Pathfinder 2e

>pay to playtest
>after the abomination that was PF's playtest
What the fuck is this?

I'm a martial purist, I've never played a full caster, and I think people put way too much weight on the disparity in utility between the two class types.
Yes casters can do cool things, you pick magic if you want to do cool things. If you have a specific gimmick you want to do as a martial there's probably a class you can pick to facilitate that.
Casters might be better at things but they're on a limited system and them being better doesn't invalidate your ability to do them proficiently.
I've never felt useless as a martial and I've never felt unable to participate in out of combat activities when I built my character appropriately to facilitate it.

That's almost certainly because of hard work put in by your GM. The system, RAW, actively works against that.

>implying the average Pathfinder player is old enough to remember that.

>400 pages
Dropped. When will they fuckin learn that there is no need to make such a huge books full of useless shit

You should have dropped it for it just being Pathfinder.

Wait you have to FUCKING BUY THE PLAYTEST BOOK?

AND THEY'RE SELLING IT WITH A FLIP MAT

WHAT THE FUCK HOW DO PEOPLE BUY THIS

LIKE, I'VE SEEN MONEYGRABS, BUT THIS IS SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

WHYYYYYYYYYY

My GM started out playing RAW and I was fine. We're all friends and we've worked together on making the experience better on both ends over the years.
We still play, largely, RAW outside of situational rulings. It's more about the players than the GM in my opinion.

To be honest my GM isn't naturally very good, the whole table has worked with him to get us all happy. And before you ask, he GMs because he really wants to, not because anyone forces him to.

>Wait you have to FUCKING BUY THE PLAYTEST BOOK?

no, they're releasing the PDFs online for free.

>I've never played both options but let me give my useless opinion anyway
Also martials are on a way more limited system unless the GM actively works to boost them up. So how about you not screech and let the people who do have experience with both and know the difference actually weigh in. If you are that set on being bog standard then when it's all said and done, just don't use the extra stuff it's that simple.

Oh okay

BUT THEY'RE STILL SELLING THE FUCKING PLAYTEST BOOKS

THAT'S STILL AN OBVIOUS MONEYGRAB

WHY WOULD YOU SUPPORT THIS COMPANY

>Either pick cool things or play a gimmick character
>Sees absolutely no issue with this
Also notice how you had to build just to do that?

If Starfinder is any indication to the quality of 2e it's going to be a trainwreck.

>The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down.
>AoOs are Fighter-only

>Are you really going to listen to our feedback?
The fact that they had to put that into their FAQ is troubling.

>WHY WOULD YOU SUPPORT THIS COMPANY
Why indeed?

They're not necessarily wrong for hating it if it's shit.
>10th tier spells

Well claims of the designers not listening during the beta is starting to be a running gag with most ttrpg open betas.

Wasn't the original Pathfinder playtest notoriously shitty? Why do this again when they didn't (as far as I know) do it for Starfinder?

AHAHAHAHAHA you can BUY the PLAYTEST in "foil-debossed faux leather" OMFG

This is a new frontier in shilling.

I mean if their releasing free PDFs anyway I don't see the harm in them making money off of it. I've heard that a lot of people really like the 5e playtest fighter but it got vetoed by a more vocal portion of the fan base maybe their scared that their fan base will end up liking the playtest version more and then their fucked.

If is correct then they are probably ripping the D&D5e Opportunity Attack system where by default you only get one when you move out of reach of an attack and then there are various feats / class features that add conditions to that.

>Pathfaggots are notorious for their aversion to any kind of change
Yeah no shit, they're the rabble of 3aboos who clung onto the worst system of all time and screeched autistically when Wizards decided to try to fix its problems.

>>Are you really going to listen to our feedback?
>The fact that they had to put that into their FAQ is troubling.
I take it you weren't around for the first pathfinder playtest then.

Paizo didn't want to hear ANY criticism. It was ignored, deleted, etc. You weren't allowed to critique pathfinder.

What they WANTED was a bunch of feedback that was just a bunch of people saying "I had so much fun! I ignored all the mechanics of the game, basically adlibbed everything and we had tons of fun!"

>Paizo didn't want to hear ANY criticism. It was ignored, deleted, etc. You weren't allowed to critique pathfinder.
>Skreyn makes a roleplaying game

A little bit. It's got proficiency bonuses like 5e. A good thing imo.

Is this a bad thing?

What does "Heroic Storytelling" mean in context of a new edition, are they saying PCs are going to be larger-than-life heroes in this system, unlike 5e where you can still die from a pack of Orcs?

Reposting for discussion

So to summarize from their blog post:
>Unified proficiency bonuses scaling with level
>Time-unit action economy where each character gets 3 TU per turn and a reaction like Unchained
>Distinct narrative and mechanical divide between "tactical grid time" and exploration
>Ranger is now a trapper class to oppose Rogues
>Fighter now has AoO as a class feature
>Spell lists being condensed and 10th level spells
>Monsters are now defined by a unique ability or two to be bolted on to a level corrected stat block
>Character creation is now "Ancestry" + Class + Background which unlocks feat paths to choose later
>Initiative is now based on skills like Perception or Stealth depending
>Magic Items will be adjusted to never be necessary for builds and more quirky

Obviously this is all speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt. Did I miss anything important?

