to the official's corrupt actions. CG would simply jump in to save the princess and return her to a place where the official won't find her.

Both have their ups and downs. LG's plan could take years at which point the official could have done something terrible. On the other hand, they don't have to worry about backlash or starting an incident.
CG's plan is faster, but could cause a massive incident in the long run and label them as a criminal.

If abortion is murder, do you commit genocide everytime you wank off?

Is that why paladins are so grumpy?

No that's a sin for different reasons.

Because the stuff Bucky did while he was brainwashed by Hydra is totally his fault.

This.

>ITT Zidane vs Steiner

More like not a sin at all according to the paladin code.

You do know that those clinics don't just do abortions, they also help women make sure that if they want a child they will be able to have one without miscarrying and possibly killing the mother as well.
Also shutting down clinics often increase the number of abortions done, they are just done with coat hangers and plungers.
Do you feel the same way about NRA meetings? Anti-vaxxers? Climate denialists?
Oh, and why do I have a feeling you are the kind of individual who suddenly stops giving a shit once the child is outside of the mother, especially if they are black?

That dude is fucking dead

Is it murder if a sperm dies?

No, sperm does not grow into a fully functioning human if left to its own devices as opposed to a zygote. The active expulsion of sperm and it "dying" is as much of a loss as a blood cell "dying", a zygote on the other hand has already began to make the majority of the physical characteristics of the human it should become if not intruded upon by outside forces or a natural miscarriage.

Ignoring the edge-meisters, it's entirely possible to bomb clinics at night time when no one is there and it would accomplish the same basic thing. It would result in collateral damage, but Chaotic good folks probably won't give a shit as long as the collateral damage isn't people.

I'm kinda annoyed you guys fell for the abortion bait but also it's probably the least autistic direction the thread could've gone so I guess it evens out.

Chaotic Good killed a pedo in cold blood in front of the Lawful

>Do you feel the same way about NRA meetings?
How is this relevant? Guns can be used outside of killing people, abortions cannot.

>Anti-vaxxers? Climate denialists?
How big is your wall, because thats a rather large projector you're using to see shit with.

>Oh, and why do I have a feeling you are the kind of individual who suddenly stops giving a shit once the child is outside of the mother, especially if they are black?
Probably because you're some partisan hack would be my guess, but it's always great to hear people say that a lack of responsibility is an acceptable reason to murder innocents.

Chaotic good character is a reformed criminal against whom the lawful good character swore an oath of vengeance against.

The LG wants humanity to be loyal to him and for him to rule, CG is having none of it. Kinda like the Dante v. Vergil boss fight in DmC.

Oh I'm fucking fuming m8g

Are you a retard? 90 percent of zygotes never become a human being. Should we investigate every woman who has a miscarriage to make sure she didn't abort it?

The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller has a pretty iconic example. Superman tries to take in Batman for running things like a crazy vigilante, and Batman wants to continue to dispense his brand of justice. I appreciate that it may be controversial to call Batman CG, but the principle is there.

Ackshully in my country they want to do exactly that.

You know that zygote also won't turn into a human if you leave it to its own devices, you need a woman for it?

A disagreement over how to close the bread pack.

>90 percent of zygotes never become a human being.
Are you capable of reading a full post or are you set into sperging out the second you read half a sentence? "...if not intruded upon by outside forces or a natural miscarriage." Read the last half very closely then read it once again.

>Should we investigate every woman who has a miscarriage to make sure she didn't abort it?
No because the ones that dont take due to whatever reason are simply expelled by the mothers body naturally. It's the former of the two thats the problem here, you dunce, and a natural miscarriage is not something that is caused by an abortion which was the cause of this chain. Go to sleep user you're too easily flustered and react without thinking or fully knowing what you're responding too, you'll feel alot better and less embarassed in the morning.

Transubstantiation vs consubstantiation
There has been literal wars fought over this skub.

Guns have one purpose, murder, and are very easy to use on innocents, in fact the ratio of innocent to not-innocent is disturbingly high, even when you don't include innocent animals murdered for sport,vanity, greed, or gluttony.
The NRA want anybody to be able to own tools of murder, even if they are mentally unsound, or a danger to themselves and others, or any other reason that a sane government would want limit their access to guns.
If you wish to paint family planning centres as hives of murder then it is only fair to say that the NRA wish to make it as easy as possible to commit murder.
So I ask you, do you truly care about the murder of innocents and see the NRA as also irredeemable, or are you a filthy hypocrite?

>you need a woman for it?
The conversation that started this was on abortion so the existence of the zygote within a woman should be assumed, no need to be difficult. Though didnt they recently make a goat or a sheep outside a mothers womb a year or two ago?

>Ackshully in my country they want to do exactly that.
Doing Lord's work here, boys.

