Pathfinder 2E announced

IT'S HAPPENING

paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkl9?First-Look-at-the-Pathfinder-Playtest

DnD 3.8

>Le epic /pol/ meme

>Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

>Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

>By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.

>Building a Character

>It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

>After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

>As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.

...

>Playing the Game

>We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

>Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

>After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!

>Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!

Monsters and Treasure
>The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.
>First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.
>This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!
>Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.
>Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.

I'm shocked that most of the comments in the announcement are positive rather than butthurt

SEETHING

Also Paul posting is from like 7 years ago.

If it has the level of streamlining of 5e with the stupidly large amount of content that PF has, it could actually go great, imo.

What can I say, I'm a nostalgic.

This is Paizo, half the CRB will be un-revised ranger shit.

Paizo is the Activision of tabletop. Wizards is the EA.

So both are complete shit that pump out the same thing year after year with a different skin? Sounds about right.

>simplifying mechanics and going the 5e route
Grognards on suicide watch.

>communists make a bad new game
people of color me surprised

They literally just copied 5e. This is fucking hilarious.

anyone have the screencaps of people threatening to drop the game if they did this very thing

>paizo
>making anything original
>ever
what did you expect?

>feat chains
Stopped reading there, it's already confirmed they didn't learn shit over the past 10 years.

>they're copying 5e
o i am laffin

And of course in true Pazio style they'll fix some of the things wrongs with 5e and break things that were right with it.

>Unified proficiency bonuses
>Time-unit action economy
>Distinct narrative and mechanical divide between "tactical grid time" and exploration
>Ranger is now a trapper class to oppose Rogues

>Monsters are now defined by a unique ability or two to be bolted on to a level corrected stat block
>Character creation is now Race + Class + Background
>Initiative is now based on skills like Perception

It's not terrible. Seems a bit odd considering the kind of character options and encounters Paizo usually likes to write though.

>It's not terrible.
And yet all the things you posted seem fucking terrible.

This gonna be interesting. A good chunk of the people who went to Pathfinder back in the day (well, most of them) were refugees from 3.5 that wanted a similar system when WotC moved to 4th ed. So picking that same "we are happy with 3.X" and offering them an edition of something that is not what they wanted... Well, let's see how it goes. I guess they still have Starfinder.

Paizo is undoubtedly taking from the Mike Mearls playbook of “complex rules = gatekeeping = sexism”, so any PF fans who argue against the changes are just going to be shouted down while the game tries to be as inclusive and easy to learn as possible. Paizo has gotten exponentially worse in its pandering over the years, so it’s really no surprise that their next step would be to dumb down their game to try and win over D&D fans again (even if it means losing the 3.5 purists in the process).

...

Man, fuck 3aboos, I genuinely hate them more than SJW's and /pol/lacks combined. Anything that makes them suffer is a-okay in my book.

>They still have starfinder
And how's that one working out for them?

That split between combat, exploration, and downtime is what worries me the most. That sounds like the biggest flaw of 4E in my mind: narrative disconnect of combat abilities.

What did they do to earn this hate?

Are you the 3aboo who was so stupid/autistic that he couldn't wrap his head around why a martial could only use their encounter/daily powers so many times per day?

Well, Looks like they put some though into it.
I'm not a fan of systems where every little thing is written down but there are some people who like it that way or even need it.

Not my cup of coffee but I can see why there is a market.

...

Thank god, this will INFURIATE the grogs. Hopefully it kills PF for good.

Exist.

>we want the 5E audience

nuh huh the new babbies belong to WOTC

He says, posting an A. Wyatt Mann comic

That's a really convincing edit

My god, never in my lifetime did I think to see it.

Tell me Veeky Forums will we see a new era of system and edition wars?

Unless Critical Role suddenly gets out of their contract with D&D Beyond then jumps to PF2e or they somehow make a show as popular they're fucked.

By being one of the absolute worse communities that tabletop gaming has ever seen.

Looking at any daily martial vs. caster thread and seeing these morons try to argue is enough to give you a headache with how little they truly understand about their own game while having the gall to state that not only is there no problem but the problem is on everyone else for not "actually playing the game correctly."

Then they go out of their way to shit on games for being less popular but the moment you bring up 5e DESTROYING 3.PF and shit, suddenly popularity isn't the be-all, end-all for how good a game is suddenly.

No one will buy it.
Fuck, I don't even like pathfinder.
I play 3.5 out of sheer nostalgia and love for the fluff.
I run pathfinder for my friends because they want to play it instead of 3.5 because it's "objectively better."
I also run 5e which is just a better system. Shit chargen rules but the game rules themselves are absolutely solid.
Unless they drop fighter BAB to 3/4 and adjust ACs to compensate, rework damage reduction, rework the overpowered spells, stop gimping every interesting fighter option into uselessness, and cut the rules down to something reasonable, I see no reason to pursue any interest in this product.

