So if the warp is shaped by believe...

*belief

Emperor's parents managed to fuck him into existence, don't see why lazy imperial citizens can't.

Then where is he in the warp? How come deamons weren't formed from the Imperium's belief? Even the Legion of the Damned are a can of worms on what they are.

>How come deamons weren't formed from the Imperium's belief?
But they were

Actually a bunch of shamans fused together to make him.

It's canon that humans will evolve into a more powerful psychic race then the Eldar, which is why Empy had his whole plan to 'guide' humanity after conquering it.

He fell out of some woman's womb. Have you ever read anything outside of 1d4chan

Actually that's what happened in TTS.

I always thought that the Emperor's powers were partly derived and amplified from the faith of the Imperium, to note the emperors Holy Saints as being sort of comparable to Chaos Worshipers infused with the powers of Chaos.

Hasn't this always been the case?

His soul is still within his body, while the Astronomicon is his 'reflection' in the warp and he cant really do anything with that since he's focused on keeping the beacon it provides active so Imperial ships can navigate safely.

As for the deamons thing, there isnt really a place for them since the Space Marines and to a lesser extent the Sisters of Battle are already mythologised into his 'Angels of Death', so any psychic energy is probably directed to the veneration for them instead of creating a whole new being to fight for the Emperor and Imperium. But there is 'over-spill' like the Legion of the Damned and the Living Saints.

Well surely these shamans had parents! Focus on the basics.

In MoM he kills his uncle because the uncle killed his father. Now, if you're all about a kid having two daddies, that's great, but not in barely Bronze Age Turkey.

So Space Marines work on ork-tier reasoning that belief fuels them?

Humans dont have the level of latent psychic power to make that work to the extent it does for the Orks, but the really insane shit the SM can do in the lore is probably helped to some degree by trillions of people seeing them as the galaxy's biggest bad-asses.

>belief in a group of avenging warriors, fearsome in their aspect, that arrive unlooked for at the final hour to destroy the Emperor's foes

Sounds like the Legion of the Damned to me.

To put it bluntly, from most recent lore its been hinted that the Emperor is on his way to becoming a God, by this point its only a matter of when it will happen.

How the fuck do you think things like Imperial Rosarius's work? Faith in the Emperor's protection is LITERALLY deflecting claws and bullets.

Dude, rosarii are Conversion Field Generators-- personal forcefields. I'm on the belief-shapes-reality side, but don't exaggerate.

>How the fuck do you think things like Imperial Rosarius's work?
It has a shield generator in it. How the fuck do YOU think it works?

Found Vandire.

Won't he just revive, seeing as he's a Perpetual?

fuckin kek

That's one theory.

How is it a theory? He must be a perpetual, since Vulcan is.

Yes, but if a) Empy hasn't been sucked dry by running Warp shit, b) 10k plus years of psychic sacrifice in his name don't propel him to Godhood, or c) He falls over, sprouts muscle and skin and wakes up after 10k years of psychic suffering that makes Vulkan's time with Curze look like playground scuffle, there is still the question of what happens to the Webway gate Emps is keeping closed?

Presumably because he's anchored to reality by his mortal body - we honestly have very little idea as to what's going on with his soul inside the Warp, all we have are theories.

Horus refers to him as having been already been a "god-in-waiting" when he first went to Molech, that Shadowseer from Throneworld was scared shitless of his power, and Bobby G thinks he's grown more powerful.

He can already do things like create Saints, he has the Legion of the Damned (which is likely much larger than we think), other Warp entities like Imperious or the Sanguinor, he guides the Astronomicon and empowers the Firetide, he shits out Warp Storms sometimes, and is probably planting whispers in the ear of and/or messing with the tarot of millions of people. If some sources are to be believed he works to hold back Chaos and shelter what human souls that he can.

We really don't know just what exactly perpetuals are or how they function yet. While it stands to reason that the Emperor probably is one, it isn't a certainty. What happens after he dies is even less certain. It's highly possible he's unique, since things formed from his power can permanently kill other Perpetuals.

Vandire pls

I dunno, I imagine someone of Emp's caliber could not have his mind shattered by that.

I imagine it'd open up for a second, then he'd seal it again.

The Eldar Empire at its peak was at-least as numerous, if not more, than the current Imperium.

Each individual Eldar has a MUCH LARGER soul than a mere human, and they was even larger before Slaanesh started slowly siphoning them.

All of the biggest souls in the human genepool got clumped together into one big superbeing that's now sitting on life support on the golden throne.