Try telling that the Poles, who will arrest you for murder if you miscarry.

>Guns can be used outside of killing people
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious?
Let me laugh even harder.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>Guns have one purpose, murder, and are very easy to use on innocents,
I take them to the range to relieve stress and hang out with friends with. No one killed in the process. Also to hunt and control the local deer population while bringing in nice venison that you cant get in the store. Though something dies in that example theres no wild animal that is going to die from old age in the woods and it helps keep them and the diseases they carry away from my pets. No people have been killed in these instances, though abortion kills 100% of the time it is used.
>The NRA want
>the NRA wish
>the NRA as also
I'm not American, so I dont care what the NRA wants. The NRA may want for individuals to have guns, but its the individual that makes the decision to kill with a gun, not the gun's itself, and if the gun is used in a murder then punish the one who used it if it was used in cold blood. Same for abortion. I dont condemn all people who do it. Sometimes there are simply life threatening instances that make it a necessary action that has to be done and I fault no one who has to make that decision, but as we both know "the ratio of innocent to not-innocent is disturbingly high".

You can go on about organizations all you want but its individuals and the actions they take that matter, but as far as guns are concerned sure in a utopia where they would not be needed I'd be fine with banning them all but we dont live in that world. If a criminal can get a gun and potentially harm me or my family then I will make sure that I am ready to be as armed if not better.

>hunting
>shooting range
>collection
I have 4 and I've yet to kill anyone. Guess I've been gunning wrong up to this point.

"Poles, stop being dumb." There, told the Poles. Now how about you tell that to those who decide to abort a child because of irresponsible behavior and/or selfishness?

Stick to dice rolls determining your success in conversations user, because whatever main system you play whos stat governs charisma is naturally abysmal. Hopefully youre not this insufferable for your group as well.

I see, am I correct in assuming your remarks about burning down family planning centres with people in them was hyperbolic?
If so I am more than willing to offer an olive branch; can we both agree: to disagree on the exact ethics of abortion, neither of us are experts and this is a matter and painting it as always fine or always wrong is reductionist and does nobody any good; outside of ridiculous finagling burning down a Family Planing Clinic that does terminations with people inside is an Evil act; that guns have uses beyond murder; that I don't have enough evidence to call you a hypocrite and as such have no right to paint you as such.
Also I apologise for assuming you where American.

The law?

ITT: people who can't grasp the different between 'lawful' and 'law abiding' and why the alignment should have been called 'orderly' instead.

Sperm doesn't match the medical definition of life.

Fetuses in the last trimester match the medical and legal definition of life, but for some reason, it is legal for the mother to decide to murder them for convenience.

Pointing any of this out will get you turned into a pariah because modern society is beyond saving.

You know what else matches medical definition of life? Bacteria. And mosquitos. And you kill them for convenience.

Almost anything, really.

>Chaotic Good hero does something lolrandom that is going to Ruin All Our Plans™
>Lawful Good hero flatly refuses to do something because Somebody I Blindly Respect Told Me To™

>last trimester
Well, it's a good thing that abortions are first trimester. Mid-second latest.

So shut the fuck up with your fucking agenda and stop lying.

a while ago I had a campaign that had the entire party divided upon whether they should hang a bandit that surrendered and the arguments were nearly solely based around law vs chaos
So we had the Paladin arguing to hang the bandit while the Bard was "he surrendered its wrong to kill him"

Succubus

>Though didnt they recently make a goat or a sheep outside a mothers womb a year or two ago?
Idk, I don't read the Al Saud Journal of Medicine

...

A human being is having their body intentionally destroyed (killed) in each abortion. There is no justification for this. Even in rape/incest scenarios the child is innocent.

Abortionists often (incorrectly) cite medical emergencies that put the mothers' life in danger as a legitimite need for abortion. The commonly used scenarios are preeclampsia (catastrophically high blood pressure) and tubal/ectopic pregnancies (baby implants in the fallopian tube and will inevitably rupture leading to massive hemorrhage). Neither of these are treated with an abortion. The former is resolved with premature induction of labor and the latter with either a full or partial saplingectomy (removal of the compromised portion of the fallopian tube). Even though the loss of the child is a forseeable (and sometimes unavoidable) outcome of these therapies, the lives of both mother and baby are being respected because they 1)offer life-saving treatment for the mother by treating the underlying pathology in her body(extremely high BP/Imminent hemorrhage) and 2)do not at any point directly attack the child's body. There are ZERO (0) medical indications for an abortion.
An analogous scenario would be treating a pregnant cancer patient with radiation: while the therapy will in all likelyhood kill the baby, it is being used to save the mother's life and has the predictable, but unavoidable and unintended, effect of miscarriage.

