Pathfinder 2.0 Actual Content Edition

Really interesting, actually. The fact spells potentially consume all three actions per turn in combat might better validate martial capabilities, especially with improved crit chance.

>having to do extra math for every hit to see if it's a "crit"
>spells taking longer to cast will be used to justify the same broken spells as 3.x
>"action point" memery even though 5e objectively improved action economy
>reactions as a mainlined mechanic
>starting with more than 15 hp
>Channel of all things getting nerfed
>retarded levels of weapon quality that no one asked for, to replace muh +1s and +2s
>"Society" skill

This is going to be so fucking bad. R.I.P. paizo

>inb4 feats that kills this

I can imagine it now.
>Accelerated Spellcasting
>Spells with a casting time of 2 actions now take 1 actions.

>Improved Accelerated Spellcasting
>Prerequisites: Accelerated Spellcasting, Intelligence 13
>Spells with a casting time of 3 actions now take 2.

>he doesn't know
>Greater Accelerated Spellcasting
>Prerequisites: Improved Accelerated Spellcasting, Intelligence 15
>Spells with a casting time of 3 actions now take 1.

>giving spellcasters feats worth taking
Not in 3.x, not in 5e.

So people in the last thread were saying Pathfinder 2 is to D&D 5e what Pathfinder was to D&D 3.5? Is that hyperbole or accurate, and if so, how so?

Read the first post.

In general, that's incredibly inaccurate because Pathfinder is so close to 3.5 that you can't tell the difference, while Pathfinder 2 appears to be significantly different from 5e.

Pathfinder doesn't really need a new edition, its simulationist enough to be pretty timeless. But I am ready for a new go-to Fantasy game (and especially new Druid Rules, pic related)

But Starfinder plays pretty well and they seem to just "modernize" D20 further with the new edition. So as things stand right now I will probably make the switch if it's even half decent, because I can always go back. 0$ for all the rules for free online isn't really a big investment.

I know the butthurt comes from being potatoes in the first place, but I just don't get it. The game will be free, it will probably not be all that different, if Starfinder is any indication, and they can't take your stuff away. So what is the problem?

It's drama time, people need the attention and the Paizo forums do have their vocal minority of people shouting about how they can't touch their books!!

More akin to unchained with quality of life fixes and heavy alteration to the action economy. While I do think it's akin to 5e in the same way one makes the jump from 3.X to 5e, one makes the jump from PF to PF2, it's trying to do its own thing from what people can tell. Build supremacy seems less prevalent where one wrong choice in feats can invalidate your character, and the new action economy looks alright too. Though because we're in playtest, no telling whether we'll see further shifting towards 5e as we look at and work upon more features.

Unrelated, it looks like GCP is trying to be to Pathfinder what Critical Role is to D&D. Something to consider, though I think it's unlikely they'll pull in the same viewerbase. One could argue the market is ripe for such a group, and I would encourage a group of 'hip young individuals' to advertise themselves to Paizo to try and create an equivalent. For both variety's sake and to potentially further shape 2e via public opinion.

paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lklh?All-About-Actions
>Concentrating on a spell takes one of your 3 actions

>caster tears in 3... 2... 1...

It's almost like there's drawbacks to casters in combat now.

Being serious though, it would really be unfortunate if casters got diminished to being the 'non-combat problem solvers' and martials became the 'in-combat problem solvers'

We OSR now.

Unlikely. But they might cut the raw damage down and make their CC more attractive, like they tried to do in 4E.

Wouldn't count on it, it's possible to critically fail spell saving throws and take double damage.

The more I see and hear about PF2e the more it reminds me of Fantasy Craft, but probably with better editing. Which is great, so long as the 'game mode' stuff isn't a pain in the ass or too obviously breaking the flow of things. I'm looking forward to the playtest.

C-could this actually turn out well?

no, you idiot.

As a game, yes.
As something Veeky Forums likes? That's not even possible.

HMMMMM

REALLY ACTIVATES THE ALMONDS

To be fair it does make sense. Guys like Aasimars are largely human, but just happen to have some divine ancestry in their veins.

It's obviously a politically correct move, but I am attracted to the idea of maybe having the "ancestry" of a warlord clan or sorcerer king or some ignoble line which has gameplay effects but is not an actual "race".
In the end though it's probably just going to be the same thing mechanically and LITERALLY ALL THE BITCHING will be for nothing.

If you encourage them, they will keep coming for more power.

...

I like the idea that it's just broad enough to write in shit like different elf races or human heritages without the little bit of mess Pathfinder can have some times.

I don't trust Paizo itself to balance them well but I enjoy the theory. A lot of people don't give a shit about it but I always try to line up my alternate racials and my race traits with the raw appropriate places.

kek

have some Frazetta ass

I see nothing wrong with this, they aren't actually races, more like a different species

Yeah yeah and then not play the game because they were never interested and pat each other on the back as the company flops and ruin the hobby forever. I get it.
I just think having a race/ancestry/background mix would be a neat way to have a complex character right off the bat.
>race: what you are
>ancestry: where you have come from
>background: who you have chosen to be

Isn't it just an older english word for species?