Presumably just that, they're going for 5e with a higher powerlevel.

It depends on who you play with. Wizards have the highest sort of skill ceiling (not skill, but you get what I mean)
They have the most potential to break things, it's just that they don't have the knowledge or inclination then they usually won't.

>they're going for 5e with a higher powerlevel.

>any significant changes to the setting will happen "on screen" so players can participate in them at the table

I was there. That's why I was surprised they mentioned it.

Whats wrong with starfinder, other than I guess ship building being wonky?

Not him but lack of content, but more importantly,. being fucking boring. Every world is like 1g / 1r / 1m, there's nothing exotic about the worlds the way a science fantasy or fiction fan would want to see.

Fucked DCs, gear by level being a huge drag, game is still drowning in unbalanced/trap options, and boring bestiary.

You forgot
>new and exciting ways for casters to be better than martials, because Paizo's devs all have learning disabilities and are incapable of admitting they've ever made mistakes

The math as a whole is wonky, from DCs regarding starship use down to a high quality padlock costing more than a goddamn space suit.

I don't think that's going to be a problem with PF 2.0 considering the setting is still Golarion and the only significant changes are under the hood, so to speak.

Starfinder's failings were, as you said, associated with the content and the presentation of the setting. We aren't going to get that with this.

>Why would you support this

Clearly you're new to the pathfinder threads.

We don't.

Brand identity is important, user.

This is the funniest thing I've seen all year.

They painted themselves into the exact same corner that Wizards did with 3, and unless it's no more divergent from PF than PF was from 3.5 (i.e. not noticably unless you consume so much OGL trash that the most subtle of minutia seems significant,) then PF2 is JUST as doomed from the get-go as 4e was, and for the exact same reasons

>"But it doesn't FEEL like Pathfinder"
>"Ugh, they turned PF into [video game that resembles new edition on the surface.]
or if they're being honest with themselves
>"It's different, and I liked my 3.PF exactly the way it was, just with new material coming out every few months to change the optimization meta. Why'd they have to ruin a good thing in the name of 'innovation?'"

I guess it comes down to how much you're expecting to homebrew. I'm running sort of in my own setting on my own planet so it doesn't really effect me.

Also, a lack of content is to be expected from a new game, especially when comparing it to pathfinder which has a billion supplements.

PF2 is going to crash and burn unless they literally just reprint the PF 1e Core Rulebook and slap a 2 on the end. They built their entire brand on appeasing people who refuse to move on and try new things. It's going to be just like when Nintendo followed up Melee with Brawl, and I am going to be guzzling nerd tears the entire time.

Yeah but remember, the game came out with no MM and no AP
It came out with fucking NOTHING but the CRB.

How long until a new D20 OGL game comes out that conveniently has compatibility with Pathfinder products?

It's fucking space make your own planet up faggot

The difference was that Brawl was actually good.

Will it be called Roadlocator?

Except unlike what happened with 4e, they're taking from 5e which is already a broadly-accepted edition.

Well, yeah. And Brawl tourney players didn't smear jizz and shit in hotel rooms or heckle the players during other games at EVO.

Moving onto something new just because it's new isn't really a good thing
Just look at Age of Empires, II is still alive after 20 years, III died off in less than 5.

Melee was a mistake

implying melee was bad

Mythology got an expansion for Chinese gods not long ago too.

Oh, I agree with you. Sometimes newer isn't always better, and sometimes progress is made in entirely the wrong direction.

It is my sincere hope that this is not one of those times. I don't play PF, I stopped playing it years ago, and I will never play it again because it's a broke-ass game made by dipshits who treat any criticism (constructive or otherwise) as a personal attack. I want PF 2e to succeed, but I know it won't, because it's Paizo.

I homebrewed all my monsters before the monster manual came out (and then homebrewed the rest of them with a few things being borrowed) so I didn't really mind.

That was fucking horrible though

I think they'd be making the right choice if they integrate the better parts of Starfinder into PF2, which it sounds like they'll be doing.

>Themes (Backgrounds?)
>Attribute increases every 5 levels
>Scaled loot, enchantments are more "bonus" than requirement

>Implying it wasn't

>Roadlocator
>Wayseeker
>Trailblazer
>Passmaker
>Portalpiercer
>Routescouter
>Coursecorrecter
>Railroader
>Streetnavigator
>Worldwalker

I can't speak on it myself, I ain't played it, but the fact is they still did it.