>A human being is having their body intentionally destroyed (killed) in each abortion.
They aren't a human being yet. They aren't even aware of their surroundings yet. And even if they did, better to have them die now then have them endure a life full of suffering by being raised by irresponsible and shitty people and inflict suffering on others when they come of age and most likely repeat the cycle.

>Even in rape/incest scenarios the child is innocent.
The child also does not in any meaningful way exist at the point in pregnancy when abortions are made. If a woman is raped, she absolutely should be allowed to get an abortion, and you're legitimately and seriously fucked up in the head if you honestly think otherwise.

>2)do not at any point directly attack the child's body. There are ZERO (0) medical indications for an abortion.
In a practical or moral sense, there is no difference whatsoever between "directly attacking the child's body" and undertaking treatment that's expected to lead to the death of the fetus.

Guys, we're getting off topic. The issue of a CG character bombing an abortion clinic isn't whether abortion is murder (morally speaking) but whether the CG person views it as murder. Since there are many people around the world who hold the view that abortion is murder, it's reasonable to assume that a CG character might as well.

Now, in their eyes bombing an abortion clinic would result in the deaths of both the doctor who performs the murder, the mother who pays for the murder, and the nurses and other staff who facilitate the murder. It would also result in the death of the baby as well, but given how it would almost certainly die anyways, and how bombing the abortion clinic likely prevents future abortions, the CG could very well see it as morally justified to bomb it.

That's grounds for a shift to CE.

LG or CG i think we can all agree this thread went to shit almost immediately.

A chaotic neutral party member

"You betray the law!"

>They aren't a human being yet.
False. They are alive and human. The entiery of their body exisits in realspace. An individuals'd life begins at conception. That is the starting point. We can observe and verify this. Any other period chosen after this would be arbitrary.
Just because one's life is difficult, that doesn't make it not worth living you coward.

>does not in any meaningful way exist
I'd love to hear what nonsense you come up with to rationalize this viewpoint that can be applied ad nauseum to justify all manner of attrocious behavior.

>a life full of suffering by being raised by irresponsible and shitty people and inflict suffering on others when they come of age and most likely repeat the cycle.
Two wrongs does not make a right

>moral sense
>there is no difference
Wrong. See Double Effect

>Just because one's life is difficult, that doesn't make it not worth living you coward.
It literally can, depending on just how difficult it is. Unless your telling me some of the barely human scum who speak in unintelligible gibberish and fire upon innocents that inhabit inner cities wouldn't be better off dead? That they're living/have lived lives worth protecting and giving a shit about?
Also this. A child does not exist in any meaningful or functional way until it is out of the womb.

There is no consciousness, no feelings, nothing that matters at that point. There literally is no person. There's no one to murder, no one to wrong. There's just an unfeeling lump of organic matter, and the fact that the lump of matter can in time become a person changes nothing.

>people not being able to tell this is pasta

Shit nigga I aint even seen it before but I had common sense to google this.

>It literally can, depending on just how difficult it is.
You are assumming the role of a unerring fortune teller as a stance for your argument. Since you aren't 100% correct 100% of the time in your assumption that all children born in these circumstances will ALWAYS live terrible lives, we must give them the benefit of the doubt and not murder them.

>it's okay to murder babies becasue you wash your hands and swat mosquitos

You can say the same about newborn infant.

Ooops, meant for

The CG hero is arming terrorist cells to bring down the evil empire, but occasionally innocent people get bombed and gassed in their attacks and many of the soldiers and police they kill are just drafted people doing their jobs.

The fuck you smoking?
He agrees with you.

The reaponses shouldn't be a surprise. Evildoers can't help but attack that which is true, beautiful, and good.

The Chaotic Good hero wants to do something even though it's illegal, but the Lawful Good hero, having autism as most Lawfuls do, cannot comprehend that Good trumps Law in the mind of a sane, free man.

No, I can't, because it wouldn't be true for a newborn infant, or even an unborn infant during the latter parts of pregnancy.

A newborn cant talk, has no personality or memory, and whatever feelings you attribute to it can also be given to children we allow to already be aborted in earlier trimesters.
You are basing your criteria for humans deserving of personhood on arbitrary values that collapse under the lightest criticism. How much feeling/consciousness is enough to where you can't kill someone anymore? How can you measure it? What if you kill them just 2 hours prior to that threshold, two minute, two seconds? What is it about these that makes them more deserving to live than someone else?

There is a very simple way to determine. If the fetus in question is able to survive outside a woman's body it doesn't get aborted. At the very worst it might get induced birth and being put under a life support. Also, a newborn is already aware of its surroundings, unlike a 12 weeks fetus.

Newborns can't survive outside the womb. They will die in roughly 1-5 days post birth, depending on how well nourished it was inside the womb.