The overwhelming majority of the remaining souls that ARE big either get purged or get loaded up onto black ships and fed to the Emperor to keep the lighthouse on.

For every grimdark world full of insane redemptionists, there's an agri-world full of suburban mooks who pay lip service to the Emperor every Sunday, and imperial Dogma isn't NEARLY as unified as the Echelisiarchy would have you think, so what little unified soul energy the Imperium has isn't even all directed towards the same exact interpretation.

It's still not surprising that the Imperium has Faith-Miracles, but nothing on the scale of the birth of Slaanesh would be REMOTELY feasible.

Slaanesh is formed by a primordial emotion felt by almost every life form in the galaxy, even the trillions strong imperial cult is basically nothing next to that

> there are trillions of ants in the world as opposed to billions of humans why haven't they voted an ant queen into the presidency of Trinidad and Tobago

That's how you sound.

Mon-keigh.

Can someone explain to me why a lot of people think he is an experiment from the Dark Age of Technology? I've never saw anything that would point in that direction

From The Master of Mankind:
>‘So it seems. If you have any last words, I will ensure they reach the Emperor’s ears.’
>Koja Zu’s lip curled. ‘Emperor. How I loathe that title.’
>'He is the ruler of this world and the master of our species. No title is more appropriate.’
>She bared her teeth in an expression too ugly and defiant to be a smile. ‘Have you ever considered just what kind of creature you serve?’
>‘Yes.’ The dark eyes stared on. ‘Have you?’
>‘The “Master of Mankind”.’ She shook her head, feeling the welcome flare of righteousness. ‘He isn’t even human.'
>‘Minister Zu.’ The golden warrior made a warning of her name. One she didn’t heed.
>‘Does He even breathe?’ she demanded. ‘Tell me that, Custodian. Have you ever heard Him breathe? He is a relic left over from the Dark Age. A weapon left out of its box, now running rampant.’
Essentially, it's based on the ravings of a madwoman who is about to be killed by Valdor for her crime of stealing Terra's last ocean. MoM throws a bunch of contradictory information regarding the Emperor at you to keep things "mysterious" - some are dumber and some are more likely than others.

>the Firetide
The what?

>on account of how absolutely terrible the average life of an Imperial citizen is
It literally isn't. The average citizen never sees any xenos or chaos shit. They live their lives doing their jobs, and going about as normal. Sadly, these stories don't seem to make it into the lore too much, because people don't want to read about farmers on an agri world bringing in the harvest.

>It literally isn't.

It is, average Imperials live a life of grinding misery.

Working, living, reproducing, and dying is what people have done through all of history. Life in 40k isn't any more miserable than life now for the average citizen.

Yes it is. It's very specifically terrible.
The majority of Imperial subjects live with no hope or faith.

And you're basing this on what?

The fluff.

The difference being that there's probably very little breaks in the monotony. Can the average Imperial citizen go see a movie on the weekends? Can he save up his money and go on vacation every year? Can he quit his awful job at the manufactorum and try his hand at being a painter, or a teacher?

It's not so much that their lives are unbearably hellish from day to day, it's that they're an unbroken cycle of drudgery and mindless toil.

There's a character in ADB's Night Lords trilogy who was captured and made a slave one a Night Lord ship. He remarks to another character that, although his life in the Imperium was infinitely safer and less terrifying, it was completely static and unchanging. Nothing ever happened that could be considered noteworthy or exciting.

An average imperial citizen (outside of the extremely rich and powerful) sleeps 4 hours a day and works 12+ hour shifts without breaks. The only entertainment is propaganda, there are no books, TV or free time.

>The Emperor is apparently fighting a war of angels and daemons in the warp according to Talons of Horus novel, once brought the dead to life in the timeline, as a legion of ghost marines with a daemon invulnerable save, and brings people back to life as supernatural Living Saints
>Why isn't there an Emperor warp god
8/8 couldn't not give this retardation a (you).

Ah. Thanks user.

You think the beliefs in the Emperor aren't giving him power and keeping him alive and shitting out warp storms? The Emperor is already a Chaos God. You'd think the constant soul sacrifices would have tipped you off.

The new fluff is literally making it more common.

You guys need to remember the setting we're dealing with. The whole capital "P" Point of the Warhammer 40k universe is that it is, and I quote every 40k product ever, "The Grimdark of the 41st millenium there is only War." The entirety of the Imperium is soul-crushing by the very definition of the setting. Stop pretending that the combination of darkages level of comprehension and competancy mixed with a combination industrial revolution work mentality, Renaissance Spain levels of religiosity, and the existential horror of the warp at every turn doesn't equal out to terrible times all round.