Except most of them wanted that. They hated 5e for having shit options and boring character building. That's it. No one wants the rules to be complicated for the sake of being complicated.

How many fucking times do you have to be told that "complex rules" themselves aren't gatekeeping? It's intentionally preferring/using those rules because it keeps the normies and roasties out.

Making games intentionally complex and clunky just because "muh pure hobby" is absolutely retarded, too. Complexity for complexity's sake is how we wound up with Cthulutech.

>pathfinder is literally a copy of 3.5
>5e is a good game except for the shitty parts
>taking the good parts of 5e and putting them into 3.5
I know it will be shit because paizo is shit but this isn't a bad idea honestly.

3.5 has basically nothing good worth keeping.

Nothing wrong with feat chains in concept, only in that most of them were complete shit in pathfinder. What, you want weapon specialization to come before weapon focus?

The Mike Mearls reactions seem to say otherwise. Not wanting complex rules apparently makes you a SJW now.

The real 3.5 purists are still playing 3.5. Why the fuck would you actually like pathfinder? They fixed a couple feats and marginally improved the skills system. That's it.

And I say again:

dumb fucking newfag

It's not called Race anymore, it's Ancestry now.
Racist

>why a martial could only use their encounter/daily powers so many times per day?
There is literally no good reason for that.
>Muh narrative convenience
Fuck yourself. Go play FATE if you want that shit.

No, because Paizo is pretty...closed. No one who isn't part of their circle of consumers much cares.

>how little they truly understand about their own game
LMAO as opposed to you fucks who just theorycraft and don't even play it?

>I am amazed at my own response to this. I am so excited! I did not even know I wanted a second edition! :-D
A fantastic quote from the announcement that sums up Paizofags perfectly.

Considering pathfinder managed to become worse than 3.5 years ago, it's very likely this edition will take the good parts of 5e, do them wrong, and slather on the usual thick, jellied layer of paizo incompetence.

All of the things they've mentioned look really, really cool.

Well, in most cases species would be the correct term.

Doesn't seem massively popular, bit it's alright. I'm running a campaign on it right now and having a decent bit of fun. First time GMing so I dunno how much homebrewing you're supposed to do, but it seems alright.

90% of the things they've mentioned are just stolen from other games, from Ancestries to Proficiency.

3.P fanboys are easily the worst part of this entire board. I would rather deal with 40k and lewd shitposting for the rest of my life than deal with 3.Posters for much longer.

5e has actually been rather fun and enjoyable for me and mine. If Paizo does their usual thing of "let's make a heartbreaker and fix some things but break some others of the D&D edition we're copying," they did for 3.5, then I'll personally just rip the neat shit from PF2 and add it to my current 5e games.

Making RPGs more accessible has been mostly good for the community. Normies are so much easier and fun to have actual games with instead of grognard bitching, pseudo-ERP, poor hygiene, and munchkin bullshit.

Is there any point in changing races to Ancestry or is it just more SJW bullshit from Paizo? Seriously, I don't get it.

Like, are humans, lizardfolks and goblins all the same race and we shouldn't diferentiate becaause feelings or something retarded like that? Are humans privileged because of bonus feats? Am I reading too much from this implication?

Wrong. I like all the phb2 classes and you can't stop me. Actually, I like pretty much everything from that game. It makes me happy, and you can't stop me. I own all the splats and play 5e as well. I enjoyed playing a scout/ duskblade character for years. Yeah I understand it was low tier shit. I still enjoyed it. You enjoy your nat20s, and waiting for Mearls to release a book with actual character options.

Will the new edition make everyone so butthurt that people will create a new rulebook to take on the legacy of pathfinder first edition by "fixing" it?

>take a lot of good things from other games
>combine them into a single game
>this is a bad thing

And?

Not wanting *overcomplicated rules.
3.5 has overconplicated and vague rules. 5e has really solidly made idiot proof easy to use rules. Overall I still like 3.5 more but man am I impressed how they fixed action economy, movement, resistances/vulnerabilities, conditions, and the like. That said, his lame straw man virtue signalling made me never want to buy from his company again.

>Go play FATE if you want that shit
FATE literally does the opposite of that.
4E forces a badly thought through narrative on you
FATE has mechanics that force you to consider your narrative

When it's made by Pazio and ends up as shitty as Pathfinder? Yes.

>"How long can we milk the d20 OGL" wars instead of edition wars

But no Paizo product does this.