>implying it was

I'm not a fan of Backgrounds because they act like Archetypes, and Archetypes have the problem of not really being easily homebrewable. It's not that it's hard to do but that DMs aren't really wont to accept your custom background with custom bonuses. We'll see though.
>scaled loot
This I'm not a fan of.
>enchantments are more bonus than requirement
That's not what I got at all. I got it was more than enchantments would become more interesting than being +4 belts, and they're reducing the importance of the stat bonuses so that you will actually buy headbands of anything but Casting Stat +6.

Skills as Initiative is the absolute fucking worst. I understand that it's all relative in this case, but never once have I seen Initiative work well this way, and I've had many DMs that tried.

good! its always nice to see a franchise refine its lore and sort out the retcons of the lore by reviewing, compiling and expanding.

>Landstalker

Straight Line Saga

Really? I thought it was an interesting idea, but it's one I've never seen used or suggested before. Can you describe some of your bad experiences with it more?

Oh this is going to be great. The rage from the people who swore off wizards cause they ruined D&D trying to be drag them and their money to 5th edition D&D with its serial numbers filed off by the company that "saved" them is going to delicious.

It pigeonholes you into specific skills and often makes already very useful skills all that more "necessary", further limiting character choice. Plus, it just straight up makes you feel shitty and/or like an idiot when you don't have the appropriate skill or a low modifier.

Either just key Initiative off an Dex or Int baseline and be done with it, or simply make it a relative ability check: fuck the skill dependency. I can think of many situations where Wis or Str would be the determining factor in who goes first.

>people are calling this 5.PF
>It's actually 4.PF with window dressing

>Worst system of all time
4e? Is that you boy?

DON'T BULLY 4E SHE TRIES SO HARD

But someone training to react faster in a surprise/crisis is literally how it works in real life. It's not bullshit and random like every RPG makes it.

But that's not Perception. Perception is literally noticing shit.

What? Why?

The *entire point* of Pathfinder was that DnD 3.5e was a shit system but for some reason people liked it, so PF branched off of it while DnD continued forwards while trying to fix the worst parts.

Who's the target audience for "PF, but we've fixed the worst parts?" Why wouldn't all those people just play DnD 5e, or FFG Star Wars, or whatever? What's the plausible positive outcome of this scenario, other than Pathfinder 1.0 dying as a result?

In fantasy heroes rise to the occasion, in real life they sink to their training.

>anthropomorphize a shit system into being a teary eyed girl
>instantly feel bad for it
wtf

"5e has fixed everything wrong with 3.x, and introduced no problems of its own"
No.

Noticing stuff is also based on training, but separate training from initiative irl.

so this is the power of weebshit... Impressive.

Which is why it's a skill on its own, and reaction time is Initiative, based on dexterity, or how fast your body reacts to your brain saying 'do this'.

Alright, but think about this for a second. Do you really think /Paizo/ is the company that will be able to make "5e, but we've fixed 5e's flaws?"

Paizo is very good at making money, I have no doubt they will make money on this playtest.

Nope. But my point is just that on the surface at least, there's nothing wrong with trying to clean up the mess that is PF. It's just that Paizuri will fuck it up.

I find it hard to get upset about retards buying paizoshit.

I'm not upset, it's simple fact. They're well respected for making money in the industry. It'd be like getting mad at LotFP.

They are going to make a lot of sales. The people who will be mad are the people who live and die by their meme hate of 3.x, instead of just not caring.

Honestly I think this is how path5E will be work.

The biggest complaint I hear from the old guard 3e is that for decades upon decades of D&D they brought only the most bland basic levels of D&D into 5E and nothing is getting released. The best way for paizo to spin this is to do what they do best, drop loads of middling quality shit and bloat the system to hell with references to classes no one cares about beyond 10 random dudes who will jizz their pants on hearing that someone remembered a random kit or splat book class and made a feat chain out of it. Cause it'll be the new shiny of an old thing that they really love and they'll drop 120 bucks to get back into the game.

With this ancestry stuff thats rumored they can go even further cause my gut feeling is that ancestry feats/abilities will be the super powers of the game. Sure anyone can take a power attack feat but an Devil molested ancestry can make their swords explode in 1d6 fire damage up to their level/5 + 1 times a day! And they'll have 20 of these in the core book, then release a book that has 30 more. Then every adventure path will have 2 in it. People will get to talk about how awesome the 3 feat chain is without realizing that they already had this shit in original pathfinder only now it might have some of the feat requirements shaved off cause you only get 1 good thing!

>a screeching autismo appears
4E isn't great, but it's BY FAR better than 3e and Pathfinder.

As you'll soon have the opportunity to find out for yourself in Pathfinder 2.0!

Look, there's no target audience or creative impetus behind this decision. None. If you believe that you've way, way overestimated Paizo. They've mined the vein dry, that's all it is. They need to create a new edition so they can sell new rulebooks, which are always what sell the most. That's all this is. I mean, they're selling the *playtest* rulebooks, for crying out loud. Come on.

Ah yes, the dead, unloved system that nearly killed DnD that almost no one likes is better than all the best selling systems that people actually play!

You sure got us, user!