How so?

How I understand it the Shamans created the Emperor as a "Great Soul" that than possesed the Body of some Youngborn and "awoke" some years later.

Yes.
Living Saints and the LotD are his Demons.
This is also why Blessing Weapons & Shit makes actually sense and why Spaceships are fucking cathedrals.
The Point most People argue about is, wheter the Presence in the Warp that is the God-Emperor is actually him, if he needs to physically die to ascend and if the old fucker would realize his own divinity and accept it by now.
The real interesting thing would be to ask, if we follow this, what machine spirits actually are.
And if you want to go in full tinfoil hat territory, if a Imperial God of Unbelief exists.

>The difference being that there's probably very little breaks in the monotony. Can the average Imperial citizen go see a movie on the weekends?
Well actually yes.
>Can he quit his awful job at the manufactorum and try his hand at being a painter, or a teacher?
This probably not.

They have though?
The emperor is basically a god on a similiar level to the chaos gods. Instead of cultists he has guardsmen. Instead of lesser demons he has space marines, instead of greater daemons he has kaldor draigo. He basically form primarchs and space marines by rubbing his junk against the warp. And if we believe tge old lore, then big E himself was bought into existence spontaneously by the actions of mortals like the other chaos gods.

Will happen when he kicks the bucket. He is tethered to the throne.

The rest of the thread is false and heresy.

Funny thing, friends of mine are currently running an rpg campaign set in an alternative Horus Heresy (one where Horus did NOT get corrupted at that lodge thanks to the intervention of PC Blood Angels), in which Emprah's working on slowly ascending to godhood while AA are still supposed to believe the bullshit atheist ideology he fed them.

That explanation sounds more awesome than shaman fusing.

A thing to remember about Slaanesh is that the Eldar didn't believe them into existence, but drew up so much raw emotion to form them. Belief in the emperor isn't really that raw, powerful enough of an emotion except if you are like a sister of battle for most people. Even the emperor was wrong about the emotion/faith aspect of the chaos gods.

>as numerous if not more
considering we have an actual size for the eldar empire , aka the eye of terror, humanity's empire is much much bigger
on top of that whenever we do see a pre fall eldar city it just resembles a regular modern day city but prettier and made out of bone
compare that to the amount of humans cramped in an average hive world and i'm not only gonna call bullshit on your "at least as large as the imperium" claim but also on the "just way more psychic potential"

In fact big E as a god could be the god of Order or Oppression.

Except humans supposedly made Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch all by themselves. 3 out of 4 Chaos gods were made by a race that wasn't as psychic as the Eldar.

>All of the biggest souls in the human genepool got clumped together into one big superbeing that's now sitting on life support on the golden throne.

And after that, humans on a single planet made three Chaos gods.

They did. See Tzeentch

Order, deffinetly order, the second accusation is heresy.

Supposedly

If emps is an almost chaos god, why can't psykers beseech him for power to cast miraclesin the same way as chaos sorcerors can beseech their relevant chaos deity?

Also what would a lesser and greater daemon of the emperor look like?

Yes, but humans aren’t there yet.

>"Feel the power of The Emperor!"

Supposedly as in that's what the lore says and that's what I'm going by.

>that's what the lore says

It doesn't.

The Firetide is what happens where the Astronomicon meets Warp rifts and storms, like the Eye of Terror. It's basically like a huge buffer zone between the Immaterium and Material galaxy, made up of pure, violent, psychic power.

Daemons that try to pass through the Firetide are pretty much blinded and burned alive, and are scared shitless of it, those that get caught in it can only scream about "THE LIGHT THE BURNING THE PAIN THE LIGHT THE FIRE".

The worlds caught inside the Firetide are called Radiant Worlds, and are almost all uninhabitable.

The Firetide is also infested by legions of what appear to be flaming angels and other flaming beings that hunt down and kill anything that they find - even Imperial humans. They cannot be reasoned with. Imperious, the Avatar of the Astronomicon and a sort-of reflection of the Emperor, is the only exception that that.

The grimdarkness of the setting is less that it is miserable everywhere all the time, but more that humanity is so vast that any human life is insignificant if things do end up going to shitsville in your corner of the galaxy.