I mean dumbasses like you also enjoy flapping their hands when they hear loud noises and retard shrieking in their caretakers' ears, but that doesn't make it normal.

>There is literally no good reason for that.
It's called gameplay.

>There is literally no good reason for that.
Why is it that "I'm tired" is good enough to explain why mages can only cast 4 Level 1 spells in one day but apparently isn't enough to explain why the martials wouldn't want to push himself more than a few times per day?

>Like, are humans, lizardfolks and goblins all the same race
As someone with basic understanding of biology
What the fuckin fuck ?

Oh boy, here goes one of them now!

You missed a couple steps there m8
>take a lot of good things from other games
>Change them a bit to how you think they can be even better
>Turns out this had the opposite effect
>combine them into a single game
>Make a couple actual improvements that seem more like an accident than anything intentional
>As time goes on make rulings based off what your out of shape, uncoordinated ass can replicate
>this is a bad thing
Yes when Paizo does it that's what it becomes.

>you start by selecting your ancestry

But why can't I select from the 32 genders, you racist troglodytes!?!

Seems intresting enought o make me want to try it. I still feel like I will continue DMing the first edition, but seems like a fun game overall. I will most likely one-shot it once or twice with some friends.

Could be to integrate more sort of bloodline-races. Like an elf tiefling, or a dwarf half-dragon kind of thing.
That, and separating your race and your upbringing. I remember in 3.5 at least, dwarves got a bonus to noticing things to do with stonework, supposedly due to having a lot of experience with stone. If a dwarf grew up with humans, for example, they wouldn't have that stone affinity.

Biology doesn't really matter in fantasy.

This board has become such a landfill.

If they're just going to get replaced, why bother having shitty feats? Just roll it all into one feat with an actual impact. Cut the bullshit.

Hadn't thought of it in that way. Sounds kind of intresting to be honnest.

>we 5e now
This is actually the smartest thing Paizo has done in a long time. The action economy in particular is really well-done based on what information we have thus far; it's probably the only thing based on this little blurb that sounds like a straight-up improvement over 5e instead of just another way of doing what 5e does.

I'm not sure what the whole "ancestry," bit is, though. Kind of feel like they're shooting themselves in the foot by setting themselves up for so many jokes. Everyone's just going to say "race," anyway.

Honestly, with the new OGL for 5E, Pazio should just go back to producing AP for Dungeons and Dragons. It's pretty much the only thing that they're decent at.

Didn't one of their books have an identical typo to the 3e material they ripped off?

Word, scaling feats are infinitely better. It would also be a huge improvement if base classes only had a few levels, but their capstone allowed their strength to grow no matter their class, allowing for exponential growth.

What would a goblin + lizardman offspring even look like.

Not that I doubt that some degenerate at Patti has fapped to that image.

Just generals, stale memes, and shitposting.

Holy mother of fuck does he really think women are too stupid to handle complicated rules? This is like that one woman who thinks women don't edit wikipedia because it's "not user friendly" despite there being hundreds of megabytes worth or documentation and tutorials on the subject of wiki markup.

Starfinder was trash making the same mistakes as PF, why should we expect any differently from PF2e?

>It's intentionally preferring/using those rules because it keeps the normies and roasties out.
It's because people without functioning brains confuse complexity for depth.

You shouldn't. It's an RPG made by people that have now proven twice that they can't design a good RPG, but rather steal from an existing one and end up with something that technically works but isn't very good. This will be exactly that but for 5E.

No, he doesn't. He said "The same people who like to make games as complex as possible to keep new players out typically do the same things to keep women out". Which, if you spent any time on Veeky Forums at all, you'd know is true. Sperglord grognards DO typically have problems with women and are as openly hostile as they can be to any one who wants to join their game within the confines of their autism.

>I'd have my hobby destroyed by normalfucks because I'm too beta to tell my friends they smell bad and need to take a shower
Great!

>Making RPGs more accessible has been mostly good for the community. Normies are so much easier and fun to have actual games with instead of grognard bitching, pseudo-ERP, poor hygiene, and munchkin bullshit.

Fucking this. If we need gatekeeping for any reason, it's to keep social retards from ruining games with their bad habits.

And tracking a bunch of arbitrary once per day abilities makes for good game play how?
>Muh resource management
I already have a resource to manage as a fighter. It's called my hp. Oh or at least I did until they cheapened healing to the point where hp no longer matters.

I'm just happy all those PF (1e?) loyalists are going to be extremely buttmad thanks to Paizo 'invalidating our entire collection across the decade'.

Please explain how the normalfucks are destroying your hobby in a way that the worst of the TTRPG fandom hasn't already done.