Maybe in White Colonialist Patriarch HIStory you mean.

That was being facetious, they have no knowledge of anything so the definition of words would shock and offend them.

That might finally give me the 3/8 Human 4/8 Elf, 1/16 Demon, 1/16 Goblin character I always wanted.

This may also be an opportunity for a little more variety in player races without just converting humanoid monsters. Starfinder did that already and its pretty cool to play with mothman, octodad and antdude right out of the book.

It stopped being used like that around I think the 19th century. Species is specifically a biological group that can interbreed continually. Race just means a group connected by a common origin. Human race, white race, Swedish race, South Sweden race, etc.

yes. Species and race were used interchangably, but race sounds more like fantasy and old timey, while species sounds like biology.

>fighter STILL can't do anything but hit hard and get hit hard
>b-but it's perfectly balanced, Wish takes a WHOLE TURN to cast!!

They still called it race in the preview podcast. So maybe Ancestry will just be a broader concept that encompasses degrees of seperation below and above the level implied by the term 'race', like different species on one extreme and "your grand-grand-granddaddy was an elf" or something on the other. In the latter case you could qualify for heritage feats but not really differ from ordinary humans otherwise.

Keep in mind that there's also 'backgrounds', so I doubt they're going so far as to reduce race to a social construct. The cultural side of things is coverered seperately.

>race is a social construct
I identify as a bugbear!

I want 5 feet extra reach.

Here's your spear. Go nuts.

If AoO really becomes Fighter exclusive they need to have an alternative action like "deny disengagement" that everybody else can ready to make an attack that, if successful, prevents/reduces movement away from the current engagement. Else everybody whizzing past each other unmolested ruins tactical gameplay.

I'm totally fine with starting with more HP as long as you gain less over time. I always thought 2e dropping off your HP gains to a tiny fixed amount after I think 9th or 10th level was a good idea.

Is it still going to have that autistic skill point mechanic?

I've heard Starfinder has ridiculous HP bloat, but P2e seems to have a different system so I honestly can't tell if it's going too as well.

Who else just going pick and choose the choice bits and bolt them onto to 5E (assuming it doesn't bork it and there are actual bits to pilfer at all)

>Pathfinder
>Tactical Gameplay
Pick one

How would you feel if anyone except a fighter had to spend an action predicting and preparing for the AoO, but fighters got it as a pure reaction?

That's kinda what I'm suggesting. I think stickiness without tradeoffs would be a good Fighter perk. Other classes could still tank, but only by sacrificing an action.

It would make sense from a realistic standpoint, but the point of AoO's is to prevent shenanigans from a pure design necessity. So I dunno.

Would you really even need to wait? Nothing they're doing sounds particularly revolutionary unless you're a diehard 3.5/Path grog.

This also fits nicely with the theme of the Fighter as the supreme combatant. If you leave yourself vulnerable in any way, the Fighter will always be ready to punish you.

Can you play as a skeleton, though? Why does barely any ttrpg let you?

it'd be too spooky, user. imagine a party of comprised entirely of skeletons

Half man, half skeleton!
My god, the ancestry!

can't steal the pie until its out of the oven

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IU513suJZzY

Frogposter literally has no idea if wish will even be in the game and how it will function as well as the stats of the spell

Funny, I was thinking of doing the reverse.
Use 5e mechanics to fix whatever inevitable stupidity Paizo brings upon this otherwise interesting system by never thinking through the ramifications.

>My god, the ancestry
That's my new catchphrase.

>Skeleton ancestry

>10th level spells in core

More like UltraWish.

>10th level spells in core
More like Greater Wish!

I mean, you CAN, it's just a hot doughy mess

>word is now heavily politically charged
>surprised they're moving away from using it when retaining it gains nothing

Let's be honest here. Nobody gives a single fuck whether or not the character sheet says "ancestry" instead of "race". It literally adds nothing to have "Race: Elf" over "Ancestry: Elf". You lose nothing to change the word, and trying to act offended that they are is stupid.

>but muh slippery slope!

Come back when they remove all stat bonuses tied to what species you pick instead of the fucking word.

I always thought it was odd that D&D didn't just use the word species instead of race to begin with.

Presumably because species don't generally produce fertile offspring, unlike the standard PC races.

To be fair, people weren't fucking pussies back when D&D was first released, nor did people put so much importance on race, even back when blacks were still getting their asses whooped for the crime of vagrant niggatry in the wrong neighborhood.

In any case, these people virtue signalling isn't exactly new or unheard of.