Its not that every planet is shit, its that every planet is individually worthless enough that if it did get daemoned they're fine with just cutting their losses and blowing it, and you up.

>Its not that every planet is shit

It really is.
There may be some exceptions, but the fact is for the vast majority life is terrible and oppressive.

>humans supposedly made Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch all by themselves

Wrong. The three chaos gods were created by the Old Ones and Necrontyr in the War of Heaven. Humans didn't even exist then.

It's a "grim dark" setting. Positive emotions have little to no power.

>, on account of how absolutely terrible the average life of an Imperial citizen is.
Having a shitty life is more likely to make people more religious, not less.

He's already existing on the throne.

Are you implying that there could be another emperor? That's some hot heresy brewing

If the Warp can only sum up things from really strong, base emotions then a Warp God-Emperor or a reflection of the Imperial population in the Warp would probably be a Chaos God of Fear.
They live their whole lives in Fear of the rest of the universe and their superiors and probably don't feel all that safe, if things really are that terrible.

Agri worlds are living in middle-ages serfdom. I don't think many serfs exactly enjoyed being forced to live their entire lives in a single small town, working a single field that has been in the family for generations, producing at least ten times the food their family actually needs, because of taxes, levies, rent, wartime increases of all of those, food to sell so they have money, and feeding the family with what's left. It was a bad time for the common man.
The other worlds of the imperium are no different, forge-worlds employ vast swathes of peasants to work their forges and machines, with an elite being recruited into the cult and the dregs being lobotomised and recycled. Hive worlds employ billions in the most mind-numbing bureaucracy possible, the raw crunching of the numbers of the imperium, with the workers just as overworked and underpayed as the others, except here you'll never see the sky, and you have the daily stress of living in a rougher city than the worst parts of detroit.

No worlds bar shrine worlds are at all pleasant to live in in the imperium if you're not a member of the 0.000001%. You need to remember that the imperium is essentially completely feudalistic, and concepts such as human rights or dignity do not apply.

The beings and creatures of the warp feed on the emotions and thoughts of man they do not exist simply because you believe them to exist that is an imperial lie. Belief dictates what form these creatures take not because they are at the whims of the material realm but because if people believe that the form of a rotting carcass embodies the feeling of despair then plague bearers are going to take the form of a rotting carcass to encourage more people to feel despair and feed Grandfather Nurgle.

The idea that daemons take the form and personality of whatever the people want them to is wrong daemons are smarter than that and are trying to trick you into feeling or at least indulging in the feelings that feed the daemon.

There is also the theory that the belief of what type of powers and form the Emperor takes as a God is too varied across the imperium of mankind as some feral worlds see him as a primordial war god while others see him as a benevolent deity.

>Life in 40k isn't any more miserable than life now for the average citizen.

This is what happens when you let delusional /pol/fags get into 40K.

Plus haven't they been feeding him a thousand powerful psykers a day for him to psychically eat to sustain him? Or was that ret conned out to make the imperium more palletable?

It fits if you don't forget our average includes four billions africans and asians.

no, that's still there, there's just some mention of them getting lobotomized / hypnotized into it first.

>Having a shitty life is more likely to make people more religious, not less.
They do get religious, it's just when their internal despair meter flips they go from "God-Emperor will punish all these people" to "Chaos will do for me what the corpse-god didn't". Boom, chaos cult.

It's a fucking force field generator built into a fancy casing, you triple simpleton nigger.

The specifics of how many and for how long is a bit murky at the moment. We know he needed 1000 to run the Throne for a single day so he could leave it during the Heresy. But how many he needs after being stuck on it, and how long they last with him there is up for debate.

The ones in Master of Mankind were sedated before being put in their coffins, but woke up after being hooked up and as the Throne started on them. Some were in rapture, others screaming in pain and clawing at the windows, some slept, others laughed - it varied. All of it formed a psychic choir though.

>''Hurr do this ascended man breathe''
Her crime was probably lowering the total iq of the species as well.

They did though

huh, didn't know that. Thanks user.

Humans are much less psychically aware than the Eldar were and I believe Emps already has a strong presence in the warp.

Like, you can't exactly spawn two Khornes into existence no matter how many bloody crusades you go upon.

faith in the emperor is strong enough to have him have an army of demons and demon princes(female). its however not quite a basic emotion felt by every single sentient and pre sentient non plant like slanesh or nurgle

Serfs only worked for half the year, the rest was spent going to church, having festivles, and fucking.

Seriously. Think about how the Amish live. You think they had the stress of an office drone?