There's some news of the AOO front from the comments on the new blog post. In response to this
>It isn't from only the teaser, but also the podcast. Multiple times now they have said -Fighter- gets an AoO. The -Fighter- has a charge action. It would be very easy for Jason or someone else from Paizo to allay these fears if they are misplaced and set folks (like me) at ease. More importantly they have said, in this very article "Not everyone will have a reaction they can use during combat"
One designer responded
>In Jason's podcast group, the fighter is the one who had a relevant reaction in that situation (Attack of Opportunity), and only the fighter is certain to have it. Without revealing too much, at least one other class can just pick it up for a feat, and everyone else could in theory gain access if they are willing to commit to that style of play (flexibility is key for the new system!). But they might not want to do that if they have a reaction or reactions they like better, since at some point, you'll have enough reactions competing for use that you won't necessarily be prioritizing getting more of them. Whether you have a reaction to take in a given situation will depend on your choices, both in character building (did you choose that reaction ability or the cool action instead?) and in play (did you decide to use a shield, for example?).

Skill points are replaced with Proficiecies, you either are or you aren't. And the bonus for it was smaller iirc.

this sucks

>people weren't fucking pussies back when D&D was first released

Remember when playing D&D meant that you were an evil satanist?

>Frogposter

Are you saying you weren't?

Being a satanist is a religious choice, not a race.

How can one lack such basic reading comprehension?

Politics have changed user, regardless of if you stick your head in the sand and try to pretend that they haven't. Racism is a Big Deal now, and any company smart enough would be wise to just dodge the matter entirely. And as another user said, "Race" in D&D terms has always meant "Species". Changing it is just acknowledging the reality of the situation.

Sure, in old English the two terms were interchangeable. In old English, "gay" meant "happy", too.

I dunno, you tell me.

But was there really such a big fuss about it? It feels like changing it, even if it isn't for that reason, will just kick up a fuss and drum up controversy from both sides...
...
Who will then talk about it, so it keeps being talked about to hopefully sell more copies because there's no such thing as bad publicity. Dammit, manufactured controversy is the worst kind.

That's retarded. The standard races aren't different species as they by default produce fertile offspring. There's also nothing political about different races being different races. If the imputed PCifying motivation is the actual one, all they're going to do is piss off a lot of people and gain nothing. D&D 5E has races and nobody is complaining. But then again PF is already full of trannies and fags, so who knows, maybe market research does show that they need to ship their PDFs with complimentary copies of Das Kapital to keep the pitchforks out of the hands of audience.

You can hardly call it manufactured controversy when people take the bait every single god damned mother fucking time. There is a fucking limit to excusing one particular group's autism, and saying its the business' fault for them getting triggered is way beyond it.

Mate your talking about the company who cannibalize their own employees because the guy in charge of QC/Proofing is functionally retarded.

it's called ancestry you fucking buffoon

So it's basically what everyone has been saying. Each class gets specific ways to use reactions and only fighter gets it by default so far without a feat. The question then is what everyone else gets as their default reaction:

Dodge? Shield Block? Hide? Move to Intercept? Retreat? Ambush? Intimidate? Spell Shield?

>That's retarded. The standard races aren't different species as they by default produce fertile offspring.

Then, in other words...they all have different ancestry?

>all they're going to do is piss off a lot of people and gain nothing
Consider who exactly is getting pissed off by this, and then ask yourself if anyone actually cares if they get pissed off.

More likely, wish is now a 10th level spell, along with miracle, Shapechange, and other gamebreakign spells. You're also much more likely to see any multiclassing preventign you from getting those 10th level spells, sicne it looks like spellcasting is going to be every other level you get a spell level increase starting at second, so you have to have 20 caster levels to get to 10th level spells at all.

I'm much more curious about the 4 types of magic.

>Then, in other words...they all have different ancestry?
You're backtracking. The default PC races are not different species. Read a book. Of course I agree that there can be valid motivation for broadening the scope by going to Ancestry from Race as pointed out here But pandering to pearlclutching lefties will hurt them, as it has generally hurt any product that attempted to do so from Ghostbusters to Star Wars to Marvel Comics (print) to Wolfenstein to Mass Effect etc etc etc.

>10th level spells
Damn it, who let the Paizo team watch Overlord.

>One group's
Takes two to tango, user. Can't have a bunch of internet arguments if one side is screaming at a brick wall.

>Mass Effect began pandering to lefties
Mass Effect is an inherently very progressive franchise and has been from the start, it's literally about strength in diversity and putting our past conflicts aside to build a brighter future. What in Mass Effect's overarching themes or narratives struck you as not being at least left leaning?
That's not a "gotcha!" either, I'm genuinely curious if there's an interpretation of Mass Effect as being Conservative in it's values.

........take it to /pol/ instead.

No such thing as being a brick wall if you're trying to run a business user. You don't respond, that's bad publicity in the making.

There's a difference between left-leaning and pandering. Star Trek was originally leftist as well but in a broadly appealing sense, but the new season is just intolerable about it. /pol/ bogeyman notwithstanding a lot of people with sympathies to the left are getting pissed off about the increasing nuttiness and obnoxiousness of the fringe.